Why dont YOU believe in God?

Bible talks about -the world being circle...when at those times clearly everyone thought it was flat... Acez626

You're mis-informed. Many ancient cultures knew the Earth was a sphere. Eratosthenes (276 BCE - 194 BCE) actually measured the size of the Earth as a sphere accurately down to 2% variance.

Perhaps both are right. :shock: But really, there is truth to the metaphors, why is the world spinning not to be considered a metaphor.mindstorm

We now know that the Earth is not a circle, and it does spin.

[QUOTE="Acez626"] Bible talks about -the world being circle...when at those times clearly everyone thought it was flat... br0kenrabbit

You're mis-informed. Many ancient cultures knew the Earth was a sphere. Eratosthenes (276 BCE - 194 BCE) actually measured the size of the Earth as a sphere accurately down to 2% variance.

To be fair, Isaiah was written between 800 and 600 BCE.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Perhaps both are right. :shock: But really, there is truth to the metaphors, why is the world spinning not to be considered a metaphor.RationalAtheist

We now know that the Earth is not a circle, and it does spin.

Certain words did not appear in my statement. Perhaps a clearer way of putting it would be this. But really, if there is truth to metaphors, why is it that the circle of the earth cannot be a metaphor for the earth spinning? That stated, whether argument one takes I tend to not try turn poetic passages from Scripture into something they are not - in this case a scientific understanding of the world rather than an image for the nature of God.mindstorm

What have circles got to do with spinning?

What problems do you face when you read too much into metaphors?

It's a waste of time.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="Acez626"] Bible talks about -the world being circle...when at those times clearly everyone thought it was flat... RationalAtheist

You're mis-informed. Many ancient cultures knew the Earth was a sphere. Eratosthenes (276 BCE - 194 BCE) actually measured the size of the Earth as a sphere accurately down to 2% variance.

To be fair, Isaiah was written between 800 and 600 BCE.

But the idea of the Earth as a sphere predates Eratosthenes; he just accurately measured it.

RationalAtheist

I think the idea of a benevolent sky wizard that loves and hates me is about as realistic as Harry Potter.

Yes, what is your evidence for this, aside from an unsubstantiated ad-polulem argument?

RationalAtheist

I don't believe in God because ...

Oh wait.

I do.

Perhaps I'll pretend. I don't believe in God because if many people have differing views of him then it is inconceivable for any of them to even be partially correct.

Am I doing it right?

mindstorm

No, it's more because a lot of religions are blatant rip offs of old pagan myths.

The thing that really made me start to question things was when I found out that some extreme Christians believe the Earth is only 6000 or so years old. Thanks to things like carbon-dating, science has proven that the Earth is at least 3.5 billion years old. This amount of time is what really made me stop believing in religion; it made me realize that things like evolution and abiogenesis are completely possible and probable. To anyone who doesn't know what abiogenesis is, I strongly recommend this video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9egFranklinstein

Thanks to things like carbon-dating, science has proven that the Earth is at least 3.5 billion years old. Franklinstein

I haven't been shown substantial evidence to support any deity existing. I'm going to need more than just an outdated book to convince me, there's plenty of those going around and they mention many gods. HoolaHoopMan

The thing that really made me start to question things was when I found out that some extreme Christians believe the Earth is only 6000 or so years old. Thanks to things like carbon-dating, science has proven that the Earth is at least 3.5 billion years old. This amount of time is what really made me stop believing in religion; it made me realize that things like evolution and abiogenesis are completely possible and probable. To anyone who doesn't know what abiogenesis is, I strongly recommend this video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9egFranklinstein

The magnitude of the world and the universe leads me to be think there is a Creator. And, with the use of cause and effect, it is easy to justify the existence of a God.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]I haven't been shown substantial evidence to support any deity existing. I'm going to need more than just an outdated book to convince me, there's plenty of those going around and they mention many gods. Acez626

I read the "facts" and decided it was bat crap crazy. While I understand others need to have faith in something, I have no need in it myself. In the end its what ever makes you happy. I am happy that I don't have to be a servent to something that is "all powerfull" that needs to be worshiped for me to live a "good life" and prefer to think I can make my own mind up on something that I should or should not do. If I go to hell for thinking that....well so be it. I would not want to go to a place that demands my free thought to be enlightend.

The magnitude of the world and the universe leads me to be think there is a Creator. And, with the use of cause and effect, it is easy to justify the existence of a God.

kingkong0124

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]The thing that really made me start to question things was when I found out that some extreme Christians believe the Earth is only 6000 or so years old. Thanks to things like carbon-dating, science has proven that the Earth is at least 3.5 billion years old. This amount of time is what really made me stop believing in religion; it made me realize that things like evolution and abiogenesis are completely possible and probable. To anyone who doesn't know what abiogenesis is, I strongly recommend this video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9egthemajormayor

What are you talking about? Doesn't abiogenesis go a fair way in excusing a creator?

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]The thing that really made me start to question things was when I found out that some extreme Christians believe the Earth is only 6000 or so years old. Thanks to things like carbon-dating, science has proven that the Earth is at least 3.5 billion years old. This amount of time is what really made me stop believing in religion; it made me realize that things like evolution and abiogenesis are completely possible and probable. To anyone who doesn't know what abiogenesis is, I strongly recommend this video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9egAcez626

Carbon dating isn't usually used for anything past 60,000 years as carbon has a pretty short half-life. It also isn't widely used in aquatic samples as carbon sequestration in those environments is vastly different from terrestrial sources.

