Why Nice Guys Finish Last

Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.Video_Game_King

This is also true :(

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"][QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="gameguy6700"][QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

Finally, assuming that this author is, by some miracle of god, correct, let's think about this for a second: Do you really want to be in a relationship with a girl who's so immature that she prefers going out with a guy who's likely to turn into an abusive partner over a guy who's shown that he cares about her?

Sajedene

What makes you think that just because the guy doesnt give the world to the girl before the first date that he will be abusive to her? Why do you assume that just because a guy doesnt fawn attention to a girl prior to a first date that he is rude?

I'm referring to "jerk" as the article describes it: A guy who couldn't give a flying **** about the girl he's dating and who treats her like crap. So if a guy is like that at the start of a relationship what's he going to be like later on when he cares about her even less and feels less inhibited to use more severe mistreatment?

The article specifically said dont be a jerk. What the article is asking for is to not give the world to the girl too soon. Its not about not caring - its about not caring too much too soon.

Ah, I see. To be honest I stopped reading after it became apparant that the author was writing of her ass/trying to pass off a widely held belief as her own original idea.

Well what do girls expect from guys when they meet them?

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.big_boss4life

This is also true :(

Thinking like that is definetly a lack of confidence.

People in this thread keep saying "i've tried the confident thing before".. when I highly doubt it when you all are stuck in this wallow in your own pity bull****.

Cool thanks

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"][QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="gameguy6700"][QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

Finally, assuming that this author is, by some miracle of god, correct, let's think about this for a second: Do you really want to be in a relationship with a girl who's so immature that she prefers going out with a guy who's likely to turn into an abusive partner over a guy who's shown that he cares about her?

Sajedene

What makes you think that just because the guy doesnt give the world to the girl before the first date that he will be abusive to her? Why do you assume that just because a guy doesnt fawn attention to a girl prior to a first date that he is rude?

I'm referring to "jerk" as the article describes it: A guy who couldn't give a flying **** about the girl he's dating and who treats her like crap. So if a guy is like that at the start of a relationship what's he going to be like later on when he cares about her even less and feels less inhibited to use more severe mistreatment?

The article specifically said dont be a jerk. What the article is asking for is to not give the world to the girl too soon. Its not about not caring - its about not caring too much too soon.

Ah, I see. To be honest I stopped reading after it became apparant that the author was writing of her ass/trying to pass off a widely held belief as her own original idea.

I'm approaching this from a scientific standpoint. There's no proof presented, only anecdotal evidence. Furthermore, people are terrible judges of themselves which is why in psychological experiments we almost always have to employ some form of deception so people don't give biased answers. So excuse me if I decide to ignore your affirmation not only because of that but also because you're just one person and thus hardly representative of all girls. While I don't dismiss the possibility that girls really do prefer to go out with "jerks" I'm going to continue being very skeptic of the possibility until I see some sound research that says otherwise.

Edit: Actually, let me rephrase that last part: While I do believe that girls do tend to gravitate towards jerks, what I find hard to believe is that they're drawn to jerks just because they're jerks. As I said in my first post I believe that there are other, more plausible alternative explanations (assuming this is true in the first place). For example, if girls like jerks because they're more exciting then they actually prefer to be with exciting guys, not jerks.

How many times have I told you guys that already with all those "nice guys finish last threads" sheesh. Maybe this time it will sink into your guy's heads and we wont see those threads anymore. But thats just wishful thinking on my part.

Sajedene

This is where nerdy but nice males come to congregate, leave them alone damit. The fact that a female is here damages their pride enough, when will you women be satisfied!!!?>!:!111one

No.

People, people please. Its not about nice or weak or whatever. Its about exciting. Nice can be exciting. Its just... almost impossible to pull off. Sadly, what is 'interesting' is defined by your LOVE INTEREST not YOU, it has always been this way and always WILL be this way.

Accept it! Boring men finish last. In this world, your strength means little unless its your main selling point in which case I pitty you.

