This is bullcrap. If this goes through, this will cause such an impact on the underground music scene that's already hurting so badly... So many of the successful underground bands I listen to are where they are BECAUSE of the internet MP3 download scene. And a lot of them promote music downloading vocally, telling people during interviews and/or telling the crowd on stage at a show things like "Go download our CD, and if you like it buy it... but you don't have to". A lot of of the sales that used to go to CDs has switched over to band merch, which further helps promote them by wearing their logo on your shirt/jacket in public, giving them some exposure. It's a snowball effect, and the record companies need to just get used to it because it's the future. Stop trying to get the government to start some law that takes more of our RIGHTS away from us.
This is bullcrap. If this goes through, this will cause such an impact on the underground music scene that's already hurting so badly... So many of the successful underground bands I listen to are where they are BECAUSE of the internet MP3 download scene. And a lot of them promote music downloading vocally, telling people during interviews and/or telling the crowd on stage at a show things like "Go download our CD, and if you like it buy it... but you don't have to". A lot of of the sales that used to go to CDs has switched over to band merch, which further helps promote them by wearing their logo on your shirt/jacket in public, giving them some exposure. It's a snowball effect, and the record companies need to just get used to it because it's the future. Stop trying to get the government to start some law that takes more of our RIGHTS away from us.Messiahbolical-
Those are two different things completely. Go listen to full albums on deezer, we7, amazon (previews only), go to their myspace, go on youtube. I have seen artists that gave torrents to their full CDs, that's not illegal at all. It's up to the artist, if they don't want to promote their stuff, too bad for them.
Hmm, if they do this whats to stop them from shutting down a p0rn site, or an anti-government site. Pirates were around before torrents and will just find a new protocol to use if torrent sites get attacked. It should be noted that there are web communities (which im not allowed to name) that have shown the ability to rally behind causes like this and fight back proactively with web attacks.
bloodling
I have no problem with them blocking child pornography. Blocking anti-government sites have nothing to do with this, and I'm pretty sure the government knows doing this would be shooting themselves in the foot. Whether or not people find another way is not important.
Child porn isn't even debatable, but I think he means regular adult porn.
my personal feeling is that the internet is one of the last remaining neutral, free areas people can meet and anonymously and conveniently discuss any thing they want, share ideas, and share other things.
The media can do what they wish provided it legal, but frankly the government should take a laissez faire attitude towards it, except for when a record company goes too far and tries to sue someone for 10k dollars for 50 songs; in that case, the government should defend the individual against cruel and unusual punishment.
The internet is one of those things we just have to take with a grain of salt.
Child porn isn't even debatable, but I think he means regular adult porn.
789shadow
Copyright infringements of porn? Why not ban these too?
What are you talking about, he's saying that it could lead to out-and-out banning of porn.
That is ridiculous. That's completely different, and I think it's pretty obvious that it doesn't. People who think porn should be banned are "mislead". I don't think it leads to that at all.
Copyright infringements of porn? Why not ban these too?
bloodling
What are you talking about, he's saying that it could lead to out-and-out banning of porn.
That is ridiculous. That's completely different, and I think it's pretty obvious that it doesn't. People who think porn should be banned are idiots. I don't think it leads to that at all.
I don't even know what you are talking about anyway, I just said it sounded like he thought the government would try to use it to block porn sites. :? Then you freaked out. People usually don't use "ridiculous" and "idiot" when calm.
I don't even know what you are talking about anyway, I just said it sounded like he thought the government would try to use it to block porn sites. :? Then you freaked out. People usually don't use "ridiculous" and "idiot" when calm.
789shadow
Perhaps you should rewrite it for me? How should I say it?
Honestly, with Obama preaching about how the internet and online communication are the future, I can't see him then allowing them to control what sites we can/cannot visit.
To those against this bill, would you agree with any move to prevent or punish piracy?
testfactor888
Nope I would not agree with any move honestly. I know where I stand on this issue but that is all I can say on the forums
Damn. I figured someone would say no, but I was hoping for a reason why. Whether it be simply "I want free stuff", or "the internet must remain unbound", or something better I haven't thought of.
I don't agree with punishing downloaders, either. That's just terribly wrong.bloodling
Why not though? A lot of crimes have some form of punishment attached, and I don't see why using the internet to do it negates anything.
I would agree that some of the punishments I've heard for those caught are insane though, just completely disproportionate. If their idea was to make an example of them, not only is that unjust IMO, it doesn't seem to have worked AT ALL.
