Should women have the right to have an abortion?

I think they should, though sometimes I hear people make very good points against it. For instance, suppose a person drives drunk and slams into another car. If the person in the other car is pregnant, and the fetus dies, it is considered mansluaghter, but when the women "chooses", its just her choice.

Bottom line for me however, is I am man, I don't think I should make these descision for women. Plus, there are some really good examples for abortion, such as if the women was raped and gets pregnant. Should the woman have to raise a rapists baby? Or what about if the women's life is on the line?

Really complicated subject...

dnuggs40

I don't like that argument because if you CHOOSE to kill a living thing on purpose that seems worse than accidentally. Yes they shouldn't have been drunk driving but they did not go out and say "Hmm well what fetus can I kill today?" where as the soon to be mother decides on her own will.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

mig_killer2

Neither does a fetus.

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

DisturbedChild7

Which we created...

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

GettingTired

Neither does a fetus.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

mig_killer2

Theyalso express emotions. I am not saying they are on the same level as us, but there is no doubt they can communicate.

[QUOTE="DisturbedChild7"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

mig_killer2

Which we created...

It's right because we say so. You're ignorant. Human's will always say they are superior.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

I think they should, though sometimes I hear people make very good points against it. For instance, suppose a person drives drunk and slams into another car. If the person in the other car is pregnant, and the fetus dies, it is considered mansluaghter, but when the women "chooses", its just her choice.

Bottom line for me however, is I am man, I don't think I should make these descision for women. Plus, there are some really good examples for abortion, such as if the women was raped and gets pregnant. Should the woman have to raise a rapists baby? Or what about if the women's life is on the line?

Really complicated subject...

Duckman5

I don't like that argument because if you CHOOSE to kill a living thing on purpose that seems worse than accidentally. Yes they shouldn't have been drunk driving but they did not go out and say "Hmm well what fetus can I kill today?" where as the soon to be mother decides on her own will.

It's negligence though. Anyways, I was just showing the different standards and giving other examples for and against it.

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="DisturbedChild7"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

DisturbedChild7

Which we created...

It's right because we say so. You're ignorant. Human's will always say they are superior.

[QUOTE="DisturbedChild7"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="DisturbedChild7"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

mig_killer2

Which we created...

It's right because we say so. You're ignorant. Human's will always say they are superior.

For all we know they could have, but since us superior beings only communicate this amongst ourselves we can't ask. Animals could know anything, but they can't tell us. Until we can, we shouldn't suggest what they know.

" For all we know they could have, but since us superior beings only communicate this amongst ourselves we can't ask. Animals could know anything, but they can't tell us. Until we can, we shouldn't suggest what they know."

LoL...c'mon man. I agree some animals are more intelligent then some people give the credit to, but that statement is rediculous...

Again, you only use the "Survival of the fittest" philosophy when you find it conveniant. You don't apply it to weaker and diseased humans, but to other animals. And regardless, none of this justifies not caring about other species of animals. You have a problem with killing other humans because of morals, not because of scientific philosophies. But yet you apply scientific philosophies to the justification of the murder of other animals instead of your morals.GettingTired

" For all we know they could have, but since us superior beings only communicate this amongst ourselves we can't ask. Animals could know anything, but they can't tell us. Until we can, we shouldn't suggest what they know."

LoL...c'mon man. I agree some animals are more intelligent then some people give the credit to, but that statement is rediculous...

dnuggs40

lol, yes it is. My point is since we can't ask animals what they know we definitely shouldn't think we do. He argues against abortion, I believe. Let's say fetus' can think and he doesn't want to be born (stretching yes, but whatever). Who is he to say what that fetus wants. And since as we age we forget all things from young ages, the child will never know it's previous thoughts, and since everyone is raised that life is great when they are young, they obviously will think life is great. I'm just saying that people shouldn't tell people what to do, or how to act, or even claim what something/someone else knows.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" For all we know they could have, but since us superior beings only communicate this amongst ourselves we can't ask. Animals could know anything, but they can't tell us. Until we can, we shouldn't suggest what they know."

LoL...c'mon man. I agree some animals are more intelligent then some people give the credit to, but that statement is rediculous...

DisturbedChild7

lol, yes it is. My point is since we can't ask animals what they know we definitely shouldn't think we do. He argues against abortion, I believe. Let's say fetus' can think and he doesn't want to be born (stretching yes, but whatever). Who is he to say what that fetus wants. And since as we age we forget all things from young ages, the child will never know it's previous thoughts, and since everyone is raised that life is great when they are young, they obviously will think life is great. I'm just saying that people shouldn't tell people what to do, or how to act, or even claim what something/someone else knows.

Generally agree...but this is a very grey subject. Yes you shouldn't tell what people what to do...BUT...if that person's actions harm another human being, then we have no choice. We live in a society...

Again though, I am pro choice, though I think the pro life crowd has some valid arguments.

