[QUOTE="Stanley09"] alcohol, the internet, and world of warcraft have also ruined peoples lives. whats your point. For the second time, 'if you want to ban something harmful we should ban EVERYTHING!' isn't a logical point. It also completely fails to address the actual point of weed by deflecting onto something else.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Stanley09"] alcohol, the internet, and world of warcraft have also ruined peoples lives. whats your point. For the second time, 'if you want to ban something harmful we should ban EVERYTHING!' isn't a logical point. It also completely fails to address the actual point of weed by deflecting onto something else. so then what should be legal?
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]ninja hippo personal stories are lame and people get high on weed all the time that's the point if they can't handle crap, they would have had issue with something else anyway ljs you keep trucking broSure will. Though I'm sure the weed smokers will continue the same even though medical science has provided proof that weed is not harmful....they do have the pro weed sites...ie pot smokers sites to fall back on. wait are you saying it isn't harmful?No. I said not harmless....I edited. I forgot I put the word not in there.
[QUOTE="Stanley09"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You know taking something away that is legal....ie alcohol that is entrenched in the society...does not work as Prohibition has already demonstrated. Keeping something illegal that is already illegal does not have that same effect on society in it's entirety. *sigh*LJS9502_basic
there is war going on in mexico and we are causing it by keeping drugs illegal. The violence now cause by the illegality is far worse than prohibition was. As long as there is demand there will be supplyNo the pot smokers are causing it. No demand...no war. You cannot blame non pot smokers for the war. Just the users. pot smokers and drug users wont ever be going away...there has never been nor ever will there be a society in which humans havent used drugs. psychedelics such as mescaline and mushrooms have been used since before written history
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]Simply from my own life i can see that weed is worse than alcohol. I drink all the time. All my friends drink. We get drunk pretty often. But three people i know, one of which was my brother, got into smoking weed and it messed them up. It's not something i think people should have easy access to. DudeNtheRoom
you're wrong you shouldn't knock what you haven't tried what happened to your brother? did it trip him up into a schizo episode or did he just stop going to school or what? So you think weed is bad b/c your brother could not handle it and you seem to be able to drink to your hears content? So I guess you're just ignoring the fact that there are ppl who lose jobs, wives, families over alchohol. It's ppl like you who don't think before they decide that annoy the hell out of me. I'LL ASSUME this is directed at ninja
In excess. The kidneys can handle moderate amounts of alcohol. And unless one is a lightweight....the brain as well. Though you see to ascribe to the same argument technique as others. Can't show a positive reason for legalizing weed so bring up alcohol. All that does is reinforce that if we have one substance that causes problems in society then we don't need to create more. So you have agreed with my stance.LJS9502_basic
Uh, no. I have not agreed with you in the slightest!! You want a positive reason Mr. LJ.S I will give you one!! Prisons in your homeland would not combined stoners and criminals, less people in jail less people you gotta feed cloth and shelter with your taxes. Which I am sure you are in favour of!!
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Stanley09"] alcohol, the internet, and world of warcraft have also ruined peoples lives. whats your point. For the second time, 'if you want to ban something harmful we should ban EVERYTHING!' isn't a logical point. It also completely fails to address the actual point of weed by deflecting onto something else. I think this is the first time in a long time we've agreed. But yes...we will never be able to get rid of everything that can cause harm.
[QUOTE="DudeNtheRoom"] So you think weed is bad b/c your brother could not handle it and you seem to be able to drink to your hears content? So I guess you're just ignoring the fact that there are ppl who lose jobs, wives, families over alchohol. It's ppl like you who don't think before they decide that annoy the hell out of me. No i think alcohol is harmful too to some people who abuse it. I just dont think alcohol can be reasonably banned however. :|
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]In excess. The kidneys can handle moderate amounts of alcohol. And unless one is a lightweight....the brain as well. Though you see to ascribe to the same argument technique as others. Can't show a positive reason for legalizing weed so bring up alcohol. All that does is reinforce that if we have one substance that causes problems in society then we don't need to create more. So you have agreed with my stance.ToppledPillars
Uh, no. I have not agreed with you in the slightest!! You want a positive reason Mr. LJ.S I will give you one!! Prisons in your homeland would not combined stoners and criminals, less people in jail less people you gotta feed cloth and shelter with your taxes. Which I am sure you are in favour of!! People don't get put in jail until they've either been arrested a number of times for the same offense or have more than just an amount for personal consumption...ie dealers. And I don't have any problem with those individuals being given jail time. So that isn't a point in favor of legalization. Major habits tend to mean we are clothing and feeding them with social programs anyway.
