Why Nice Guys Finish Last

Just an article I read on the yahoo homepage. And yes I know its a wall of text, but China hasn't called yet, so there's no point complaining about it.

Dating Secret Exposed: Why Nice Guys Finish Last

By April MasiniSpecial to Yahoo!

PersonalsUpdated: Jun 20, 2008

"Are you a nice guy who has always wondered why the cocky guy -- the one who barely appears interested in the girl -- is usually the one who gets the girl? Have you suffered from hearing the words, "You're a really nice guy, but I only like you as a friend," from a woman who you would do (or may, in fact, have already done) just about anything and everything for -- only to turn around and watch her date (or even chase) a guy who treats her like she's nothing special? And are you stumped wondering why she would date a guy who treats her like that when she could have you who would treat her like a princess and give her everything she wants? Well, you better brace yourself because I'm going to tell you a couple of secrets that you might not want to hear. First, "nice" equates with boring and predictable. Look up "nice" in the dictionary and you find: pleasant; agreeable; satisfactory. In other words, average -- not exceptional, not exciting, and not sexy.I'll bet you've never heard a woman say she didn't want to date a guy because he was too confident, too passionate, or too exciting -- have you? But, I'll bet you have heard women say things like, "He's such a nice guy. He's so sweet and he's always there for me, but I only like him as a friend." Or, "He's such a good guy -- kind, thoughtful, generous, honest, loyal -- but there's no chemistry. He just doesn't turn me on." Sadly, I hear it all the time. The fact is, Mr. Nice Guy, you cannot bore a woman into feeling attracted to you or into wanting to date you. And as obvious as that sounds, if you are one of those guys I described that is exactly what you are trying to do. And it won't work. Please understand that I am not suggesting that you mistreat women or disrespect them in any way.

What I suggesting is that you value and respect yourself more. To illustrate what I mean: The answer to the question, "Why does the guy who doesn't appear to care as much about the girl get the girl?" is simple: The nice guy cares too much, too soon. He has made the woman too important and too valuable and it shows in everything he says and does. He is too available, too eager to please, too accommodating, and he gives too much -- all without getting anything in return. By doing so, he has made himself appear desperate, insecure, needy of this woman's attention, affection, and approval -- and he has stripped himself of any value in her eyes. After all, if he's already doing and giving everything, without her doing or giving anything - why would she value him? She won't. She is not going to value him any more than he values himself. What she is going to do is look for someone else, someone who she perceives as being more worthy, more confident, and more valuable. It works like this:

Once you need something, or you want it too badly, you forfeit your strength and lose all power of negotiation. You are in a position of weakness and you are perceived as weak. Someone (or something) else is in control of you, the situation, and it's outcome. Men in this situation appear to be anything but confident, strong, and exciting. More, they are perceived as being unworthy and as lacking value. Translation: Things that are easily acquired, obtained, or maintained, without any effort or sacrifice, lack value... it's human nature. The secret to why the cocky guy wins with women, over the nice guy, is that he is perceived as being a stronger, more confident guy with more value. How? He never invests everything -- his entire being, ego, and self-worth in what one woman's response or reaction to him is. He doesn't gush with compliments; he isn't always available; he doesn't give too much; and he knows he isn't going to die if a woman says "no" to him. More, his attitude is, yeah, I'd like to go out with you, but if I can't, that's OK -- I'm a busy guy, with exciting things going on, and lots of other options."

I finish last, but the girls think thats a good thing ;)Premier1101

Anyway, thats true.

OMG, this definatly just helped me out alot in the situation I'm currently in.USSJAndrew

strangely I'm in the same boat.

Damn you the womanly mind! :x

How many times have I told you guys that already with all those "nice guys finish last threads" sheesh. Maybe this time it will sink into your guy's heads and we wont see those threads anymore. But thats just wishful thinking on my part.

OMG, this definatly just helped me out alot in the situation I'm currently in.USSJAndrew

+1 nerd.

Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Video_Game_King

OMG. How many times do we have to say (even the article) that it doesnt mean you become a jerk.

