Students Trade Bibles for Porn

SAN ANTONIO; A group of atheists at the University of Texas at San Antonio is putting a novel twist on the toys-for-guns programs run by many urban police departments. But instead of toys, they are handing out porn in exchange for bibles.

"We consider the bible to be a very negative force in the history of the world," student Ryan Walker said. Walker is part of a student group that calls itself the Atheist Agenda.

Club members this week posted fliers promoting what they call the "Smut for Smut" campaign, then set up a table in the student union to collect religious materials and pass out adult magazines such as Black Label and Playboy.

The group is not officially sanctioned by the university and has raised the ire of several religious organizations on campus.

"In my opinion, there are no atheists. There are fools," Pastor Rick Hawkins of UTSA's Family Praise Center said. "So, that would be foolish propaganda. I don't know one believer that would take his Bible and turn it in for pornography."

Hawkins obviously didn't stop by the Atheist Agenda table, where several students had dropped off copies of the good book and walked away with skin mags.

Atheist Agenda isn't the first student group to explore the idea of introducing porn to former bible-toters. Members say they got the idea from students in Austin who ran a similar pro-porn drive.

Walker added that members thought it sounded like a creative way to exercise their freedom of speech.

http://www.xbiz.com/news/11518

I find this amusing... I'd stop by the table too.:twisted:

Panzer-schreck

To say it is a ''negative force'' and exchanging it with porn to get rid of this ''negative force'' is ironic considering they're spreading playboy around and not thinking it through that they too are spreading something negative to the general public.

[QUOTE="ElZilcho90"]What they want to do in their spare time, they can do. I'm not phased by people with too much time on their hands.dnuggs40

Well considering they are students at a very good school, I doubt this is a case of people with too much time on their hands. Rather, this appears to be young ideological people who are trying to participate in national discussion and to generate controversy and debate. I would imagine these students are creative and smart, and have a bright future ahead of them.

You know how the Church can solve this problem? With every Bible you get or buy, you get two free porn magazines and a video about ultraporn.

That would end everything. Converting people AND giving away porn.

Thats one of the lamest things I ever heard. They should spend their time doing some thing more important, like feeding the poor or helping the community in some way.

Why waste time with this when there are much more obvious problems that need to be worked? Even for a person that does not believe in God, you would think they could recognize what is a waste of time.

i hate it when people complain about people "wasting time" when there are more important things/problems people claim they should be attending. I could thent turn around and say that you are wasting time right now on gs and should do xyz noble thing/feeding the poor/blah.

Let them "waste" their time. It's their right as Americans...

i hate it when people complain about people "wasting time" when there are more important things/problems people claim they should be attending. I could thent turn around and say that you are wasting time right now on gs and should do xyz noble thing/feeding the poor/blah.

Let them "waste" their time. It's their right as Americans...

Panzer-schreck

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

[QUOTE="ElZilcho90"]What they want to do in their spare time, they can do. I'm not phased by people with too much time on their hands.greenprince

Well considering they are students at a very good school, I doubt this is a case of people with too much time on their hands. Rather, this appears to be young ideological people who are trying to participate in national discussion and to generate controversy and debate. I would imagine these students are creative and smart, and have a bright future ahead of them.

Well here you areon a website discussing their ideas. You may disagree with them, butthey have gotten you to talk about their issue on a national level. They werevery smart, as their intent was accomplished. Not to mention, as already shown in this thread, some people agree with them. So you just because you don't, does not mean it was worthless. Maybe I find the entire Christian faith to be disrespectful...don't youthink condemning people to hell for not believing in Jesus as your personal savior could be insulting to some people?

Also, I did not find it that disrespectful, I think it was a bit brash...but so what? Aren't we allowed as US citizens to be as such?

i hate these kinds of atheists. whatever happend to respect and tolerance to others religious beliefs? I believe in God. If you dont, fine. Its not a big deal. There's so much porn on hte internet why would I waste my time finding a bible and trading it in. That said these guys are idiots cause no one reads the bibile anyways.
I used to be a devote christian who brought my bible to church every week but other than when asked to look for a verse i NEVER, EVER opened the thing.tazzydnc

Note they never said they hate religious people, they just think the bible is a negative force. Now note that YOU said you hate certain people.

Who is intolerant?

[QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

[QUOTE="ElZilcho90"]What they want to do in their spare time, they can do. I'm not phased by people with too much time on their hands.dnuggs40

Well considering they are students at a very good school, I doubt this is a case of people with too much time on their hands. Rather, this appears to be young ideological people who are trying to participate in national discussion and to generate controversy and debate. I would imagine these students are creative and smart, and have a bright future ahead of them.