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Stanley09"] alcohol, the internet, and world of warcraft have also ruined peoples lives. whats your point. For the second time, 'if you want to ban something harmful we should ban EVERYTHING!' isn't a logical point. It also completely fails to address the actual point of weed by deflecting onto something else. so then what should be legal? At the end of the day it's arbitrary. As a lawyer believe me i know more than anyone how ridiculously stupid the legal system is, but this isn't a debate about criminology it's about weed.
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Sure will. Though I'm sure the weed smokers will continue the same even though medical science has provided proof that weed is not harmful....they do have the pro weed sites...ie pot smokers sites to fall back on.LJS9502_basic
wait are you saying it isn't harmful?No. I said not harmless....I edited. I forgot I put the word not in there. it certainly is harmful if smoked. if ingested, it has no negative effects that i know of what about you?
You also have to view this in a societal context. Different societies place different values on things. Of course it's arbitrary. There are tons of things that are illegal in our society that probably are relatively harmless. You can't walk around naked. You can't use certain language on television. You can't marry your family members - except in West Virginia. Most of these things can be argued that they are far less harmless than things that are legal, but society has chosen to treat them in different ways.
The reason why marijuana became illegal in the first place was largely due to racism and the influence of special interests. Moreover, people shouldn't be going to prison for arbitrary things. All laws are arbitrary in some manner. To an extent, yes, and maybe we should have a great liberalization of our laws and legalize a ****load of various things, but the topic at hand is drugs, more specifically marijuana, so let's focus on that. The reason why marijuana became illegal in the first place was not because the medical community decided that this drug is too dangerous and that it shouldn't be legal - it became illegal largely because of the racism of the time that marijuana prohibition began, and because certain special interests benefited from marijuana and all things related to marijuana (i.e. hemp - the fact that hemp is illegal to produce in the U.S. is too absurd for words) being illegal.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="DudeNtheRoom"] So you think weed is bad b/c your brother could not handle it and you seem to be able to drink to your hears content? So I guess you're just ignoring the fact that there are ppl who lose jobs, wives, families over alchohol. It's ppl like you who don't think before they decide that annoy the hell out of me. No i think alcohol is harmful too to some people who abuse it. I just dont think alcohol can be reasonably banned however. :| neither can weed. more than 7% of the american population uses it on a regular basis, nearly 50% of all adults have tried it...
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]In excess. The kidneys can handle moderate amounts of alcohol. And unless one is a lightweight....the brain as well. Though you see to ascribe to the same argument technique as others. Can't show a positive reason for legalizing weed so bring up alcohol. All that does is reinforce that if we have one substance that causes problems in society then we don't need to create more. So you have agreed with my stance.ToppledPillars
Uh, no. I have not agreed with you in the slightest!! You want a positive reason Mr. LJ.S I will give you one!! Prisons in your homeland would not combined stoners and criminals, less people in jail less people you gotta feed cloth and shelter with your taxes. Which I am sure you are in favour of!! That's an argument in favor of changing the way weed is policed however, not in favor of outright legalizing it. Don't assume that just because someone is against legalisation they completely support the current state of affairs. I think the way weed is policed right now is absurd, especially in the states.
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] wait are you saying it isn't harmful?No. I said not harmless....I edited. I forgot I put the word not in there. it certainly is harmful if smoked. if ingested, it has no negative effects that i know of what about you?Ingested still gets one high which means one's thinking is clouded. It can cause harm to self and others.
