Should drugs be legalized?

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dsmccracken

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#503 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="mingmao3046"] again, this goes against personal responsibility. you have to be responsible for yourself. if you cant understand this then im done. cant argue with ignorant people.mingmao3046

I don't feel very ignorant. I'm certainly not ignorant of the fact that people often aren't very responsible, and using personal responsibility as the basis of an argument ignores the fundamental flaws in human nature, and the realities of the human experience. Are you ignorant of that?

the government isnt there to protect everyone from cradle to grave. its there to establish freedom and security. but when you take away freedoms because some people might abuse them, that is just out of line. im done here. have fun with your ignorance. if you live in america i suggest you leave, as this is supposed to be land of the free. maybe you'll find china more to your liking.

Wow, you love freedom, but you want people who disagree with you to go to China. That's not very free-thinking of you!
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dsmccracken

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#504 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] TheYou seem to be confused. The "fraction of a fraction" term is used to imply a very small portion, not a lieral fraction. If that were the case then I would be correct in saying a fraction of a fraction of marijuana users use it just for recreation and not medicinal reasons. What you still seem to be confused about is that simply because I am disputing one of your unsupported statements (because you still have yet to provide any evidence) does not mean that I may not agree with you on other statements or that I agree with all your statements. You really do have no clue what you're talking about, huh? I certainly do agree that human nature requires restraint and we must, at times, hold others accountable if they wont do so themselves. This doesn't mean, though, that it is reasonable to disallow adults from smoking marijuana any more than it is reasonable to disallow those adults from eating hamburgers or taking aspirin.thegerg

Your confusion is baffling. Your first sentence means that you agree with me, yet here we are three pages later after consistently implying that you don't. Time well spent.

Your second sentence renews your point that I have provided no evidence that a recreational drug is mainly used recreationally. Congratulations? "I agree with you, but please provide evidence that sugar is sweet." Well done, on perfecting the art of being "that guy."

I don't know anything about the dangers of aspirin. Perhaps it should be banned. I don't know why you've raised this twice... perhaps you think I'm a big aspirin defender. Weird. These don't equate in any but the most disconnected of ways. And burgers... perhaps you mean because burgers can be unhealthy? Maybe. But they differ in one fundamental way that ruins any true comparison: burgers give us something we absolutely require (protein), while pot gives us nothing we can't live without.

My first sentence means that I agree with you? Good, I'm glad that you finally recognize that you're confused. My second sentence does not renew the point that you have failed to provide evidence that the majority of recreational drug use is recreational (a point that I have never disagreed with or asked for evidence in support of). My second sentence (" The "fraction of a fraction" term is used to imply a very small portion, not a lieral fraction") simply explains to you the common usage of the term "a fraction of a fraction." I guess this goes back to your confusion that you now recognize. So your arguement is now that simply because we can live without something it should be outlawed? You have yet to provide any other reasoned (albeit unreasonable) explanation as to why marijuana should be outlawed.

I've ignored several mis-typing examples of yours because I knew what you meant, and it's petty to point out things like that. Should have known you're not above that. Obviously I meant first paragraph, not first sentence. How very small of you. Your second paragraph here is weird. You spent 3 pages trying to make me prove a number that was never given, and now you seem to not only grasp that the "fraction" thing was a figure of speech, but are using that newfound understanding to somehow prove it was me that thought it referred to a literal fraction. How very confused of you. Your last paragraph is disingenuous and very confused. I point out that burgers and marijuana are poor comparisons, and you translate this into my saying that all things that are not essential to life should be banned. How very Strawman of you. Actually, the very definition of strawman. Congrats, I'll call the good people at the urban dictionary and have them put a picture of you next to that word def. You shouldn't use the word albeit in a sentence if you can't do so properly. Oops, now I'm small. It's catching!
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dsmccracken

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#505 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] TheYou seem to be confused. The "fraction of a fraction" term is used to imply a very small portion, not a lieral fraction. If that were the case then I would be correct in saying a fraction of a fraction of marijuana users use it just for recreation and not medicinal reasons. What you still seem to be confused about is that simply because I am disputing one of your unsupported statements (because you still have yet to provide any evidence) does not mean that I may not agree with you on other statements or that I agree with all your statements. You really do have no clue what you're talking about, huh? I certainly do agree that human nature requires restraint and we must, at times, hold others accountable if they wont do so themselves. This doesn't mean, though, that it is reasonable to disallow adults from smoking marijuana any more than it is reasonable to disallow those adults from eating hamburgers or taking aspirin.thegerg

Your confusion is baffling. Your first sentence means that you agree with me, yet here we are three pages later after consistently implying that you don't. Time well spent.

