OT votes for US president

[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] How about not spending and borrowing money to do that? And those are temporary jobs. How about economic growth so there are jobs for vets when they do come back? Is the Government now in the business of dictating to businesses to hire people just because? It's not the federal governments job to make sure people find jobs. And there are programs that assist vets already. Democrats (and Republicans) love attaching labels like "children" and "veterans" and "poor and disabled" when trying to pass bills which normally wouldn't pass individually. How did we take care of our poor and vets before Obama? The jobs bill is a sham.DevilMightCry

[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] How about not spending and borrowing money to do that? And those are temporary jobs. How about economic growth so there are jobs for vets when they do come back? Is the Government now in the business of dictating to businesses to hire people just because? It's not the federal governments job to make sure people find jobs. And there are programs that assist vets already. Democrats (and Republicans) love attaching labels like "children" and "veterans" and "poor and disabled" when trying to pass bills which normally wouldn't pass individually. How did we take care of our poor and vets before Obama? The jobs bill is a sham.DevilMightCry

[QUOTE="Vuurk"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]I think a lot of Americans are part of a cycle of expectations: they thought Obama was going to solve everything and now a good percentage of them believe that Romney will do the same....but this time for real!! I really hope that if anyone on this forum is voting they give Obama another chance, given how much inevitable disruption there was to his first term! Can't believe its this close either. biggest_loser

But this was Obama's main campaign when he entered office. He said we needed change and that he could provide. Unfortunately, he has not produced the results needed to merit a second term. You shouldn't stick with one person for fear the other will be worse. We already know what Obama will do. But Romney is not Obama, his plan is different. So we can expect change in some form.

[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] How about not spending and borrowing money to do that? And those are temporary jobs. How about economic growth so there are jobs for vets when they do come back? Is the Government now in the business of dictating to businesses to hire people just because? It's not the federal governments job to make sure people find jobs. And there are programs that assist vets already. Democrats (and Republicans) love attaching labels like "children" and "veterans" and "poor and disabled" when trying to pass bills which normally wouldn't pass individually. How did we take care of our poor and vets before Obama? The jobs bill is a sham.DevilMightCry

[QUOTE="Vuurk"][QUOTE="RushKing"] I am a realist, those are just my beliefs. I want authority to be minimized as much as reasonably possible in this world. I want less government and private sector.RushKing

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

[QUOTE="Vuurk"] Alright, I respect that. I'm quite ideological myself, yet at some point you have to focus on what is possible in reality as opposed to what seems morally acceptable. I understand your argument against the private ownership of land, yet I don't see any way in which it could be implemented without the use of mass force and control which is very authoritarian. Laihendi

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="RushKing"] I believe me and other people can by teaching about social anarchism, starting cooperative businesses and public healthcare. Then we do away with the state and start a dirstribution system controlled by direct democracy.

RushKing

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Democracy is a form of authoritarianism. It is the tyranny of the 51% over the 49%. Wealth/property distribution by democracy would be a disaster. Without an objective police force and court system, there would be no way to enforce anything through any means other than brute force. The only decisions that would be enforced would be the decisions supported by the biggest violent mob. The society would destroy itself.Laihendi

Obama because he's not a sociopathic liar and homophobe.

Aljosa23

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="RushKing"] When I talk about distribution, I mean the goods produced by members. You wouldn't be forced to distribute anything, but if you do decide to help the community, you would receive benefits like free food and shelter, goods in general. You could literaly recieve anything you want produced by the cooperatives for free in reasonable quantity. Anarchy dosen't mean no rules and courts.RushKing

Matt Damon

[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] You're contradicting yourself. If there are laws then there is authority. If the laws are determined democratically, then it is the authority of the majority over the minority (this is why democracy is a form of authoritarianism).Laihendi

Not when its distributed evenly.

[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="Abbeten"] >mad at someone for 'reciting talking points' >recites talking pointsAbbeten

Why do you even quote me, if you don't have anything to add to the conversation?

[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] You're sad. Really.DevilMightCry

Pot calling the kettle black, and you did resort to talking points.

Haha, yeah. They're acting like you put Barry Soetoro or something.MrPraline

That would have been even more amusing.

Or you coud just put "barry".

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="RushKing"] I said I'm for minimizing authority as much as reasonably possible, hierarchical authority can be eliminated without chaos.RushKing

Not when its distributed evenly.

[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="Abbeten"] Mmmmm excellent rebuttaljimkabrhel

Pot calling the kettle black, and you did resort to talking points.

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]How is non-hierarchical authority even possible? And don't say democracy, because we've already established that democracy is rule of the majority over the minority. Authority is someone/something having power over someone/something else. Authority is necessarily hierarchical.Laihendi

Not when its distributed evenly.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="RushKing"]

Not when its distributed evenly.

RushKing

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]And how do you distribute authority evenly? The notion of distributing authority itself implies that there is someone doing the distributing. The person/people who control the distribution of authority then ultimately have authority.Laihendi

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="RushKing"] No it doesn't, it can distributed collectively. Lets say all the votes were collected with a data center. Cooperatives can check if their local results displayed are correct by checking the votes they logged on paper In case there is a error or a evil authoritarian programmer at the data center.RushKing

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] Rebuttal above your post. Read again. You didn't address anything I posted, which is typical of you. Just go straight to childish remarks and memes. Congratulations, you proved yourself to be a jackass. :roll:DevilMightCry

Pot calling the kettle black, and you did resort to talking points.

If you work in a cooperative you don't like you are free leave to join a different one. Freedom of association.

[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

Pot calling the kettle black, and you did resort to talking points.