Yeah but I know that their are lots of guys who fall in the nice catogory but can still be exciting and funny. That article is not specific enough and confines every guy into to catogories and every girl into one. you can be funny spontanious exciting and still be shy or put someone you care abouts needs ahead of yours.

sometimes it depends on who your confprtable with. I can see how being a spineless dull pushover is boring but how is putting her in front of yourself boring? I thought love was about being selfless

So what the article is saying is to feign not caring about who you want to ****? So i see dating is nothing more than ritualistic displays of strength, opinions, submission, possesion, talent and genetics. Nothing more nothing less. I need a drink.

[QUOTE="USSJAndrew"]OMG, this definatly just helped me out alot in the situation I'm currently in.clyde46

strangely I'm in the same boat.

same here fellas.

Fortunately for me, my gal loves that i'm the "nice guy."bluezy

Well we Canadians are like that :D

How many times have I told you guys that already with all those "nice guys finish last threads" sheesh. Maybe this time it will sink into your guy's heads and we wont see those threads anymore. But thats just wishful thinking on my part.

Sajedene

Hey, we don't know how to attract women. The best bet we have is "being nice", mainly because our logic follows like this:

Girls do not like being treated like utter crap or being beaten severely.
Therefore, they must like the opposite of that.

Fairly sound logic, considering we have no f'ing clue as to what a woman likes.

How many times have I told you guys that already with all those "nice guys finish last threads" sheesh. Maybe this time it will sink into your guy's heads and we wont see those threads anymore. But thats just wishful thinking on my part.

Sajedene

'sup *****? Wanna hang out some time?

Yeah but I know that their are lots of guys who fall in the nice catogory but can still be exciting and funny. That article is not specific enough and confines every guy into to catogories and every girl into one. you can be funny spontanious exciting and still be shy or put someone you care abouts needs ahead of yours.

sometimes it depends on who your confprtable with. I can see how being a spineless dull pushover is boring but how is putting her in front of yourself boring? I thought love was about being selfless

So what the article is saying is to feign not caring about who you want to ****? So i see dating is nothing more than ritualistic displays of strength, opinions, submission, possesion, talent and genetics. Nothing more nothing less. I need a drink.

peppersfan2

Uh yeah.

You put out too much too soon even before the first date then whats the point?

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Sajedene

OMG. How many times do we have to say (even the article) that it doesnt mean you become a jerk.

Jerks are often confident. When was the last time you saw somebody be an utter a-hole, yet do it nervously? The ideas contrast.

[QUOTE="bluezy"]Fortunately for me, my gal loves that i'm the "nice guy."CoreyNT

Well we Canadians are like that :D

agreed.:D

;o

what the hell is that XD

I finish last, but the girls think thats a good thing ;)Premier1101

OH MY GOD!!! Talk about nailing down a response! You sir deserve 10 cookies :D

Just an article I read on the yahoo homepage. And yes I know its a wall of text, but China hasn't called yet, so there's no point complaining about it.

Dating Secret Exposed: Why Nice Guys Finish Last

By April MasiniSpecial to Yahoo!

PersonalsUpdated: Jun 20, 2008

"Are you a nice guy who has always wondered why the cocky guy -- the one who barely appears interested in the girl -- is usually the one who gets the girl?because women get off on drama and being mistreated; Ive seen it happen. Its not just the shalow guys girls like, it jerks and aholes theyre attracted to. Have you suffered from hearing the words, "You're a really nice guy, but I only like you as a friend," from a woman who you would do (or may, in fact, have already done) just about anything and everything for -- only to turn around and watch her date (or even chase) a guy who treats her like she's nothing special? And are you stumped wondering why she would date a guy who treats her like that when she could have you who would treat her like a princess and give her everything she wants? Well, you better brace yourself because I'm going to tell you a couple of secrets that you might not want to hear. First, "nice" equates with boring and predictable. Look up "nice" in the dictionary and you find: pleasant; agreeable; satisfactory. In other words, average -- not exceptional, not exciting, and not sexyI fail to see how being a nice guy is average; based on this article, most guys girls date dont pay them the attention they deserve. Therefore, a nice guy is above average.I'll bet you've never heard a woman say she didn't want to date a guy because he was too confident, too passionate, or too exciting -- have you? But, I'll bet you have heard women say things like, "He's such a nice guy. He's so sweet and he's always there for me, but I only like him as a friend." Example one of why the problem is with the woman, and not the man...its OK, this generally applies to the young ladies. You look at girls post-college and they start to see the light Or, "He's such a good guy -- kind, thoughtful, generous, honest, loyal -- but there's no chemistry. He just doesn't turn me on." Sadly, I hear it all the time. The fact is, Mr. Nice Guy, you cannot bore a woman into feeling attracted to you or into wanting to date you What is boring about taking a girl wine tasting for a whole day, off roading, then treating her to a great dinner? My last girlfriend seemed to find it "agreeable, pleasant, etc" and exciting. And as obvious as that sounds, if you are one of those guys I described that is exactly what you are trying to do. And it won't work. Please understand that I am not suggesting that you mistreat women or disrespect them in any way. Actually, you are...I know exactly what you are trying to say, and the men you describe that get the girls do treat their ladies with disrespect.

