When people say all drugs should be legal, do they realize how wrong that is?

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I haven't.

worlock77

I'm not sure you quite understand the term.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

 

So as long as something doesnt neessarily harm others, it should be legal? so i guess high powered explosives should be legally available to your average citizen?

BeardMaster

You're a big fan of the false equivalence aren't you?

says the guy trying to compare crack rocks to alcohol. This is halrious.

my false equivalencies are made in an attempt to force you to recognize your false equivalencies, which is what your entire argument is based on. Im not sure what you think the "alcohol and tobacco are legal so all drugs should be legal" argument is, if not the spitting image of a false equivalency.

Crack and alcohol are both drugs. It's a valid comparison. And I never made the argument that alcohol and tobacco are legal so all drugs should be legal.

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

You're a big fan of the false equivalence aren't you?

worlock77

says the guy trying to compare crack rocks to alcohol. This is halrious.

my false equivalencies are made in an attempt to force you to recognize your false equivalencies, which is what your entire argument is based on. Im not sure what you think the "alcohol and tobacco are legal so all drugs should be legal" argument is, if not the spitting image of a false equivalency.

Crack and alcohol are both drugs. It's a valid comparison. And I never made the argument that alcohol and tobacco are legal so all drugs should be legal.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

says the guy trying to compare crack rocks to alcohol. This is halrious.

 

my false equivalencies are made in an attempt to force you to recognize your false equivalencies, which is what your entire argument is based on. Im not sure what you think the "alcohol and tobacco are legal so all drugs should be legal" argument is, if not the spitting image of a false equivalency.

Ace6301

Crack and alcohol are both drugs. It's a valid comparison. And I never made the argument that alcohol and tobacco are legal so all drugs should be legal.

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Crack and alcohol are both drugs. It's a valid comparison. And I never made the argument that alcohol and tobacco are legal so all drugs should be legal.

worlock77

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

Instead of analogies, you guys can argue with facts.

And the facts show the decriminilizing drugs has a positive impact.

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

worlock77

Instead of analogies, you guys can argue with facts.

And the facts show the decriminilizing drugs has a positive impact.

XaosII

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Crack and alcohol are both drugs. It's a valid comparison. And I never made the argument that alcohol and tobacco are legal so all drugs should be legal.

worlock77

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

comparing is fine, equating them because of a common characteristic and ignoring all the differences... is the definition of false equivalency.

Instead of analogies, you guys can argue with facts.

And the facts show the decriminilizing drugs has a positive impact.

XaosII

I am against having that stuff readily available for whomever wants it. This goes for prescription stuff too.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] Well I guess when you believe a line of coke is the equivalent to a beer you can get away with that sort of belief. Remember earlier when you got all hissy about me "comparing apples to oranges" (and then how I was totally right about what you were going for)? Well you're comparing bath salts to beers. Ace6301

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

So how is comparing two drugs an invalid comparison? 

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

Aljosa23

Oh yes, you most certainly can become physically dependant on alcohol.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

worlock77

So how is comparing two drugs an invalid comparison? 

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

worlock77

Oh yes, you most certainly can become physically dependant on alcohol.

and people can become physically addicted to caffeine and sugar.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

So comparing one chemical mood-altering substance to another isn't valid?

worlock77

Oh yes, you most certainly can become physically dependant on alcohol.

mhmm

You can pretty much die - literally - during withdrawal in the more extreme cases.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Considering alcohol has nowhere near the same level of addictive properties as the more serious ones and you can't become physically dependent on it, I'd say it's not the best comparison you can make.

BeardMaster

Oh yes, you most certainly can become physically dependant on alcohol.

and people can become physically addicted to caffeine and sugar.

Last time I went from drinking a pot of coffee a day (after a few years of doing so) to drinking none, by accident for a few months (kept forgetting to buy coffee), I didn't die. I was a little sluggish when taking notes in class I think.

Let's take the false equivalencies down a notch.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

Considering alcohol has nowhere near the same level of addictive properties as the more serious ones and you can't become physically dependent on it, I'd say it's not the best comparison you can make.

worlock77

Oh yes, you most certainly can become physically dependant on alcohol.

