Should drugs be legalized?

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="Diophage"]Where does drinking and driving or going to a bar, tie in with murder and rape? toast_burner

People get murdered and rape already cause of drug use. It is all relative. The bar and alcohol thing as symbolic to a current problem where something legal has a self regulatory limit where it becomes illegal. Most people cannot control themselves. They need enforcers to do that. That includes the felony factor. It helps keeps a few idiots away from doing what they already know they will over indulge. Same with drugs! If all of a sudden enforcers are removed then people will be more inclined to try something out for the lulz. You know.. duuuude.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] Listen dude. Holy **** c'mere. You know a substantial amount of murders are drug related right? Not talking about people fighting over drug money per say, but that is a factor. Mostly that many drugs are mixed and laced these days to give a better high because the old **** don't work so good anymore. Now I believe alcohol should also be mostly illegal. But if there is ANYTHING that OT afvocates is that stupid people are dangerous. But stupid people get caught doing stupid things easily enough. Stupid people buying drugs from an informant or smoking it up in their car a block down from a dealer, get caught. So what happens when stupid people can legally get toxins that can make smart people stupid? You get sheer dumbass.

People get murdered and rape already cause of drug use. It is all relative. The bar and alcohol thing as symbolic to a current problem where something legal has a self regulatory limit where it becomes illegal. Most people cannot control themselves. They need enforcers to do that. That includes the felony factor. It helps keeps a few idiots away from doing what they already know they will over indulge. Same with drugs! If all of a sudden enforcers are removed then people will be more inclined to try something out for the lulz. You know.. duuuude.CreasianDevaili

I don't think the price will go up...

Your argument seems to hinge on the false premise that legalizing these drugs will increase their sustained use.thegerg

I don't think the price will go up...ROFLCOPTER603

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"] I don't think the price will go up...CreasianDevaili

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"] I don't think the price will go up...toast_burner

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"] I don't think the price will go up...toast_burner

Exactly. Therecan literallybe dozens of middle men involved in getting just a gram of weed from the grower to whoever intends to use it. Also, if drugs were easier to get (because dealers wouldn't have to hide), the price would go down due to capitalism because people would just go to where it's cheapest. Most people don't know a ton of places they can safely get drugs, so they go to wherever it's safest, which is not necessarily cheapest.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] I will simply ask that you explain why. CreasianDevaili

Cigarettes (and even though you didn't mention it, alcohol)are incredibly cheap. I don't understand your point.

[QUOTE="thegerg"] Your argument seems to hinge on the false premise that legalizing these drugs will increase their sustained use.CreasianDevaili

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] I will simply ask that you explain why. CreasianDevaili

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="thegerg"] Your argument seems to hinge on the false premise that legalizing these drugs will increase their sustained use.Diophage

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Drugs when sold illegally are passed around so much that it greatly effects the price. When legal it would be cutting out some of the middle men so the price would be more set and sound.thegerg

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="thegerg"] Your argument seems to hinge on the false premise that legalizing these drugs will increase their sustained use.thegerg

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] Good. Actually was checking out Medical Marijuana and how heavily they went at it on license, fees, and taxes. The ciggerette was more so on cost to produce vs cost of the sell, along with how heavily it is taxed. thegerg

More to the point I was doubting that 0.7 grams of weed will cost the same as 0.7 grams of tobacco. Especially if the goverment legalizes it to make money off it. Which many of you advocate. CreasianDevaili

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="thegerg"] No, I am not guilty of presenting an argument that hinges on the false premise that legalizing these drugs will increase their sustained use. You seem to be very confused. Anyway, here's a few links that will hopefully help you to understand your error in reasoning: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html http://norml.org/marijuana/personal/item/marijuana-decriminalization-its-impact-on-use-2 http://txfx.net/2009/04/08/drug-use-in-portugal-plunges-after-decriminalization/thegerg

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="thegerg"] At no point have I said that that model will work everywhere, I am simply helping you to understand that your claims that decriminalization will lead to increased use, rape, murder, etc. is baseless. You're right that the US has more cocaine use than Portugal has weed use, what's your point? Those numbers neither hinder my port nor aid yours. thegerg

You seem to be very confused. At no point "state boldly that [decriminalization] won't [lead to increases]". I have simply stated that ther is no evidence that it will. You have stated, though, that decriminalization will cause an increase in abuse and other problems ( "If all of a sudden enforcers are removed then people will be more inclined to try something out for the lulz", " They will be the ones who go all out and get addicted. They will also be the ones who have a few more steps of stupid to act out before being caught.", "Well dealers for sure will steal from non dealers and non users. That is a fact.", " more people will have the issue. ", etc. ) .