Basically, to all the "nice guys" in this thread. Throw away everyhthing your momma told you about women. Forget what you know now, because it obviously isn't working. The_Mac_Daddy

What your momma told you about woman? What? Anyway, you just need to throw in some extra qualities to spice things up and then you are all set. Nice guys are half way there.

[QUOTE="big_boss4life"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Yea, but if you become a jerk/confident, the girl's gonna say she doesn't want to be with you. The universe always finds a way to screw you over.The_Mac_Daddy

This is also true :(

Thinking like that is definetly a lack of confidence.

People in this thread keep saying "i've tried the confident thing before".. when I highly doubt it when you all are stuck in this wallow in your own pity bull****.

Due in part to trying the confidence thing before. It made things worse. A lot worse. And I'm aware that I lack confidence, its just that I don't know any effective way to build that crap up. I've heard methods, but they seem to be full of crap and will assuredly backfire.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"]

How many times have I told you guys that already with all those "nice guys finish last threads" sheesh. Maybe this time it will sink into your guy's heads and we wont see those threads anymore. But thats just wishful thinking on my part.

RKfromDownunder

This is where nerdy but nice males come to congregate, leave them alone damit. The fact that a female is here damages their pride enough, when will you women be satisfied!!!?>!:!111one

No.

People, people please. Its not about nice or weak or whatever. Its about exciting. Nice can be exciting. Its just... almost impossible to pull off. Sadly, what is 'interesting' is defined by your LOVE INTEREST not YOU, it has always been this way and always WILL be this way.

Accept it! Boring men finish last. In this world, your strength means little unless its your main selling point in which case I pitty you.

So true. The self pity needs to stop. She's allowed to have her taste don't villianize her and the entire female gender just because your didn't hit it off. But it is true nice guys can be exciting and I guess thats what I was trying to say the whole time. But I felt that article was kinda dumb and pidgeonholing.

I'm a nice quiet guy but I've never really had a problem. course I'm told i'm funny and unique. But many of you all made valid points their are disturbing trends involving women and their choice of men but we all have our taste. Its wrong to assume that some people don't like the quiet shy type. no one owes you anything so don't get bitter. Although I don't think that that women who was posting speeks for all women though. Some like outgoing people some would like quiet more shy people But thats not to say that their isn't a majority prefrence.

And video games are vallid points. I've quoted zombie movies before for social commentary.

Thats nice but I don't buy this explaination based on personal experience.

I am a nice guy but am also someone who can be loud, act semi-crazy (in a good way) and confident in every aspect EXCEPT my ability to attract a women. This explaination suggests that I should be swimming in girls and yet I am not.

I think the problem is this does not take into account the shallowness of some women and the overall immaturiy of women around my age (I am 19). It is a nice try but I don't buy it.

Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.peppersfan2

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

Thats nice but I don't buy this explaination based on personal experience.

I am a nice guy but am also someone who can be loud, act semi-crazy (in a good way) and confident in every aspect EXCEPT my ability to attract a women. This explaination suggests that I should be swimming in girls and yet I am not.

I think the problem is this does not take into account the shallowness of some women and the overall immaturiy of women around my age (I am 19). It is a nice try but I don't buy it.

Thechaninator

The fact that you lack the confidence in your ability to attract women could be the deter. Acting "semi-crazy in a good way" could also be interpreted as you acting immature and like a fool. Its good for laughs at the moment but is not the humor most girls search for.

Again, quit blaming the women. I mean, dont you find it quite odd that ALL of the women your age are immature and arent attracted to you? Because, no way it could be your fault right? Oh wait, now you're going to tell me that only the women you like are not attracted to you - but the ones you dont like are.

Best solution to being single - date the person willing to date you even if you arent willing to date them. But then thats just desperation and I really dont reccomend it.

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.Sajedene

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

Thats nice but I don't buy this explaination based on personal experience.

I am a nice guy but am also someone who can be loud, act semi-crazy (in a good way) and confident in every aspect EXCEPT my ability to attract a women. This explaination suggests that I should be swimming in girls and yet I am not.

I think the problem is this does not take into account the shallowness of some women and the overall immaturiy of women around my age (I am 19). It is a nice try but I don't buy it.

