[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]palin was sexy tonight.Zentrenius
Biden's thoughts during the debate:
Thank God this podium is here. The American people may have otherwise noticed the tent being constructed.
Hahaha that made my night.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I only got to see the last 10 minutes of the debate because I was working. From what I understand, Palin did very well. Suprised a lot of people. From what I understand, she connected with the American people on a personal level. Just because Biden may have "won" the debate by using statistics and whatnot, does not mean he will win the American votes. I have a feeling that Palin may have won over more of the undecided voters than Biden did. The_Mac_Daddy
I saw about 10-15 minutes of the end too and noticed Palin's approval line was CONSISTENTLY lower than Bidens. On top of that, Biden tore her down everytime she tried making up ground.
If what I saw was consistent with the majority of the debate Palin was EASILY the loser.
And no I am not casting my vote till I watch the debate in full.
I thought it was funny that Biden didn't know the Commanding General in Afgahnistan called for more troops to go into the country. He said they weren't calling for the surge.
And people thought Palin knew nothing about foreign policy.
[QUOTE="Thyeora"]I think it's interesting that people are talking about how great Biden did, but, when you boil it down to the raw meaning of what was said, all he did was a better job of avoiding the questions. He spent more time pointing fingers at McCain, Bush, and Cheney than answering the questions. Palin may not have been factual but she was more straightforward about her views.RadBooley
Did we watch the same debate?
Uhh...yeah. Take the portion on same-sex marriage for example. Palin flat out said americans have a right to be happy and she would be okay with something contractual but she felt marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman. I had no clue what Biden was talking about until Palin called him out and said they were in agreement. And then of course, he had to add in a little finger pointing in almost every response. Palin did it too but Biden did it way more.
Biden clearly won on points. Palin was folksy and reassured her base, but she did not capture Independant voters. I'm not sure if Biden did either.
But when when it comes to the issues Biden won. Palin did better than we expeted only because alot of people thought she would flop hard.
Biden clearly won on points. Palin was folksy and reassured her base, but she did not capture Independant voters. I'm not sure if Biden did either.
But when when it comes to the issues Biden won. Palin did better than we expeted only because alot of people thought she would flop hard.
TREAL_Since
I don't think anybody, conservatives included, expected her to do more than she did. In the talks afterwards on CNN they were talking about how she energized her party members and that was the goal. I would have to say I think she did exactly that.
actually most news stations... even the mdoerator said both of them just avoided questions the whole nightH8sMikeMoore
You should watch it. Biden answered most of the questions. Though they both did not anser ALL of the questions because of continuing other questions Palin delibratelyignored certain questions and even told the moderator she was not going to answer it.
What astonished me is that she had no response what-so-ever to the attack: What will John McCain change policy wisecompared to Bush. Woah :?.
[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]Biden clearly won on points. Palin was folksy and reassured her base, but she did not capture Independant voters. I'm not sure if Biden did either.
But when when it comes to the issues Biden won. Palin did better than we expeted only because alot of people thought she would flop hard.
Thyeora
I don't think anybody, conservatives included, expected her to do more than she did. In the talks afterwards on CNN they were talking about how she energized her party members and that was the goal. I would have to say I think she did exactly that.
reassured party members, yes.
Attracted uncertain voters, not in the slightest.
[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]Biden clearly won on points. Palin was folksy and reassured her base, but she did not capture Independant voters. I'm not sure if Biden did either.
But when when it comes to the issues Biden won. Palin did better than we expeted only because alot of people thought she would flop hard.
Thyeora
I don't think anybody, conservatives included, expected her to do more than she did. In the talks afterwards on CNN they were talking about how she energized her party members and that was the goal. I would have to say I think she did exactly that.
I agree.
But some people thought she would completely flop. I was just speaking to those people. It wasn't a win for her at all when it comes to points. It was neutral as far as her not completely flopping.
[QUOTE="mfacek"][QUOTE="Devil-Itachi"][QUOTE="helium_flash"]In terms of the debate, Biden won. However, Palin easily was able to handle herself up there, which is a victory among itself.helium_flash
Indeed that's why I can't decide.
We should think Palin being able to handle herself is a victory? She is running as the vice-president. She will be sparring with Putin, Osama, etc. Should we really be satisified with her "handling" herself?
She will be sparring with Putin and Osama? Since when?Gotta love it when people act dumb!!!
