The Gamespot Gun Control Debate

guns dont kill ppl ppl kill pplbobcheeseball

by this logic, Americans are just evil, if gun is not the problem and people is, then surely American are more evil than Canadians, Australian, New Zealanders, British, Japanese, Chinese, Danish, Finnish, Icelander, Irish, German, French, Italian, Spanish.

As shown by the significantly higher gun homicide rate, yes it must be the people, highest gun ownership rate, well, that statistic is just a coincidence

[QUOTE="DanteSuikoden"]

[QUOTE="C_Rule"]Ah.... Yeah... That's kinda the point. Sure, you can easily kill someone with a knife, but easily kill 20+ people before someone disarms you? Yeah... Not likely.-RocBoys9489-

Why do you assume the person will use a knife? A person can rack up a +20 bodycount taking a chaotic joyride in a moving car that shields them. Would you blame the car for that or the sick person operating it?

I'm sure if they wanted a police state they'd have one in a matter of hours.Yusuke420

Explain how gun ownership is going to stop a team like Seal 6 from devastating you if they so deemed fit. It sounds like a very false sense of security because they have plenty of things you dont have (riot gear, shields, explosives, tear gas, etc.) not to mention the extensive vehicular weaponry. You'd stand no chance in a full scale government take over.

Yusuke420

[QUOTE="DanteSuikoden"]

[QUOTE="C_Rule"]Ah.... Yeah... That's kinda the point. Sure, you can easily kill someone with a knife, but easily kill 20+ people before someone disarms you? Yeah... Not likely.mattisgod01

Why do you assume the person will use a knife? A person can rack up a +20 bodycount taking a chaotic joyride in a moving car that shields them. Would you blame the car for that or the sick person operating it?

Would you rather face a guy with a knife or a gun? would you feel more able to evade a car or a bullet?

Depends on the situation, nowhere to run or hide? Am I against a person that can overpower me? I guess in the situation where they'll for certain harm me with the weapon I'd rather it be a gun as it would be less painful than a stab. If there is a chance I can escape or overpower the person I personally like my odds either way. As you can see it all depends on the situation and there's a lot to consider. Same with evading a car or a bullet.

What we really need is to raise awareness of the signs of mental illness ... and reform in the mental health care system. Meinhard1

gun is a part of the problem, or else you'd have to argue American have significantly more (many times more) mentally ill violent people per capita than any other western country in the world.

More awareness on mental health is a good argument, a factor, but that's not all there is to it.

Training
Licensing
Registration of 'all' firearms
Mandatory re-testing every ~5y on weapon handling/saftey(part of initial training)
Better background checks, psychological checks (once every 5y)
*Maybe a limit on firearm / ammunition purchases*
Legalize cannabis, needless source of crime
Big focus on mental health issues
Rethink our prison system in general
[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"]No, no...NO. The 2nd amendment is the basis for protection of freedom and liberty. Without it, it will leave the government with more power to oppress the people with their already ridiculous military might and/or leave the country more vulnerable to attack.Inconsistancy

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

Training
Licensing
Registration of 'all' firearms
Mandatory re-testing every ~5y on weapon handling/saftey(part of initial training)
Better background checks, psychological checks (once every 5y)
*Maybe a limit on firearm / ammunition purchases*
Legalize cannabis, needless source of crime
Big focus on mental health issues
Rethink our prison system in general
[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"]No, no...NO. The 2nd amendment is the basis for protection of freedom and liberty. Without it, it will leave the government with more power to oppress the people with their already ridiculous military might and/or leave the country more vulnerable to attack.-RocBoys9489-

"Don't do anything, unless we can do everything perfectly!" :roll:

Our homicide rate is 3-4x higher than Europe, we can do 'something'

And what's this not wanting 'reasonable' regulation? You don't want anyone to take any toys away from 'you'?

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"][QUOTE="DanteSuikoden"]

Why do you assume the person will use a knife? A person can rack up a +20 bodycount taking a chaotic joyride in a moving car that shields them. Would you blame the car for that or the sick person operating it?

Inconsistancy

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

Training
Licensing
Registration of 'all' firearms
Mandatory re-testing every ~5y on weapon handling/saftey(part of initial training)
Better background checks, psychological checks (once every 5y)
*Maybe a limit on firearm / ammunition purchases*
Legalize cannabis, needless source of crime
Big focus on mental health issues
Rethink our prison system in general
[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"]No, no...NO. The 2nd amendment is the basis for protection of freedom and liberty. Without it, it will leave the government with more power to oppress the people with their already ridiculous military might and/or leave the country more vulnerable to attack.-RocBoys9489-

but you are a developed country, every developed nation on earth has far less gun homicide rate than you, there must be a reason, yes, people die everyday. A country that doesn't make it a goal to consistently question its current conditions doesn't deserve to be called a country. There's every reason to question, especially when you have the worst statistics of the bunch.

