"France moves closer to banning full Muslim veil"

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_7h0m_

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#51 _7h0m_
Member since 2007 • 873 Posts
[QUOTE="_7h0m_"]profound.Omni-Slash
it should be....it was your rebuttle...:roll:...but I'm going to assume that you thought the Maginot Line was a great achievement and sound wartime strategy.......

you are aware that the whole British colony that is/was America got their ass kicked 10 to 1 by the french for centuries :D frankly except for world war 2, I don't see a tiny winy bit of awesome 1:1 war won by the us... oh wait ww2 wasn't 1:1... ya not that great really.
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#52 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Is it idiotic to outlaw walking into a bank with a ski mask on? I'd say it isn't, and that the same principle applies here.

Because wearing a veil is perfectly comparable to armed robbery. Wait what?

That's obviously not the point I am trying to make. It's illegal to wear a ski mask in a bank because it makes it much easier to identify a bank robber. Apply that logic in this case - by making it illegal to wear the burqa, it becomes much easier to identify the women who are being oppressed.

All the while stomping on centuries of cultural values. Lovely.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#53 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Let's assume that's true - there are still a significant number of women who are being forced in some way to wear the burqa, and those that ARE wearing it voluntarily are providing cover to that oppression.Hewkii
just because some Irishmen may feel pressured into drinking doesn't mean we should ban alcohol.

No we shouldn't, but we're not talking about mere peer pressure in this particular case. These women aren't wearing burqas to "fit in", they are wearing them because they are being coerced into wearing them, against their will.
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Hewkii

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#54 Hewkii
Member since 2006 • 26339 Posts
by making it illegal to wear the burqa, it becomes much easier to identify the women who are being oppressed. -Sun_Tzu-
are you actually suggesting that the burqa is designed to prevent bruises from showing or is there another meaning to this?
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Omni-Slash

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#56 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
you are aware that the whole British colony that is/was America got their ass kicked 10 to 1 by the french for centuries :D frankly except for world war 2, I don't see a tiny winy bit of awesome 1:1 war won by the us... oh wait ww2 wasn't 1:1... ya not that great really. _7h0m_
who's talking about the US?....I'm talking France and Burqa..and the idiocy of taking away human rights.....:?
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#57 AirGuitarist87
Member since 2006 • 9499 Posts
[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"]As much as I dislike the veils, banning them will only throw petrol on the fire.ghoklebutter
I believe you meant to say fuel on the fire. :x But I agree.

Petrol is fuel! :P But then again, some cars can run off vegetable oil. They make your car smell like a chippy, though. What were we talking about? *gets distracted by shiny object*
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#58 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"] Because wearing a veil is perfectly comparable to armed robbery. Wait what?PannicAtack
That's obviously not the point I am trying to make. It's illegal to wear a ski mask in a bank because it makes it much easier to identify a bank robber. Apply that logic in this case - by making it illegal to wear the burqa, it becomes much easier to identify the women who are being oppressed.

All the while stomping on centuries of cultural values. Lovely.

Well, I'd argue that the culture of oppressing women by forcing them to wear this garment isn't very valuable at all.

Again, I don't think that this the perfect policy, but it is the best policy available, and I think that it would be better than the status quo.

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_7h0m_

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#59 _7h0m_
Member since 2007 • 873 Posts

[QUOTE="_7h0m_"] muslims are a race now? man you really are teh expert! you know it's all about tolerating intolerant people with oh, let me generalize like you did, Americans! i'm not french btwOmni-Slash

so you're just misinformed....makes sense.....

"........ ignorant...... typical.... omg" jesus how old are you? anyways, i just wanted to calm you a bit there on your free in air stabbing remark.
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ghoklebutter

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#60 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.Dr_Brocoli
Are you actually serious? :|
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#61 EMOEVOLUTION
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Is it idiotic to outlaw walking into a bank with a ski mask on? I'd say it isn't, and that the same principle applies here.

Because wearing a veil is perfectly comparable to armed robbery. Wait what?

That's obviously not the point I am trying to make. It's illegal to wear a ski mask in a bank because it makes it much easier to identify a bank robber. Apply that logic in this case - by making it illegal to wear the burqa, it becomes much easier to identify the women who are being oppressed.

