The Gamespot Gun Control Debate

Whoa, okay I have alot to respond to and have work in the morning so I'll try to wrap this up.

First, guy who said swimming pools are as dangerous as guns.... As creative of an answer that was, it seems stupid to me to say pools are as dangerous as guns.

airshocker: I agree people will kill eachother with anything, my point was making it way more difficult or illegal to obtain these extremely efficient killing machines, is a good idea. Countries with capable governments and strict gun control don't have these problems in the droves we do. The point these guys were arguing was that guns have a useful purpose outside of killing, not so much gun control.

To everyone: This whole "bad things will happen no matter what" attitude is defeatist and unacceptable to me, not every sensible thing that could possibly prevent these things from happening has been tried yet.

It all goes back to the point I've made over and over. Guns were invented to kill, they serve no other useful, necessary purpose that cannot be adequately done by something else, and them being as available as they are now is not working, obviously as demonsrated today and tons of other times in recent years.

Whoa, okay I have alot to respond to and have work in the morning so I'll try to wrap this up.

DaJuicyMan

Guns should only be owned by government appointed soldiers.

sonicare

Yikes! When did that ever end good?

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Guns should only be owned by government appointed soldiers.

DJ419

Yikes! When did that ever end good?

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Guns should only be owned by government appointed soldiers.

DJ419

Yikes! When did that ever end good?

Pretty sure that was sarcasm... I hope...

We should all take up archery instead. It's the only solution to this madness.

We should all take up archery instead. It's the only solution to this madness.

soulless4now

The only solution to this madness is to realize that bad people will do bad things and there's absolutely nothing we can do that will mitigate the effects of those actions completely.

If we ban guns only criminals will have them.

If we add more gun control legislation it'll make it even worse for those of us who own our weapons legally.

The vast majority of gun owners don't commit crimes with their weapons. I don't see where we deserve to be punished because of people who break the law. It would be akin to banning baseball because somebody murdered another person with a bat.

The gun laws in the US are working well as usual I see.SolidSnake35

As I have just found out, the killer didn't purchase the weapons he used to kill these people. So the gun laws had nothing to do with it.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]The gun laws in the US are working well as usual I see.airshocker

As I have just found out, the killer didn't purchase the weapons he used to kill these people. So the gun laws had nothing to do with it.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]The gun laws in the US are working well as usual I see.SolidSnake35

As I have just found out, the killer didn't purchase the weapons he used to kill these people. So the gun laws had nothing to do with it.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]The gun laws in the US are working well as usual I see.SolidSnake35

As I have just found out, the killer didn't purchase the weapons he used to kill these people. So the gun laws had nothing to do with it.

Connecticut has some of the most strict gun control laws in the entire United States. I'm not really sure how you've come to the conclusion that all Americans live in a society where guns are worshipped. I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume you've based that on nothing. Mental illness is not caused by gun friendly societies. Also, your deflection skills could use a little work.

The killer grew up in a society where guns are thrown around willy nilly. In the UK, the idea of someone pulling a gun on you belongs in a Hollywood movie. You guys are too blase with guns to the point where everyone and their mother has one. That's depressing.SolidSnake35

Proven wrong, throws around horsesh*t. :lol:

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]The killer grew up in a society where guns are thrown around willy nilly. In the UK, the idea of someone pulling a gun on you belongs in a Hollywood movie. You guys are too blase with guns to the point where everyone and their mother has one. That's depressing.airshocker

Proven wrong, throws around horsesh*t. :lol:

Didn't prove anything. My point is that guns are legal in the US and that's how he obtained the weapons. I don't care whether he bought them or not. He found them because guns are everywhere. Hardly surprising to see all these killings.SolidSnake35

You said "gun control laws working as usual" or some such when this had nothing to do with gun control laws. Stealing your mothers guns has nothing to do with gun control. It has more to do with bad housekeeping than anything else.

Then you proceeded to write some tripe(and continue to) that has no basis in fact, as you usually do in any thread about gun related crimes or gun control. Thus my statement comes into play.