Your second sentence renews your point that I have provided no evidence that a recreational drug is mainly used recreationally. Congratulations? "I agree with you, but please provide evidence that sugar is sweet." Well done, on perfecting the art of being "that guy."

I don't know anything about the dangers of aspirin. Perhaps it should be banned. I don't know why you've raised this twice... perhaps you think I'm a big aspirin defender. Weird. These don't equate in any but the most disconnected of ways. And burgers... perhaps you mean because burgers can be unhealthy? Maybe. But they differ in one fundamental way that ruins any true comparison: burgers give us something we absolutely require (protein), while pot gives us nothing we can't live without.

Also, keep in mind that marijuana is a plant. Plants make oxygen, something we can't live without. I guess the difference isn't all that fundamental, huh?

You've seen a leaf continue to produce oxygen after it's been removed, dehydrated and lit on fire? You must live in some kind of paradoxical Xanadu!

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dsmccracken

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#508 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] Also, keep in mind that marijuana is a plant. Plants make oxygen, something we can't live without. I guess the difference isn't all that fundamental, huh?thegerg

You've seen a leaf continue to produce oxygen after it's been removed, dehydrated and lit on fire? You must live in some kind of paradoxical Xanadu!

No, I have not. Have you? That does not change the fact that marijuana plants produce oxygen, which is something we can't live without. Burning marijuana produces water vapor, we can't live without water. Smoking marijuana means inhaling air into ones lungs, which is vital for human life. I guess burgers and weed aren't so different afterall.

You seem to be... what was that word again? Ah yes: confused. How is water that you CAN'T drink equivalent to food that you CAN eat? You have been sadly misinformed: no one is being paid by the word here, and thus there is no benefit to typing fake arguments and nonsensical analogies.
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dsmccracken

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#509 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

I fully understand that "a fraction of a fraction" is a figure of speech. It is a figure of speech that means "a very small amount." I have simply been asking you to provide support for your claim, and you have simply failed to do so. I was simply pointing out that your reasoning for saying burgers and weed are poor comparisons is silly and taking it a step further in order to demonstrate how such reasoning makes no sense.

thegerg

Why would you ask for proof for something that you stipulate? What possible use could it serve? Do you ask people to prove that they drink because they're thirsty? Never assign homework when you can't explain why you need it. While you're working that out, please provide me with statistics that prove that candy is mainly eaten by people who enjoy sweet things. Lord knows the interwebs is filled with studies conducted by scientists who have nothing better to do than to prove the self-evident.

Now I get it, you weren't misconstruing my argument, you were simply warping and twisting it into something that it wasn't in order to EXPOSE it! When you explain it like that, it makes perfect... wait, no. That you think that makes sense, and is not everything that's wrong with debating with children on a video game enthusiast website is HILARIOUS!

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dsmccracken

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#512 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"]I fully understand that "a fraction of a fraction" is a figure of speech. It is a figure of speech that means "a very small amount." I have simply been asking you to provide support for your claim, and you have simply failed to do so. I was simply pointing out that your reasoning for saying burgers and weed are poor comparisons is silly and taking it a step further in order to demonstrate how such reasoning makes no sense.

thegerg

Why would you ask for proof for something that you stipulate? What possible use could it serve? Do you ask people to prove that they drink because they're thirsty? Never assign homework when you can't explain why you need it. While you're working that out, please provide me with statistics that prove that candy is mainly eaten by people who enjoy sweet things. Lord knows the interwebs is filled with studies conducted by scientists who have nothing better to do than to prove the self-evident.

Now I get it, you weren't misconstruing my argument, you were simply warping and twisting it into something that it wasn't in order to EXPOSE it! When you explain it like that, it makes perfect... wait, no. That you think that makes sense, and is not everything that's wrong with debating with children on a video game enthusiast website is HILARIOUS!