They' aren't being oppressed.. and telling a culture group how to behave.. is the same as practicing oppression. Completely a double standard. and one of the worst problems with political correctness.
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#62 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
"........ ignorant...... typical.... omg" jesus how old are you? anyways, i just wanted to calm you a bit there on your free in air stabbing remark. _7h0m_
"free in air stabbing remark"?....have you actually made any sense to anyone other than yourself?....
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_7h0m_

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#63 _7h0m_
Member since 2007 • 873 Posts
[QUOTE="_7h0m_"]you are aware that the whole British colony that is/was America got their ass kicked 10 to 1 by the french for centuries :D frankly except for world war 2, I don't see a tiny winy bit of awesome 1:1 war won by the us... oh wait ww2 wasn't 1:1... ya not that great really. Omni-Slash
who's talking about the US?....I'm talking France and Burqa..and the idiocy of taking away human rights.....:?

dissing France on it's military ability relies on who you compare them to (in your case probably your soil), i was just correcting you. so you don't make that mistake again.
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PannicAtack

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#64 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts

Good for France, actually! :) im really happy about that. Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.Dr_Brocoli
Gee! Vile bigoted remarks against an entire population! Isn't ethnocentrism **** fun?

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67gt500

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#65 67gt500
Member since 2003 • 4627 Posts

Seems like an intolerant, totalitarian move to me.

coolbeans90
Why? French people, especially women, travelling abroad to Arab countries would be expected to obey and conform to Islamic standards of dress and public behavior, or face severe 'intolerance' at the hands of their 'totalitarian' regime(s)... why then, should concessions be made for Arabs in France?
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#66 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] by making it illegal to wear the burqa, it becomes much easier to identify the women who are being oppressed. Hewkii
are you actually suggesting that the burqa is designed to prevent bruises from showing or is there another meaning to this?

No. While there may very well be bruises under a woman's burqa, the burqa itself constitutes as oppression, on its own merits. It's very heavy, thus restricting your movement and it completely eliminates your peripheral vision.
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#67 Head_of_games
Member since 2007 • 10859 Posts
[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.ghoklebutter
Are you actually serious? :|

I don't fully agree with Brocoli, but can you name a country where the majority of the population is muslim and things haven't ended up with the Koran being law?
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_7h0m_

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#68 _7h0m_
Member since 2007 • 873 Posts
[QUOTE="_7h0m_"]"........ ignorant...... typical.... omg" jesus how old are you? anyways, i just wanted to calm you a bit there on your free in air stabbing remark. Omni-Slash
"free in air stabbing remark"?....have you actually made any sense to anyone other than yourself?....

is your short term memory so infective that you forgot what you said?
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#69 Dr_Brocoli
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[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.ghoklebutter
Are you actually serious? :|

I wish I wasnt.
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#70 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Seems like an intolerant, totalitarian move to me.

67gt500
Why? French people, especially women, travelling abroad to Arab countries would be expected to obey and conform to Islamic standards of dress and public behavior, or face severe 'intolerance' at the hands of their 'totalitarian' regime(s)... why then, should concessions be made for Arabs in France?

Because France pretends to be a free country.
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#72 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.Head_of_games
Are you actually serious? :|

I don't fully agree with Brocoli, but can you name a country where the majority of the population is muslim and things haven't ended up with the Koran being law?

Syria and Indonesia don't have Sharia. Also, Sharia only applies to Muslims.
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#73 Dr_Brocoli
Member since 2007 • 3724 Posts
[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.Head_of_games
Are you actually serious? :|

I don't fully agree with Brocoli, but can you name a country where the majority of the population is muslim and things haven't ended up with the Koran being law?

You have to look at demographics. The whole point is that itll take awhile, no one will notice.
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#74 Omni-Slash
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[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"][QUOTE="_7h0m_"]"........ ignorant...... typical.... omg" jesus how old are you? anyways, i just wanted to calm you a bit there on your free in air stabbing remark. _7h0m_
"free in air stabbing remark"?....have you actually made any sense to anyone other than yourself?....

is your short term memory so infective that you forgot what you said?

*slaps forehead*....are you really this oblivious?...
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#75 Hewkii
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No. While there may very well be bruises under a woman's burqa, the burqa itself constitutes as oppression, on its own merits. It's very heavy, thus restricting your movement and it completely eliminates your peripheral vision. -Sun_Tzu-
and how exactly would removing it allow one to make it "much easier to identify the women who are being oppressed."
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_7h0m_

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#76 _7h0m_
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[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]Good for France, actually! :) im really happy about that. Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.PannicAtack

Gee! Vile bigoted remarks against an entire population! Isn't ethnocentrism **** fun?

but what if it's true?
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#77 Dr_Brocoli
Member since 2007 • 3724 Posts
[QUOTE="_7h0m_"]dissing France on it's military ability relies on who you compare them to (in your case probably your soil), i was just correcting you. so you don't make that mistake again. Omni-Slash
I was dissing France on it's deserved reputation to surrender quickly.....it was called a joke....something you may not be able to comprehend....and aren't we full of ourselves?...