I hope you enjoyed this as much as I have.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]Didn't prove anything. My point is that guns are legal in the US and that's how he obtained the weapons. I don't care whether he bought them or not. He found them because guns are everywhere. Hardly surprising to see all these killings.airshocker

You said "gun control laws working as usual" or some such when this had nothing to do with gun control laws. Stealing your mothers guns has nothing to do with gun control. It has more to do with bad housekeeping than anything else.

Then you proceeded to write some tripe(and continue to) that has no basis in fact, as you usually do in any thread about gun related crimes or gun control. Thus my statement comes into play.

I hope you enjoyed this as much as I have.

[QUOTE="DJ419"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Guns should only be owned by government appointed soldiers.

Vari3ty

Yikes! When did that ever end good?

Pretty sure that was sarcasm... I hope...

there could be something to be said about mandatory training that would drive home the concept of keeping your gun in a safeAbbeten

The training that happens in my county covers keeping your weapons locked up and out of reach.

Do we even know if this mother left her weapons laying around?

[QUOTE="thegerg"]All I have to say is that I'm all about some gun control, but an outright ban is just silly. It's just scary to think that some people believe that cops and soldiers should be the only ones with guns.TacticalDesire

Well I agree. I think wait periods, background checks etc are smart, and I have no problem with strict regulation. Banning is silly and also at this point highly unrealistic.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]The gun laws in the US are working well as usual I see.SolidSnake35

As I have just found out, the killer didn't purchase the weapons he used to kill these people. So the gun laws had nothing to do with it.

Explain how gun ownership is going to stop a team like Seal 6 from devastating you if they so deemed fit. It sounds like a very false sense of security because they have plenty of things you dont have (riot gear, shields, explosives, tear gas, etc.) not to mention the extensive vehicular weaponry. You'd stand no chance in a full scale government take over.

Yusuke420

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

Explain how gun ownership is going to stop a team like Seal 6 from devastating you if they so deemed fit. It sounds like a very false sense of security because they have plenty of things you dont have (riot gear, shields, explosives, tear gas, etc.) not to mention the extensive vehicular weaponry. You'd stand no chance in a full scale government take over.

MrGeezer

Remember when we tried to get rid of alcohol?

Remember when we tried to get rid of alcohol?

DanteSuikoden

[QUOTE="DanteSuikoden"]

Remember when we tried to get rid of alcohol?

Inconsistancy

It's a good example though, dude... Prohibition failed miserably. Crime rates went through the roof, and it was a huge f*ck up. I understand guns and alcohol are two totally different things. But installing a gun ban/heavier control now.... How would that even work? Turn in your guns at the local town office? There are already too many in the people's hands. The war on drugs isnt working either. Making drugs illegal and this draconian system have made it worse.

I honestly dont have a strong opinion on either end. Heavier control is known to cause great illegal activity. But right now, this sh*t aint working, either.

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"]There have been more than a few times throughout history where the state has taken control of its people and its law (rather than the other way around) through the use of violence. While it is highly unlikely and not going to happen in the foreseeable future, that is little reason to be willfully unprepared for such an event. thegerg

But with the US military being as it is, do you think poorly organized citizens armed with guns could do anything about it? It's gotten to a point where it would be like people fighting with sticks. Whoever controls the military holds all the power.

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="DanteSuikoden"]

Remember when we tried to get rid of alcohol?

Shmiity

It's a good example though, dude... Prohibition failed miserably. Crime rates went through the roof, and it was a huge f*ck up. I understand guns and alcohol are two totally different things. But installing a gun ban/heavier control now.... How would that even work? Turn in your guns at the local town office? There are already too many in the people's hands. The war on drugs isnt working either. Making drugs illegal and this draconian system have made it worse.

I honestly dont have a strong opinion on either end. Heavier control is known to cause great illegal activity. But right now, this sh*t aint working, either.

Recreation/untold violence aint a compaison worth making. Kids pop pills up their ass every friday and saturday night - the impulsive will to shoot your mother?................................ well that's probably just on the comedown,

EDIT: The point is prohibition does work when it comes to guns.