In case you really dont know what he means, he doesn't actually mean putting on gloves and going at it. Just that he thinks that she'll have her hands full with problems of trying to get Putin to budge or Osama to come out(if he's still alive that is) etc, and that she doesn't really know what she's doing or getting herself into.
However, I'm guessing and hoping at the same time that you knew that.
A republican strategist on CNN said right after the debate that Iraq is an argument Republicans cannot win. I thought that was very interesting.TREAL_Since
I think the War in Iraq has become irrelevant. I mean, the timetable has been set, the US is going to withdraw by 2011.
I was kinda hoping Palin would put Biden in his place but it turned out to be disappointing for her. I was hoping she would be more aggresive. She also dodged some of the questions. This was possibly her only time to debate and I would say she blew it. As for me, Im not voting for any of them. McCain wants to continue most of the Bush polocies while Obama will just make it worse. That is why Im voting for a third party this year. I just wish that third parties could have a chance to debate with the big 2 but it doesnt work that way.GamingBoy2009
Of course. Why would either the republicans or the democrats want some some 3rd party showing that there is very little difference between them? It would kind of blow the whole "change" messege.
A republican strategist on CNN said right after the debate that Iraq is an argument Republicans cannot win. I thought that was very interesting.TREAL_Since
That would explain why they're pushing Iran so hard now.
[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]A republican strategist on CNN said right after the debate that Iraq is an argument Republicans cannot win. I thought that was very interesting.hokies1313
I think the War in Iraq has become irrelevant. I mean, the timetable has been set, the US is going to withdraw by 2011.
The War in Iraq is very relevant. John McCain doesn't want to end the war in Iraq. He is the only one that has not expressed a true time line or the will to even leave. His campaign continues to call leaving Iraq a "DEFEAT".
This is very relevant. If John McCain is president we don't know how much longer we will be in Iraq. How can we keep our money and forces in Iraq when we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror.
[QUOTE="GamingBoy2009"]I was kinda hoping Palin would put Biden in his place but it turned out to be disappointing for her. I was hoping she would be more aggresive. She also dodged some of the questions. This was possibly her only time to debate and I would say she blew it. As for me, Im not voting for any of them. McCain wants to continue most of the Bush polocies while Obama will just make it worse. That is why Im voting for a third party this year. I just wish that third parties could have a chance to debate with the big 2 but it doesnt work that way.StephenKing_1
Of course. Why would either the republicans or the democrats want some some 3rd party showing that there is very little difference between them? It would kind of blow the whole "change" messege.
Yep. That message of "Change" is a joke. In the 1992 election, Bill Clinton was advocating "Change" but he just stayed with the politics as usual after he got elected.[QUOTE="hokies1313"][QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]A republican strategist on CNN said right after the debate that Iraq is an argument Republicans cannot win. I thought that was very interesting.TREAL_Since
I think the War in Iraq has become irrelevant. I mean, the timetable has been set, the US is going to withdraw by 2011.
The War in Iraq is very relevant. John McCain doesn't want to end the war in Iraq. He is the only one that has not expressed a true time line or the will to even leave. His campaign continues to call leaving Iraq a "DEFEAT".
This is very relevant. If John McCain is president we don't know how much longer we will be in Iraq. How can we keep our money and forces in Iraq when we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror.
Oh yes the all more important war in Afghanistan, where we must defeat the pesky Taliban and find the cave where the radical 911 mastermind worth many millions of dollars is hiding. That's exactly where we should focus our energy.
[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]The War in Iraq is very relevant. John McCain doesn't want to end the war in Iraq. He is the only one that has not expressed a true time line or the will to even leave. His campaign continues to call leaving Iraq a "DEFEAT".
This is very relevant. If John McCain is president we don't know how much longer we will be in Iraq. How can we keep our money and forces in Iraq when we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror.
StephenKing_1
Oh yes the all more important war in Afghanistan, where we must defeat the pesky Taliban and find the cave where the radical 911 mastermind worth many millions of dollars is hiding. That's exactly where we should focus our energy.
Honestly if you want real talk from me I don't even think the Taliban/Osama organized or commited the attacks on 911.
But for everyone who is saying that Osama and the Taliban attacked us: If you we must find and put these people to justice, GO TO AFGHANISTAN! Do not stay in Iraq.
And if Osama did organize the attack against us we should at least focus our efforts on where the the vast majority of the Taliban and Osama operate: AFGHANISTAN.
