SWAT team busts into house and kills 2 puppies over a gram of weed

Are you kidding me? You are telling me that train professionals, who stand nearly five feet tall over a small dog, should just kill the dog instead of removing it? That just seems unnecessary no matter what the circumstance is. If there is a cage present, 1 out of those 5 swat members could have detained the dog then started searching the apartment....tocool340

I'm going to admit that I don't know proper SWAT procedure regarding these kinds of raids, but I'd be surprised if what you're suggesting is how these raids are conducted.

You go in fast, you secure the area as quickly as possible, or you likely lose a big advantage in the element of surprise. If you bust into a home and then waste time trying to cage up a dog, then you're giving the people in the next room time to slip out a window or grab their rifles. I would be SHOCKED if it's standard procedure to waste time messing with a damn dog when conducting these kinds of raids.

Why would you waste time detaining a freaking dog when for all you know there are likely heavily armed people in the next room?

The SWAT team's members did the right thing

Their job is to take down the target and whatever might interfere with that

I'm sorry but that means any dogs in the house have to be killed, there's no way around it.

If you don't kill the dogs and one of the is able to distract a SWAT member by attacking and the suspect hurts another SWAT member that's their fault.

This is another reason why you shouldn't do illegal things

Jaysonguy

[QUOTE="tocool340"]Are you kidding me? You are telling me that train professionals, who stand nearly five feet tall over a small dog, should just kill the dog instead of removing it? That just seems unnecessary no matter what the circumstance is. If there is a cage present, 1 out of those 5 swat members could have detained the dog then started searching the apartment....MrGeezer

I'm going to admit that I don't know proper SWAT procedure regarding these kinds of raids, but I'd be surprised if what you're suggesting is how these raids are conducted.

You go in fast, you secure the area as quickly as possible, or you likely lose a big advantage in the element of surprise. If you bust into a home and then waste time trying to cage up a dog, then you're giving the people in the next room time to slip out a window or grab their rifles. I would be SHOCKED if it's standard procedure to waste time messing with a damn dog when conducting these kinds of raids.

Why would you waste time detaining a freaking dog when for all you know there are likely heavily armed people in the next room?

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The SWAT team's members did the right thing

Their job is to take down the target and whatever might interfere with that

I'm sorry but that means any dogs in the house have to be killed, there's no way around it.

If you don't kill the dogs and one of the is able to distract a SWAT member by attacking and the suspect hurts another SWAT member that's their fault.

This is another reason why you shouldn't do illegal things

tocool340

Really?

You'd be ok if a SWAT team moved like that?

"Ok before we break in we see they have 2 dogs and a cat, now Tom you grab the brown dog and Tony guy grab the black one and Toby? Yeah see if you can get the cat out of there. The rest of us will hold the suspects until you get back"

No, their entire job means they have enter and neutralize the situation as fast as possible, that means that pets are on the expendable list because they'll only get in the way. There is not one reason to let the pets live in that situation.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The SWAT team's members did the right thing

Their job is to take down the target and whatever might interfere with that

I'm sorry but that means any dogs in the house have to be killed, there's no way around it.

If you don't kill the dogs and one of the is able to distract a SWAT member by attacking and the suspect hurts another SWAT member that's their fault.

This is another reason why you shouldn't do illegal things

import_fighter1

Actually everything they did was by the book so before saying others don't know what the rules are you better go look for yourself

[QUOTE="Jfisch93"]

What a disturbing video... seriously this is just another reason why weed needs to be legal.

bruinfan617

How, exactly? It IS his opinion, is it not?

[QUOTE="import_fighter1"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The SWAT team's members did the right thing

Their job is to take down the target and whatever might interfere with that

I'm sorry but that means any dogs in the house have to be killed, there's no way around it.

If you don't kill the dogs and one of the is able to distract a SWAT member by attacking and the suspect hurts another SWAT member that's their fault.

