Question to my fellow Muslims.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="paratheos"]Less people believing in bullsh!t is always a good thing. At the very least it would mean less ignorant voters.

"If some members of society want to be ignorant, how does that hurt you?" It hurts me because In a democracy, the beliefs of others affect me indirectly through the policies of the goverment. If most Americans believed in Islam, the goverment would reflect that, and I would be punished as they would punish me in the middle east.paratheos

lol, another thread falls to crusading atheists.

[QUOTE="paratheos"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That could be an excuse to say that anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant. And that's not true. Where do you live? The US has separation of church and state.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="paratheos"]Separation of church and state can be redacted at the whim of the public. Rights aren't some kind of intractable gift from god. They are an agreement between the members of society. They can be changed or removed if the values and beliefs of the citizens change. That's why they are so precarious and precious.paratheos

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

I still say intolerance should shame the individual. And if you are intolerant of someone's faith...as has been displayed in this thread...then yes...you should be ashamed. Actions are another thing entirely.

LJS9502_basic

I respect peoples' right to belief, but I don't have to tolerate their violent beliefs. I do find it intollerable that you don't seem to tolerate moral discussion and seem to confuse ideas with people.

I'm not doing any generalising. That example of flogging or stoning was specifically used by the OP with seeming ignorance as to the inhumanity of violence. My lack of tolerance only extends to me questioning their views and expousing my own - just ike you are.

I've seen enough of your posts to know that you can't support your own arguments, so resort to personal accusations, red herring and inference instead. Shame on you - hypocrite.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="paratheos"]Upholding the constitution over religious beliefs is a value that Americans have, necessarily. Otherwise the America would be totally different. But it is just a value and it can be easily replaced. If you bring a large number of zealous voters who do not share the same values into the equation--POOF--no more separation of church and state.paratheos

Not sure about m...but Harisem is in Pakistan according to him.LJS9502_basic

I'm in UK brah

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not sure about m...but Harisem is in Pakistan according to him.Harisemo

I'm in UK brah

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not sure about m...but Harisem is in Pakistan according to him.Harisemo

I'm in UK brah

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not sure about m...but Harisem is in Pakistan according to him.paratheos

I'm in UK brah

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not sure about m...but Harisem is in Pakistan according to him.paratheos

I'm in UK brah

I don't think so

[QUOTE="paratheos"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

I'm in UK brah

LJS9502_basic

Norway have just passed a law stating that judges and police may wear Islamic hijabs if they want to.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2012/01/norway-set-to-allow-police-and-judges-to-wear-headscarves-and-hijabs

[QUOTE="paratheos"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

I'm in UK brah

Harisemo

I don't think so

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

[QUOTE="paratheos"]Do you think UK will one day be an Islamic country?LJS9502_basic

I don't think so

Sharia courts are increasing rapidly in the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16575349

The whole stoning thing has been blown way out of proportion. First of all, for any punishment to be done including stoning there needs to be FOUR eye witnesses that actually witnessed the act of sex. That is literally impossible to prove making most of it redundant. Also, if a person is to be stoned but they leave the area, the stoning MUST be halted. There is no way a person can be stoned if they choose to walk out of the area, which they can do since they aren't tied down.

Me personally... I don't think anyone should be stoned in the first place. It does seem harsh but people need to remember that different cultures place priority on different things. To some people, honour and dignity is a persons life. In many places, adultery is actually celebrated. Yes I'm looking at many western countries where it is seen as a good thing to have as much sex as possible with the as least commitment as possible.

The whole stoning thing has been blown way out of proportion. First of all, for any punishment to be done including stoning there needs to be FOUR eye witnesses that actually witnessed the act of sex. That is literally impossible to prove making most of it redundant. Also, if a person is to be stoned but they leave the area, the stoning MUST be halted. There is no way a person can be stoned if they choose to walk out of the area, which they can do since they aren't tied down.

Me personally... I don't think anyone should be stoned in the first place. It does seem harsh but people need to remember that different cultures place priority on different things. To some people, honour and dignity is a persons life. In many places, adultery is actually celebrated.