Deserved Rep to surrender quickly? What makes them that? France has won far more wars/battles than you U.S. for instance. Although-out history France has had an AMAZING military.
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#78 grenadexjumpr
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[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"][QUOTE="_7h0m_"]you are aware that the whole British colony that is/was America got their ass kicked 10 to 1 by the french for centuries :D frankly except for world war 2, I don't see a tiny winy bit of awesome 1:1 war won by the us... oh wait ww2 wasn't 1:1... ya not that great really. _7h0m_
who's talking about the US?....I'm talking France and Burqa..and the idiocy of taking away human rights.....:?

dissing France on it's military ability relies on who you compare them to (in your case probably your soil), i was just correcting you. so you don't make that mistake again.

If I told you I was German would you stop trying to make France sound awesome?

At any rate, if French politics is anything like U.S. politics this will quickly get changed. For about a week here in VA all the banks had signs posted saying you can't even wear hats in the bank. Those signs magically disappeared.

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#79 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"][QUOTE="Head_of_games"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Are you actually serious? :|

I don't fully agree with Brocoli, but can you name a country where the majority of the population is muslim and things haven't ended up with the Koran being law?

You have to look at demographics. The whole point is that itll take awhile, no one will notice.

It's not like it's their goal. :/
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#80 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]Good for France, actually! :) im really happy about that. Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR._7h0m_

Gee! Vile bigoted remarks against an entire population! Isn't ethnocentrism **** fun?

but what if it's true?

What, referring to a culture as if they're rabbits?
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Dr_Brocoli

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#81 Dr_Brocoli
Member since 2007 • 3724 Posts
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Seems like an intolerant, totalitarian move to me.

67gt500
Why? French people, especially women, travelling abroad to Arab countries would be expected to obey and conform to Islamic standards of dress and public behavior, or face severe 'intolerance' at the hands of their 'totalitarian' regime(s)... why then, should concessions be made for Arabs in France?

This too. I believe in fairness, and this is not fair at all. How could people live together if live was not fair?
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_7h0m_

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#83 _7h0m_
Member since 2007 • 873 Posts

[QUOTE="_7h0m_"][QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]*slaps forehead*....are you really this oblivious?...Omni-Slash
[QUOTE="_7h0m_"]dissing France on it's military ability relies on who you compare them to (in your case probably your soil), i was just correcting you. so you don't make that mistake again. Omni-Slash
I was dissing France on it's deserved reputation to surrender quickly.....it was called a joke....something you may not be able to comprehend....and aren't we full of ourselves?...

to some this exact joke is very offensive.

what if America got invaded and needed help from allies, how would you react to be 'joked' about for 50 years? i see it now Europe's gonna be all like ya American **** needed help with china huhuhuhu. now that may not even make sense to you, but I'm out eating either way.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#84 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]No. While there may very well be bruises under a woman's burqa, the burqa itself constitutes as oppression, on its own merits. It's very heavy, thus restricting your movement and it completely eliminates your peripheral vision. Hewkii
and how exactly would removing it allow one to make it "much easier to identify the women who are being oppressed."

Because it provides a disincentive for those who would wear it voluntary, thus when you see a woman wearing a burqa, it's reasonable to assume that they are wearing it against their will, and its illegality makes it that much harder to force women to wear it.
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#85 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
[QUOTE="_7h0m_"]

to some this exact joke is very offensive.

what if America got invaded and needed help from allies, how would you react to be 'joked' about for 50 years? i see it now Europe's gonna be all like ya American **** needed help with china huhuhuhu. now that may not even make sense to you, but I'm out eating either way.

If that joke Offends you...you seriously need to get out and live life a little more......the US is the but of many jokes.....but taking it as a personal offense is rediculous...
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#86 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"] Because wearing a veil is perfectly comparable to armed robbery. Wait what?

That's obviously not the point I am trying to make. It's illegal to wear a ski mask in a bank because it makes it much easier to identify a bank robber. Apply that logic in this case - by making it illegal to wear the burqa, it becomes much easier to identify the women who are being oppressed.

They' aren't being oppressed.. and telling a culture group how to behave.. is the same as practicing oppression. Completely a double standard. and one of the worst problems with political correctness.

How is it a double standard? Just because one does something in the name of "culture" does not necessarily justify their actions.
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#87 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]Good for France, actually! :) im really happy about that. Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.Dr_Brocoli

Gee! Vile bigoted remarks against an entire population! Isn't ethnocentrism **** fun?

Eh, its how the majority of Muslims treat the rest of the world, Im just making life fair.

"The majority of Muslims." That'd be funny if it wasn't such a disgustingly perverse lie.
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ghoklebutter

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#88 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

[QUOTE="Dr_Brocoli"]Good for France, actually! :) im really happy about that. Muslims have a common goal to repopulate in other cultures and countries to assimilate them. That needs to stop. Muslims dont tolerate other religions/cultures so why should other countries tolerate them? Its only FAIR.Dr_Brocoli

Gee! Vile bigoted remarks against an entire population! Isn't ethnocentrism **** fun?