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No. I said not harmless....I edited. I forgot I put the word not in there.LJS9502_basic
it certainly is harmful if smoked. if ingested, it has no negative effects that i know of what about you?Ingested still gets one high which means one's thinking is clouded. It can cause harm to self and others. so can getting drunk
[QUOTE="DudeNtheRoom"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] you're wrong you shouldn't knock what you haven't tried what happened to your brother? did it trip him up into a schizo episode or did he just stop going to school or what?Jandurin
So you think weed is bad b/c your brother could not handle it and you seem to be able to drink to your hears content? So I guess you're just ignoring the fact that there are ppl who lose jobs, wives, families over alchohol. It's ppl like you who don't think before they decide that annoy the hell out of me. I'LL ASSUME this is directed at ninja You assume correct....its early Sun and I didn't feel like hunting down the orginal post.
[QUOTE="Stanley09"] neither can weed. more than 7% of the american population uses it on a regular basis, nearly 50% of all adults have tried it... More than 60% of the population of the US are regular alcohol drinkers, and that starts at kids over the age of 12, not the legal 21. This is the problem with any debate on weed; rather than explain why weed shouldn't be illegal, the issue is deflected onto other things like alcohol. It's not a criminology debate, it's a weed debate, and arguing about the pros and cons of an arbitrary legal system does nothing to address the issue of weed. Alcohol is completely entrenched in society. Weed is not.
[QUOTE="Stanley09"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] it certainly is harmful if smoked. if ingested, it has no negative effects that i know of what about you?Ingested still gets one high which means one's thinking is clouded. It can cause harm to self and others. so can getting drunkWhich has zero to do with weed....so let's stick on subject.
People don't get put in jail until they've either been arrested a number of times for the same offense or have more than just an amount for personal consumption...ie dealers.LJS9502_basic
[QUOTE="Stanley09"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Ingested still gets one high which means one's thinking is clouded. It can cause harm to self and others.LJS9502_basic
so can getting drunkWhich has zero to do with weed....so let's stick on subject. yes it does. it shows the hypocrisy of it all.
[QUOTE="Stanley09"] yes it does. it shows the hypocrisy of it all. So you've successfully pointed out that the legal system is arbitrary. You've done nothing to explain why weed should be regularly available to all.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Stanley09"] neither can weed. more than 7% of the american population uses it on a regular basis, nearly 50% of all adults have tried it... More than 60% of the population of the US are regular alcohol drinkers, and that starts at kids over the age of 12, not the legal 21. This is the problem with any debate on weed; rather than explain why weed shouldn't be illegal, the issue is deflected onto other things like alcohol. It's not a criminology debate, it's a weed debate, and arguing about the pros and cons of an arbitrary legal system does nothing to address the issue of weed. Alcohol is completely entrenched in society. Weed is not. most of which are not serious drinkers and would not seek it if it was illegal
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No. I said not harmless....I edited. I forgot I put the word not in there.LJS9502_basic
it certainly is harmful if smoked. if ingested, it has no negative effects that i know of what about you?Ingested still gets one high which means one's thinking is clouded. It can cause harm to self and others. um anything can cloud your mind what does that even mean are you serious or are you trolling me here?
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] People don't get put in jail until they've either been arrested a number of times for the same offense or have more than just an amount for personal consumption...ie dealers.ToppledPillars
Seems like a modern day witch-hunt to me The legal system? Society creates laws it wants enforced for the benefit of society. I'd imaging serial killers don't want to be arrested and tried either. But we have to have order in society. Not a good argument for legalizing.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Stanley09"] yes it does. it shows the hypocrisy of it all. So you've successfully pointed out that the legal system is arbitrary. You've done nothing to explain why weed should be regularly available to all. Well, why shouldn't it be? How does weed being illegal solve anything?
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] People don't get put in jail until they've either been arrested a number of times for the same offense or have more than just an amount for personal consumption...ie dealers.LJS9502_basic
Seems like a modern day witch-hunt to me The legal system? Society creates laws it wants enforced for the benefit of society. I'd imaging serial killers don't want to be arrested and tried either. But we have to have order in society. Not a good argument for legalizing. you know why weed was made illegal....right?