Well here you areon a website discussing their ideas. You may disagree with them, butthey have gotten you to talk about their issue on a national level. They werevery smart, as their intent was accomplished. Not to mention, as already shown in this thread, some people agree with them. So you just because you don't, does not mean it was worthless. Maybe I find the entire Christian faith to be disrespectful...don't youthink condemning people to hell for not believing in Jesus as your personal savior could be insulting to some people?

Also, I did not find it that disrespectful, I think it was a bit brash...but so what? Aren't we allowed as US citizens to be as such?

~-~Should I feel guilty about the fact that I'm more annoyed they're giving out porn then they're taking those people's Bibles?:? I guess I know how easy it is to get a Bible.~-~The_PirateKing

What do you have against porn? Obviously it can't be religious reasons.....I don't think.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

[QUOTE="ElZilcho90"]What they want to do in their spare time, they can do. I'm not phased by people with too much time on their hands.tazzydnc

Well considering they are students at a very good school, I doubt this is a case of people with too much time on their hands. Rather, this appears to be young ideological people who are trying to participate in national discussion and to generate controversy and debate. I would imagine these students are creative and smart, and have a bright future ahead of them.

Well here you areon a website discussing their ideas. You may disagree with them, butthey have gotten you to talk about their issue on a national level. They werevery smart, as their intent was accomplished. Not to mention, as already shown in this thread, some people agree with them. So you just because you don't, does not mean it was worthless. Maybe I find the entire Christian faith to be disrespectful...don't youthink condemning people to hell for not believing in Jesus as your personal savior could be insulting to some people?

Also, I did not find it that disrespectful, I think it was a bit brash...but so what? Aren't we allowed as US citizens to be as such?

That may be true. I think people who believe X would not see something like this and now believe Y. though I do not believe they ever thought they could do that anyways.I just see them as creative students particpating in the great American experiment :)

not a bad dealmjk_1

[QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

[QUOTE="ElZilcho90"]What they want to do in their spare time, they can do. I'm not phased by people with too much time on their hands.dnuggs40

Well considering they are students at a very good school, I doubt this is a case of people with too much time on their hands. Rather, this appears to be young ideological people who are trying to participate in national discussion and to generate controversy and debate. I would imagine these students are creative and smart, and have a bright future ahead of them.

Well here you areon a website discussing their ideas. You may disagree with them, butthey have gotten you to talk about their issue on a national level. They werevery smart, as their intent was accomplished. Not to mention, as already shown in this thread, some people agree with them. So you just because you don't, does not mean it was worthless. Maybe I find the entire Christian faith to be disrespectful...don't youthink condemning people to hell for not believing in Jesus as your personal savior could be insulting to some people?

Also, I did not find it that disrespectful, I think it was a bit brash...but so what? Aren't we allowed as US citizens to be as such?

Whether you believe the Christian belief is disrespectful or not doesn't justify how your solving the problem. I have no anger against Atheists but if I did I would approach them with the respect I have for them with anyone else. I would have debates, post things, spread the word but at the same time be respectable doing it. Just because you have different views doesn't mean you can take advantage or attack a other person views because you don't agree with it. And for the whole condemning people and going to hell thing, not many do that nor support it and it is debated that whether people do go to hell or not.

Also, regardless if you do not find it offensive I'm sure other people of your same belief will find it offensive( I know friends who read find it call it childish and without justification of doing those actions) If you mean Canadian and American citizens of equal rights then yes we are able to have freedom of speech but like it said in the conditions and probably yours too in we are allowed freedom aslong as we dont invade someother person personal freedom.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

[QUOTE="ElZilcho90"]What they want to do in their spare time, they can do. I'm not phased by people with too much time on their hands.greenprince

Well considering they are students at a very good school, I doubt this is a case of people with too much time on their hands. Rather, this appears to be young ideological people who are trying to participate in national discussion and to generate controversy and debate. I would imagine these students are creative and smart, and have a bright future ahead of them.

Well here you areon a website discussing their ideas. You may disagree with them, butthey have gotten you to talk about their issue on a national level. They werevery smart, as their intent was accomplished. Not to mention, as already shown in this thread, some people agree with them. So you just because you don't, does not mean it was worthless. Maybe I find the entire Christian faith to be disrespectful...don't youthink condemning people to hell for not believing in Jesus as your personal savior could be insulting to some people?

Also, I did not find it that disrespectful, I think it was a bit brash...but so what? Aren't we allowed as US citizens to be as such?

Whether you believe the Christian belief is disrespectful or not doesn't justify how your solving the problem. I have no anger against Atheists but if I did I would approach them with the respect I have for them with anyone else. I would have debates, post things, spread the word but at the same time be respectable doing it. Just because you have different views doesn't mean you can take advantage or attack a other person views because you don't agree with it. And for the whole condemning people and going to hell thing, not many do that nor support it and it is debated that whether people do go to hell or not.