To those against this bill, would you agree with any move to prevent or punish piracy?
Nagru
I wouldn't (for reasons l won't be sharing), but l would still object to internet filtering for any purpose, even for things l find despicable like child porn simply because such a system could be too easily abused. A far better system would simply to be monitor who accesses such sites and then charge them with whatever crime they're doing by visiting the site.
To those against this bill, would you agree with any move to prevent or punish piracy?
Gallion-Beast
I wouldn't (for reasons l won't be sharing), but l would still object to internet filtering for any purpose, even for things l find despicable like child porn simply because such a system could be too easily abused. A far better system would simply to be monitor who accesses such sites and then charge them with whatever crime they're doing by visiting the site. Tying up the courts sounds fun!:roll:
all in the name of preserving the social elite! It's funny how people think capitalism leads to the best good. When it's only interest is protect the few. What's sad is that for it to work they actually have to have the rest of the population believe its for the best, and they buy into it.EMOEVOLUTION
I can't remember the quality albums or games or movies that you created out of your supreme desire to entertain people. Would you please list them again? I forgot what they are.
To those against this bill, would you agree with any move to prevent or punish piracy?
DroidPhysX
I wouldn't (for reasons l won't be sharing), but l would still object to internet filtering for any purpose, even for things l find despicable like child porn simply because such a system could be too easily abused. A far better system would simply to be monitor who accesses such sites and then charge them with whatever crime they're doing by visiting the site. Tying up the courts sounds fun!:roll: Charging people who commit crimes is tying up the courts? :? Filtering websites wouldn't stop it anyway, there'd just be a higher reliance on lesser known peer to peer protocols.
[QUOTE="bloodling"]I don't agree with punishing downloaders, either. That's just terribly wrong.Nagru
Why not though? A lot of crimes have some form of punishment attached, and I don't see why using the internet to do it negates anything.
I would agree that some of the punishments I've heard for those caught are insane though, just completely disproportionate. If their idea was to make an example of them, not only is that unjust IMO, it doesn't seem to have worked AT ALL.
Because in the end, these pirates would lose money they wouldn't even have spent if piracy wasn't there in the first place. It's not like downloading a pirated album means you would've bought it.
[QUOTE="Gallion-Beast"] I wouldn't (for reasons l won't be sharing), but l would still object to internet filtering for any purpose, even for things l find despicable like child porn simply because such a system could be too easily abused. A far better system would simply to be monitor who accesses such sites and then charge them with whatever crime they're doing by visiting the site.Gallion-Beast
Tying up the courts sounds fun!:roll: Charging people who commit crimes is tying up the courts? :? Filtering websites wouldn't stop it anyway, there'd just be a higher reliance on lesser known peer to peer protocols. Charging someone with a crime usually, in most cases, heads to court....
[QUOTE="Gallion-Beast"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] Tying up the courts sounds fun!:roll:
DroidPhysX
Charging people who commit crimes is tying up the courts? :? Filtering websites wouldn't stop it anyway, there'd just be a higher reliance on lesser known peer to peer protocols. Charging someone with a crime usually, in most cases, heads to court.... That's kind of what they're there for.
[QUOTE="Gallion-Beast"] Charging people who commit crimes is tying up the courts? :? Filtering websites wouldn't stop it anyway, there'd just be a higher reliance on lesser known peer to peer protocols.Gallion-Beast
Charging someone with a crime usually, in most cases, heads to court.... That's kind of what they're there for. Thats what I was kind of saying :P
Because in the end, these pirates would lose money they wouldn't even have spent if piracy wasn't there in the first place. It's not like downloading a pirated album means you would've bought it.
bloodling
Of course, but I don't think that's a reasonable argument. Whether they would have paid for it is irrelevant, they're being punished for taking something they should have paid for.
[QUOTE="Gallion-Beast"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] Charging someone with a crime usually, in most cases, heads to court....
DroidPhysX
That's kind of what they're there for. Thats what I was kind of saying :P It's using the courts. Tying them up implies that they're being wasted or prevented from fulfilling their purpose. Bringing crimes to court would be helping them achieve their purpose.
Because in the end, these pirates would lose money they wouldn't even have spent if piracy wasn't there in the first place. It's not like downloading a pirated album means you would've bought it.