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"] Remember what happened when people put laws regarding the sale, and consumption, of alcohol to minors? Oh, yea... that's the right thing to do 'reasonable regulation'. Gun control doesn't necessarily = gun bans.poptart

It's a good example though, dude... Prohibition failed miserably. Crime rates went through the roof, and it was a huge f*ck up. I understand guns and alcohol are two totally different things. But installing a gun ban/heavier control now.... How would that even work? Turn in your guns at the local town office? There are already too many in the people's hands. The war on drugs isnt working either. Making drugs illegal and this draconian system have made it worse.

I honestly dont have a strong opinion on either end. Heavier control is known to cause great illegal activity. But right now, this sh*t aint working, either.

Recreation/untold violence aint a compaison worth making. Kids pop pills up their ass every friday and saturday night - the impulsive will to shoot your mother?................................ well that's probably just on the comedown,

EDIT: The point is prohibition does work when it comes to guns.

I understand what youre saying- but there are already so many guns, and it is so easy to get a gun in general- by any means- so what can actually be done to ban guns?

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

It's a good example though, dude... Prohibition failed miserably. Crime rates went through the roof, and it was a huge f*ck up. I understand guns and alcohol are two totally different things. But installing a gun ban/heavier control now.... How would that even work? Turn in your guns at the local town office? There are already too many in the people's hands. The war on drugs isnt working either. Making drugs illegal and this draconian system have made it worse.

I honestly dont have a strong opinion on either end. Heavier control is known to cause great illegal activity. But right now, this sh*t aint working, either.

Shmiity

Recreation/untold violence aint a compaison worth making. Kids pop pills up their ass every friday and saturday night - the impulsive will to shoot your mother?................................ well that's probably just on the comedown,

EDIT: The point is prohibition does work when it comes to guns.

I understand what youre saying- but there are already so many guns, and it is so easy to get a gun in general- by any means- so what can actually be done to ban guns?

There's already too many guns is akin to 'grrrrrrr it just seems a bit too difficult so lets not bother'. Gotta start somewhere. And is it easy to get guns? Not sure where you're from but in the UK and OZ I wouldn't know where to start. Anything else sure no worries, but guns - I'd have to delve into some pretty sketchy territory...

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

[QUOTE="poptart"]

Recreation/untold violence aint a compaison worth making. Kids pop pills up their ass every friday and saturday night - the impulsive will to shoot your mother?................................ well that's probably just on the comedown,

EDIT: The point is prohibition does work when it comes to guns.

poptart

I understand what youre saying- but there are already so many guns, and it is so easy to get a gun in general- by any means- so what can actually be done to ban guns?

There's already too many guns is akin to 'grrrrrrr it just seems a bit too difficult so lets not bother'. Gotta start somewhere. And is it easy to get guns? Not sure where you're from but in the UK and OZ I wouldn't know where to start. Anything else sure no worries, but guns - I'd have to delve into some pretty sketchy territory...

Guns in the USA are everywhere. You can get a license very easily, even in strict states. Even if you dont have a license, there are shooting ranges everywhere. There are 2-3 gun stores in my area, and I live up North to boot. Guns are incredibly easy to get in the USA, legally, and illegally. Because they exist in so many establishments.

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="DanteSuikoden"]

Remember when we tried to get rid of alcohol?

Shmiity

It's a good example though, dude... Prohibition failed miserably. Crime rates went through the roof, and it was a huge f*ck up. I understand guns and alcohol are two totally different things. But installing a gun ban/heavier control now.... How would that even work? Turn in your guns at the local town office? There are already too many in the people's hands. The war on drugs isnt working either. Making drugs illegal and this draconian system have made it worse.

I honestly dont have a strong opinion on either end. Heavier control is known to cause great illegal activity. But right now, this sh*t aint working, either.

cant brew guns in your bathtub.

yea, you make guns illegal and have people turn em in. Over the years people that refuse to turn em in get caught and firearms get confiscated... eventually civilian guns become virtually non existent.

I dont understand why its such a difficult concept to grasp for some. Gun violence is a relatively simple and easily solvable issue.

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

It's a good example though, dude... Prohibition failed miserably. Crime rates went through the roof, and it was a huge f*ck up. I understand guns and alcohol are two totally different things. But installing a gun ban/heavier control now.... How would that even work? Turn in your guns at the local town office? There are already too many in the people's hands. The war on drugs isnt working either. Making drugs illegal and this draconian system have made it worse.