Indeed. It is actually one of the physical dependencies for which the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal, along with opiates and benzos.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Considering alcohol has nowhere near the same level of addictive properties as the more serious ones and you can't become physically dependent on it, I'd say it's not the best comparison you can make.

dude_brahmski

Oh yes, you most certainly can become physically dependant on alcohol.

mhmm

You can pretty much die - literally - during withdrawal in the more extreme cases.

What are the benefits of having all drugs be legal and readily available? I'm not reading this whole thread but I know taking the power out of drug cartels is said a lot (not even sure that would happen) but what else? Gimme the cliffs pls

I am very glad that I am not a habit-forming type. I have to quit smoking next week for the semester, and it won't really be a big deal.

I am very glad that I am not a habit-forming type. I have to quit smoking next week for the semester, and it won't really be a big deal.

dude_brahmski

What are the benefits of having all drugs be legal and readily available? I'm not reading this whole thread but I know taking the power out of drug cartels is said a lot (not even sure that would happen) but what else? Gimme the cliffs pls

Aljosa23

Increasing the likelihood for problematic drug users to seek help.

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

I am very glad that I am not a habit-forming type. I have to quit smoking next week for the semester, and it won't really be a big deal.

Rich3232

Eh, it is mildly annoying for me the first day or two, but I can usually distract myself with more interesting things. Interestingly, it's easier for me to quit when I am not busy (aka, not working or schooling), though I suppose that has to do with stress.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Considering alcohol has nowhere near the same level of addictive properties as the more serious ones and you can't become physically dependent on it, I'd say it's not the best comparison you can make.

BeardMaster

Oh yes, you most certainly can become physically dependant on alcohol.

and people can become physically addicted to caffeine and sugar.

Let me know next time you hear of someone having a seizure or dying from coffee withdrawl.

Truth be told, I wouldn't even know that caffeine withdrawal was a real thing if the internet didn't tell me so.

What are the benefits of having all drugs be legal and readily available? I'm not reading this whole thread but I know taking the power out of drug cartels is said a lot (not even sure that would happen) but what else? Gimme the cliffs pls

Aljosa23

Crime (not related to drug possession) goes down. Adult use of drugs goes up. Teenage use of drugs goes down. Rehabilitation rates shoots up dramatically. HIV transmission through drugs plummets dramatically. Cost of judicial services (incarceration, police, and processing) goes way down. Cost of rehabilitation services goes up.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="ad1x2"]I honestly could care less if pot was legal and most people who talk about legalizing pot aren't going around saying coke or heroin should be legal too. Only a moron would suggest the hard drugs should be legal.Capitan_Kid

1. You are clearly unaware of prescription drug abuse.

2. You want to lock up people with a medical condition (as you mentioned in another post). You don't give a sh!t about people.

God damn, pancake, you are a really daft kunt.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

What are the benefits of having all drugs be legal and readily available? I'm not reading this whole thread but I know taking the power out of drug cartels is said a lot (not even sure that would happen) but what else? Gimme the cliffs pls

XaosII

Crime (not related to drug possession) goes down. Adult use of drugs goes up. Teenage use of drugs goes down. Rehabilitation rates shoots up dramatically. HIV transmission through drugs plummets dramatically. Cost of judicial services (incarceration, police, and processing) goes way down. Cost of rehabilitation services goes up.

Drugs still aren't readily available in Portugal though.Ace6301

Sauce?

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

What are the benefits of having all drugs be legal and readily available? I'm not reading this whole thread but I know taking the power out of drug cartels is said a lot (not even sure that would happen) but what else? Gimme the cliffs pls

Ace6301

Crime (not related to drug possession) goes down. Adult use of drugs goes up. Teenage use of drugs goes down. Rehabilitation rates shoots up dramatically. HIV transmission through drugs plummets dramatically. Cost of judicial services (incarceration, police, and processing) goes way down. Cost of rehabilitation services goes up.