This is another reason why you shouldn't do illegal things

Jaysonguy

Actually everything they did was by the book so before saying others don't know what the rules are you better go look for yourself

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="import_fighter1"] This right here makes me sick.. it shows your lack of knowledge of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence.. import_fighter1

Actually everything they did was by the book so before saying others don't know what the rules are you better go look for yourself

No, that's exactly what it means

They did everything by the book which means that when making up the procedure of things to do in these cases they decided this was the right course of action

What that SWAT team did was most certainly right, I don't know how anyone could even argue against what they did.

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty and...dont know what else to say this is messed up.

This title is a bit misleading. They weren't there for a gram of weed, they were there because they had reason to believe that there were drugs in that house. Sad as it is that the dogs got shot, the SWAT team did do a good job of securing everyone as quickly as they did. They don't exactly have the luxury of time in situations like this, and taking the time to round up a few dogs could lead to someone escaping, or getting a weapon and firing at them.

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty and...dont know what else to say this is messed up.

rzepak

So you don't want them to be quick and efficient?

Instead you want a SWAT team that makes sure it's a good time, helps the pets out of the building, maybe calls ahead?

The target isn't a priority?

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty and...dont know what else to say this is messed up.

Jaysonguy

So you don't want them to be quick and efficient?

Instead you want a SWAT team that makes sure it's a good time, helps the pets out of the building, maybe calls ahead?

The target isn't a priority?

Not really, no. I want a SWAT team that accepts responsibility for the mistakes it makes, and a legal system that is held accountable when such mistakes are made. I don't think that's too much to ask.

And I'd like to see the drug war ended in America permanently and totally, precisely due to the incredible use of warlike force perpetrated on average Americans in order to promote a rather vain agenda.

WTF, killing those dogs was so unnecessary and sick.:|

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="positivebalance"]

and that's EXACTLY why snitch intel is FLAWED.

positivebalance

It's not the team's fault then, is that what you're saying? Isn't that a major contradiction, because you've been saying these SWAT officers are a bunch of filthy pigs, while in reality they were given incorrect intel?

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty and...dont know what else to say this is messed up.

m0zart

So you don't want them to be quick and efficient?

Instead you want a SWAT team that makes sure it's a good time, helps the pets out of the building, maybe calls ahead?

The target isn't a priority?

Not really, no. I want a SWAT team that accepts responsibility for the mistakes it makes, and a legal system that is held accountable when such mistakes are made. I don't think that's too much to ask.

And I'd like to see the drug war ended in America permanently and totally, precisely due to the incredible use of warlike force perpetrated on average Americans in order to promote a rather vain agenda.

Which mistake are we talking about?

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty and...dont know what else to say this is messed up.

Jaysonguy

So you don't want them to be quick and efficient?

Instead you want a SWAT team that makes sure it's a good time, helps the pets out of the building, maybe calls ahead?

The target isn't a priority?

And you think breaking into the house and terrorizing a child, murdering harmless dogs for weed is the right way to go? Id prefer they used common sense instead of being quick and efficient. Soon being quick and efficient will be throwing a grenade into the house and killing all inside or instead of catching a running culprit cops will just run him over with a car. To me it does not matter if the whole raid was by the books what was done was unnecesary and sick and the shooter desrves to die like a dog.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty and...dont know what else to say this is messed up.

rzepak

So you don't want them to be quick and efficient?

Instead you want a SWAT team that makes sure it's a good time, helps the pets out of the building, maybe calls ahead?

The target isn't a priority?

And you think breaking into the house and terrorizing a child, murdering harmless dogs for weed is the right way to go? Id prefer they used common sense instead of being quick and efficient. Soon being quick and efficient will be throwing a grenade into the house and killing all inside or instead of catching a running culprit cops will just run him over with a car. To me it does not matter if the whole raid was by the books what was done was unnecesary and sick and the shooter desrves to die like a dog.

They went sent in to grab a target

They did everything by the book in getting that target

I applaud them for what they did, they handled that incredibly well. They had to take down 2 animals and avoid hurting a child while arresting that person.