What I suggesting is that you value and respect yourself more. To illustrate what I mean: The answer to the question, "Why does the guy who doesn't appear to care as much about the girl get the girl?" is simple: The nice guy cares too much, too soon. He has made the woman too important and too valuable hmmmm so nice guys "put the p**** on the pedastal? Thats a very original thought....and it shows in everything he says and does. He is too available, too eager to please, too accommodating, and he gives too much -- all without getting anything in return. By doing so, he has made himself appear desperate, insecure, needy of this woman's attention, affection, and approval -- and he has stripped himself of any value in her eyes. After all, if he's already doing and giving everything, without her doing or giving anything - why would she value him? She won't. She is not going to value him any more than he values himself. What she is going to do is look for someone else, someone who she perceives as being more worthy, more confident, and more valuable. What you are describing in this pararaph is not a nice guy, but a wimp: there is a clear, huge difference between the two and it saddens me that you think the two types of guys are so similiar. A wimp surrenders control to get what he wants. A nice guy knows what he wants and goes after it, but he remains a gentleman throughout his pursuit. It works like this:

Once you need something, or you want it too badly, you forfeit your strength and lose all power of negotiation. You are in a position of weakness and you are perceived as weak. Someone (or something) else is in control of you, the situation, and it's outcome. Men in this situation appear to be anything but confident, strong, and exciting. More, they are perceived as being unworthy and as lacking value. Translation: Things that are easily acquired, obtained, or maintained, without any effort or sacrifice, lack value... it's human nature. The secret to why the cocky guy wins with women, over the nice guy, is that he is perceived as being a stronger, more confident guy with more value. How? He never invests everything -- his entire being, ego, and self-worth in what one woman's response or reaction to him is. He doesn't gush with compliments; he isn't always available; he doesn't give too much; and he knows he isn't going to die if a woman says "no" to him. More, his attitude is, yeah, I'd like to go out with you, but if I can't, that's OK -- I'm a busy guy, with exciting things going on, and lots of other options." Again, this sounds like the woman's fault. A sort of "you covet most what you cannot have" sort of deal; you want the rebel, but he doesnt exactly want you, so it makes you want him more.

dreamdude

In short, I cant help but feel that entire article is full of crap. Nice guys =/= wimps; like I said, there is a clear difference between the two. The fact is, a lot of younger females do in fact get off on being mistreated. I see it happen all the time with my friends and roommates that are less-than-kind to their girlfriends; in fact, they are often downright mean.

With that said, being a nice guy has not hampered myself at all. It is possible to be aggressive and driven while not being boring, but also remain a gentleman.

Women, at least from my observations at college, are semi-masochists. They want to be mistreated. I, however, refuse to stoop to that level. There are plenty of beautiful, mature-for-their-age women out there for us nice guys. And I guarentee you are relationships are happier.