Also, regardless if you do not find it offensive I'm sure other people of your same belief will find it offensive( I know friends who read find it call it childish and without justification of doing those actions) If you mean Canadian and American citizens of equal rights they yes we are able to have freedom of speech but like it said in the conditions and probably yours too in we are allowed freedom aslong as we dont invade someother person personal freedom.

I don't know if it furthered their cause. Maybe it did? Maybe a few people who turned in bibles joined whatever club they are a part of? I really don't know, but I have a hard time believing nothing positive (or what they consider positive) has occured from their actions.

"No, its better off saying nothing and have no consequences than saying something and having consequences with no reward."

That's your opinion and the way you might live. I (and obvouisly these students) live by "you never get anything if you don't at least try". I am sure not everything Martin Luther King did procured results, but obviously he keept plugging away. BTW, not comparing these guys views to MLK, just showing how the lack of immediate reward doesn't not influence those who want to do something.

"Just because you have different views doesn't mean you can take advantage or attack a other person views because you don't agree with it. "

Not sure where they attacked or took advantage of anyone. According to the story, this was voluntary and completely up to the person. I think you are being a tad defensive.

"And for the whole condemning people and going to hell thing, not many do that nor support it and it is debated that whether people do go to hell or not."

Houndreds of millions of people around the world do in fact support this ideology, as it is in the bible and preached in churches. Not saying every Christian supports this, but it is there, and widely preached.

"Also, regardless if you do not find it offensive I'm sure other people of your same belief will find it offensive( I know friends who read find it call it childish and without justification of doing those actions)"

Sure, of course. Obviously you have taken exception to it, as I am sure many others have too. But so what? People get offended. Really there is nothing we can do about it. They are meerly practicing the greatest gift this country has given people, which is free speech.

"we are allowed freedom aslong as we dont invade someother person personal freedom. "

Which is true...but in this case they did not invade anyone else's personal freedom.

I know it's been said before, but what's wrong with looking on the internet for porn? :?

Not only is it more convenient, but people wouldn't be staring at you because of the porn in your hand either...

[QUOTE="Samwel_X"]Great... thats constructive how?Panzer-schreck

It's a great way to piss of bible thumpers. It's a great way to stick it to the church. And hey...it's free (kinda) porn.

If anyone is interested, here is the group's president interviewed on NBC. Based on the interview, it appears they accomplished EXACTLY what they set out to do :)

TUCKER CARLSON: Tell me why you're promising to give porn to people who bring in sacred texts, the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran What's the idea?

THOMAS JACKSON: All right. Well, we have Bronze Aged tribal nonsense, these things written by people in tents ages ago, and we're using this to renounce science standards in our classrooms in America. We're using it to kind of influence our political agenda.

And we've read it. Atheists actually tend to be rather knowledgeable about scripture, and we are using this as a medium to get people to know what's actually within the religious text that they hold so dear.

CARLSON: Why porn, though? Why not just argue, you know, about what parts of the sacred text you find specious?

JACKSON: Well, first of all, you know, pornography gets a lot of negative press, and it's smut. A lot of it really is. And we wanted to make the comparison between that and the smut that is religious scripture or a lot of it, you know. The stuff that says a woman is worth half a man, the things that say, you know, you should beat children.

These things aren't acceptable in our society, and if pornography is not acceptable, then these things surely aren't. At the very least, what we're doing is trading something that's very, very bad for something that's only moderately bad.

CARLSON: OK. So it sounds to me like an attempt to create, a fracas on campus and get attention. What kind of attention have you gotten on campus?

JACKSON:Well, we've actually had a lot of open discussion. There has been a minor amount of outrage, but the outrage it's more of a First Amendment rights type of outrage. A lot of people don't really seem to understand that this is America, and we have freedom of speech here.

CARLSON: Oh, come on. Everybody understands that.

JACKSON: We have freedoms people can't even imagine.

CARLSON: Everybody knows this. This sounds like proselytizing. I thought atheists weren't supposed to be in the business of proselytizing.

JACKSON: Well, first of all, don't tell atheists what to do. We'll set our own agenda. Just kidding, just kidding.

But we were sitting at a table, and people came to us. We didn't knock door to door. We don't have a church on every corner in our country to push this on people. You know, we're just a bunch of college students down at UTSA. There's nothing more to it.

CARLSON: Have you picked up any girls doing this, honestly?

JACKSON: I pick up girls constantly.

CARLSON: Every college pursuit is to pick up girls. None?

JACKSON: Well, no, no. It's to become educated, but picking up girls is a nice thing to do on the side, and I haven't had too many problems there.

CARLSON: What texts-what kind of texts have you gotten, and what kind of porn are you handing out?

