Religious Question (uh oh)

God gives us free-will. In turn, billions of people get to suffer everyday. We say we care and find it sad, but do we really? As long as we aren't suffering, it's alright. Honestly, that's how I feel. It sort of sickens me, and I can feel my stomach twisting now, but it's the truth. I do find it sad, but I honestly don't do anything about it (not that I can do much, I'm a junior in high school). That aside, I still think God should be able to provide a relief to all these people. Sure, the bad guys get away with doing something bad and causing these problems, but is it not worth it to cease daily suffering?

I'm tired right now, but thanks for posting all your replies. And I don't know that there isn't a God. I highly doubt it, but anything is possible really. I think we will really never truly know until we die.

I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if someone posted this before, but this sums up my feelings of it: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurusdanmam2

That's one of the coolest quotes I've ever seen.

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

If there is an all-powerful God in heaven, why is it not in his power to help out with the big world problems? World hunger being one big one. It seems extremely illogical for an all-powerful being who created the universe to not be able to instantly feed starving people. This is one of the many reasons I say there is no "God" in a religious sense.

1) Don't tell me that starving people "deserve" this, because they don't (I've often been given that as a response, or an excuse, to this question).

danwallacefan

and your assertion of the negation of "they deserve this" is way off-mark. Perhaps you should read Paul's epistle to the Romans sometime.

"The fall of man". Really? Why wasn't I given a chance in the garden? It's like in school when 1 person makes the whole class stay after the bell.

because we don't need god to help our problems.

It's also his plan to kill others beucause humans are too stupidand create too many babies in a day that god needs to kill them to make the world balance.

because we don't need god to help our problems.

It's also his plan to kill others beucause humans are too stupidand create too many babies in a day that god needs to kill them to make the world balance.

Gaming-Planet

:lol:

I thought God loved everyone equally and unconditionally?

Didn't know God was up there saying, "Damn these stupid humans keep breeding. Better throw some tsunami's and tornado's at them. Also, I never really liked Africa. Let's deprive them of food."

@Astrapsody,

We just don't have all the peices of the puzzle, there are things we just don't know. I had all the questions you have which made leave the church I attended and go on a life long search for the "truth" and "God". I searced within and without for answers. Read several books on the subject, The Bible, The Urantia Book (brilliant. much more detailed than the Bible), The Kolbrin Bible (wonderful book, full of wisdom),The Koran....etc. I've always tried to be fair, objective, willing to listen to all view points.What did I find: I put "I" in bold, because it's what I found on my personal search for "truth". You may not come to the same conclusions

1) To be comfortable with your own belief system you have to put effort into the search. Only you can walk that path. And you have to be willing to go where honest, sound research leads you, even if it means abandoning previously held beliefs, I did. You can't totally rely on the Church, Pastor, Parents, ...etc, you have to QUESTION, then search.

2) There is a God, and the best concept of God is that of "Creator". For a minute put aside all the pain and suffering in the world and ask yourself if the things around you (including "you")appear to be the product of intelligent design or not. My answer was yes, no doubt about. I simply couldn't get around it. In my mind there has to be a Creator. Given that, the next question was: Why so much pain and suffering? Why does the earth appear to flawed (killer hurricanes, earth quakes...etc). Why is man capable of great good as well as evil?...etc. But I couldn't go backwards and conclude there is no God because of those things.I went forward and reasoned there must be things I don't understand, as with a child who doesn't understand the wisdom of a decison his parents made. So I searched for more answers and found that right, the earth is not perfect,...... but it's perfect for it's purpose, to be a training ground for humankind. For example, maybe human kind is supposed to work together to fiqure out how to control the weather and natural disasters (don't laugh, Nikola Tesla was doing just that in the early 1900's, look him up).

If you had a son and you wanted him to become a great automobile mechanic you wouldn't just give him perfect cars to work/train on. You would have to give him a flawed one at some point, so he could struggle, have to work at figuring things out, have set backs, learn, gain experience and grow towards being a great mechanic. If God wants humans to grow towards perfection and of their own free-will then there has to be trial and error, pain, suffering..etc. If patience is adesirable quality then we must be put in situations that demand or try our patience. If compassion is desirable then we must have situations that require it.....etc. So Ibelieve that the same wise God that created all this has a wise plan for any/all problems that arise from it, someof which will beresolved beyond this life.

3) The Bible is a great Book, full of knowledge, wisdom...etc.,but theBible is not God.It has been touched by "man", therefore it can't be the percfect 100% word of God. I like what Bill Maur said. "God doesn't write books, men write books, God makes trees".Many have made the Book their god but have no clue how it was even put together. How many books are in it? What original languages it was written in? How men sat down and decided which books to include and which to leave out. How men decided on the divinity of Christ. How men translated and mistranslated it. Were they all inspierd by God?? There are some groups who lived during and shortly after Biblical times who believed that the "God" of the Old testament was actually an imposter, a fallen being acting as God. They believe that angry, vengeful, full of wrath God was not consistent with a God of love, (Gnostics,Essenes, Cathars), look them up. Some of them went to there death rather thna give up those beliefs...What did they know?? What about "The Lost Books of the Bible", what do they say. What does quiet meditation on the subject say to me, from the place where God really is....?