I'm confused why you think what they did was so bad.

Which mistake are we talking about?Jaysonguy

I consider it a gross mistake and overstatement to bust into a home and shoot someone's pets over a tiny bit of Marijuana, which is itselfthe result of amistake (and a gross injustice)on the part ofthe legal system andSWAT teams to act on information passed in most of the time anonymously with little other evidence.

This particular incident is just one of many that happen on a regular basis in the United States around our insane State and Federal Drug Laws, most of which enable acts that would not have been tolerated in most other instances. This type of response is overkill, I would say even with a large drug load, but certainly with the tiny amountfound used to justify the incredible amount of force applied.

Yes, I realize it's knowledge they didn't have going in, and that's precisely the problem. They took a chance on very slim evidence, and now that they did that they take the usual tact of disclaiming any sort of responsibility for that obvious mistake.

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty and...dont know what else to say this is messed up.

rzepak

Wow, just wow :|

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Which mistake are we talking about?m0zart

I consider it a gross mistake and overstatement to bust into a home and shoot someone's pets over a tiny bit of Marijuana, which is itselfthe result of amistake (and a gross injustice)on the part ofthe legal system andSWAT teams to act on information passed in most of the time anonymously with little other evidence.

This particular incident is just one of many that happen on a regular basis in the United States around our insane State and Federal Drug Laws, most of which enable acts that would not have been tolerated in most other instances. This type of response is overkill, I would say even with a large drug load, but certainly with the tiny amountfound used to justify the incredible amount of force applied.

Yes, I realize it's knowledge they didn't have going in, and that's precisely the problem. They took a chance on very slim evidence, and now that they did that they take the usual tact of disclaiming any sort of responsibility for that obvious mistake.

OK, I'm keeping this just to the actions of the SWAT team not what or how they knew what they were going into.

You really think this is too much force?

They put down two animals that would have caused a problem and detained the suspect. That to me is a picture perfect run.

What part do you see as overkill?

that makes me so sad I love dog and puppys why can't they just have shot the guy whos weed it was?

[QUOTE="m0zart"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Which mistake are we talking about?Jaysonguy

I consider it a gross mistake and overstatement to bust into a home and shoot someone's pets over a tiny bit of Marijuana, which is itselfthe result of amistake (and a gross injustice)on the part ofthe legal system andSWAT teams to act on information passed in most of the time anonymously with little other evidence.

This particular incident is just one of many that happen on a regular basis in the United States around our insane State and Federal Drug Laws, most of which enable acts that would not have been tolerated in most other instances. This type of response is overkill, I would say even with a large drug load, but certainly with the tiny amountfound used to justify the incredible amount of force applied.

Yes, I realize it's knowledge they didn't have going in, and that's precisely the problem. They took a chance on very slim evidence, and now that they did that they take the usual tact of disclaiming any sort of responsibility for that obvious mistake.

OK, I'm keeping this just to the actions of the SWAT team not what or how they knew what they were going into.

You really think this is too much force?

They put down two animals that would have caused a problem and detained the suspect. That to me is a picture perfect run.

What part do you see as overkill?

Also for those who argue "it was only a little bit of weed" again taking their intelligence into account for all they knew he could have been an armed drug dealer. They didn't know he was only going to have a little bit of weed. If there's anyone you should be angry with it should be the intelligence gathers, not the SWAT team.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="m0zart"]

I consider it a gross mistake and overstatement to bust into a home and shoot someone's pets over a tiny bit of Marijuana, which is itselfthe result of amistake (and a gross injustice)on the part ofthe legal system andSWAT teams to act on information passed in most of the time anonymously with little other evidence.

This particular incident is just one of many that happen on a regular basis in the United States around our insane State and Federal Drug Laws, most of which enable acts that would not have been tolerated in most other instances. This type of response is overkill, I would say even with a large drug load, but certainly with the tiny amountfound used to justify the incredible amount of force applied.