JACKSON: Well, we got quite a few Bibles. We got a couple copies of the Koran. Somebody brought in a Satanic Bible. I haven't gotten a chance to look at that. I'm not really sure what that is. It was a few religious texts. It was something-I can't remember.

We actually had quite a few different books brought in. ... What we were handing out, we had everything labeled from 0 to 5. Zero is like "Playboy," things that aren't really necessarily pornography. I mean, if you've ever read a "Playboy" ... you know, it's not really that hard core, so people got to decide what they wanted.

CARLSON: The bottom of this, on your web site, you have a statement: "We find that morality should not be derived from religious texts." What should morality be ... what should it be derived from?

JACKSON: Well, morality is not derived from religious texts. Religious texts actually contradict each other. If you read the Bible, it contradicts itself on nearly every page. And the fact that people can decide which one to go with shows that they are getting their morality from somewhere else.

Morality is actually based off of empathy, and failing empathy, it's based off of fear of reprisal from the law. That is where morality comes from.

CARLSON: Yes. But the law, it's a circular argument. You need to think through it a little bit more, Thomas, because the law itself is based on at least a notion of abstract right and wrong, and that is not rooted in empathy or any emotion, but ... you know, an abstract belief that this is right and this is wrong because someone larger, in control, says so.

JACKSON: Well, no, that's not true. It's based off of things that are good for society. If citizens murder each other, this is bad for society. And you see this across the board in many nations.

Several religions have stumbled upon this, but it's not the religious text that's bringing this to people. They are finding this on their own, and societies that don't find this don't survive.

CARLSON: Thomas Jackson, thanks a lot for joining us. I appreciate it. Don't agree with what you do, but I appreciate your explaining it.

JACKSON: No problem.

[QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

[QUOTE="ElZilcho90"]What they want to do in their spare time, they can do. I'm not phased by people with too much time on their hands.dnuggs40

Well considering they are students at a very good school, I doubt this is a case of people with too much time on their hands. Rather, this appears to be young ideological people who are trying to participate in national discussion and to generate controversy and debate. I would imagine these students are creative and smart, and have a bright future ahead of them.

Well here you areon a website discussing their ideas. You may disagree with them, butthey have gotten you to talk about their issue on a national level. They werevery smart, as their intent was accomplished. Not to mention, as already shown in this thread, some people agree with them. So you just because you don't, does not mean it was worthless. Maybe I find the entire Christian faith to be disrespectful...don't youthink condemning people to hell for not believing in Jesus as your personal savior could be insulting to some people?

Also, I did not find it that disrespectful, I think it was a bit brash...but so what? Aren't we allowed as US citizens to be as such?

Whether you believe the Christian belief is disrespectful or not doesn't justify how your solving the problem. I have no anger against Atheists but if I did I would approach them with the respect I have for them with anyone else. I would have debates, post things, spread the word but at the same time be respectable doing it. Just because you have different views doesn't mean you can take advantage or attack a other person views because you don't agree with it. And for the whole condemning people and going to hell thing, not many do that nor support it and it is debated that whether people do go to hell or not.

Also, regardless if you do not find it offensive I'm sure other people of your same belief will find it offensive( I know friends who read find it call it childish and without justification of doing those actions) If you mean Canadian and American citizens of equal rights they yes we are able to have freedom of speech but like it said in the conditions and probably yours too in we are allowed freedom aslong as we dont invade someother person personal freedom.

I don't know if it furthered their cause. Maybe it did? Maybe a few people who turned in bibles joined whatever club they are a part of? I really don't know, but I have a hard time believing nothing positive (or what they consider positive) has occured from their actions.

"No, its better off saying nothing and have no consequences than saying something and having consequences with no reward."

That's your opinion and the way you might live. I (and obvouisly these students) live by "you never get anything if you don't at least try". I am sure not everything Martin Luther King did procured results, but obviously he keept plugging away. BTW, not comparing these guys views to MLK, just showing how the lack of immediate reward doesn't not influence those who want to do something.

Please, don't even start about MLK he was a great person and actually had motives of what he is doing. Unlike the kids in school they weren't suppressed, humiliated and insulted by the injustices that MLK endured. How does comparing the two have any relevance? they are fighting for two different reasons. in of which that MLK got killed for but the kids from college aren't even criticized, suppressed or insulted what are they fighting for? Oh, MLK was Christian if they followed the method of his actions because it would be ironic considering the methods they are doing is from a Christan that they are indirectly targeting. So whats your point? They have no reason to attack they're just there to piss off some people where MLK was there for Justice and equality. Again which show to similarities.

"Just because you have different views doesn't mean you can take advantage or attack a other person views because you don't agree with it. "

Not sure where they attacked or took advantage of anyone. According to the story, this was voluntary and completely up to the person. I think you are being a tad defensive.