Nagru
Of course, but I don't think that's a reasonable argument. Whether they would have paid for it is irrelevant, they're being punished for taking something they should have paid for.
Something that they took, but it shouldn't be there just one click away from them. I just don't see how punishing people helps anyone. Just remove these things from the Internet.
Because in the end, these pirates would lose money they wouldn't even have spent if piracy wasn't there in the first place. It's not like downloading a pirated album means you would've bought it.
bloodling
Of course, but I don't think that's a reasonable argument. Whether they would have paid for it is irrelevant, they're being punished for taking something they should have paid for.
Something that they took, but it shouldn't be there just one click away from them. I just don't see how punishing people helps anyone. Just remove these things from the Internet.
It would be impossible to completely remove these things from the internet. The USA can't govern the internet since its world wide. They can certainly try. They will fail horribly but it will be entertaining to watch them try
Knowing people they're going to find a way around it and just rename it. filiwian
Most certainly. Pirates will not go away. They will find a way around whatever the government tries to do and than they get to start at square 1 while the pirates continue doing what they do as per usual
@test factor If the govement can't enforce their law in anyway, then it's a useless law. You might as well argue for the legal status of piracy if that was the case.
[QUOTE="alexside1"]@test factor If the govement can't enforce their law in anyway, then it's a useless law. You might as well argue for the legal status of piracy if that was the case. They can't stop piracy and thats obvious by now. They can try but its like people who use illegal drugs. No matter what the government tries to do they can't stop people from doing what they want.
[QUOTE="filiwian"]Knowing people they're going to find a way around it and just rename it. testfactor888
Most certainly. Pirates will not go away. They will find a way around whatever the government tries to do and than they get to start at square 1 while the pirates continue doing what they do as per usual
For sure, it would be more like reducing piracy. No idea if it'd really work.
[QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="alexside1"]@test factor If the govement can't enforce their law in anyway, then it's a useless law. You might as well argue for the legal status of piracy if that was the case. They can't stop piracy and thats obvious by now. They can try but its like people who use illegal drugs. No matter what the government tries to do they can't stop people from doing what they want. Poor, logic. Just because the goverment can't prevent the robbers robbing the bank dosn't mean that they can't chase them and track them down.
Something that they took, but it shouldn't be there just one click away from them. I just don't see how punishing people helps anyone. Just remove these things from the Internet.
bloodling
That I can agree with. It's almost certainly a losing battle, but standing back and doing nothing sounds terrible.
Taking down the major sites would probably put a major dent in piracy at least temporarily, and it wouldn't harm anybody.
[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="alexside1"]@test factor If the govement can't enforce their law in anyway, then it's a useless law. You might as well argue for the legal status of piracy if that was the case. They can't stop piracy and thats obvious by now. They can try but its like people who use illegal drugs. No matter what the government tries to do they can't stop people from doing what they want. Poor, logic. Just because the goverment can't prevent the robbers robbing the bank dosn't mean that they can't chase them and track them down. A bank robbery is a much easier thing to track considering how few of those happen in general. If you we're to find out how many people actually pirate stuff out there the number would be so much higher that it would be near impossible for the government to track down everybody. They can certainly try though but I hope they have a bunch of free man hours as I am guessing they would not get done going after people for the next 10-20 years. Considering all the time invested and needed to track people down and prove they pirated materials.
Something that they took, but it shouldn't be there just one click away from them. I just don't see how punishing people helps anyone. Just remove these things from the Internet.
Nagru
That I can agree with. It's almost certainly a losing battle, but standing back and doing nothing sounds terrible.
Taking down the major sites would probably put a major dent in piracy at least temporarily, and it wouldn't harm anybody.
Considering alot of these sites are located in countries outside of the USA they can try to shut them down but in the long run they don't have the ability to control the world. Even though they would like to pretend they do
[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="testfactor888"] They can't stop piracy and thats obvious by now. They can try but its like people who use illegal drugs. No matter what the government tries to do they can't stop people from doing what they want. testfactor888
Poor, logic. Just because the goverment can't prevent the robbers robbing the bank dosn't mean that they can't chase them and track them down. A bank robbery is a much easier thing to track considering how few of those happen in general. If you we're to find out how many people actually pirate stuff out there the number would be so much higher that it would be near impossible for the government to track down everybody. They can certainly try though but I hope they have a bunch of free man hours as I am guessing they would not get done going after people for the next 10-20 years. Considering all the time invested and needed to track people down and prove they pirated materials.