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"][QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]
Gun control != all out gun ban. :roll:Inconsistancy

"Don't do anything, unless we can do everything perfectly!" :roll:

Our homicide rate is 3-4x higher than Europe, we can do 'something'

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

They have Tanks, Drones, and B-2 Bombers with **** that will level an entire city, but you believe that gun ownership is a counter to this? Get real british military might was no where near what America has at it's disposal, also the British were used to fighting a "civilized war" and the revolusionists caught them off guard with guerilla warfare. It's apple to oranges.

thegerg

Thats funny because I could of swore that the majority of the tyranical governments out there in the past century were not just done on the shoulders of the people in popular support.. But used a secret police force and rampant use of propaganda in which they divided and conquered the population.. Since when would they need to invade their own country with tanks or mass carpet bombs?

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"] Imagine a person driving Dodge Ram through a crowd of dozens in a downtown city area; the media would have a **** show trying to ban large, heavy vehicles LOL-RocBoys9489-

then you'd have to explain why every developed nation on earth, and developed nations such as China and India do not have near the homicide rate as USA, because according to your logic, knife would just replace guns, and the same amount of people would have been murdered anyway, yet statistics don't support this.

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"][QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]
Gun control != all out gun ban. :roll:

Ncsoftlover

but you are a developed country, every developed nation on earth has far less gun homicide rate than you, there must be a reason, yes, people die everyday. A country that doesn't make it a goal to consistently question its current conditions doesn't deserve to be called a country. There's every reason to question, especially when you have the worst statistics of the bunch.

[QUOTE="Ncsoftlover"]

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"] Gun control wouldn't have changed the outcome of today; who cares, PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY! GET OVER IT! We're not gonna fix people dying unnecessarily every day people. What about the genocide in Africa?! Why don't we give that 24/7 media attention?! We are the world police after all, let's go fix that while we're at it. What happened today at that school is NOTHING compared to the rest of the world. Stop living in fear people, carry on and appreciate this sinking ship while we're still on it.-RocBoys9489-

but you are a developed country, every developed nation on earth has far less gun homicide rate than you, there must be a reason, yes, people die everyday. A country that doesn't make it a goal to consistently question its current conditions doesn't deserve to be called a country. There's every reason to question, especially when you have the worst statistics of the bunch.

I don't care about American dream, that's a joke considering your relative low social mobility compared to many other nations. I just want to claim that you are classified as a developed nation by most measures (GDP per capita, life expectancy, education, literacy, globalization, economic freedom, justice/law etc) yet one of the major difference is that you are many times higher homicide rate compared to those other developed nations (who are also in debt by the way), so figuring out what caused the difference (lax gun laws possibily being one of them) is rather important.

Explain how gun ownership is going to stop a team like Seal 6 from devastating you if they so deemed fit. It sounds like a very false sense of security because they have plenty of things you dont have (riot gear, shields, explosives, tear gas, etc.) not to mention the extensive vehicular weaponry. You'd stand no chance in a full scale government take over.

Yusuke420

One person, no. But when you have millions of gun owners across the country, that changes the situation.

[QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"][QUOTE="Ncsoftlover"]

but you are a developed country, every developed nation on earth has far less gun homicide rate than you, there must be a reason, yes, people die everyday. A country that doesn't make it a goal to consistently question its current conditions doesn't deserve to be called a country. There's every reason to question, especially when you have the worst statistics of the bunch.

Ncsoftlover

I don't care about American dream, that's a joke considering your relative low social mobility compared to many other nations. I just want to claim that you are classified as a developed nation by most measures (GDP per capita, life expectancy, education, literacy, globalization, economic freedom, justice/law etc) yet one of the major difference is that you are many times higher homicide rate compared to those other developed nations (who are also in debt by the way), so figuring out what caused the difference (lax gun laws possibily being one of them) is rather important.