Asim90

The whole stoning thing has been blown way out of proportion. First of all, for any punishment to be done including stoning there needs to be FOUR eye witnesses that actually witnessed the act of sex. That is literally impossible to prove making most of it redundant. Also, if a person is to be stoned but they leave the area, the stoning MUST be halted. There is no way a person can be stoned if they choose to walk out of the area, which they can do since they aren't tied down.

Me personally... I don't think anyone should be stoned in the first place. It does seem harsh but people need to remember that different cultures place priority on different things. To some people, honour and dignity is a persons life. In many places, adultery is actually celebrated. Yes I'm looking at many western countries where it is seen as a good thing to have as much sex as possible with the as least commitment as possible.

Asim90

What is the point of creating such a pointless and consequently misunderstood rule? Why opt for stoning, if the accused can walk away? Why offer such harsh punishment, if only impossible evidence permits it? It all seems like such a waste of a rule.

Are you saying that the Islamic cultural identity is more predisposed towards violent punishment?

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

The whole stoning thing has been blown way out of proportion. First of all, for any punishment to be done including stoning there needs to be FOUR eye witnesses that actually witnessed the act of sex. That is literally impossible to prove making most of it redundant. Also, if a person is to be stoned but they leave the area, the stoning MUST be halted. There is no way a person can be stoned if they choose to walk out of the area, which they can do since they aren't tied down.

Me personally... I don't think anyone should be stoned in the first place. It does seem harsh but people need to remember that different cultures place priority on different things. To some people, honour and dignity is a persons life. In many places, adultery is actually celebrated.

ColdExistence

That's a whole different issue but I did here a scholar who is educated talk about that. A persons circumstances are paramount in Islamic Law. For instance, if a person is stealing but they are in poverty, there can be NO physical punishment done to that person at all, or if it is a time of famine etc.

Context is everything, which most people fail to understand. There are also 7 components that make up the law many of which require a deep understanding and education. There is no one punishment fits all approach. Cutting of limbs can only be done if the person has no reason to commit the crime but does it anyway.

For example, a mafia gangster who is a millionaire but robs an old lady - in which case I agree his hands should be cut off.

It's a very complex issue and the problem with Muslims is that they don't understand their own religion, well the vast majority dont anyway. The majority aren't vocal enough but the loud mouthed retards are too much.

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

The whole stoning thing has been blown way out of proportion. First of all, for any punishment to be done including stoning there needs to be FOUR eye witnesses that actually witnessed the act of sex. That is literally impossible to prove making most of it redundant. Also, if a person is to be stoned but they leave the area, the stoning MUST be halted. There is no way a person can be stoned if they choose to walk out of the area, which they can do since they aren't tied down.

Me personally... I don't think anyone should be stoned in the first place. It does seem harsh but people need to remember that different cultures place priority on different things. To some people, honour and dignity is a persons life. In many places, adultery is actually celebrated. Yes I'm looking at many western countries where it is seen as a good thing to have as much sex as possible with the as least commitment as possible.

RationalAtheist

What is the point of creating such a pointless and consequently misunderstood rule? Why opt for stoning, if the accused can walk away? Why offer such harsh punishment, if only impossible evidence permits it? It all seems like such a waste of a rule.

Are you saying that the Islamic cultural identity is more predisposed towards violent punishment?

To be honest I'm not entirely sure, I'm not an Islamic Scholar as is nobody here so noone will be able to answer your question accurately. But from what I understand, stoning is a last resort and is discouraged, someone already mentioned it actually isn't in the Qur'an. Also, in some muslim countries stoning simply isn't done. In some it is. Culture plays a part like I said.

I'm sure in some places some people actually want be stoned because of the shame they feel. However, the walking away part is definitely accurate. If a person leaves the stoning area must be stopped as that person is seen as surrendering.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure, I'm not an Islamic Scholar as is nobody here so noone will be able to answer your question accurately. But from what I understand, stoning is a last resort and is discouraged, someone already mentioned it actually isn't in the Qur'an. Also, in some muslim countries stoning simply isn't done. In some it is. Culture plays a part like I said.

I'm sure in some places some people actually want be stoned because of the shame they feel. However, the walking away part is definitely accurate. If a person leaves the stoning area must be stopped as that person is seen as surrendering.

Asim90

Stoning is mentioned many times in the Quran for various reasons, but lashing for adultery is from Surah 24:2. Stoning for adultery is mentioned in the Hadith.