I'd go so far as to say that anyone with Internet access has at one point illegally obtained/listened/watched something.
[QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="testfactor888"] They can't stop piracy and thats obvious by now. They can try but its like people who use illegal drugs. No matter what the government tries to do they can't stop people from doing what they want. Poor, logic. Just because the goverment can't prevent the robbers robbing the bank dosn't mean that they can't chase them and track them down. A bank robbery is a much easier thing to track considering how few of those happen in general. If you we're to find out how many people actually pirate stuff out there the number would be so much higher that it would be near impossible for the government to track down everybody. They can certainly try though but I hope they have a bunch of free man hours as I am guessing they would not get done going after people for the next 10-20 years. Considering all the time invested and needed to track people down and prove they pirated materials. You miss the point. There always be theifing There always be raping There always be etc. Dosn't mean the goverment throw its hands up in the air and saying "oh well there always be x, might not do anything about it." Don't attack the downloader attack the hacker. I rather have the goverment do something about it, then nothing at all. If the goverment can't enforce it at any way then it shouldn't be illegal. That is what I'm getting from you.
Considering alot of these sites are located in countries outside of the USA they can try to shut them down but in the long run they don't have the ability to control the world. Even though they would like to pretend they dotestfactor888
They can't shut anything down, but they can make laws to block specific torrents. Not all of them, of course you'd still be able to download some Justin Bieber, but not some other less known stuff, and that can be good for these artists.
[QUOTE="testfactor888"]Considering alot of these sites are located in countries outside of the USA they can try to shut them down but in the long run they don't have the ability to control the world. Even though they would like to pretend they dobloodling
They can't shut anything down, but they can make laws to block specific torrents. Not all of them, of course you'd still be able to download some Justin Bieber, but not some other stuff less known, and that can be good for these artists.
All I know is if they block one another 5 will pop up in its place. Piracy sites are like roaches that way. If you see one you know somewhere that there are another 20-30 of them just hiding :P
Considering alot of these sites are located in countries outside of the USA they can try to shut them down but in the long run they don't have the ability to control the world. Even though they would like to pretend they dotestfactor888
The current bills idea is not to try to take them down (I agree that's impossible), but to filter them from the web so Americans get a 404 message when they try to go to those sites.
I suppose more computer savvy people could get around that pretty easily with a proxy though...
All I know is if they block one another 5 will pop up in its place. Piracy sites are like roaches that way. If you see one you know somewhere that there are another 20-30 of them just hiding :Ptestfactor888
Actually, you'd be surprised how many albums I've bought and there was no torrent for these albums.
[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="alexside1"] Poor, logic. Just because the goverment can't prevent the robbers robbing the bank dosn't mean that they can't chase them and track them down. A bank robbery is a much easier thing to track considering how few of those happen in general. If you we're to find out how many people actually pirate stuff out there the number would be so much higher that it would be near impossible for the government to track down everybody. They can certainly try though but I hope they have a bunch of free man hours as I am guessing they would not get done going after people for the next 10-20 years. Considering all the time invested and needed to track people down and prove they pirated materials. You miss the point. There always be theifing There always be raping There always be etc. Dosn't mean the goverment throw its hands up in the air and saying "oh well there always be x, might not do anything about it." Don't attack the downloader attack the hacker. I rather have the goverment do something about it, then nothing at all. If the goverment can't enforce it at any way then it shouldn't be illegal. That is what I'm getting from you. I am pretty pro liberty for the individual and very against the government in general. I am quite sure that comes through in most of my posts. I don't really care what the government tries to do as all I know is they will fail hard on this. They can try and enforce it all they want but it will never work and it will just be another train wreck like the war on drugs.
[QUOTE="testfactor888"] All I know is if they block one another 5 will pop up in its place. Piracy sites are like roaches that way. If you see one you know somewhere that there are another 20-30 of them just hiding :Pbloodling
Actually, you'd be surprised how many albums I've bought and there was no torrent for these albums.
Perhaps you just we're not looking in all the right places. Than again I don't know the album so who knows :)
So they can't shut down sites with foreign addresses like .ru or .ca (which is pretty important considering that virtually all piracy sites are located outside the US). And blocking a website isn't going to stop a person from routing around the block with a proxy or SSH tunnel. I don't see this bill stopping piracy at all. The only thing it will do is set a precedent for government censorship of the internet.
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