Yes, I realize it's knowledge they didn't have going in, and that's precisely the problem. They took a chance on very slim evidence, and now that they did that they take the usual tact of disclaiming any sort of responsibility for that obvious mistake.

wstfld

OK, I'm keeping this just to the actions of the SWAT team not what or how they knew what they were going into.

You really think this is too much force?

They put down two animals that would have caused a problem and detained the suspect. That to me is a picture perfect run.

What part do you see as overkill?

Right, the blame should not be with SWAT but the intelligence gatherers

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="m0zart"]

I consider it a gross mistake and overstatement to bust into a home and shoot someone's pets over a tiny bit of Marijuana, which is itselfthe result of amistake (and a gross injustice)on the part ofthe legal system andSWAT teams to act on information passed in most of the time anonymously with little other evidence.

This particular incident is just one of many that happen on a regular basis in the United States around our insane State and Federal Drug Laws, most of which enable acts that would not have been tolerated in most other instances. This type of response is overkill, I would say even with a large drug load, but certainly with the tiny amountfound used to justify the incredible amount of force applied.

Yes, I realize it's knowledge they didn't have going in, and that's precisely the problem. They took a chance on very slim evidence, and now that they did that they take the usual tact of disclaiming any sort of responsibility for that obvious mistake.

wstfld

OK, I'm keeping this just to the actions of the SWAT team not what or how they knew what they were going into.

You really think this is too much force?

They put down two animals that would have caused a problem and detained the suspect. That to me is a picture perfect run.

What part do you see as overkill?

See but again we're blurring the lines between how they got there and then what they did when they got there.

You can argue that the SWAT team wasn't needed but once you call in the SWAT team and say "we need you to neutralize this target" then they have to be on their A game, in their profession they can't go up to a building and say "well I don't know guys, looks pretty quiet, they have the Golden Girls on"

They'd die one after aother if that were the case.

Also for those who argue "it was only a little bit of weed" again taking their intelligence into account for all they knew he could have been an armed drug dealer. They didn't know he was only going to have a little bit of weed. If there's anyone you should be angry with it should be the intelligence gathers, not the SWAT team.

bacon_is_sweet

This is how I see it as well

The SWAT team performed admirably in this situation, with a child involved that could have been ugly

If there's any fault to throw around it's the people who had the info and even that's not clear cut if they made the wrong decision because we don't know all the info they were given

OK, I'm keeping this just to the actions of the SWAT team not what or how they knew what they were going into.

You really think this is too much force?

They put down two animals that would have caused a problem and detained the suspect. That to me is a picture perfect run.

What part do you see as overkill?

Jaysonguy

Do I think busting into someone's home, killing their animals, and basically shaking up their lives over a tiny amount of illegal substances is overkill? Yes, you bet I do.

There shouldn't have been a "run" to begin with in this scenario. It's clear they were expecting much MUCH more that they believed would justify this use of force and simply didn't find it. It's a "policy" to kill animals, even pets, in cases like this for many SWAT teams, but policy itself never answers to the justification for such overwhelming force, it just begs the question.

Simple fact here -- they either went in expecting a lot more and applied an extreme amount of force, or they went in knowing there was very little and applied an extreme amount of force. Either way, they are guilty of applying unnecessary force for an extremely minor offense, and should be expected to take responsibility for this regardless of how much they knew going in. And by responsibility, I don't mean relying on their unjust legal impunity for this sort of extremism, as that sort of indulgence for law enforcement and our courts has contributed to the current state in which moral justifications can be confused for legal policies.

How do we know this was over a gram of weed? Nothing in the video suggests that, I heard they had a search warrant for narcotics, but never an amount. Anyone have a link about the story, I'm curious. Maniacc1

Freaking pigslegend26

I hope they get tortured, **** ****.BattleTurtles

Time to kill those ********xfactor19990

I hope they die. Animals don't deserve that kind of crap from idiots with guns.cmpepper23

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty -(Cut)rzepak

There is something horribly wrong with this topic.