I honestly dont have a strong opinion on either end. Heavier control is known to cause great illegal activity. But right now, this sh*t aint working, either.

Shmiity

Recreation/untold violence aint a compaison worth making. Kids pop pills up their ass every friday and saturday night - the impulsive will to shoot your mother?................................ well that's probably just on the comedown,

EDIT: The point is prohibition does work when it comes to guns.

I understand what youre saying- but there are already so many guns, and it is so easy to get a gun in general- by any means- so what can actually be done to ban guns?

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

I understand what youre saying- but there are already so many guns, and it is so easy to get a gun in general- by any means- so what can actually be done to ban guns?

Shmiity

There's already too many guns is akin to 'grrrrrrr it just seems a bit too difficult so lets not bother'. Gotta start somewhere. And is it easy to get guns? Not sure where you're from but in the UK and OZ I wouldn't know where to start. Anything else sure no worries, but guns - I'd have to delve into some pretty sketchy territory...

Guns in the USA are everywhere. You can get a license very easily, even in strict states. Even if you dont have a license, there are shooting ranges everywhere. There are 2-3 gun stores in my area, and I live up North to boot. Guns are incredibly easy to get in the USA, legally, and illegally. Because they exist in so many establishments.

My point is take those gun shops away and you'll find it harder to buy one. Drugs sure - easy to find whatever as it's driven by recreation and addiction. Guns not so much. Take it away and people really - really - won't find much a need to have one. If you haven't had the need for one previously then you'll take it or leave it. That's my spinach anyhoo ducky x

Why do people think someone who is willing to commit 26 counts of the worst crime possible would not break a gun law?

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

[QUOTE="poptart"]

There's already too many guns is akin to 'grrrrrrr it just seems a bit too difficult so lets not bother'. Gotta start somewhere. And is it easy to get guns? Not sure where you're from but in the UK and OZ I wouldn't know where to start. Anything else sure no worries, but guns - I'd have to delve into some pretty sketchy territory...

poptart

Guns in the USA are everywhere. You can get a license very easily, even in strict states. Even if you dont have a license, there are shooting ranges everywhere. There are 2-3 gun stores in my area, and I live up North to boot. Guns are incredibly easy to get in the USA, legally, and illegally. Because they exist in so many establishments.

My point is take those gun shops away and you'll find it harder to buy one. Drugs sure - easy to find whatever as it's driven by recreation and addiction. Guns not so much. Take it away and people really - really - won't find much a need to have one. If you haven't had the need for one previously then you'll take it or leave it. That's my spinach anyhoo ducky x

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"][QUOTE="thegerg"]Yes. The military (from my own experience) is full of the types of people that are opposed to their own rights being violated and will not obey an unlawful order. Of course there are still some brainwashed fools that will do anything someone wearing a few rockers tells them to, but they're hardly the majority.thegerg

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

Guns in the USA are everywhere. You can get a license very easily, even in strict states. Even if you dont have a license, there are shooting ranges everywhere. There are 2-3 gun stores in my area, and I live up North to boot. Guns are incredibly easy to get in the USA, legally, and illegally. Because they exist in so many establishments.

vfibsux

My point is take those gun shops away and you'll find it harder to buy one. Drugs sure - easy to find whatever as it's driven by recreation and addiction. Guns not so much. Take it away and people really - really - won't find much a need to have one. If you haven't had the need for one previously then you'll take it or leave it. That's my spinach anyhoo ducky x

'Thugs' would buy guns, but primarily to kill other 'thugs' - that's the way the world generally works. Here in Melbourne - circa 4 million people - you get the odd premeditated murder with a gun, however when it comes to the 'unarmed' being killed by those gun-wielding thugs you speak of, it just doesn't happen... or at least such is the rarity when it does it's fu*king massive. Delusion you speak of (driven by gun ownership propaganda) is alas to think that criminal overlords will suddenly start to shoot the innocent because they're unprotected.