[QUOTE="GettingTired"]Again, you only use the "Survival of the fittest" philosophy when you find it conveniant. You don't apply it to weaker and diseased humans, but to other animals. And regardless, none of this justifies not caring about other species of animals. You have a problem with killing other humans because of morals, not because of scientific philosophies. But yet you apply scientific philosophies to the justification of the murder of other animals instead of your morals.mig_killer2

I never said that. But you are appyling a specific scientific philosophy/theory to this argument just because it's conveniant.

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Again, you only use the "Survival of the fittest" philosophy when you find it conveniant. You don't apply it to weaker and diseased humans, but to other animals. And regardless, none of this justifies not caring about other species of animals. You have a problem with killing other humans because of morals, not because of scientific philosophies. But yet you apply scientific philosophies to the justification of the murder of other animals instead of your morals.GettingTired

I never said that. But you are appyling a specific scientific philosophy/theory to this argument just because it's conveniant.

[QUOTE="DisturbedChild7"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

" For all we know they could have, but since us superior beings only communicate this amongst ourselves we can't ask. Animals could know anything, but they can't tell us. Until we can, we shouldn't suggest what they know."

LoL...c'mon man. I agree some animals are more intelligent then some people give the credit to, but that statement is rediculous...

dnuggs40

lol, yes it is. My point is since we can't ask animals what they know we definitely shouldn't think we do. He argues against abortion, I believe. Let's say fetus' can think and he doesn't want to be born (stretching yes, but whatever). Who is he to say what that fetus wants. And since as we age we forget all things from young ages, the child will never know it's previous thoughts, and since everyone is raised that life is great when they are young, they obviously will think life is great. I'm just saying that people shouldn't tell people what to do, or how to act, or even claim what something/someone else knows.

Generally agree...but this is a very grey subject. Yes you shouldn't tell what people what to do...BUT...if that person's actions harm another human being, then we have no choice. We live in a society...

Again though, I am pro choice, though I think the pro life crowd has some valid arguments.

The problem is most of society condones the death penalty for serious cases, but those same people are against abortions. The double-standards we have to live with get way out of hand. This of course refers to you saying we are a society, and we have to protect one another.

I just realized I never said my vote, I'm against it, but it isn't my place to say.

Why bother, this argument isn't going anywhere. Go ahead and continue to use your double-standard justification. But all I will say is that one day I hope you can learn to appreciate nature and life other than human life.GettingTired

***** comment.

We'll still never know, you know why? Because we aren't animals and we never will be. We'll never have a full understanding of anything we humans don't create ourselves.

DisturbedChild7

I'm not going to argue, but jsut present soem things to think about

I don't think you would like it if you were inside a dark womb for 2 months, 70+ years of living ahead of you, going from an infant to a child to a teen to an adult, and the woman goes "Oh, that was an accident that I let some guy make me pregnant, I guess I'll jsut destroy this helpless thing growing inside me and cut off his life and his potential to do a single thing on Earth."

Half-Life_man

NO!! IT IS MURDER! Those poor babies didnt chhose this and they dont deserve it!!Mrs_Sesshomaru

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

dnuggs40

[QUOTE="DisturbedChild7"]

We'll still never know, you know why? Because we aren't animals and we never will be. We'll never have a full understanding of anything we humans don't create ourselves.

CptJSparrow

I'm not going to argue, but jsut present soem things to think about

I don't think you would like it if you were inside a dark womb for 2 months, 70+ years of living ahead of you, going from an infant to a child to a teen to an adult, and the woman goes "Oh, that was an accident that I let some guy make me pregnant, I guess I'll jsut destroy this helpless thing growing inside me and cut off his life and his potential to do a single thing on Earth."

Half-Life_man

NO!! IT IS MURDER! Those poor babies didnt chhose this and they dont deserve it!!Mrs_Sesshomaru

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

dnuggs40

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="DisturbedChild7"]

We'll still never know, you know why? Because we aren't animals and we never will be. We'll never have a full understanding of anything we humans don't create ourselves.

mig_killer2

I'm not going to argue, but jsut present soem things to think about

I don't think you would like it if you were inside a dark womb for 2 months, 70+ years of living ahead of you, going from an infant to a child to a teen to an adult, and the woman goes "Oh, that was an accident that I let some guy make me pregnant, I guess I'll jsut destroy this helpless thing growing inside me and cut off his life and his potential to do a single thing on Earth."

Half-Life_man

NO!! IT IS MURDER! Those poor babies didnt chhose this and they dont deserve it!!Mrs_Sesshomaru

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

dnuggs40

:lol: That stuff doesn't matter...as far as us actually being seperated from them physically.