You are the one that has stipulated that only "a fraction of a fraction" of users use marijuana for medicinal reasons. I am simply asking if you can support your claim. I have never claimed that I NEED such proof, you seem to be confused.

Then we're agreed. You stipulate that a recreational drug is mainly used recreationally, and I refuse to do homework some internet dude assigns me in order to prove something he actually agrees with, not to accomplish anything other than some sad idea that this makes him clever. So glad we're agreed on that.
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dsmccracken

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#513 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="thegerg"] No, I have not. Have you? That does not change the fact that marijuana plants produce oxygen, which is something we can't live without. Burning marijuana produces water vapor, we can't live without water. Smoking marijuana means inhaling air into ones lungs, which is vital for human life. I guess burgers and weed aren't so different afterall.thegerg

You seem to be... what was that word again? Ah yes: confused. How is water that you CAN'T drink equivalent to food that you CAN eat? You have been sadly misinformed: no one is being paid by the word here, and thus there is no benefit to typing fake arguments and nonsensical analogies.

I have not claimed that water you can't drink is equivalent to food you can eat.

So they're not equivalent, and thus make a poor comparison. So glad that we're agreed on that. You're growing less confused by the minute. I was tempted to type "your growing" instead of "you're growing" just to see if you could resist the juvenile temptation to point out a typo: now THAT would be real progress!
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dsmccracken

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#516 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="thegerg"] You are the one that has stipulated that only "a fraction of a fraction" of users use marijuana for medicinal reasons. I am simply asking if you can support your claim. I have never claimed that I NEED such proof, you seem to be confused. thegerg

Then we're agreed. You stipulate that a recreational drug is mainly used recreationally, and I refuse to do homework some internet dude assigns me in order to prove something he actually agrees with, not to accomplish anything other than some sad idea that this makes him clever. So glad we're agreed on that.

Of course a recreational drug is used recreationally. That doesn't mean that marijuana is always a recreational drug, nor does it mean that you have supported your "fraction of a fraction" claim.

Why would I need to? You've stipulated 1) it's a figure of speech meaning "a small percentage of the whole" and that 2) you agree. So you're asking me to support a claim... a claim that you also claim. Do you actually expect me to do this? Is this the best use you can come up with for your time? If you want to be annoying, take the "you must be confused" route again. Don't waste people's time assigning homework to prove the self-evident, and ESPECIALLY when you already admit you both have the answer already and agree with your opponent. It's absurd.
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dsmccracken

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#517 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="thegerg"] I have not claimed that water you can't drink is equivalent to food you can eat.

thegerg

So they're not equivalent, and thus make a poor comparison. So glad that we're agreed on that. You're growing less confused by the minute. I was tempted to type "your growing" instead of "you're growing" just to see if you could resist the juvenile temptation to point out a typo: now THAT would be real progress!

Simply because X and Y aren't equivalent does not mean that they can't be effectively compared, you seem to be confused here.

You seem to be deeply befuddled here. The problem is that you take it for granted that you have effectively done said comparison. You have not.

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dsmccracken

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#518 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
thegerg school of debate: ask people to prove things to be true that you also believe to be true. Interesting.
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dsmccracken

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#521 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] Simply because X and Y aren't equivalent does not mean that they can't be effectively compared, you seem to be confused here. thegerg

You seem to be deeply befuddled here. The problem is that you take it for granted that you have effectively done said comparison. You have not.

Actually, I have.

If only saying so made it true.
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dsmccracken

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#522 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="thegerg"] Of course a recreational drug is used recreationally. That doesn't mean that marijuana is always a recreational drug, nor does it mean that you have supported your "fraction of a fraction" claim.

thegerg

Why would I need to? You've stipulated 1) it's a figure of speech meaning "a small percentage of the whole" and that 2) you agree. So you're asking me to support a claim... a claim that you also claim. Do you actually expect me to do this? Is this the best use you can come up with for your time? If you want to be annoying, take the "you must be confused" route again. Don't waste people's time assigning homework to prove the self-evident, and ESPECIALLY when you already admit you both have the answer already and agree with your opponent. It's absurd.