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"] Gun control wouldn't have changed the outcome of today; who cares, PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY! GET OVER IT! We're not gonna fix people dying unnecessarily every day people. What about the genocide in Africa?! Why don't we give that 24/7 media attention?! We are the world police after all, let's go fix that while we're at it. What happened today at that school is NOTHING compared to the rest of the world. Stop living in fear people, carry on and appreciate this sinking ship while we're still on it.-RocBoys9489-

"Don't do anything, unless we can do everything perfectly!" :roll:

Our homicide rate is 3-4x higher than Europe, we can do 'something'

this claim is true enough, fix you "punishment only" no rehablitation justice, legalize some drugs, improve social welfare system, improve education and awareness and public fundung for mental health care problems, those are all valid. Those are all potential factors contributing to the higher homicide rate, no doubt about it. But gun, is one among many of the factors, you just can't exclude it altogether, it is a problem.

I'll let Penn & Teller do my debating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXOuuHcjbs

It's hilarious to boot!

I don't care about American dream, that's a joke considering your relative low social mobility compared to many other nations. I just want to claim that you are classified as a developed nation by most measures (GDP per capita, life expectancy, education, literacy, globalization, economic freedom, justice/law etc) yet one of the major difference is that you are many times higher homicide rate compared to those other developed nations (who are also in debt by the way), so figuring out what caused the difference (lax gun laws possibily being one of them) is rather important.

Ncsoftlover

I say look at Switzerland. You can write them off as the exception and not the rule but you can't deny that they're doing something right. I think this whole problem lies with the type of people found in America but I think it'll do more good than harm to emulate Switzerland's policies.

The problem with banning guns is that it just escalates the problem. If somebody wants to attain a gun bad enough they will, it's really that simple. Look at the war on drugs, it's a complete failure. It has created violence (cartels, turf wars) while allowing the government to dictate what people can and cannot put into their own bodies, while at the same time actually convincing the people that that's something they should want "The government should be allowed to tell me what I can put into my own body! They know what is best for me!"

It's flawed. The government cannot solve this problem, only the people can. By banning and making it harder to attain guns legally we would only make more people defenseless, because they are still going to be attained illegally. The only way that we are going to solve this problem in my opinion is by strengthening the people. Train teachers on self defense and on how to use guns, have them carry weapons so that when a moron wants to walk into the school and shoot everybody up they at least have some line of defense to protect the children.

Train more people on gun defense and give them guns to proect themselves. That is what is going to be the real solution here.

I'd rather they not exist at all any more. You'd think in a civilized society we would have evolved to a point were weapons were no long nessesary. We should be able to communicate about things and resolve all conficts without bloodshed. I get back in the day we had to fight over resources, but why do we continue to have all of this confrontation and anger towards other living human beings?

Yusuke420

The states should decide their own gun control policies without the interference of the federal government. Also there are multiple factors that go a long way that can make someone do this and, to my knowledge, Connecticut seems to have a low violent crime rate. If Connecticut wishes to adopt more gun control laws, fine by me. If my state wishes to adopt more gun control laws, that would depend on the situation at hand.

[QUOTE="Ncsoftlover"]

I don't care about American dream, that's a joke considering your relative low social mobility compared to many other nations. I just want to claim that you are classified as a developed nation by most measures (GDP per capita, life expectancy, education, literacy, globalization, economic freedom, justice/law etc) yet one of the major difference is that you are many times higher homicide rate compared to those other developed nations (who are also in debt by the way), so figuring out what caused the difference (lax gun laws possibily being one of them) is rather important.

DanteSuikoden

I say look at Switzerland. You can write them off as the exception and not the rule but you can't deny that they're doing something right. I think this whole problem lies with the type of people found in America but I think it'll do more good than harm to emulate Switzerland's policies.

I agree, with this many gun already around, it might be more realistic to emulate their policy, which I might mention, would mean stricter gun control law as well, (even if they're more relaxed than most other countries).

Switzerland is no exception to the rule, if you look at the list I provided, Switzerland, out of all developed nation, has clearly the second highest gun death rate, most of this death rate is suicide, but its worth noting that at 0.58/100000, their gun homicide rate is still higher than a lot of other countries with strict gun control. You surely know that Swiss people are very civilized and well behaved, the gap between the rich/poor, their justice system, the social welfare system all are far superior to what US has to offer. I would argue, with more strict gun laws, Switzerland can do even better with homicide rate, possibly one of the lowest in the world. they're doing good now, thanks to good behavior of the people, but Switzerland is certainly not the ultimate success story, and it's not like they have anywhere close to the gun ownership rate of the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

So thus thread is basically: should we fuk up the constitution for or against?Lordofinternet

The Constitution also said that a black person was 3/5th of a person. :| Our founders created the Constitution as something that can be edited, added on, depending on the time. I don't mean to discredit the Constitution. It's a fine piece of work that protected the individual from a tyrannical government or even a tyrannical majority by giving each person a set of basic rights such as freedom of speech, right to fair trail, having an attorney present, etc as well as gun rights.