[QUOTE="StephenKing_1"][QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]The War in Iraq is very relevant. John McCain doesn't want to end the war in Iraq. He is the only one that has not expressed a true time line or the will to even leave. His campaign continues to call leaving Iraq a "DEFEAT".
This is very relevant. If John McCain is president we don't know how much longer we will be in Iraq. How can we keep our money and forces in Iraq when we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror.
TREAL_Since
Oh yes the all more important war in Afghanistan, where we must defeat the pesky Taliban and find the cave where the radical 911 mastermind worth many millions of dollars is hiding. That's exactly where we should focus our energy.
Honestly if you want real talk from me I don't even think the Taliban/Osama organized or commited the attacks on 911.
But for everyone who is saying that Osama and the Taliban attacked us: If you we must find and put these people to justice, GO TO AFGHANISTAN! Do not stay in Iraq.
And if Osama did organize the attack against us we should at least focus our efforts on where the the vast majority of the Taliban and Osama operate: AFGHANISTAN.
I definitely agree! We shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place, but if the Taliban somehow planned a startegic attacked against FREAKING United States from caves, then we should definitely go to Afhangistan and focus vast majority of our troops there. Not Iraq.
Palin was the clear victor of this debate. Not only did she put forth McCain's platform strongly, she responded to every one of Biden's many lies. She was at the top of her game tonight. And when Biden tried to connect McCain to Bush (which has always been a ridiculous accusation) she was right there with the best line of the night when she said, "there you go again, looking to the past, when your campaign is supposed to be about the future." mysterylobster
You have to acknowledge the past and know the problem/culprits to change the future.
When attacked on to issue: What will John McCain do to change policy wisefrom the Bush administration, she gave no response.
P.S. I'm sure you are a devout Christain and conservitive when it comes to the abortion issue. You know abortion rates are actually lowered under democratic administrations?
[QUOTE="StephenKing_1"][QUOTE="TREAL_Since"]The War in Iraq is very relevant. John McCain doesn't want to end the war in Iraq. He is the only one that has not expressed a true time line or the will to even leave. His campaign continues to call leaving Iraq a "DEFEAT".
This is very relevant. If John McCain is president we don't know how much longer we will be in Iraq. How can we keep our money and forces in Iraq when we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror.
TREAL_Since
Oh yes the all more important war in Afghanistan, where we must defeat the pesky Taliban and find the cave where the radical 911 mastermind worth many millions of dollars is hiding. That's exactly where we should focus our energy.
Honestly if you want real talk from me I don't even think the Taliban/Osama organized or commited the attacks on 911.
But for everyone who is saying that Osama and the Taliban attacked us: If you we must find and put these people to justice, GO TO AFGHANISTAN! Do not stay in Iraq.
And if Osama did organize the attack against us we should at least focus our efforts on where the the vast majority of the Taliban and Osama operate: AFGHANISTAN.
Ok. You said, "we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror."
Now if you don't believe that the taliban or osama had anythng to do with 911 then why would you want to move more troops there and spend more money searching for and bringing to justice people who did nothing wrong?
Besides, if I remember correctly, most of the eledged hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan.
Oops indeed. But in the heat of debate, such things are bound to happen.Apparantly, the "facts" in the debate... some went "adrift" as Washington has stated. :?
Oops.
Link
Stevo_the_gamer
[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]Palin was the clear victor of this debate. Not only did she put forth McCain's platform strongly, she responded to every one of Biden's many lies. She was at the top of her game tonight. And when Biden tried to connect McCain to Bush (which has always been a ridiculous accusation) she was right there with the best line of the night when she said, "there you go again, looking to the past, when your campaign is supposed to be about the future." TREAL_Since
P.S. I'm sure you are a devout Christain and conservitive when it comes to the abortion issue. You know abortion rates are actually lowered under democratic administrations?
Huh?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-01-16-abortion-rates_N.htm
Palin's a gimmick and nothing more.Zero5000Xthen i guess obama is as well because they're very similar with the exception that palin has actually changed things and Obama plans on it
Ok. You said, "we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror."
Now if you don't believe that the taliban or osama had anythng to do with 911 then why would you want to move more troops there and spend more money searching for and bringing to justice people who did nothing wrong?
Besides, if I remember correctly, most of the eledged hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan.
StephenKing_1
What if I am wrong? Intelligence tells us that the Taliban lead by Osama Bin Laden constructed the attacks. If I am wrong, (which the US intelligence tells me I'm wrong) then we should defnitely focus on Afghanistan.