Indeed. Really what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom are two things: opposable thumbs and language.CptJSparrow

Chimps have both and they still throw crap at each other, its obvious we have something else...something magical...something like...um...magic. But then again maybe Chimps have realized the greatest pleasure in life is throwing poop at others.

language is the ONLY thing that seperates us? so, math, science, history, biology, spirituality, those dont seperate us from the animals?mig_killer2

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"]language is the ONLY thing that seperates us? so, math, science, history, biology, spirituality, those dont seperate us from the animals?CptJSparrow

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"] Indeed. Really what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom are two things: opposable thumbs and language.thirstychainsaw

Chimps have both and they still throw crap at each other, its obvious we have something else...something magical...something like...um...magic. But then again maybe Chimps have realized the greatest pleasure in life is throwing poop at others.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="DisturbedChild7"]

We'll still never know, you know why? Because we aren't animals and we never will be. We'll never have a full understanding of anything we humans don't create ourselves.

mig_killer2

I'm not going to argue, but jsut present soem things to think about

I don't think you would like it if you were inside a dark womb for 2 months, 70+ years of living ahead of you, going from an infant to a child to a teen to an adult, and the woman goes "Oh, that was an accident that I let some guy make me pregnant, I guess I'll jsut destroy this helpless thing growing inside me and cut off his life and his potential to do a single thing on Earth."

Half-Life_man

NO!! IT IS MURDER! Those poor babies didnt chhose this and they dont deserve it!!Mrs_Sesshomaru

" it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or a richard dawkins (on biology, not theology) to figure out that humans are a lot smarter than animals"

That's true, but scientist have confirmed some animals *are* intelligent and *do* communicate with eachother. There are some primates that can even learn sign language and communicate with humans.

dnuggs40

Quick without using anything whats 2431 / 17.6?

[QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"] Indeed. Really what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom are two things: opposable thumbs and language.CptJSparrow

Chimps have both and they still throw crap at each other, its obvious we have something else...something magical...something like...um...magic. But then again maybe Chimps have realized the greatest pleasure in life is throwing poop at others.

Chimps have their own language, they can communicate information between each other.

You can also teach them sign language.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]language is the ONLY thing that seperates us? so, math, science, history, biology, spirituality, those dont seperate us from the animals?mig_killer2

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]language is the ONLY thing that seperates us? so, math, science, history, biology, spirituality, those dont seperate us from the animals?mig_killer2

You are aware of teh ecosystem? Animals are just as valueable.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"] Indeed. Really what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom are two things: opposable thumbs and language.thirstychainsaw

Chimps have both and they still throw crap at each other, its obvious we have something else...something magical...something like...um...magic. But then again maybe Chimps have realized the greatest pleasure in life is throwing poop at others.

Chimps have their own language, they can communicate information between each other.

I disagree with abortion. If you didn't want a kid then you shouldn't have done the deed in the first place!deshields538

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]language is the ONLY thing that seperates us? so, math, science, history, biology, spirituality, those dont seperate us from the animals?DisturbedChild7

You are aware of teh ecosystem? Animals are just as valueable.

Once a child is conceived it is a human being and is indeed alive no matter what type of thought it may or may not have.

Also if you are irresponsible and get pregnant when you dont want to. Tough. Your fault. The baby shouldnt have to die because of your mistake. So the solution is ADOPTION. I dont see how that fails.

Once a child is conceived it is a human being and is indeed alive no matter what type of thought it may or may not have.

Also if you are irresponsible and get pregnant when you dont want to. Tough. Your fault. The baby shouldnt have to die because of your mistake. So the solution is ADOPTION. I dont see how that fails.

chester706

Babies can have problems caused by somethig such as rape. You have to take the mental aspect into account.

Why the hell shouldn't it be allowed. If someone became pregnant by accident, why should they be forced to have to raised the kid and have it for life and all the stuff that goes along with that? It totally ruins people's lives if they can't get rid of the baby.camreeno360

[QUOTE="camreeno360"]Why the hell shouldn't it be allowed. If someone became pregnant by accident, why should they be forced to have to raised the kid and have it for life and all the stuff that goes along with that? It totally ruins people's lives if they can't get rid of the baby.chester706

Adoption can lead to worse lives for a child then just dying before it can remember anything...

[QUOTE="camreeno360"]Why the hell shouldn't it be allowed. If someone became pregnant by accident, why should they be forced to have to raised the kid and have it for life and all the stuff that goes along with that? It totally ruins people's lives if they can't get rid of the baby.chester706

[QUOTE="camreeno360"]Why the hell shouldn't it be allowed. If someone became pregnant by accident, why should they be forced to have to raised the kid and have it for life and all the stuff that goes along with that? It totally ruins people's lives if they can't get rid of the baby.chester706

[QUOTE="camreeno360"]Why the hell shouldn't it be allowed. If someone became pregnant by accident, why should they be forced to have to raised the kid and have it for life and all the stuff that goes along with that? It totally ruins people's lives if they can't get rid of the baby.chester706

[QUOTE="chester706"][QUOTE="camreeno360"]Why the hell shouldn't it be allowed. If someone became pregnant by accident, why should they be forced to have to raised the kid and have it for life and all the stuff that goes along with that? It totally ruins people's lives if they can't get rid of the baby.camreeno360

[QUOTE="chester706"][QUOTE="camreeno360"]Why the hell shouldn't it be allowed. If someone became pregnant by accident, why should they be forced to have to raised the kid and have it for life and all the stuff that goes along with that? It totally ruins people's lives if they can't get rid of the baby.quiglythegreat