[QUOTE="Stanley09"] most of which are not serious drinkers and would not seek it if it was illegal Drinking rates under prohibition hardly declined at all. Plenty of people still got hold of alcohol who weren't alcoholics or binge drinkers. Churches used to illegally distribute wine for families to have with their meals. I'm not going to talk about alcohol any more. I've explained how it merely deflects from the real issue.
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] it certainly is harmful if smoked. if ingested, it has no negative effects that i know of what about you?Ingested still gets one high which means one's thinking is clouded. It can cause harm to self and others. um anything can cloud your mind what does that even mean are you serious or are you trolling me here?I do not troll. You may not agree with me...but that does not equal trolling. I don't agree with your stance but I haven't called you a troll now have I? I don't find any benefit to legalizing substances that are used solely for affecting the brain. Which is why weed is used.
[QUOTE="Stanley09"] neither can weed. more than 7% of the american population uses it on a regular basis, nearly 50% of all adults have tried it...Ninja-Hippo
More than 60% of the population of the US are regular alcohol drinkers, and that starts at kids over the age of 12, not the legal 21. This is the problem with any debate on weed; rather than explain why weed shouldn't be illegal, the issue is deflected onto other things like alcohol. It's not a criminology debate, it's a weed debate, and arguing about the pros and cons of an arbitrary legal system does nothing to address the issue of weed. Alcohol is completely entrenched in society. Weed is not. Weed was used by Native Americans. It's just as old as weed is. I hate to tell you but for being an illegal substance its pretty much imbeded in our society.
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Stanley09"] yes it does. it shows the hypocrisy of it all. So you've successfully pointed out that the legal system is arbitrary. You've done nothing to explain why weed should be regularly available to all. Well, why shouldn't it be? How does weed being illegal solve anything? It prevents it from being readily available to more people. I don't agree at all with the way weed is policed and how the courts handle weed users, but from my own experiences i've simply concluded that it's something which should be readily available to as few people as possible. It's not good. So i support it being illegal because it achieves that end, albeit through flawed means which could definitely be improved upon.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] People don't get put in jail until they've either been arrested a number of times for the same offense or have more than just an amount for personal consumption...ie dealers.LJS9502_basic
Seems like a modern day witch-hunt to me The legal system? No, tracking down dealers. Seeing as how to the REAL OWNERS the dealers and corner boys are crew expendable. New ones will be found in hours
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Ingested still gets one high which means one's thinking is clouded. It can cause harm to self and others.LJS9502_basic
um anything can cloud your mind what does that even mean are you serious or are you trolling me here?I do not troll. You may not agree with me...but that does not equal trolling. I don't agree with your stance but I haven't called you a troll now have I? I don't find any benefit to legalizing substances that are used solely for affecting the brain. Which is why weed is used. it also affects the body, like ibuprofen
It's not. Most cops aren't looking for people with weed. In fact...they get caught for other reasons. IE...traffic violation. Or a drug bust when they're going after the dealer. But marijuana users are not a major interest to cops. And if one has a small amount it's usually confiscated.
[QUOTE="DudeNtheRoom"] Weed was used by Native Americans. It's just as old as weed is. I hate to tell you but for being an illegal substance its pretty much imbeded in our society. Nowhere near to the extent that alcohol is. Alcohol is literally entrenched. It's something people refuse to have taken away from them. Weed is not. The two simply aren't comparable.
Heres the problem. It should not be someones right to say what another can put in their bodies....to a point that I made earlier. Whats to stop someone from saying it should be illegal b/c they are bitter and don't want others to enjoy it.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] So you've successfully pointed out that the legal system is arbitrary. You've done nothing to explain why weed should be regularly available to all. Well, why shouldn't it be? How does weed being illegal solve anything? It prevents it from being readily available to more people. I don't agree at all with the way weed is policed and how the courts handle weed users, but from my own experiences i've simply concluded that it's something which should be readily available to as few people as possible. It's not good. So i support it being illegal because it achieves that end, albeit through flawed means which could definitely be improved upon. why should you be able to dictate how others live their lives?