4) This is already too long but I'll say this. I believe God is not only dealing with us, but with a rebellion of spiritual beings in high places. If they have free will then at some point over eternity one of them challenged God's supremecy. Yes, God could have squashed the rebellion immediately, but I believe God's wisdom said "There are other beings watching this who may have doubts about the way of Love also, if I end the rebellion now with my power they will still have doubts, and I will have to deal with this again and again. I will give evil a certain time limit to play out so all can see that Love is the best way......" I may be all wrong, partially right...etc. But I think there is more going on than we can know at this point.

@Astrapsody,

We just don't have all the peices of the puzzle, there are things we just don't know. I had all the questions you have which made leave the church I attended and go on a life long search for the "truth" and "God". I searced within and without for answers. Read several books on the subject, The Bible, The Urantia Book (brilliant. much more detailed than the Bible), The Kolbrin Bible (wonderful book, full of wisdom),The Koran....etc. I've always tried to be fair, objective, willing to listen to all view points.What did I find: I put "I" in bold, because it's what I found on my personal search for "truth". You may not come to the same conclusions

1) To be comfortable with your own belief system you have to put effort into the search. Only you can walk that path. And you have to be willing to go where honest, sound research leads you, even if it means abandoning previously held beliefs, I did. You can't totally rely on the Church, Pastor, Parents, ...etc, you have to QUESTION, then search.

2) There is a God, and the best concept of God is that of "Creator". For a minute put aside all the pain and suffering in the world and ask yourself if the things around you (including "you")appear to be the product of intelligent design or not. My answer was yes, no doubt about. I simply couldn't get around it. In my mind there has to be a Creator. Given that, the next question was: Why so much pain and suffering? Why does the earth appear to flawed (killer hurricanes, earth quakes...etc). Why is man capable of great good as well as evil?...etc. But I couldn't go backwards and conclude there is no God because of those things.I went forward and reasoned there must be things I don't understand, as with a child who doesn't understand the wisdom of a decison his parents made. So I searched for more answers and found that right, the earth is not perfect,...... but it's perfect for it's purpose, to be a training ground for humankind. For example, maybe human kind is supposed to work together to fiqure out how to control the weather and natural disasters (don't laugh, Nikola Tesla was doing just that in the early 1900's, look him up).

If you had a son and you wanted him to become a great automobile mechanic you wouldn't just give him perfect cars to work/train on. You would have to give him a flawed one at some point, so he could struggle, have to work at figuring things out, have set backs, learn, gain experience and grow towards being a great mechanic. If God wants humans to grow towards perfection and of their own free-will then there has to be trial and error, pain, suffering..etc. If patience is adesirable quality then we must be put in situations that demand or try our patience. If compassion is desirable then we must have situations that require it.....etc. So Ibelieve that the same wise God that created all this has a wise plan for any/all problems that arise from it, someof which will beresolved beyond this life.

3) The Bible is a great Book, full of knowledge, wisdom...etc.,but theBible is not God.It has been touched by "man", therefore it can't be the percfect 100% word of God. I like what Bill Maur said. "God doesn't write books, men write books, God makes trees".Many have made the Book their god but have no clue how it was even put together. How many books are in it? What original languages it was written in? How men sat down and decided which books to include and which to leave out. How men decided on the divinity of Christ. How men translated and mistranslated it. Were they all inspierd by God?? There are some groups who lived during and shortly after Biblical times who believed that the "God" of the Old testament was actually an imposter, a fallen being acting as God. They believe that angry, vengeful, full of wrath God was not consistent with a God of love, (Gnostics,Essenes, Cathars), look them up. Some of them went to there death rather thna give up those beliefs...What did they know?? What about "The Lost Books of the Bible", what do they say. What does quiet meditation on the subject say to me, from the place where God really is....?

4) This is already too long but I'll say this. I believe God is not only dealing with us, but with a rebellion of spiritual beings in high places. If they have free will then at some point over eternity one of them challenged God's supremecy. Yes, God could have squashed the rebellion immediately, but I believe God's wisdom said "There are other beings watching this who may have doubts about the way of Love also, if I end the rebellion now with my power they will still have doubts, and I will have to deal with this again and again. I will give evil a certain time limit to play out so all can see that Love is the best way......" I may be all wrong, partially right...etc. But I think there is more going on than we can know at this point.

mont13

I find myself agreeing with you more and more as you make each post, yet I have grown as a person in a near opposite way. A grew up believing religion because I was a little kid (brainwashed in a way, forced to believe something since I was unable to think very logically). I don't think we can fully say, "There is a God or there isn't a God". One can surely be doubtful though. I don't think we should have to come toa conclusion about the origin of life just because there is a gap there. I think we should just accept the fact that we may never know until we die, and I don't think we shouldreplace this gap with some kind of adult Santa Clause.

If there is an all-powerful God in heaven, why is it not in his power to help out with the big world problems? World hunger being one big one. It seems extremely illogical for an all-powerful being who created the universe to not be able to instantly feed starving people. This is one of the many reasons I say there is no "God" in a religious sense.