[QUOTE="vfibsux"][QUOTE="poptart"]

My point is take those gun shops away and you'll find it harder to buy one. Drugs sure - easy to find whatever as it's driven by recreation and addiction. Guns not so much. Take it away and people really - really - won't find much a need to have one. If you haven't had the need for one previously then you'll take it or leave it. That's my spinach anyhoo ducky x

poptart

'Thugs' would buy guns, but primarily to kill other 'thugs' - that's the way the world generally works. Here in Melbourne - circa 4 million people - you get the odd premeditated murder with a gun, however when it comes to the 'unarmed' being killed by those gun-wielding thugs you speak of, it just doesn't happen... or at least such is the rarity when it does it's fu*king massive. Delusion you speak of (driven by gun ownership propaganda) is alas to think that criminal overlords will suddenly start to shoot the innocent because they're unprotected.

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="vfibsux"] You're delusional if you don't think street thugs would not still see the need for guns. So basically you just disarmed every law abiding citizen and made them fair game for the people who could care less for your laws.vfibsux

'Thugs' would buy guns, but primarily to kill other 'thugs' - that's the way the world generally works. Here in Melbourne - circa 4 million people - you get the odd premeditated murder with a gun, however when it comes to the 'unarmed' being killed by those gun-wielding thugs you speak of, it just doesn't happen... or at least such is the rarity when it does it's fu*king massive. Delusion you speak of (driven by gun ownership propaganda) is alas to think that criminal overlords will suddenly start to shoot the innocent because they're unprotected.

No you misread, I'm saying no one shoots each other because no one has a gun. Aside from those 'thugs' who on the odd occassion kill each other over the ownership of coke/smack/ice/whatever territory. Seriously no one gets shot in day to day life. I can walk down the street without a gun and not feel threatened or like a cu*t. Weird I know but true.

[QUOTE="vfibsux"][QUOTE="poptart"]

'Thugs' would buy guns, but primarily to kill other 'thugs' - that's the way the world generally works. Here in Melbourne - circa 4 million people - you get the odd premeditated murder with a gun, however when it comes to the 'unarmed' being killed by those gun-wielding thugs you speak of, it just doesn't happen... or at least such is the rarity when it does it's fu*king massive. Delusion you speak of (driven by gun ownership propaganda) is alas to think that criminal overlords will suddenly start to shoot the innocent because they're unprotected.

poptart

No you misread, I'm saying no one shoots each other because no one has a gun. Aside from those 'thugs' who on the odd occassion kill each other over the ownership of coke/smack/ice/whatever territory. Seriously no one gets shot in day to day life. I can walk down the street without a gun and not feel threatened or like a cu*t. Weird I know but true.

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="vfibsux"] So basically you are admitting that thugs shy away from the typical population because there is a chance they could be armed. Thanks. Explains why Washington DC became the murder capitol of the world AFTER handguns were made illegal. Thanks for proving my point.vfibsux

No you misread, I'm saying no one shoots each other because no one has a gun. Aside from those 'thugs' who on the odd occassion kill each other over the ownership of coke/smack/ice/whatever territory. Seriously no one gets shot in day to day life. I can walk down the street without a gun and not feel threatened or like a cu*t. Weird I know but true.

They use a knife instead that's all

It take a couple of bigger balls no less.

Stop getting it into your head that everyone will have guns - if you really want a gun you'll get one.

I'll say it again, the idea that guns make you safer is absurd. They don't. The higher the availability of guns, the more gun deaths there will be. Maybe in specific or individual cases they can protect, but if you look at the aggregate data, they don't. Countries that dont have accessible guns, have signficantly lower gun deaths. Now certainly that ignores a lot of other factors such as societal make up, etc, but the general point likely still stands.

But gun control isnt about whether they make you safer or not. It's about rights. There are lots of things that we do, that are bad for us and for others. At some point, we have to decide whether we want to be able to have that choice or have someone who "knows better" make it for us.

As a side note, these horrific sensational shootings are a negligible contribution to the number of gun deaths in the country per year. You'd have a similar chance of being killed by a shark attack, terrorist attack, or something along those lines. Most gun deaths happen in domestic violence, gang violence, etc. Most of the time the shooter knows the victim, and its not some random act of violence. Doesnt make it better, but perhaps gun control advocates should focus on that instead the rarer occurrences.