I do not troll. You may not agree with me...but that does not equal trolling. I don't agree with your stance but I haven't called you a troll now have I? I don't find any benefit to legalizing substances that are used solely for affecting the brain. Which is why weed is used. LJS9502_basic
You always assume that when someone calls you a troll that it's just because they don't agree with you.
When you say "strictly medicating," do you mean to say that anything from caffeine to Hyrdocodone would be distributed by doctors? Or would there still be things like a Walgreens isle?
[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jandurin"] um anything can cloud your mind what does that even mean are you serious or are you trolling me here?I do not troll. You may not agree with me...but that does not equal trolling. I don't agree with your stance but I haven't called you a troll now have I? I don't find any benefit to legalizing substances that are used solely for affecting the brain. Which is why weed is used. it also affects the body, like ibuprofenIt's a bit different than ibuprofen now Jan. Ibuprofen doesn't have much effect...unless I suppose one abuses it to the point of overdosing. It doesn't even do what it's supposed to do. No one would waste money or the possibility of legal problems for weed if it had effects like Ibuprofen.:lol:
[QUOTE="Stanley09"] why should you be able to dictate how others live their lives? That's what the law does, buddy. You cant murder people. You cant sell heroin to kids. You cant smoke if you're only 11. You cant put a little rum in your juice if you're only 15. You need a license if you want to drive. Again if you want to debate the nature of the law and the state itself, that's fine, but to re-iterate yet again - this topic is about weed.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I do not troll. You may not agree with me...but that does not equal trolling. I don't agree with your stance but I haven't called you a troll now have I? I don't find any benefit to legalizing substances that are used solely for affecting the brain. Which is why weed is used. SeraphimGoddess
You always assume that when someone calls you a troll that it's just because they don't agree with you. Did you read his question?
That seems to the reason....:|
Edit: and only one group of people use that term when talking with me. A very specific group.
But marijuana users are not a major interest to cops. Then why bother having laws prohibiting it Because society deems it something they don't want legal. It's that simple.
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="Stanley09"] why should you be able to dictate how others live their lives? That's what the law does, buddy. You cant murder people. You cant sell heroin to kids. You cant smoke if you're only 11. You cant put a little rum in your juice if you're only 15. You need a license if you want to drive. Again if you want to debate the nature of the law and the state itself, that's fine, but to re-iterate yet again - this topic is about weed. Actually you can smoke if your 11, you just cant buy it. How is someone who smokes weed or does drugs affect you?
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Well, why shouldn't it be? How does weed being illegal solve anything? Stanley09
It prevents it from being readily available to more people. I don't agree at all with the way weed is policed and how the courts handle weed users, but from my own experiences i've simply concluded that it's something which should be readily available to as few people as possible. It's not good. So i support it being illegal because it achieves that end, albeit through flawed means which could definitely be improved upon. why should you be able to dictate how others live their lives? So your logic is: "It's not good for me so it's not good for anyone else"? This is a very dangerous outlook.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Because society deems it something they don't want legal. It's that simple. ToppledPillars
So because the majority thinks its bad then one shouldn't be able to use it? Yay populism That is kind of how society and the legal system works....yes. If you don't like a societies laws then of course no one is forcing you to remain under their dominion.
[QUOTE="Stanley09"] why should you be able to dictate how others live their lives?Ninja-Hippo
That's what the law does, buddy. You cant murder people. You cant sell heroin to kids. You cant smoke if you're only 11. You cant put a little rum in your juice if you're only 15. You need a license if you want to drive. Again if you want to debate the nature of the law and the state itself, that's fine, but to re-iterate yet again - this topic is about weed. Your reply does not coincide with his arguemnt. We know thats what laws do. That does't disprove that someone should have the right to smoke a joint if it does almost no harm to them. Driving when you're 10 years of age is ilegal b/c you're phycally not able to do it and mentally not ready. An adult can make his own decisions.
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