What are you talking about the majority of those people who are trading their bibles are getting it from Christians, Churches and getting IT for free. That is Exploitation to the highest degree. Whether it is voluntary doesn't make it less offensive they are basically saying **** the system and the bible which in directly affecting the Christians. Face it, its attacking a group of billions weather you accept it not. Being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious how childish.

"And for the whole condemning people and going to hell thing, not many do that nor support it and it is debated that whether people do go to hell or not."

God's Silence 6

Adam's Punishment 6

Cain's Punishment 8

The Antediluvians 9

The Deluge 9

Sodom and Gomorrah 10

The Testimony of Scholars 12

The Promise to Adam 15

The Promise to Abraham 16

The Promises to Obedient 19

The Threats to Wicked 21

Gathered to their Fathers 22

The Spirit Returns to God 23

The Fate of Amnon 23

Knowledge of God Gives Peace 25

God's Anger is Limited 25

God's Mercy is Unlimited 27

The Testimony of the Prophets 27

Universal Obedience 28

Man's Infirmity Doubts God's Goodness 28

Universal Dominion 29

The Prophet Isaiah 29

God's Word Conquers 30

Jeremiah 31

Hosea 31

Micah 32

Daniel 32

The Wise Woman 32

A Refiner 33

The Name Jesus 34

The Word Gospel 35

The First Christmas Anthem 35

John the Baptist 36

An Incident and its Lesson 36

Be Like God 38

The Lord's Prayer 40

The Universal Fatherhood 40

The Good Samaritan 45

The Gospel Leaven 46

The Jewish Leaven 46

All the Lost are to be Saved 47

Ninety and Nine (Poem) 49

Christ Will Accomplish His Mission 50

The Resurrection 56

The Resurrection to Damnation 58

The Nature of Punishment 65

The Prayer of Jesus for His Murderers 66

God the Creator 68

God's Holiness 69

God's Mercy 69

God's Justice 70

God's Omniscience 73

God's Omnipotence 74

God's Love 75

God's Attributes Unlimited 77

God's Power Unlimited 78

God's Wisdom Unlimited 78

God's Love Unlimited 79

God's Will, Pleasure, Purpose, Promise and Oath 80

You Must be Born Again 88

A Conditional Promise Fulfilled 88

Sin Burned, Sinners Saved 88

Every Soul Worth Saving 88

Comfort for All 88

Heaven's Joys Certain 89

The Substance of Things Hoped For 89

The Wickedest Saved 89

The Image of God 90

Paul's Hope 92

The Glad Tidings of God 92

The Universe shall be Delivered from Sin 93

What God will not do 94

What God will do 94

Sin, Satan, Death and Hell Destroyed 94

All Shall be Righteous 95

All Destined to God 97

The People were Astonished 98

Universal Pardon and Obedience 98

Christ Cancels Adam 99

A Healthful Doctrine 99

No More Sorrow 100

Universal Obedience Prophesied 100

The Universal Propitiation 100

Their Works Follow Them 100

The Building of God Sure 102

God Hates Sin 102

God All in All 102

God's Glory 103

God A Universal Savior 103

Why Paul was Persecuted 104

All are to be Righteous 104

The Final Consummation 105

Nice try but Hundreds of millions of Christian disagree with it the thing about Christianity is that it is so diverse and that Jesus supports all Christians.

"Also, regardless if you do not find it offensive I'm sure other people of your same belief will find it offensive( I know friends who read find it call it childish and without justification of doing those actions)"

Sure, of course. Obviously you have taken exception to it, as I am sure many others have too. But so what? People get offended. Really there is nothing we can do about it. They are meerly practicing the greatest gift this country has given people, which is free speech.

Being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious isn't justified through people standards. You have to be respectable to get support. If they're simply there to get freedom of speech good for them. However that is not the case, they were there to convert and change people's ideas and beliefs. However they did not accomplish that for a pastor said they are being more foolish than being true Atheists. Showing respect and being humble is how you attract people not through distribution of pron.

"we are allowed freedom aslong as we dont invade someother person personal freedom. "

Which is true...but in this case they did not invade anyone else's personal freedom.

Yes but they are suppressing freedom of Religion calling it a ''negative influence'' Wheather you noticed or not they are attacking Christianity that is suppressing some one freedom of Religion.

[QUOTE="--Wolf--"]I can understand no bibles....but porn for them? Cmon..sutherland19

It's perfect. Trading in your bible, for something the church preaches against. Perfect. A++

Indeed that's awesome :lol:

If anyone is interested, here is the group's president interviewed on NBC. Based on the interview, it appears they accomplished EXACTLY what they set out to do :)

TUCKER CARLSON:Tell me why you're promising to give porn to people who bring in sacred texts, the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran What's the idea?