Yes, drugs arent legalized in Portugal, they are just decriminalized.

Its the best data we have.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Drugs still aren't readily available in Portugal though.dude_brahmski

Sauce?

[QUOTE="Rich3232"][QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

I am very glad that I am not a habit-forming type. I have to quit smoking next week for the semester, and it won't really be a big deal.

dude_brahmski

Eh, it is mildly annoying for me the first day or two, but I can usually distract myself with more interesting things. Interestingly, it's easier for me to quit when I am not busy (aka, not working or schooling), though I suppose that has to do with stress.

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Drugs still aren't readily available in Portugal though.Ace6301

Sauce?

That really isn't awfully meaningful.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

Sauce?

dude_brahmski

That really isn't awfully meaningful.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

Sauce?

dude_brahmski

That really isn't awfully meaningful.

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

[QUOTE="Rich3232"] Nicotine is a bitch to quit so I know those feelings. It's also my favorite (legal) drug weirdly enough. Rich3232

Eh, it is mildly annoying for me the first day or two, but I can usually distract myself with more interesting things. Interestingly, it's easier for me to quit when I am not busy (aka, not working or schooling), though I suppose that has to do with stress.

When not doing the school/work thing, I tend to have a pretty remarkable control over the things I do. (A long day at work will have me drinking a pot of coffee in the morning, smoking a few cigarettes and drinking a few beers at the end of the day). I can vidya/read/internet, etc, to entertain self. I try to avoid having too much beer, though, 'cos that'll toss all of that out the window. Willpower drops to zero.

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] They're illegal still, it says so in the articles that XaosII posted, which I would consider as not being readily available.Ace6301

That really isn't awfully meaningful.

As a comparison, it really doesn't mean anything. It is technically "illegal." In and of itself, that is all. Drugs could be quite accessible in actuality independent of legal status. It is an unknown as far as this conversation is concerned, but I suppose it is safe to say that it is less accessible than a hypothetical instance of a country where I walk down the street to 7/11 to pick up a kilo of coke, but probably considerably more accessible than what we have now, especially considering that methods of dealing this stuff in a manner which minimizes legal exposure leaves more room than the current system in the U.S.

"Less accessible than legalization" would have been a better qualifier. At the very least, I wouldn't go on a rant about something that we probably already agree on.

[QUOTE="Rich3232"][QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

Eh, it is mildly annoying for me the first day or two, but I can usually distract myself with more interesting things. Interestingly, it's easier for me to quit when I am not busy (aka, not working or schooling), though I suppose that has to do with stress.

dude_brahmski

When not doing the school/work thing, I tend to have a pretty remarkable control over the things I do. (A long day at work will have me drinking a pot of coffee in the morning, smoking a few cigarettes and drinking a few beers at the end of the day). I can vidya/read/internet, etc, to entertain self. I try to avoid having too much beer, though, 'cos that'll toss all of that out the window. Willpower drops to zero.

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

[QUOTE="Rich3232"] Interesting......it's the opposite for me. Easier for me to quit if I am busy since when I get bored, I have a tendency to just have a smoke to "spice" things up. Rich3232

When not doing the school/work thing, I tend to have a pretty remarkable control over the things I do. (A long day at work will have me drinking a pot of coffee in the morning, smoking a few cigarettes and drinking a few beers at the end of the day). I can vidya/read/internet, etc, to entertain self. I try to avoid having too much beer, though, 'cos that'll toss all of that out the window. Willpower drops to zero.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

That really isn't awfully meaningful.

dude_brahmski

As a comparison, it really doesn't mean anything. It is technically "illegal." In and of itself, that is all. Drugs could be quite accessible in actuality independent of legal status. It is an unknown as far as this conversation is concerned, but I suppose it is safe to say that it is less accessible than a hypothetical instance of a country where I walk down the street to 7/11 to pick up a kilo of coke, but probably considerably more accessible than what we have now, especially considering that methods of dealing this stuff in a manner which minimizes legal exposure leaves more room than the current system in the U.S.