You seem to be confused. I have not stipulated that I agree that a "fraction of a fraction" (a very small portion) of marijuana users do so strictly for recreation. I am simply (still) asking you to support your claim that that is the case.

Ah. So you think that a large percentage of those who use marijuana do so for medical reasons. Is that your position?

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Sedin44

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#523 Sedin44
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts

Ah. So you think that a large percentage of those who use marijuana do so for medical reasons. Is that your position?

Does using it to help sleep, relax, muscle relaxant, heighten appetite, and cure headaches/hangovers count? If so yes I think most people use it for medical reasons haha.
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dsmccracken

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#524 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

Does using it to help sleep, relax, muscle relaxant, heighten appetite, and cure headaches/hangovers count? If so yes I think most people use it for medical reasons haha.Sedin44

I doubt he would accept those kinds of undocumented instances, or he wouldn't be asking for stats.

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Sedin44

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#526 Sedin44
Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="Sedin44"]

Does using it to help sleep, relax, muscle relaxant, heighten appetite, and cure headaches/hangovers count? If so yes I think most people use it for medical reasons haha.

I doubt he would accept those kinds of undocumented instances, or he wouldn't be asking for stats.

Haha yea I am just saying its easy to play off marijuana as being for medical purposes but at the end of the day people just like to get high. I think it def has its legit benefits but if it did some of these things like help you fall alseep but didn't make you high as balls, I think there would be far fewer people caring.
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omus101

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#527 omus101
Member since 2006 • 1392 Posts

So much confusion in this thread

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dsmccracken

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#528 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] You seem to be confused. I have not stipulated that I agree that a "fraction of a fraction" (a very small portion) of marijuana users do so strictly for recreation. I am simply (still) asking you to support your claim that that is the case.thegerg

Ah. So you think that a large percentage of those who use marijuana do so for medical reasons. Is that your position?

No, that is not my position. I am simply asking if you can support your claim.

You want evidence presented, yet you don't even present your own position. Nope, I'm not jumping through your hoop, bro. I believe we both know the same thing, but you're just trying to be aggravating by asking me to prove the self-evident. Prove me wrong, tell me your position. Why so evasive? No need to be ashamed of your own position!

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gc88

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#529 gc88
Member since 2009 • 713 Posts

of course drugs should be legalized. prohibition never worked and never will. people should be able to choose what they put into their bodies good or bad. making something illegal doesn't make people not do it. it creates criminals and drug dealers.

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#530 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
Anyone who wants to stop others from having a little fun on their own should seriously reevaluate their life.
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dsmccracken

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#531 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

of course drugs should be legalized. prohibition never worked and never will. people should be able to choose what they put into their bodies good or bad. making something illegal doesn't make people not do it. it creates criminals and drug dealers.

gc88
We prohibit things all the time. To say people commit crimes despite them being prohibited, so we shouldn't prohibit is to embrace absolute chaos. Good luck with that. BTW, the embracing of legalized gambling (as a for instance) has caused THAT vice to Boom with a capital B. So the idea that prohibition doesn't curtail whatever activity isn't necessarily true. Also, making something legal by definition will make people engaged in said activity no longer criminals, but there will still be drug dealers. To think that this drug, when legal, can be circulated without a now legal dealer is head-scratching.
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dsmccracken

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#532 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
Anyone who wants to stop others from having a little fun on their own should seriously reevaluate their life. SilverChimera
If that is what you hear, then you're not really listening. Reading comp. FTW
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#534 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] No, that is not my position. I am simply asking if you can support your claim.thegerg

You want evidence presented, yet you don't even present your own position. Nope, I'm not jumping through your hoop, bro. I believe we both know the same thing, but you're just trying to be aggravating by asking me to prove the self-evident. Prove me wrong, tell me your position. Why so evasive? No need to be ashamed of your own position!

I've already told you my position. My position is that I believe marijuana should be legally available for adults to use. That has nothing to do with the fact that you are still unable to support your claim.

We all have many positions on a variety of topics. I think that you know what I mean, that's very disingenuous of you: make it clear what your position is on whether a "very small" portion of users are medical marijuana patients. Your evasiveness is quite frankly baffling. You must be very confused indeed.
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GreekGameManiac

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#535 GreekGameManiac
Member since 2010 • 6439 Posts

Oh yes,definitely!