THOMAS JACKSON: All right. Well, we have Bronze Aged tribal nonsense, these things written by people in tents ages ago, and we're using this to renounce science standards in our classrooms in America. We're using it to kind of influence our political agenda.

And we've read it. Atheists actually tend to be rather knowledgeable about scripture, and we are using this as a medium to get people to know what's actually within the religious text that they hold so dear.

CARLSON: Why porn, though? Why not just argue, you know, about what parts of the sacred text you find specious?

JACKSON: Well, first of all, you know, pornography gets a lot of negative press, and it's smut. A lot of it really is. And we wanted to make the comparison between that and the smut that is religious scripture or a lot of it, you know. The stuff that says a woman is worth half a man, the things that say, you know, you should beat children.

Nice try and the beat kid this is misinterpreted

The Greek for "provoke your children to anger" is parprgizo. Literally this means do not make the children feel the anger that you feel- don't punish them just because you are angry and in the process make them angry to.

Every translation is wrong to some degree (whether you're translating the Bible or The Three Musketeers); the literal Greek does not come through in any of 10+ translations I just looked at. So you're right I didn't quote the actual verse; but neither did you. I didn't because I'm assuming that most people who read this cannot speak ancient Greek.

The Woman Role and they are Equal proof

Isa 3:12 - As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

The cross of Christ is the great equalizer. John 3:16 says, "Whosoever will," and that is an all-inclusive statement that leaves no one out on the basis of position in society, mental capacity, or gender. We also find a passage in Galatians that tells us of our equal opportunity for salvation. "For we are all the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ. For as many of you as have been baptized (identified) into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:26-28).

These things aren't acceptable in our society, and if pornography is not acceptable,then these things surely aren't. At the very least, what we're doing is trading something that's very, very bad for something that's only moderately bad.

CARLSON: OK. So it sounds to me like an attempt to create, a fracas on campus and get attention. What kind of attention have you gotten on campus?

JACKSON:Well, we've actually had a lot of open discussion. There has been a minor amount of outrage, but the outrage it's more of a First Amendment rights type of outrage. A lot of people don't really seem to understand that this is America, and we have freedom of speech here.

CARLSON: Oh, come on. Everybody understands that.

JACKSON:We have freedoms people can't even imagine.

CARLSON:Everybody knows this. This sounds like proselytizing. I thought atheists weren't supposed to be in the business of proselytizing.

JACKSON:Well, first of all, don't tell atheists what to do. We'll set our own agenda. Just kidding, just kidding.

But we were sitting at a table, and people came to us. We didn't knock door to door. We don't have a church on every corner in our country to push this on people. You know, we're just a bunch of college students down at UTSA. There's nothing more to it.

CARLSON: Have you picked up any girls doing this, honestly?

JACKSON: I pick up girls constantly.

CARLSON: Every college pursuit is to pick up girls. None?

JACKSON:Well, no, no. It's to become educated, but picking up girls is a nice thing to do on the side, and I haven't had too many problems there.

CARLSON: What texts-what kind of texts have you gotten, and what kind of porn are you handing out?

JACKSON:Well, we got quite a few Bibles. We got a couple copies of the Koran. Somebody brought in a Satanic Bible. I haven't gotten a chance to look at that. I'm not really sure what that is. It was a few religious texts. It was something-I can't remember.

We actually had quite a few different books brought in. ... What we were handing out, we had everything labeled from 0 to 5. Zero is like "Playboy," things that aren't really necessarily pornography. I mean, if you've ever read a "Playboy" ... you know, it's not really that hard core, so people got to decide what they wanted.

CARLSON: The bottom of this, on your web site, you have a statement: "We find that morality should not be derived from religious texts." What should morality be ... what should it be derived from?

JACKSON: Well, morality is not derived from religious texts. Religious texts actually contradict each other. If you read the Bible, it contradicts itself on nearly every page. And the fact that people can decide which one to go with shows that they are getting their morality from somewhere else.

Morality is actually based off of empathy, and failing empathy, it's based off of fear of reprisal from the law. That is where morality comes from.

CARLSON:Yes. But the law, it's a circular argument. You need to think through it a little bit more, Thomas, because the law itself is based on at least a notion of abstract right and wrong, and that is not rooted in empathy or any emotion, but ... you know, an abstract belief that this is right and this is wrong because someone larger, in control, says so.

JACKSON:Well, no, that's not true. It's based off of things that are good for society. If citizens murder each other, this is bad for society. And you see this across the board in many nations.

Several religions have stumbled upon this, but it's not the religious text that's bringing this to people. They are finding this on their own, and societies that don't find this don't survive.

CARLSON:Thomas Jackson, thanks a lot for joining us. I appreciate it. Don't agree with what you do, but I appreciate your explaining it.