"Less accessible than legalization" would have been a better qualifier. At the very least, I wouldn't go on a rant about something that we probably already agree on.

God is a massive cockhead for making smoking carcinogenic and hell on the lungs.

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] No, but comparisons are all we have.Ace6301

As a comparison, it really doesn't mean anything. It is technically "illegal." In and of itself, that is all. Drugs could be quite accessible in actuality independent of legal status. It is an unknown as far as this conversation is concerned, but I suppose it is safe to say that it is less accessible than a hypothetical instance of a country where I walk down the street to 7/11 to pick up a kilo of coke, but probably considerably more accessible than what we have now, especially considering that methods of dealing this stuff in a manner which minimizes legal exposure leaves more room than the current system in the U.S.

"Less accessible than legalization" would have been a better qualifier. At the very least, I wouldn't go on a rant about something that we probably already agree on.

Hence "less."

watever lets stop this b4 it gets silly

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

As a comparison, it really doesn't mean anything. It is technically "illegal." In and of itself, that is all. Drugs could be quite accessible in actuality independent of legal status. It is an unknown as far as this conversation is concerned, but I suppose it is safe to say that it is less accessible than a hypothetical instance of a country where I walk down the street to 7/11 to pick up a kilo of coke, but probably considerably more accessible than what we have now, especially considering that methods of dealing this stuff in a manner which minimizes legal exposure leaves more room than the current system in the U.S.

"Less accessible than legalization" would have been a better qualifier. At the very least, I wouldn't go on a rant about something that we probably already agree on.

dude_brahmski

Hence "less."

watever lets stop this b4 it gets silly

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] I can't really read Aljosa's post as meaning anything other than complete legalization.Ace6301

Hence "less."

watever lets stop this b4 it gets silly

ill give u my drugs when you pry them from my cold, dead bloodstream.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

Hence "less."

watever lets stop this b4 it gets silly

dude_brahmski

ill give u my drugs when you pry them from my cold, dead bloodstream.

or if you get arrested for possession

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] No this thread is already a cluster **** of misunderstandings. Lets continue.lostrib

ill give u my drugs when you pry them from my cold, dead bloodstream.

or if you get arrested for possession

Were you born an idiot, or did some tragedy befall you?

[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] Are you familiar with things like Oxycontin, Vicodin and Percocet? They are as "hard" as heroin and perfectly legal to obtain via prescription. Or, if you have a couple bucks, from any number of black markets on the street.dude_brahmski

1. You are clearly unaware of prescription drug abuse.

2. You want to lock up people with a medical condition (as you mentioned in another post). You don't give a sh!t about people.

God damn, pancake, you are a really daft kunt.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

ill give u my drugs when you pry them from my cold, dead bloodstream.

dude_brahmski

or if you get arrested for possession

Were you born an idiot, or did some tragedy befall you?

you're right, technically it would be taking rather than giving.  

I am aware of prescription drug abuse. Legalizing all drugs isnt going to help that situation at all. You're giving the masses fire and they are going to get burned. Drug abuse may be a disease but it is a disease brought upon someone through irresponsibility. Locking them up and helping learn from their mistakes is just the price they pay. Its not daft, its Justice. Capitan_Kid

We dont yet know about full legalization, but decriminalization of drugs, with the data that we know so far, has actually helped that situation quite a lot.

Also, do you really believe that incarceration reduces drug use?

[QUOTE="dude_brahmski"]

[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"] Youre ignoring that these PERSCRIPTION drugs are only given to people with conditions causing severe pain and that recently the FDA has limited the amount of acetaminophen put in perscription drugs to help avoid stuff like this. These painkillers serve a greater purpose. Heroin, crack, and meth dont. You cant just compare them. Capitan_Kid

1. You are clearly unaware of prescription drug abuse.

2. You want to lock up people with a medical condition (as you mentioned in another post). You don't give a sh!t about people.

God damn, pancake, you are a really daft kunt.

the masses? wtf, cut it out with your behavior controllist rhetoric bullshit