Seems like many people didn't actually watch the video, or read the article, and a lot of the responses seem completely disproportionate to what happened. So many people just leapt to the conclusion that the police were evil, but at a level that makes me think you guys assume they're child-murderers in disguise.

Wait, I take that last comment back. As others have pointed out, some of the same people posting terrible things here, found the murder of children in a seperate thread to be a subject of humour.

Heck, the problems not just with this topic, it's with a lot of the OT community now. The hatred and intolerance seen in some of these threads simply doesn't match up with my memories of this place. I just don't understand...

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

OK, I'm keeping this just to the actions of the SWAT team not what or how they knew what they were going into.

You really think this is too much force?

They put down two animals that would have caused a problem and detained the suspect. That to me is a picture perfect run.

What part do you see as overkill?

m0zart

Do I think busting into someone's home, killing their animals, and basically shaking up their lives over a tiny amount of illegal substances is overkill? Yes, you bet I do.

There shouldn't have been a "run" to begin with in this scenario. It's clear they were expecting much MUCH more that they believed would justify this use of force and simply didn't find it. It's a "policy" to kill animals, even pets, in cases like this for many SWAT teams, but policy itself never answers to the justification for such overwhelming force, it just begs the question.

Simple fact here -- they either went in expecting a lot more and applied an extreme amount of force, or they went in knowing there was very little and applied an extreme amount of force. Either way, they are guilty of applying unnecessary force for an extremely minor offense, and should be expected to take responsibility for this. And by responsibility, I don't mean relying on their unjust legal impunity for this sort of extremism, as that sort of indulgence for law enforcement and our courts has contributed to the current state in which moral justifications can be confused for legal policies.

As I said before we're blurring the lines between the orders the SWAT team had and the way the SWAT team acted once they were in the situation

The SWAT team were told they had to go in and neutralize the suspect. They went in and found two animals that could ONLY have caused problems either by barking, running away from the SWAT members or running toward the SWAT members. They were a danger to everyone there and had to be taken down. SWAT teams do not have the luxury to be reactive in these situations, they are 100% proactive by taking out any potential problems.

We can argue all night over "were they sent in with just cause?" but the SWAT team's actions were perfect, that's how I want them to always act.

You're saying they either found less resistance then they anticipated or they knew there was little and well all out and the thing is that SWAT members only have one speed, that's why they're used.

No SWAT team ever looks at a situation and says "ok, this looks like we need to only go 50%"

SWAT members need to go 100% every single minute or they're dead, you can't dial that back

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]How do we know this was over a gram of weed? Nothing in the video suggests that, I heard they had a search warrant for narcotics, but never an amount. Anyone have a link about the story, I'm curious. elblanquito_81

What a bunch of cowards. You have no honor or humanity if you are pointing guns at caged animals and children.

Another things that disturbs me greatly is that I have NEVER seen a topic on OT expressing outrage that a HUMAN BEING was wrongfully shot by the police. One Pitbull gets killed and OT is up in arms against the men that make sure they can sit safely in their homes and complain about being "mistreated" by the police.

STurn21

What a bunch of cowards. You have no honor or humanity if you are pointing guns at caged animals and children.

billnye69

I don't think the average person understands how stressful a SWAT officer's job is.

STurn21

Oh I think I can imagine how stressful it is. I also don't think that's completely relevant. A SWAT officer chose this for a career -- he took on a job in which he realized he would be applying incredible amounts of force to other individuals, possibly innocent individuals. He knew this going in. The ones who don't know going in are average Americans who can often be their victims. Sorry if "victim" seems a bit inflammatory here, but I really don't know of any other term to apply to the situation without playing games with words.

When those average people are indeed innocent of the specific crimes they are being swarmed for, or as in this case at the most guilty of a much smaller offense, rather than simply telling those individuals that they must grin and bare it because, well, "it's our policy", responsibility must be taken by the aggressors. "Thank you, drive thru" can never be an appropriate response to this kind of overwhelming force in these cases. If this is not the case, then we are not applying a true sense of justice.