I think you have a rosy-tinted view of Sharia stoning. It is a dangerous activity that kills people (as does excessive lashing)!

Ok if anyone is interested in this topic then check out the two videos I'm posting. They're lectures given by one of the most respected and knowledgable scholars who is educated in Islam. This chap knows more than anyone here, so maybe people should give him a listen before making any false statements or listening to potentially false information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EpINIa0bd0 - Women, Shari'ah and Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOhVo4FB4M - The Science of Shari'ah.

That's all I have to say on the matter. I tried to link the above, but glitchspot wouldn't let me.

Ok if anyone is interested in this topic then check out the two videos I'm posting. They're lectures given by one of the most respected and knowledgable scholars who is educated in Islam. This chap knows more than anyone here, so maybe people should give him a listen before making any false statements or listening to potentially false information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EpINIa0bd0 - Women, Shari'ah and Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOhVo4FB4M - The Science of Shari'ah.

That's all I have to say on the matter. I tried to link the above, but glitchspot wouldn't let me.

Asim90

Not all Muslims think like Hamza Yusuf, who said, "If you hate the West, move back to an Islamic country." How do those videos relate to lashing people (or stoning as an alternative), as written in the Quran?

Don't you think you're just trying to ignore debate now?

[QUOTE="paratheos"][QUOTE="Harisemo"]

I'm in UK brah

Harisemo

I don't think so

I don't think so either. Muslims in the UK are annoying and people are taking notice.

Islam is a totalitarian ideology that disguises itself as religion, to enjoy tolerance and freedom in societies Islam has seeked to destroy for centuries. Evolved from a small band of desert raiders led by a bloodthirsty, sexually challenged eccentrist called Muhammad. It is the only "religion" which makes the taboo of manslaughter relative. While all religions say, "thou shouldst not kill" Islam says, "thou shouldst not kill Muslims and innocents" leaving it to the Muslims themselves to decide who is innocent.

It is a backward agressive idology built on racism and religious discrimination, giving rights to people according to their gender and religion. It is the complete opposite of our culture that is built on human rights and the separation of law, state and church, an ideology that tolerates other ideologies only after subduing them. Since the very early years Muslims brought destruction and death to peoples who were unlucky enough to get in the Muslim's way. Historical relations with Europe are almost entirely about Europeans fighting off Muslim agression since the early IXt century right until the XIXth when the final Muslim soldier was kicked out of mainland Europe (from Turkish-occupied Bulgaria). However, Muslims like to keep quiet about their bloody history but never fail to point the fingers of the Crusades, as if they hadn't waged a continuous war against other cultures an all continents wherre Muslims set foot.

The way Muslims lie and deceive others about the nature of their ideology is unparalleled. They also seem to suffer from a collective denial of facts which prevents them from realising the dark side of their religion and doing something about it, like Protestantism did to renew Christianity. Racism, sexism, intolerance and aggression are not unknown to other cultures but only Islam justifies this things by "the will of God". It is probably worse than Fascist as not even Nazis took the streets in happy celebration after killing several thousand civilians in a country with which feeds and supports many Muslim states. Gravely misunderstood and even patronised in Europe, Islam will lead to continent-wide civil wars in about 50-60 years on the parts of the continent where was stupid enough to let this Fascist ideology thrive.

Muslims usually claim that they are not all terrorists, which equals to whitewashing Nazism (the ideology probably closest to Islam) by saying that you can't blame a whole ideology for the crimes of a few Eichmanns. The greatest allies of Islam are political correctness and tolerance, the earlier out of simple ignorance, the latter out of cowardice and fear of conflict. Islam is the enemy of our values like freedom and human rights and therefore a deadly and uncompromising enemy of our civilization as well.paratheos

Not only are your disgusting, bigoted, and moronic ramblings completely FALSE, but even HYPOCRITICAL

paratheos said:"Your brain is broken but I think a predator missile might fix it."

to a muslim

:lol:

Why don't you just forget about some old book and start acting reasonably?

Man I guess this topic proves it; Muslims are officially the new ni###rs. I can't wait til there's a Muslim History Month.

Aren't we risking turning the prophet into something more than he was?

m25105