1) Don't tell me that starving people "deserve" this, because they don't (I've often been given that as a response, or an excuse, to this question).

Astrapsody

Have you ever noticed the person who gets food on their plate whenever they want and they get whatever they want whenever they want often tend to be snobby or just plain jerks? Being an ungrateful jerk often leads to Hell, or eternal suffering. People who aren't given everything they need whenever they need it (or what they want) tend to be more grateful for what they get, and are therefore better people. And if this person who is starving and grateful for whatever morsel of food they can find has never been given the idea of a Christian God, and die this way, a good person without the idea of a God in their head, he/she will certainly find Heaven, and whatever sufferings this person had on Earth is irrelevent to an enternity of happiness and peace. In a way, God is making it easier for the starving child to find Heaven, more so then the snobby one who takes everything for granted. Of course, there are people who are in the middle road, who live a nice life and earn everything they get (but not starving) and accept Christ. Every human has their own obstacles to overcome and find Christ, the starving children just have it in a more direct way.tktomo01

Very strange logic used there. Isn't God a "fair God"?

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

If there is an all-powerful God in heaven, why is it not in his power to help out with the big world problems? World hunger being one big one. It seems extremely illogical for an all-powerful being who created the universe to not be able to instantly feed starving people. This is one of the many reasons I say there is no "God" in a religious sense.

1) Don't tell me that starving people "deserve" this, because they don't (I've often been given that as a response, or an excuse, to this question).

fillini

If God supplies food to these suffering children, how would that interfere with free will? You don't have to have consequences to have free will. I'm pretty sure I remember God helping out many of his "chosen" people in the Bible. Bad people have the free will to hurt innocent people, but why can't God help. Is he not willing? Does he not have the ability?

I find myself agreeing with you more and more as you make each post, yet I have grown as a person in a near opposite way. A grew up believing religion because I was a little kid (brainwashed in a way, forced to believe something since I was unable to think very logically). I don't think we can fully say, "There is a God or there isn't a God". One can surely be doubtful though. I don't think we should have to come toa conclusion about the origin of life just because there is a gap there. I think we should just accept the fact that we may never know until we die, and I don't think we shouldreplace this gap with some kind of adult Santa Clause.

Glad we can find some points of agreement. This happens to be one of my favorite subjects and one of the most important on earth, imo. You say you have grown in a near opposite way. I disagree with that. I think you are on the right track and moving in the right direction. I also grew up in the church (Baptist). My mother wanted us to have some exposure to "God" and religous/spiritual teaching and that was the only way she knew to do it, take us to church. Actually I'm glad she did. I have some serious issues with church and religion but there are much worse places to be as a kid than church. But my parents also taught us to think for ourselves and to ask questions. Questions, and the answers that followed led me away from blind rituallistic "religious practices and closer to spirituality and I believe closer to God.

Can we be sure there is a God. I can be as sure there is a God/Creator as I am sure there is a"creator" of the car I drive. There are systems in that car that make it functional and allow me to drive down the street, have heat/cooling, light,,etc. For the sake of simplicity imagine the company that made my car is one person. I don't know everything about the person that made my car. I don't know what he looks like. I can't tell you how he came to be (ancestry). I don't know how he conceived of the idea for a car...etc. One thing I do know is that he exsists, because my car exsists and it functions in very intelligent ways. It doesn't appear to me that the various raw material the car is made of can come together to form such a complex vehicle without the aid of an intelligent creative force. Another person would think I was crazy if I suggestd that there is no "maker"of my vehicle.

I feel the same about God and see God as more than an "adult Santa Claus. I can't tell you where God came from, what God looks like, or how God conceived of the idea for the human body. But I know the body has systems that work togehter in brilliantly creative ways to produce a functional human being. There is an inherent intelligence in the wokings of the human body as there isin the automobile. I'm as sure God exsists (and is supremely intelligent) as I am that the maker of my car exsists. IMO I would be crazy to think otherwise. Some may find fault with this analysis but it's sufficient for me on the question of God's exsistence.

Along with the above, check out this link, if you haven't already. Scroll down to pg 51, begin at the sentence that starts with "The uncertainties of life......"

http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper3.html Let me know what you think. I think it's beautifully put. most know nothing about this book, but it's DEEP! Don't get "stuck" in any book, but some are helpful in the search for "truith". It certainly was for me.

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

If there is an all-powerful God in heaven, why is it not in his power to help out with the big world problems? World hunger being one big one. It seems extremely illogical for an all-powerful being who created the universe to not be able to instantly feed starving people. This is one of the many reasons I say there is no "God" in a religious sense.

1) Don't tell me that starving people "deserve" this, because they don't (I've often been given that as a response, or an excuse, to this question).

Astrapsody

and your assertion of the negation of "they deserve this" is way off-mark. Perhaps you should read Paul's epistle to the Romans sometime.

"The fall of man". Really? Why wasn't I given a chance in the garden? It's like in school when 1 person makes the whole class stay after the bell.

Seriously, Romans nicely sums up just about everything you need to know about Christianity. You will probably learn a few key facts including:

The doctrine of Sin

The fact that humans are by nature totally depraved