Thechaninator

The fact that you lack the confidence in your ability to attract women could be the deter. Acting "semi-crazy in a good way" could also be interpreted as you acting immature and like a fool. Its good for laughs at the moment but is not the humor most girls search for.

Again, quit blaming the women. I mean, dont you find it quite odd that ALL of the women your age are immature and arent attracted to you? Because, no way it could be your fault right? Oh wait, now you're going to tell me that only the women you like are not attracted to you - but the ones you dont like are.

Best solution to being single - date the person willing to date you even if you arent willing to date them. But then thats just desperation and I really dont reccomend it.

My lack of confidence in attracting women is very much linked to the lack of interest I have gotten over the years.

Well if my craziness is considered immature what do you call all the women I hear talking constantly about going to clubs and that BS?

Well it also has something to do with me being a little mature for my age. I don't care about clubbing and that BS I care about doing good at school while trying to make some good money. And yes there is alot of immaturity seeing as a girl at work has made fun of me and the guys because we talk about video games at times (and no I don't talk video games with women unless I know they like them) and yet I sit there hearing her talk about how she can't wait to go clubbing and talking about her outfit and I never felt the need to tell her how incredibly stupid she sounded going on about that pointless stuff...

Actually I am having problem finding a girl I actually think is worth asking out right now. I tried making moves on 2 girls earlier and both times nothing happened, albeit one of them had to do with the girl I like turning out to be a completely selfish ***** (Long story on this one) and the other I just don't even understand.

My lack of confidence in attracting women is very much linked to the lack of interest I have gotten over the years.

Well if my craziness is considered immature what do you call all the women I hear talking constantly about going to clubs and that BS?

Well it also has something to do with me being a little mature for my age. I don't care about clubbing and that BS I care about doing good at school while trying to make some good money. And yes there is alot of immaturity seeing as a girl at work has made fun of me and the guys because we talk about video games at times (and no I don't talk video games with women unless I know they like them) and yet I sit there hearing her talk about how she can't wait to go clubbing and talking about her outfit and I never felt the need to tell her how incredibly stupid she sounded going on about that pointless stuff...

Actually I am having problem finding a girl I actually think is worth asking out right now. I tried making moves on 2 girls earlier and both times nothing happened, albeit one of them had to do with the girl I like turning out to be a completely selfish ***** (Long story on this one) and the other I just don't even understand.

Thechaninator

It is more immature to point fingers and call somone who does not share the same interests as you immature and claim it is because you are mature for your age. Get off of your high horse and then maybe things will fair better.

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.Sajedene

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

That kinda supports my point of confidence becoming arrogance. You can value your abilities more than anything else, or to the point where you think they're the best/you're better than anyone else. How does one find that f'ing balance?

[QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.Video_Game_King

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

That kinda supports my point of confidence becoming arrogance. You can value your abilities more than anything else, or to the point where you think they're the best/you're better than anyone else. How does one find that f'ing balance?

Arrogance is when you assume you're amazing no matter what. Confidence is knowing your strengths and weaknessess and playing up your strengths with humble pride and downplaying your weakness with sincere modesty.

Like... (hard to explain through words but...)

"I cook from time to time. I've been told I make a mean spaghetti."

Instead of...

"I'm an amazing cook. My spaghetti is the best there is and nothing else compares."

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.Sajedene

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

That kinda supports my point of confidence becoming arrogance. You can value your abilities more than anything else, or to the point where you think they're the best/you're better than anyone else. How does one find that f'ing balance?

Arrogance is when you assume you're amazing no matter what. Confidence is knowing your strengths and weaknessess and playing up your strengths with humble pride and downplaying your weakness with sincere modesty.

Like... (hard to explain through words but...)

"I cook from time to time. I've been told I make a mean spaghetti."

Instead of...

"I'm an amazing cook. My spaghetti is the best there is and nothing else compares."

In order to have confidence, you need to have pride in what you do. That pride can easily be inflated and turn confidence into arrogance. Again, fairly hard to find the balance. And what do you mean by "humble pride"? That's almost an oxymoron. To add on to that, what the hell is "sincere modesty"? Modesty often involves some sort of pride, and I've already made that point before.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.Video_Game_King

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

That kinda supports my point of confidence becoming arrogance. You can value your abilities more than anything else, or to the point where you think they're the best/you're better than anyone else. How does one find that f'ing balance?