I don't completely agree with everything, but when it comes to actually following our intelligence Obama plans to do that. And yes, the Taliban are terroist and you can consider fighting against them the " ACTAUL War on Terror" going by our intelligence.
Palin was the clear victor of this debate. Not only did she put forth McCain's platform strongly, she responded to every one of Biden's many lies. She was at the top of her game tonight. And when Biden tried to connect McCain to Bush (which has always been a ridiculous accusation) she was right there with the best line of the night when she said, "there you go again, looking to the past, when your campaign is supposed to be about the future."mysterylobster
you sir are delusional.
Bidden was IMMENSLY more FACTUAL and attacked mccain. while palin was picking up the peices of a broken campaign. every poll on thee internet (including this one) and tv has declared bidden the winner.
i guess its time to "take the fanboy goggles off".
in palins defence tho, she held her own and she did better than i expected but not good enuff in my book.
[QUOTE="Zero5000X"]Palin's a gimmick and nothing more.Zcrimson07then i guess obama is as well because they're very similar with the exception that palin has actually changed things and Obama plans on it
They are nothing a like and Palin hasn't changed anything. One difference is Palin supports rape and Obama does not.
[QUOTE="Zero5000X"]Palin's a gimmick and nothing more.Zcrimson07then i guess obama is as well because they're very similar with the exception that palin has actually changed things and Obama plans on it
The problem is that Palin is not the decision maker. She agrees with John McCain and McCain doesn't have any concrete plans on changing the policies of George W Bush.
[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]Palin was the clear victor of this debate. Not only did she put forth McCain's platform strongly, she responded to every one of Biden's many lies. She was at the top of her game tonight. And when Biden tried to connect McCain to Bush (which has always been a ridiculous accusation) she was right there with the best line of the night when she said, "there you go again, looking to the past, when your campaign is supposed to be about the future." StephenKing_1
P.S. I'm sure you are a devout Christain and conservitive when it comes to the abortion issue. You know abortion rates are actually lowered under democratic administrations?
Huh?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-01-16-abortion-rates_N.htm
Just because abortion rates are dropping now doesn't mean they haven't risen in the past years. It's fact that abortion rates stay lower during democratic administrations.
EDIT: They have been low during the Bush administration, but over the years they have stayed lower under democratic administrations.
I ASK THIS OF MCCAIN SUPPORTERS:
Why has the McCain campaign changed their strategy and message to CHANGE all of a sudden? And seeing as we are in the mess we are in now primarily due to the Bush administration (and 6 years of Republican dominated congress), how can he all of a sudden change Washington when he has be in agreement with Bush's policies 90-95% of the time?
Apparantly, the "facts" in the debate... some went "adrift" as Washington has stated. :?
Oops.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27001026/?GT1=43001
Stevo_the_gamer
good stuff
PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."
THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle ****while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.
___
BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."
THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.
___
PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."
THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.
___
BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain's $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage "will go straight to the insurance company."
THE FACTS: Of course it would, because it's meant to pay for insurance. That's like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car dealer.
___
PALIN: Claimed she has taken on the oil industry as Alaska governor.
THE FACTS: Palin pushed to impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies and distributed the proceeds to the state's citizens to offset rising energy costs. However, she has also sided with the industry on a number of issues. She sued the Interior Department over its designation of polar bears as an endangered species. That puts her on the same side as the American Petroleum Institute, the oil industry's chief trade association. She also supports the industry's desire to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge — a position at odds with McCain.
___
BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and "wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut."
THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it's misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.
___
PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.
THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.
___
BIDEN: "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry — deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the banking industry."
THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."
___
PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."
THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."
___
PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."
BIDEN: "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way."
THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others. In the March 14 budget resolution supported by Obama and Biden, McCain actually did not vote.
[QUOTE="StephenKing_1"]Ok. You said, "we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror."
Now if you don't believe that the taliban or osama had anythng to do with 911 then why would you want to move more troops there and spend more money searching for and bringing to justice people who did nothing wrong?
Besides, if I remember correctly, most of the eledged hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan.
TREAL_Since
What if I am wrong? Intelligence tells us that the Taliban lead by Osama Bin Laden constructed the attacks. If I am wrong, (which the US intelligence tells me I'm wrong) then we should defnitely focus on Afghanistan.