I support gun rights but those advocating gun control aren't messing with the Constitution.

So thus thread is basically:

should we fuk up the constitution

for or against?

Lordofinternet

The states should decide their own gun control policies without the interference of the federal government. Also there are multiple factors that go a long way that can make someone do this and, to my knowledge, Connecticut seems to have a low violent crime rate. If Connecticut wishes to adopt more gun control laws, fine by me. If my state wishes to adopt more gun control laws, that would depend on the situation at hand.

leviathan91

It's just scary to think that some people believe that cops and soldiers should be the only ones with guns.thegerg

Why is it scary?

I dont believe peopel should be able to own guns or have abortions or vote.

How accepting is Switzerland of immigrants from african decent (lay terms how do they feel about black people) seems like an awesome alturnative to the crazy we have to deal with in the states.

[QUOTE="thegerg"]It's just scary to think that some people believe that cops and soldiers should be the only ones with guns.nunovlopes

Why is it scary?

There have been more than a few times throughout history where the state has taken control of its people and its law (rather than the other way around) through the use of violence. While it is highly unlikely and not going to happen in the foreseeable future, that is little reason to be willfully unprepared for such an event. thegerg

But with the US military being as it is, do you think poorly organized citizens armed with guns could do anything about it? It's gotten to a point where it would be like people fighting with sticks. Whoever controls the military holds all the power.

Explain how gun ownership is going to stop a team like Seal 6 from devastating you if they so deemed fit. It sounds like a very false sense of security because they have plenty of things you dont have (riot gear, shields, explosives, tear gas, etc.) not to mention the extensive vehicular weaponry. You'd stand no chance in a full scale government take over.

Yusuke420

How about this?, Handguns, Hunting rifles and Shotguns you can buy and own if you have a permit. SMG's, Assault Rifles and Machineguns are for law enforcement and military.Treflis

Yes................. Ban the things that account for less than %5 of all gun crimes, problem solved.

The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with shooting robbers or hunting.

It's quite apparent that the toughest gun laws don't actually work. Perhaps we need to try something different. Without taking away peoples freedoms.

[QUOTE="Treflis"]How about this?, Handguns, Hunting rifles and Shotguns you can buy and own if you have a permit. SMG's, Assault Rifles and Machineguns are for law enforcement and military.DJ419

Yes................. Ban the things that account for less than %5 of all gun crimes, problem solved.

The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with shooting robbers or hunting.

[QUOTE="thegerg"]There have been more than a few times throughout history where the state has taken control of its people and its law (rather than the other way around) through the use of violence. While it is highly unlikely and not going to happen in the foreseeable future, that is little reason to be willfully unprepared for such an event. nunovlopes

But with the US military being as it is, do you think poorly organized citizens armed with guns could do anything about it? It's gotten to a point where it would be like people fighting with sticks. Whoever controls the military holds all the power.

How many U.S. soldiers do you think are willing to go war with their fellow american's?

Look no further than Afghanistan. Small groups of unorganized people have defended themselves with old rusty guns from the U.S. and the Soviet Union. Modern militarys still are not equipped properly to fight guerilla warfare.

Just my opinion.. People are generally stupid. Stupid people should not be allowed to posess something that quickly and efficiently kill someone. Putting all these shootings on some crazies isnt good enough for me and hasnt done anything to stop them. Countries with capable governments and strict gun laws dont have these problems.

Giving up the right to own guns, which have no other use besides killing, is worth seeing no more innocents dead. And if not outright banning, I cant see how anyone could argue against making gun restrictions much stricter.

[QUOTE="DaJuicyMan"]

Just my opinion.. People are generally stupid. Stupid people should not be allowed to posess something that quickly and efficiently kill someone. Putting all these shootings on some crazies isnt good enough for me and hasnt done anything to stop them. Countries with capable governments and strict gun laws dont have these problems.

Giving up the right to own guns, which have no other use besides killing, is worth seeing no more innocents dead. And if not outright banning, I cant see how anyone could argue against making gun restrictions much stricter.

thegerg

[QUOTE="DaJuicyMan"]

Just my opinion.. People are generally stupid. Stupid people should not be allowed to posess something that quickly and efficiently kill someone. Putting all these shootings on some crazies isnt good enough for me and hasnt done anything to stop them. Countries with capable governments and strict gun laws dont have these problems.

Giving up the right to own guns, which have no other use besides killing, is worth seeing no more innocents dead. And if not outright banning, I cant see how anyone could argue against making gun restrictions much stricter.

thegerg