It is accurate though but it definately isn't used to date the age of the Earth.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Franklinstein"]The thing that really made me start to question things was when I found out that some extreme Christians believe the Earth is only 6000 or so years old. Thanks to things like carbon-dating, science has proven that the Earth is at least 3.5 billion years old. This amount of time is what really made me stop believing in religion; it made me realize that things like evolution and abiogenesis are completely possible and probable. To anyone who doesn't know what abiogenesis is, I strongly recommend this video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9egRationalAtheist

What are you talking about? Doesn't abiogenesis go a fair way in excusing a creator?

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

The magnitude of the world and the universe leads me to be think there is a Creator. And, with the use of cause and effect, it is easy to justify the existence of a God.

HoolaHoopMan

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

The magnitude of the world and the universe leads me to be think there is a Creator. And, with the use of cause and effect, it is easy to justify the existence of a God.

kingkong0124

and how do you know that causation ONLY applies to our universe?

I'm not sure what you mean with excusing. I assume you mean negating. And no it does not. How?themajormayor

You tell me why abiogenesis would indicate a creator.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"] Except when causality is applied to your 'Creator'. HoolaHoopMan

and how do you know that causation ONLY applies to our universe?

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]I'm not sure what you mean with excusing. I assume you mean negating. And no it does not. How?RationalAtheist

You tell me why abiogenesis would indicate a creator.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] The law of cause and effect only affects this universe. Since God is effectively outside of this universe, all the laws of science that we have found only apply to this universe, not God. kingkong0124

and how do you know that causation ONLY applies to our universe?

:? Did you even understand my question?

You said that cause and effect only apply to our universe and not God, I asked you how you know this?

I never said causation applies to everything, I'm merely asking you to substantiate your claim.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

and how do you know that causation ONLY applies to our universe?

HoolaHoopMan

:? Did you even understand my question?

You said that cause and effect only apply to our universe and not God, I asked you how you know this?

I never said it did. themajormayor

I think you clearly inferred it, when you said this in response to another post about abiogenesis and belief in God:

Coming to the conclusion that God doesn't exist because of that is kinda... well baseless.themajormayor

Such words would imply you do have a basis for thinking God is associated with abiogenesis.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] This is failure in logic... we only know that causation applies to this universe, not otherwise. We know that gravity applies to this universe and we don't have enough evidence to say that it applies outside of it. kingkong0124

:? Did you even understand my question?

You said that cause and effect only apply to our universe and not God, I asked you how you know this?

And how do you know that God isn't subject to some form of causality?

You're getting there.

But then again perhaps not.

In this recent thread you wrote, you even relate "hero stories" like those in Mario to Jesus...

http://uk.gamespot.com/unions/CU/forums/29164659/the-gospel-according-to-...-mario

RationalAtheist

To be fair, the christian idea of a battle of 'good' vs. 'evil' can be seen in even the most recent Hollywood films, so it's not as far-fetched as it may seem. The only problem here is that Mario games are created by a company from a non-christian country. Then again, it might've been influenced by Hollywood customs.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]I never said it did. RationalAtheist

I think you clearly inferred it, when you said this in response to another post about abiogenesis and belief in God:

Coming to the conclusion that God doesn't exist because of that is kinda... well baseless.themajormayor

Such words would imply you do have a basis for thinking God is associated with abiogenesis.

No I did not. I was merely saying that basing your non-belief on abiogenesis is kinda logically wrong since they're not incompatible. I never said anything about basing your belief in God on abiogenesis.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

:? Did you even understand my question?

You said that cause and effect only apply to our universe and not God, I asked you how you know this?

HoolaHoopMan

And how do you know that God isn't subject to some form of causality?

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] We know that cause and effect exists in this universe? The Big Bang, like all other things, needs to have been caused by something else. kingkong0124

And how do you know that God isn't subject to some form of causality?

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

And how do you know that God isn't subject to some form of causality?

Toxic-Seahorse

[QUOTE="Toxic-Seahorse"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"] God is outside of the universe he created, the laws do not apply to him. All scientific laws that we know of have applied only to this universe, not anything outside of it. We don't have enough evidence to say that they affect things outside, like God. Saying things like that is going against conventional logic. themajormayor

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

And how do you know that God isn't subject to some form of causality?

Toxic-Seahorse

God is outside of the universe he created, the laws do not apply to him. All scientific laws that we know of have applied only to this universe, not anything outside of it. We don't have enough evidence to say that they affect things outside, like God. kingkong0124

And yet you're assuming all of this. You have no idea if causality exists outside our universe or if EVERYTHING is subject to some form of it. The only argument you can make of this is 'because I said so'.

There's nothing to suggest that the universe needed a creator anymore than your creator needed one as well.

No I did not. I was merely saying that basing your non-belief on abiogenesis is kinda logically wrong since they're not incompatible. I never said anything about basing your belief in God on abiogenesis.

themajormayor

I can't see how belief in most Gods is logically compatible with abiogenesis.

You did say something about basing your belief in God on abiogenesis. You said it was "kinda ...well baseless". I was enquiring why you wrote that. Rather then all the defensiveness and denial, why not state what you actually do think.

[QUOTE="Toxic-Seahorse"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"] God is outside of the universe he created, the laws do not apply to him. All scientific laws that we know of have applied only to this universe, not anything outside of it. We don't have enough evidence to say that they affect things outside, like God. Saying things like that is going against conventional logic. kingkong0124