You are now posting "As such, decriminalization could lead to the increases that I said." As evidenced, you were not talking about what COULD happen, but what WILL happen. You're the only one making claims about what WILL happen, not I. I have not countered my own argument at all. I never claimed that such a model will work everywhere.

"So If it does not lower it, then it would stay the same or possibly rise?" Yes, it would. But, neither of us know whether it would decrease, increase, or remain steady. Studies suggest, though, that decriminalization causes a reduction.

[ Also.. dealers do steal from non users. That kind of is a fact. CreasianDevaili

I love when people say things are facts when they're not, like right here for instance.

Absolutely!

-Kills the power and money of cartels profiting off ruining the lives of people - less violence, drug wars, drug-related killings in Mexico

-Legalizing drugs won't make everyone start wanting to use them - increasing education and awareness is more important than telling what a person can or cannot do to his or her body. Some do drugs as a means of rebellion just because they are illegal

-Stops the unncessary waste from the DEA and the War on Drugs - less tax dollars wasted. Why should I pay the Federal Government so they can interfere with the lives of others?

-Alcohol Prohibition shows that if people want to use drugs then they will find some way to use drugs - which allows criminals to profit.The illegalization drugs is a short-sighted way to deal with the problem - human nature causes people to do drugs, not the fact that they are legal.

-Can be taxed - an additional source of revenue for the United States

-Purer forms of drugs - less dangerous and less harmful to people (Home-made whisky during Prohibition was known to cause deaths)

It should at least be up to the states. The Federal Government should get out of our business.

OK, so dealers steal from users. What's your point? If these drugs are decriminalized and regulated then such an issue would go away because users could purchase their drugs from a regulated source and not a shady dealer. I'm not sure what your first language is, but you seem to be having trouble with English. This jumble of words " Didn't see the words "steal more!". Another thing is that the country you listed also offered free rehabilitation. They is a very key aspect of what they did. So the enforcers removed still works. Jail or rehabilitation is an enforcer against the problem. Which case if they didn't offer rehabilitation at all there might have been a different outcome." really makes no sense and doesn't come to a point. Are you advocating that addiction treatment be increased? OK, I have never said that it shouldn't be. i never accused you of speaking out of context, simply being unable to support your claims.thegerg

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][ Also.. dealers do steal from non users. That kind of is a fact. z4twenny

I love when people say things are facts when they're not, like right here for instance.

[QUOTE="z4twenny"]

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][ Also.. dealers do steal from non users. That kind of is a fact. CreasianDevaili

I love when people say things are facts when they're not, like right here for instance.

Of course some drug dealers have stolen, but saying all of them would or have in the pastis ridiculous.

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="z4twenny"]

I love when people say things are facts when they're not, like right here for instance.

Of course some drug dealers have stolen, but saying all of them would or have in the pastis ridiculous.

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Ben Franklin Please go freedom haters. i hear china is looking for english speakers to teach their schools. their big government and little freedom should suit your desiresmingmao3046

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] Dealers have never stolen from non users? Lotta innocent people went to jail then. Whole lot. CreasianDevaili

Of course some drug dealers have stolen, but saying all of them would or have in the pastis ridiculous.

When you were listing reasons why legalizing drugs would be bad, you started off by saying "dealers steal from non-users", and said that that was a fact. So I think you said that.

No. If you have your drugs fine, do it. I don't mind marajuana, but if they made it legal, we would have a nation of potheads and morons. Keep it illegal

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

Of course some drug dealers have stolen, but saying all of them would or have in the pastis ridiculous.

When you were listing reasons why legalizing drugs would be bad, you started off by saying "dealers steal from non-users", and said that that was a fact. So I think you said that.

No. If you have your drugs fine, do it. I don't mind marajuana, but if they made it legal, we would have a nation of potheads and morons. Keep it illegal

OB-47

Marijuana doesn't make anyone stupid. Stupid people do it, but intelligent people do too.

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="mingmao3046"]"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Ben Franklin Please go freedom haters. i hear china is looking for english speakers to teach their schools. their big government and little freedom should suit your desiresthegerg

No. If you have your drugs fine, do it. I don't mind marajuana, but if they made it legal, we would have a nation of potheads and morons. Keep it illegal

OB-47

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] Yes it would. Who said that?CreasianDevaili

When you were listing reasons why legalizing drugs would be bad, you started off by saying "dealers steal from non-users", and said that that was a fact. So I think you said that.

First off, saying "dealers steal from non-users" implies that the normal dealer is going to steal from non-users, just like if I said "dogs have four legs"
it implies that normal dogs are going to have four legs.

As for your question, no, I'm not a dealer. I'm just pointing out that your statement about thieves was completely irrelevant to the topic. Tons of people steal things, whether they're a drug dealer or not.