Abbeten

Seriously guys, Obama? Couldn't you at least vote for Jill Stein? It's not like not voting for Obama in an OT poll will result in Romney getting elected.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] Rebuttal above your post. Read again. You didn't address anything I posted, which is typical of you. Just go straight to childish remarks and memes. Congratulations, you proved yourself to be a jackass. :roll:DevilMightCry

Pot calling the kettle black, and you did resort to talking points.

Well that poll isn't biased at all.............Person0

Why isnt Gaben on this list????

or kony...

Seriously guys, Obama? Couldn't you at least vote for Jill Stein? It's not like not voting for Obama in an OT poll will result in Romney getting elected.

scoots9

[QUOTE="scoots9"]

Seriously guys, Obama? Couldn't you at least vote for Jill Stein? It's not like not voting for Obama in an OT poll will result in Romney getting elected.

chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="scoots9"]

Seriously guys, Obama? Couldn't you at least vote for Jill Stein? It's not like not voting for Obama in an OT poll will result in Romney getting elected.

coolbeans90

Romney probably should have picked Rob Portman as his running mate.

Romney probably should have picked Rob Portman as his running mate.

coolbeans90

besides being a good debate prep partner

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Romney probably should have picked Rob Portman as his running mate.

-Sun_Tzu-

besides being a good debate prep partner

Ohio is quite lovely this time of year.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Romney probably should have picked Rob Portman as his running mate.

coolbeans90

besides being a good debate prep partner

Ohio is quite lovely this time of year.

He's just generic white bread

Susana Martinez would've probably been the best pick

or John Thune if you want to go generic

that man can smile toe to toe with Biden any day of the week

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] What is so great about that guy

besides being a good debate prep partner

-Sun_Tzu-

Ohio is quite lovely this time of year.

He's just generic white bread

Susana Martinez would've probably been the best pick

or John Thune if you want to go generic

that man can smile toe to toe with Biden any day of the week

Eh, I think that the homestate advantage would likely have pulled a point or two - which is, like, absurdly consequential. Generic, but, still their "guy."

Could've gone Martinez and pushed amnesty as part of the plank, like Bushy boy, but it seems like the GOP is content to loudly, but oblviously, go the way of the dinosaur.

At least until it gets its ass handed to them.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Ohio is quite lovely this time of year.

coolbeans90

He's just generic white bread

Susana Martinez would've probably been the best pick

or John Thune if you want to go generic

that man can smile toe to toe with Biden any day of the week

Eh, I think that the homestate advantage would likely have pulled a point or two - which is, like, absurdly consequential. Generic, but, still their "guy."

Could've gone Martinez and pushed amnesty as part of the plank, like Bushy boy, but it seems like the GOP is content to loudly, but oblviously, go the way of the dinosaur.

At least until it gets its ass handed to them.

The homestate advantage doesn't seem to be helping from Ryan, since Wisconsin seems to be tilting more more blue, at least over the last few days.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Ohio is quite lovely this time of year.

coolbeans90

He's just generic white bread

Susana Martinez would've probably been the best pick

or John Thune if you want to go generic

that man can smile toe to toe with Biden any day of the week

Eh, I think that the homestate advantage would likely have pulled a point or two - which is, like, absurdly consequential. Generic, but, still their "guy."

Could've gone Martinez and pushed amnesty as part of the plank, like Bushy boy, but it seems like the GOP is content to loudly, but oblviously, go the way of the dinosaur.

At least until it gets its ass handed to them.

But yeah hopefully the party realizes that they need to address their minority problem. Then hopefully Jeb Bush will become the nominee in 2016 (pending Obamination next week) and balance will be restored to the force and we can all forget about that whole tea bagging thing forever.

The homestate advantage doesn't seem to be helping from Ryan, since Wisconsin seems to be tilting more more blue, at least over the last few days.

jimkabrhel

Ohio is more Republican than Wisconsin, and has more EC votes, so it is a better pick. The fact that it is going Obama does not tell us anything. The fact that it was considered remotely competitive might. If I recall correctly, Obama won it by double-digits last go around. I might have to dig up the FiveThirtyEight post, but I recall something like a one or two point VP homestate advantage.

I feel like Sherrod Brown running for re-election would throw a wrench into that plan though. That might be a tricky dynamic having both of them on the ballot.

But yeah hopefully the party realizes that they need to address their minority problem. Then hopefully Jeb Bush will become the nominee in 2016 (pending Obamination next week) and balance will be restored to the force and we can all forget about that whole tea bagging thing forever.

-Sun_Tzu-

aTrue story. I think the tea bagging dies with the recession. Jeb Bush or Huntsman could work. Latter won't get through primary, though.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

I feel like Sherrod Brown running for re-election would throw a wrench into that plan though. That might be a tricky dynamic having both of them on the ballot.

But yeah hopefully the party realizes that they need to address their minority problem. Then hopefully Jeb Bush will become the nominee in 2016 (pending Obamination next week) and balance will be restored to the force and we can all forget about that whole tea bagging thing forever.

coolbeans90

aTrue story. I think the tea bagging dies with the recession. Jeb Bush or Huntsman could work. Latter won't get through primary, though.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

I feel like Sherrod Brown running for re-election would throw a wrench into that plan though. That might be a tricky dynamic having both of them on the ballot.

But yeah hopefully the party realizes that they need to address their minority problem. Then hopefully Jeb Bush will become the nominee in 2016 (pending Obamination next week) and balance will be restored to the force and we can all forget about that whole tea bagging thing forever.

-Sun_Tzu-

aTrue story. I think the tea bagging dies with the recession. Jeb Bush or Huntsman could work. Latter won't get through primary, though.

If Jeb can avoid the trap of pandering to the religious right and the Tea Party (if it hangs around), I think he would have a good shot at being elected. I've liked everything I've seen from him.