JACKSON: No problem.

dnuggs40

"Yes but they are suppressing freedom of Religion calling it a ''negative influence'' Wheather you noticed or not they are attacking Christianity that is suppressing some one freedom of Religion"

It does not appear that you know what suppression of freedom of religion is...

"Being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious isn't justified through people standards. You have to be respectable to get support. If they're simply there to get freedom of speech good for them. However that is not the case, they were there to convert and change people's ideas and beliefs. However they did not accomplish that for a pastor said they are being more foolish than being true Atheists. Showing respect and being humble is how you attract people not through distribution of pron"

They made prime time news and were able to speak about thier views on a national level...it appears they accomplished a great deal...

"Nice try but Hundreds of millions of Christian disagree with it the thing about Christianity is that it is so diverse and that Jesus supports all Christians. "

That my point, Billions of people are not Christian, and are going to hell (according to the bible). Maybe not all Christians believe this, but it is in there.

"Better start reading. "

I did. Have you read revalations?

"What are you talking about the majority of those people who are trading their bibles are getting it from Christians, Churches and getting IT for free. That is Exploitation to the highest degree"

What non-sense are you talking about? Ever consider those were people's personal bibles? I have a bible, and I am not even Christian. You are acting like they are stealing bibles out of churches, which is obviously not the case. Exploitation..lol.

"Please, don't even start about MLK he was a great person and actually had motives of what he is doing. Unlike the kids in school they weren't suppressed, humiliated and insulted by the injustices that MLK endured. How does comparing the two have any relevance? they are fighting for two different reasons. in of which that MLK got killed for but the kids from college aren't even criticized, suppressed or insulted what are they fighting for? Oh, MLK was Christian if they followed the method of his actions because it would be ironic considering the methods they are doing is from a Christan that they are indirectly targeting. So whats your point? They have no reason to attack they're just there to piss off some people where MLK was there for Justice and equality. Again which show to similarities"

you didn't even bother to read my post in full. I point you to:

"BTW, not comparing these guys views to MLK, just showing how the lack of immediate reward doesn't not influence those who want to do something."

And about the value of a women vs a man:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+27:3-7

Man = 60

Women = 30

So a womman is *gasp* half the value of a man. If anything, the bible contradicts itself on numerous occasions.

Porn's not hard to find......what's with the kids of today?

LJS9502_basic

"Yes but they are suppressing freedom of Religion calling it a ''negative influence'' Wheather you noticed or not they are attacking Christianity that is suppressing some one freedom of Religion"

It does not appear that you know what suppression of freedom of religion is...

Supression - Distinct aspects of civil oppression, generally censorship, and non-lethal human rightsabuses. Abuse and censorshipand human right abuse pretty much explains what they are doing.

"Being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious isn't justified through people standards. You have to be respectable to get support. If they're simply there to get freedom of speech good for them. However that is not the case, they were there to convert and change people's ideas and beliefs. However they did not accomplish that for a pastor said they are being more foolish than being true Atheists. Showing respect and being humble is how you attract people not through distribution of pron"

They made prime time news and were able to speak about thier views on a national level...it appears they accomplished a great deal...

But did they get support? Doubt it, they are there for the intention if not anything else. They point is to make others change to their ideas but if you look at the interview he just bashed a whole religion. Not to smart in my perspective. You're obviously not convincing anyone, he is just pissing people off now.

"Nice try but Hundreds of millions of Christian disagree with it the thing about Christianity is that it is so diverse and that Jesus supports all Christians. "

That my point, Billions of people are not Christian, and are going to hell (according to the bible). Maybe not all Christians believe this, but it is in there.

"Better start reading. "

I did. Have you read Revelations?

Yeah I did and even they have some interpretations of things can change depending on that person.

The apostle describes the "far-off divine event to which the whole creation moves," thus:

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God and they shall be to me a people: and they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, know the Lord; for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Heb. 8: 10-12.

And the Apocalyptic seer saw all men happy when he beheld the final consummation:

Every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, blessing, and honor, and glory, and power be unto him that sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever. Rev. 5: 13. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

"What are you talking about the majority of those people who are trading their bibles are getting it from Christians, Churches and getting IT for free. That is Exploitation to the highest degree"

What non-sense are you talking about? Ever consider those were people's personal bibles? I have a bible, and I am not even Christian. You are acting like they are stealing bibles out of churches, which is obviously not the case. Exploitation..lol.

Yet in the previous posts I recall people saying you can get a bible anywhere if you have been reading the thread it self. Therefore I regard that the people who are trading their bibles are getting it off from a source. Nice try to make it seem like you had no idea what I was saying. You just help me prove that the people dont even have to be Christians who trade it. Lol I cant believe you're actually thinki that these people are actually Christian. :?