I don't completely agree with everything, but when it comes to actually following our intelligence Obama plans to do that. And yes, the Taliban are terroist and you can consider fighting against them the " ACTAUL War on Terror" going by our intelligence.
Well, maybe you can get me an invite to your next Homeland Security briefing. The CIA never bothers to call me and keep me up to date on the latest intelligence. They're all secretive like that.
Wasn't it our intelligence, or maybe lack of, that led us into Iraq in the first place? The CIA, the FBI, the UN, congress, the president, former presidents, presidents and prime ministers of other nations, all said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and posed a major threat. How did that work out?
You don't know what the government knows. You know what they tell you.
So far the war on terror hasn't acomplished much other than convincing people to give up their rights.
[QUOTE="Zero5000X"]then i guess obama is as well because they're very similar with the exception that palin has actually changed things and Obama plans on it[QUOTE="Zcrimson07"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"]Palin's a gimmick and nothing more.Zcrimson07
They are nothing a like and Palin hasn't changed anything. One difference is Palin supports rape and Obama does not.
lol i just quoted you in another thread as saying "the stupidest thing i've ever heard" well guess what, you just topped yourself! i'm sure that palin, A WOMAN, is PRO-RAPE. seriously pull your head out of your ass and until you learn how to think just stop postinghttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-on-abortion-id-oppo_n_122924.html
P.S. I'm sure you are a devout Christain and conservitive when it comes to the abortion issue. You know abortion rates are actually lowered under democratic administrations?
TREAL_Since
I really don't know if that's true or not, but I can tell you the only thing that matters is whether Roe v. Wade is the law of the land or not. With God on our side, we can elect someone who will put as many as four judges in the SCOTUS who will finally throw out this bad law.
[QUOTE="TREAL_Since"][QUOTE="StephenKing_1"]Ok. You said, "we need to focus on Afghanistan and the ACTUAL war on terror."
Now if you don't believe that the taliban or osama had anythng to do with 911 then why would you want to move more troops there and spend more money searching for and bringing to justice people who did nothing wrong?
Besides, if I remember correctly, most of the eledged hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan.
StephenKing_1
What if I am wrong? Intelligence tells us that the Taliban lead by Osama Bin Laden constructed the attacks. If I am wrong, (which the US intelligence tells me I'm wrong) then we should defnitely focus on Afghanistan.
I don't completely agree with everything, but when it comes to actually following our intelligence Obama plans to do that. And yes, the Taliban are terroist and you can consider fighting against them the " ACTAUL War on Terror" going by our intelligence.
Well, maybe you can get me an invite to your next Homeland Security briefing. The CIA never bothers to call me and keep me up to date on the latest intelligence. They're all secretive like that.
Wasn't it our intelligence, or maybe lack of, that led us into Iraq in the first place? The CIA, the FBI, the UN, congress, the president, former presidents, presidents and prime ministers of other nations, all said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and posed a major threat. How did that work out?
You don't know what the government knows. You know what they tell you.
So far the war on terror hasn't acomplished much other than convincing people to give up their rights.
Look, I'm just going by what we are told by the US Government. I've already told you I don't think they did it.
Once again Biden/Obama gives you a plan and answer the questions while Palin/McCain doesn't answer the questions and tell their memorized stories.
[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Apparantly, the "facts" in the debate... some went "adrift" as Washington has stated. :?
Oops.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27001026/?GT1=43001
Guybrush_3
good stuff
PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."
THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle ****while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.
___
BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."
THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.
___
PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."
THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.
___
BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain's $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage "will go straight to the insurance company."
THE FACTS: Of course it would, because it's meant to pay for insurance. That's like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car dealer.
___
PALIN: Claimed she has taken on the oil industry as Alaska governor.
THE FACTS: Palin pushed to impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies and distributed the proceeds to the state's citizens to offset rising energy costs. However, she has also sided with the industry on a number of issues. She sued the Interior Department over its designation of polar bears as an endangered species. That puts her on the same side as the American Petroleum Institute, the oil industry's chief trade association. She also supports the industry's desire to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge — a position at odds with McCain.
___
BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and "wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut."
THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it's misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.
___
PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.
THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.
___
BIDEN: "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry — deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the banking industry."
THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."
___
PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."
THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."
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PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."
BIDEN: "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way."
THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others. In the March 14 budget resolution supported by Obama and Biden, McCain actually did not vote.
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