I realize that some would be fearful that requiring this level of responsibility on judges, prosecutors, and law enforcement would make it more difficult for them to do their jobs, but I only see positives in that. The natural result of such a forcing of responsibility in law enforcement and the legal system would be that officials entrusted with these powers would be far more likely to make certain of their suspicions before acting, and it would certainly hold a Government ever intent on expanding an unjust war on its own population from going in that direction unnecessarily.

There's stress on both sides in situations like these. Feeling for the cops involved so completely and absolutely has the obvious effect of writing off the trauma and stress experienced by the victims.

Another things that disturbs me greatly is that I have NEVER seen a topic on OT expressing outrage that a HUMAN BEING was wrongfully shot by the police. One Pitbull gets killed and OT is up in arms against the men that make sure they can sit safely in their homes and complain about being "mistreated" by the police.

STurn21

So true. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some of the posters here would save an unknown cat or dog from a burning building, but then leave the 8 year old kid behind!

Another things that disturbs me greatly is that I have NEVER seen a topic on OT expressing outrage that a HUMAN BEING was wrongfully shot by the police. One Pitbull gets killed and OT is up in arms against the men that make sure they can sit safely in their homes and complain about being "mistreated" by the police.

STurn21

[QUOTE="billnye69"]

What a bunch of cowards. You have no honor or humanity if you are pointing guns at caged animals and children.

STurn21

Stop making things up.

I hate weapons, anyone using a gun for any reason is a coward. If you need a gun to feel powerful and in control of other people, you're a piece of garbage. My opinion, don't like it......tough.

[QUOTE="STurn21"]

[QUOTE="billnye69"]

What a bunch of cowards. You have no honor or humanity if you are pointing guns at caged animals and children.

billnye69

Stop making things up.

I hate weapons, anyone using a gun for any reason is a coward. If you need a gun to feel powerful and in control of other people, you're a piece of garbage. My opinion, don't like it......tough.

So you think a SWAT team should just use loud voices and stern looks

Really?

[QUOTE="legend26"]

[QUOTE="cmpepper23"]I hope they die. Animals don't deserve that kind of crap from idiots with guns.Nagru

The SWAT team needs to be executed for their sheer stupidity, cruelty -(Cut)rzepak

There is something horribly wrong with this topic.

Seems like many people didn't actually watch the video, or read the article, and a lot of the responses seem completely disproportionate to what happened. So many people just leapt to the conclusion that the police were evil, but at a level that makes me think you guys assume they're child-murderers in disguise.

Wait, I take that last comment back. As others have pointed out, some of the same people posting terrible things here, found the murder of children in a seperate thread to be a subject of humour.

Heck, the problems not just with this topic, it's with a lot of the OT community now. The hatred and intolerance seen in some of these threads simply doesn't match up with my memories of this place. I just don't understand...

Agreed most of those comments are really messed up.

[QUOTE="billnye69"]

What a bunch of cowards. You have no honor or humanity if you are pointing guns at caged animals and children.

elblanquito_81

I just hate weapons like crazy.

[QUOTE="STurn21"]

[QUOTE="billnye69"]

What a bunch of cowards. You have no honor or humanity if you are pointing guns at caged animals and children.

Stop making things up.

I hate weapons, anyone using a gun for any reason is a coward. If you need a gun to feel powerful and in control of other people, you're a piece of garbage. My opinion, don't like it......tough.

[QUOTE="elblanquito_81"]

[QUOTE="billnye69"]

What a bunch of cowards. You have no honor or humanity if you are pointing guns at caged animals and children.

billnye69

I just hate weapons like crazy.

Are you serious, what are you suggesting they do then? Have a pillow fight?

[QUOTE="billnye69"]

[QUOTE="STurn21"]

Stop making things up.

bruinfan617

I hate weapons, anyone using a gun for any reason is a coward. If you need a gun to feel powerful and in control of other people, you're a piece of garbage. My opinion, don't like it......tough.

Police have tons of non-lethal weapons these days, they are also trained in many types of martial arts. They don't need guns.