Eh, its how the majority of Muslims treat the rest of the world, Im just making life fair.

Do you have any proof of that? :?
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#89 AirGuitarist87
Member since 2006 • 9499 Posts
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"] It's outlawing an article of clothing.

Well I think that's pretty obvious - that's the entire point.

But how does it not sound completely idiotic?

While I don't agree with banning the burqa nationwide, there are plenty of examples of restrictions on clothing. I know it's illegal in places to wear police clothes (impersonation), all banks and airports restrict headwear such as balaklavas or crash helmets, in England you can't wear something that is purposefully worn to incite offence or violence (I think it's classified as disturbing the peace). I think this is the first case of a complete banning of a piece of clothing though. Personally I would have banned those knitted ponchos, but meh.
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#90 Hewkii
Member since 2006 • 26339 Posts
Because it provides a disincentive for those who would wear it voluntary, thus when you see a woman wearing a burqa, it's reasonable to assume that they are wearing it against their will. -Sun_Tzu-
or, they could be protesting the law and expressing their want to express themselves religiously by wearing it anyway, despite legal concequences. you know, like other people in the past have done.
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#91 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

Wasn't the culture of the Muslims starting to overwhelm the French culture or something..it's their country...so they can preserve their culture...i don't see anything wrong with it..

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#92 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Well I think that's pretty obvious - that's the entire point.

But how does it not sound completely idiotic?

While I don't agree with banning the burqa nationwide, there are plenty of examples of restrictions on clothing. I know it's illegal in places to wear police clothes (impersonation), all banks and airports restrict headwear such as balaklavas or crash helmets, in England you can't wear something that is purposefully worn to incite offence or violence (I think it's classified as disturbing the peace). I think this is the first case of a complete banning of a piece of clothing though. Personally I would have banned those knitted ponchos, but meh.

Those actually have some kind of precedent that isn't going to offend anyone.
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Hewkii

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#93 Hewkii
Member since 2006 • 26339 Posts

Wasn't the culture of the Jews starting to overwhelm the German culture or something..it's their country...so they can preserve their culture...i don't see anything wrong with it..

Xx_Hopeless_xX
this is why it's wrong.
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#94 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Wasn't the culture of the Jews starting to overwhelm the German culture or something..it's their country...so they can preserve their culture...i don't see anything wrong with it..

Hewkii

this is why it's wrong.

I don't see any correlation...also, they aren't threatening genocide or anything..

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#95 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Because it provides a disincentive for those who would wear it voluntary, thus when you see a woman wearing a burqa, it's reasonable to assume that they are wearing it against their will. Hewkii
or, they could be protesting the law and expressing their want to express themselves religiously by wearing it anyway, despite legal concequences. you know, like other people in the past have done.

Yes that too, which exemplifies the imperfections regarding this policy, but it gives these women who are being forced to wear this symbol of female subservience a way out. While it bans women from wearing it voluntarily, at the same time it bans men from forcing women to wear it, and I think that justifies the policy.

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Theokhoth

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#96 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Seems like an intolerant, totalitarian move to me.

67gt500

Why? French people, especially women, travelling abroad to Arab countries would be expected to obey and conform to Islamic standards of dress and public behavior, or face severe 'intolerance' at the hands of their 'totalitarian' regime(s)... why then, should concessions be made for Arabs in France?

Because France is supposedly a Democratic country that respects the rights of individuals, not some ethnocentric child's play.

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Hewkii

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#97 Hewkii
Member since 2006 • 26339 Posts
Yes that too, which exemplifies the imperfections regarding this policy, but it gives these women who are being forced to wear this symbol of female subservience a way out. While it bans women from wearing it voluntarily, at the same time it bans men from forcing women to wear it, and I think that justifies the policy.-Sun_Tzu-
you really think someone who can't just run to the police and say "my husband's abusing me" is going to be just fine after they can't wear some clothing anymore? I mean, damn, there are much more effective ways to oppress people.
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AirGuitarist87

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#98 AirGuitarist87
Member since 2006 • 9499 Posts
Those actually have some kind of precedent that isn't going to offend anyone.PannicAtack
I know a lot of people in my area that are offended by the veils. They say it's because the reason the burqas are worn is to stop men lusting after them. I was talking to a muslim girl in my class at uni and she mentioned that the text of the qur'an that says this can (and has) been interpreted to include a female's voice. Essentially this is saying that 1) men are sex mad monsters who cannot be controlled and 2) women who don't wear the burqas are whores. That's there excuse, anyway. Personally I don't like talking to someone and not be able to gauge their reaction. I don't even like talking on the phone.
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tycoonmike

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#100 tycoonmike
Member since 2005 • 6082 Posts

Oh, for God's sake. Let them wear a Burqa if they want to. It's not like everyone who wears one is a supporter of Al Qaeda.