[QUOTE="CoreyNT"][QUOTE="bluezy"]Fortunately for me, my gal loves that i'm the "nice guy."chrisrooR

[QUOTE="Premier1101"]I finish last, but the girls think thats a good thing ;)II_Seraphim_II

OH MY GOD!!! Talk about nailing down a response! You sir deserve 10 cookies :D

thanks for the cookies im hungry :P

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

Yeah but I know that their are lots of guys who fall in the nice catogory but can still be exciting and funny. That article is not specific enough and confines every guy into to catogories and every girl into one. you can be funny spontanious exciting and still be shy or put someone you care abouts needs ahead of yours.

sometimes it depends on who your confprtable with. I can see how being a spineless dull pushover is boring but how is putting her in front of yourself boring? I thought love was about being selfless

So what the article is saying is to feign not caring about who you want to ****? So i see dating is nothing more than ritualistic displays of strength, opinions, submission, possesion, talent and genetics. Nothing more nothing less. I need a drink.

Sajedene

Uh yeah.

You put out too much too soon even before the first date then whats the point?

true I guess I was talking about knowing someone for along time but getting trapped in the "friend zone" cliche as it were. What I really hate is when someone thinks their a nice guy but are really being jerks with a victim complex turning everything into a black and white issue and then in turn villianize the woman they tried to hook up with.

I finish last, but the girls think thats a good thing ;)Premier1101

LOL I applaud you for that comment, sir!

Regardless, I have seen things like this happen time and time again. Believe it or not, I am one of those nice guys, but sometimes it's hard not to be when there is someone you just like beyond imagination, ya know?

Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Video_Game_King

You don't have to be a jerk.. it's just that a lot of jerks possess a similar attutude. You can have that quality about yourself without being a jerk in nature.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Video_Game_King

OMG. How many times do we have to say (even the article) that it doesnt mean you become a jerk.

Jerks are often confident. When was the last time you saw somebody be an utter a-hole, yet do it nervously? The ideas contrast.

And guess what there are tons of confident guys out there who arent jerks either. And tons of shy guys who - surprise surprise - are jerks too.

The article is saying - dont put out too much too soon. Be nice but dont give the world to a girl before the first date. Be confident enough in yourself that you have the power to dictate who you will go out with - instead of putting the girl on a pedestal that she has all of the cards.

Women may want different types of guys but the common things you will see in what they look for are confidence and humor.

Just because we're asking you not to give us your all too fast too soon doesnt mean you should turn into a jerk because that will not even get you through the friendship door.

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.The_Mac_Daddy

You don't have to be a jerk.. it's just that a lot of jerks possess a similar attutude. You can have that quality about yourself without being a jerk in nature.

What is this quality? Confidence? You're gonna need more than confidence. Women often say, "Oh, sorry, but I'm looking for more in a man." And to quote a cartoon:

Nice gets their attention, but mean puts the hook in 'em.Mandy

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Sajedene

OMG. How many times do we have to say (even the article) that it doesnt mean you become a jerk.

sorry but real-life examples disagree. If you are a jerk, the hot ladies will come flocking. When are women going to grow up?

I finish last, but the girls think thats a good thing ;)Premier1101

[QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.mrbojangles25

OMG. How many times do we have to say (even the article) that it doesnt mean you become a jerk.

sorry but real-life examples disagree. If you are a jerk, the hot ladies will come flocking. When are women going to grow up?

Oh please - so many guys I know cry "but I'm a nice guy!" But they all can and have been jerks! Heck, being in this forum is proof of that. A girl breaks their heart and goes to the other guy - he automatically becomes a jerk in their eyes. A girl complains about a guy in their relationship - the guy they say it too assumes oh they're definitely a jerk.

You can be a saint of a man and do all those things but ask your gf's friends and I can guarantee you she has and always will have something to complain about.

When will boys become men?

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Video_Game_King

You don't have to be a jerk.. it's just that a lot of jerks possess a similar attutude. You can have that quality about yourself without being a jerk in nature.

What is this quality? Confidence? You're gonna need more than confidence. Women often say, "Oh, sorry, but I'm looking for more in a man." And to quote a cartoon:

Nice gets their attention, but mean puts the hook in 'em.Mandy

I think you mis-interpret what they mean by confidence. You can be confident but boring at the same time. You just got to know how to be with women.. i can't really explain it through text.

Basically.. grow some balls and BE A MAN!!

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Sajedene

OMG. How many times do we have to say (even the article) that it doesnt mean you become a jerk.

Jerks are often confident. When was the last time you saw somebody be an utter a-hole, yet do it nervously? The ideas contrast.