Alcohol and cigarettes are legal.

So why not?

And then,allow teenagers to take all of the above substances.

:3

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#536 TAMKFan
Member since 2004 • 33353 Posts
No. Drugs like heroin and cocaine are very dangerous and should not be legalized. I mean, some people already do these drugs, but legalizing them would only cause a lot more people to do them by making them accessible.
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dsmccracken

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#538 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="thegerg"] I've already told you my position. My position is that I believe marijuana should be legally available for adults to use. That has nothing to do with the fact that you are still unable to support your claim.thegerg

We all have many positions on a variety of topics. I think that you know what I mean, that's very disingenuous of you: make it clear what your position is on whether a "very small" portion of users are medical marijuana patients. Your evasiveness is quite frankly baffling. You must be very confused indeed.

My position is that I am interested to see any evidence to support the claim that only a "fraction of a fraction" of users use marijuana for medicinal purposes. My feeling is that more than "a fraction of a fraction" do so, but I have nothing to back up that feeling, so I have not made a claim about that figure as if it were fact as you have.

Wow, did it really need to take 3 or whatever pages for you to say that you have a feeling? Brutal. You don't need a figure to have a feeling, we aren't all walking stat encyclopedias. Did it really need to take all this for you to state what you think? Ok, so now we have progress. One last thing. What in your opinion, as a percentage of the whole, would it take for it (it being medical marijuana users) to be a significant proportion? 5%? 10%? 40%? Or a range, like 15-25% Forget "fraction of a fraction", that is so vague, I mean everything is a fraction of something else, 90% is a fraction of something bigger, but we both know that's not the context here. So what constitutes a significant %, in your opinion?
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dsmccracken

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#540 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="thegerg"] My position is that I am interested to see any evidence to support the claim that only a "fraction of a fraction" of users use marijuana for medicinal purposes. My feeling is that more than "a fraction of a fraction" do so, but I have nothing to back up that feeling, so I have not made a claim about that figure as if it were fact as you have.

thegerg

Wow, did it really need to take 3 or whatever pages for you to say that you have a feeling? Brutal. You don't need a figure to have a feeling, we aren't all walking stat encyclopedias. Did it really need to take all this for you to state what you think? Ok, so now we have progress. One last thing. What in your opinion, as a percentage of the whole, would it take for it (it being medical marijuana users) to be a significant proportion? 5%? 10%? 40%? Or a range, like 15-25% Forget "fraction of a fraction", that is so vague, I mean everything is a fraction of something else, 90% is a fraction of something bigger, but we both know that's not the context here. So what constitutes a significant %, in your opinion?

No, it did not take 3 pages for me to state I have a feeling, I did so pages ago. I'd say that something like 15-20? is a significant proportion. Let's not forget, though, that simply because some users may use recreationaly does not mean that they also do not use for medicinal purposes or do not see medicinal benefit from even recreational use. Even if not one person used marijuana for medicinal reasons, there is no reason to disallow adults to use it in a responsible and safe manner. Now that we're moving away from the "fraction of a fraction" figure (one that you provided, but now discard for it is so vague), how would you define a fraction of a fraction?

"Fraction of a fraction" is not a figure. It is a figure of speech. I think you even said as much. What would you say a fraction of a fraction is? 12? The square root of blue? It is obviously not an actual figure. I haven't discarded it, it said what I wanted it to say (that is, quite small). It does not, however, serve any purpose once we're talking about actual hard numbers. Numbers I've found indicate that medical marijuana users constitute about 3% of total regular smokers. Less if you are talking about infrequent users and far less than those who have tried but don't regularly use pot. I discard those last two groups as irrelevant. I would guess, and you seem to also believe, that medical marijuana users are not the only users who are (or believe that they are) using for medicinal purposes, but there are no hard numbers that I could find (try your luck if you like) that prove that one way or the other, and are thus pure conjecture. So, based on actual numbers, 3%, which would be far below your threshold to qualify as a significant proportion.

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#541 Freak2121GTAF
Member since 2008 • 697 Posts

The less harmful ones, yes.

Ones like Krokodil (don't search it up unless you're prepared to see some very disturbing images, I warned you), god no.