"Please, don't even start about MLK he was a great person and actually had motives of what he is doing. Unlike the kids in school they weren't suppressed, humiliated and insulted by the injustices that MLK endured. How does comparing the two have any relevance? they are fighting for two different reasons. in of which that MLK got killed for but the kids from college aren't even criticized, suppressed or insulted what are they fighting for? Oh, MLK was Christian if they followed the method of his actions because it would be ironic considering the methods they are doing is from a Christan that they are indirectly targeting. So whats your point? They have no reason to attack they're just there to piss off some people where MLK was there for Justice and equality. Again which show to similarities"

you didn't even bother to read my post in full. I point you to:

"BTW, not comparing these guys views to MLK, just showing how the lack of immediate reward doesn't not influence those who want to do something."

I read the whole thing and apprently you didnt read my post ''motives of what he is doing. Unlike the kids in school they weren't suppressed, humiliated and insulted by the injustices that MLK endured. How does comparing the two have any relevance''

they are fighting for two different reasons. in of which that MLK got killed for but the kids from college aren't even criticized, suppressed or insulted what are they fighting for?

You see that something their doing is futile and doesnt really contribute to anything. What is something they are trying to do? really? I have no idea its just some guys who think bashing a 2 thousand year belief system is cool.

dnuggs40

"Supression - Distinct aspects of civil oppression, generally censorship, and non-lethal human rightsabuses. Abuse and censorshipand human right abuse pretty much explains what they are doing. "

Again, what they did was NOT suppression. How was it cencorship? If they went around stealing bibles then and forcing people not to pray that would be something, but all they did was allow people who WANTED TO trade in their bible for porn. This is not censorship nor is it suppression. LOL...really man...

"But did they get support? Doubt it, they are there for the intention if not anything else. They point is to make others change to their ideas but if you look at the interview he just bashed a whole religion. Not to smart in my perspective. You're obviously not convincing anyone, he is just pissing people off now. "

Well...if you read what they said, then yes, they did. Quite a few people traded in, and joined the group. Plus, open discussion was created. Plus they got a spot on prime time news, they succeeded.

"Yet in the previous posts I recall people saying you can get a bible anywhere if you have been reading the thread it self. Therefore I regard that the people who are trading their bibles are getting it off from a source. Nice try to make it seem like you had no idea what I was saying. You just help me prove that the peopledont even have toChristians who trade it. Lol I cant believe you're actually thinking that these people are actually Christian. "

you can, and it is free. So if some one gives you something *gasp* it is now yours. Did anybody sign a contract with the people giving out bibles? Nope. Not exploitation. And not ONCE have I said that these people were Christians, in fact, the example I used is that I have one, and I am NOT christian. You seem to not have very good reading skills. The point is, it's THEIR bible, however they have acquired them. They are not stealing, it's THEIR property and they are free to do with it what they please.

"You see that something their doing is futile and doesnt really contribute to anything. What is something they are trying to do? really? I have no idea its just some guys who think bashing a 2 thousand year belief system is cool."

Well, thats your OPINION, and I am fine with that. But they do not believe what they are doing is futile, nor are they just running around bashing the bible. In the interview they laid out their rationality, and spoke intelligently. I really didn't see them say anything like :"ya huhuhu...religion sucks and this is cool huhuh!". They laid out their belief, and why they are doing what they are doing.

And about the value of a women vs a man:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+27:3-7

Man = 60

Women = 30

So a womman is *gasp* half the value of a man. If anything, the bible contradicts itself on numerous occasions.

dnuggs40

and thats the old testament if you havent read the new one Jesus said it wasnt ok to label them as such anymore.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

And about the value of a women vs a man:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+27:3-7

Man = 60

Women = 30

So a womman is *gasp* half the value of a man. If anything, the bible contradicts itself on numerous occasions.

greenprince

and thats the old testament if you havent read the new one Jesus said it wasnt ok to label them as such anymore.

I have read both. I am Jewish, and my wife is catholic. When I was over seas I read through the entire Bible from cover to cover. Lots of very interesting things in the bible, both NT and OT :P

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

And about the value of a women vs a man:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+27:3-7

Man = 60

Women = 30

So a womman is *gasp* half the value of a man. If anything, the bible contradicts itself on numerous occasions.

greenprince

and thats the old testament if you havent read the new one Jesus said it wasnt ok to label them as such anymore.

Exactly, what a lot of people that try to find contradictions in the Bible fail to realize that the naming of the New and Old testaments are there for a reason, the Old testament has been fufilled, and the New Testament has not, so Christians must abide by the laws of the NEW testament, not the Old.

Also, on the point, anyone that would trade a Bible for porn isn't a Christian, so they arn't supporting their "cause."