And guess what there are tons of confident guys out there who arent jerks either. And tons of shy guys who - surprise surprise - are jerks too.

The article is saying - dont put out too much too soon. Be nice but dont give the world to a girl before the first date. Be confident enough in yourself that you have the power to dictate who you will go out with - instead of putting the girl on a pedestal that she has all of the cards.

Women may want different types of guys but the common things you will see in what they look for are confidence and humor.

Just because we're asking you not to give us your all too fast too soon doesnt mean you should turn into a jerk because that will not even get you through the friendship door.

Let me work through this in whatever stupid order I wish:

You can only go through one door. Never both.
Usually a jerk is active or social. Jerks talk to people, yet people won't necesarrily talk to the jerk. The latter doesn't necessarily mean that they're shy.
So, you're saying that don't fall in love when trying to ask a girl out? That's how I interpret it, as you're almost powerless to love. The only way I found to kill it was with the harsh reality of the situation and the examples of it failing through history (Romeo & Juliet, Fire Emblem 4, Final Fantasy VII, etc.).
As I said in the other post, confidence isn't enough. Women want more. And confidence can easily turn into arrogance. That's an area I'm not sure whether or not women want.
I've tried being humorous. Hell, look at my blog. Tried it in the physical world, and it usually comes off as arrogant or idiotic.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Sajedene

OMG. How many times do we have to say (even the article) that it doesnt mean you become a jerk.

sorry but real-life examples disagree. If you are a jerk, the hot ladies will come flocking. When are women going to grow up?

Oh please - so many guys I know cry "but I'm a nice guy!" But they all can and have been jerks! Heck, being in this forum is proof of that. A girl breaks their heart and goes to the other guy - he automatically becomes a jerk in their eyes. A girl complains about a guy in their relationship - the guy they say it too assumes oh they're definitely a jerk.

You can be a saint of a man and do all those things but ask your gf's friends and I can guarantee you she has and always will have something to complain about.

When will boys become men?

you seem bitter, you been on the end of "jerk" treatment before?

This thread made me depressed.chrisrooR

you're not the only one my friend....:cry:

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.The_Mac_Daddy

You don't have to be a jerk.. it's just that a lot of jerks possess a similar attutude. You can have that quality about yourself without being a jerk in nature.

What is this quality? Confidence? You're gonna need more than confidence. Women often say, "Oh, sorry, but I'm looking for more in a man." And to quote a cartoon:

Nice gets their attention, but mean puts the hook in 'em.Mandy

I think you mis-interpret what they mean by confidence. You can be confident but boring at the same time. You just got to know how to be with women.. i can't really explain it through text.

Basically.. grow some balls and BE A MAN!!

I've tried growing some balls, but that backfired horribly. (I am assuming that by "grow some balls" you mean "become assertive and confident".)

you been on the end of "jerk" treatment before? clyde46

Not really ... I'm more upset at the fact that so many guys cant accept the reality of this article because they think that their failed relationships or lack thereoff are because of the women who refuse to pay attention to them.

I love the part when one of them HAD to put "hot women" - its like, have they not thought of becoming more confident in themselves? Not using movies and videogames as references to real life (that just SCREAMS loser right there). Or maybe their standards for women are too high? I mean lets be honest - your phyisical attributes do play a factor here. If one is going after a 9 when they are a 5 - then they have to play it right - and if they already come off as desperate at the very beginning then it really will never happen.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Video_Game_King

You don't have to be a jerk.. it's just that a lot of jerks possess a similar attutude. You can have that quality about yourself without being a jerk in nature.

What is this quality? Confidence? You're gonna need more than confidence. Women often say, "Oh, sorry, but I'm looking for more in a man." And to quote a cartoon:

Nice gets their attention, but mean puts the hook in 'em.Mandy

I think you mis-interpret what they mean by confidence. You can be confident but boring at the same time. You just got to know how to be with women.. i can't really explain it through text.

Basically.. grow some balls and BE A MAN!!

I've tried growing some balls, but that backfired horribly. (I am assuming that by "grow some balls" you mean "become assertive and confident".)

Ditto, last time I tried it I ened up with a slap.:|