Arrogance is when you assume you're amazing no matter what. Confidence is knowing your strengths and weaknessess and playing up your strengths with humble pride and downplaying your weakness with sincere modesty.

Like... (hard to explain through words but...)

"I cook from time to time. I've been told I make a mean spaghetti."

Instead of...

"I'm an amazing cook. My spaghetti is the best there is and nothing else compares."

In order to have confidence, you need to have pride in what you do. That pride can easily be inflated and turn confidence into arrogance. Again, fairly hard to find the balance. And what do you mean by "humble pride"? That's almost an oxymoron. To add on to that, what the hell is "sincere modesty"? Modesty often involves some sort of pride, and I've already made that point before.

Dont think too much about it. It is how it is. Quit trying to justify your method which is obviously not working.

[QUOTE="Thechaninator"]

My lack of confidence in attracting women is very much linked to the lack of interest I have gotten over the years.

Well if my craziness is considered immature what do you call all the women I hear talking constantly about going to clubs and that BS?

Well it also has something to do with me being a little mature for my age. I don't care about clubbing and that BS I care about doing good at school while trying to make some good money. And yes there is alot of immaturity seeing as a girl at work has made fun of me and the guys because we talk about video games at times (and no I don't talk video games with women unless I know they like them) and yet I sit there hearing her talk about how she can't wait to go clubbing and talking about her outfit and I never felt the need to tell her how incredibly stupid she sounded going on about that pointless stuff...

Actually I am having problem finding a girl I actually think is worth asking out right now. I tried making moves on 2 girls earlier and both times nothing happened, albeit one of them had to do with the girl I like turning out to be a completely selfish ***** (Long story on this one) and the other I just don't even understand.

Sajedene

It is more immature to point fingers and call somone who does not share the same interests as you immature and claim it is because you are mature for your age. Get off of your high horse and then maybe things will fair better.

And yes talking about clubbing non-stop is both immature and bad character. If I talked about games 24/7 that would be immature as well.

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.Sajedene

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

That kinda supports my point of confidence becoming arrogance. You can value your abilities more than anything else, or to the point where you think they're the best/you're better than anyone else. How does one find that f'ing balance?

Arrogance is when you assume you're amazing no matter what. Confidence is knowing your strengths and weaknessess and playing up your strengths with humble pride and downplaying your weakness with sincere modesty.

Like... (hard to explain through words but...)

"I cook from time to time. I've been told I make a mean spaghetti."

Instead of...

"I'm an amazing cook. My spaghetti is the best there is and nothing else compares."

In order to have confidence, you need to have pride in what you do. That pride can easily be inflated and turn confidence into arrogance. Again, fairly hard to find the balance. And what do you mean by "humble pride"? That's almost an oxymoron. To add on to that, what the hell is "sincere modesty"? Modesty often involves some sort of pride, and I've already made that point before.

Dont think too much about it. It is how it is. Quit trying to justify your method which is obviously not working.

What method? Are you speaking about my life philosophy?

Articles like this are pointless. A person who is nice (all the power to them) will always be nice; they're not going to read this and change who they are.

Basically society is thelling them "be yourself....... unless you're nice then that's no good you need to change". Ya, not happening.

Actually what she did was incredibly immature in that I didn't give a damn about what stupid stuff she talked about but she apparently felt the need to try and say we are immature.

And yes talking about clubbing non-stop is both immature and bad character. If I talked about games 24/7 that would be immature as well.

Thechaninator

Oh and I suppose you hung out with her 24/7 to know thats all she talked about. Seems to me you both are immature. All she sees is you talking about games and all you see is her talking about clubbing. Neither of you gave each other a chance. But seems to me like you probably liked her for a bit in the beginning even though you deny it now - since all of this anger towards her "immaturity" when really - if you didnt care you wouldnt bother with her.

What method? Are you speaking about my life philosophy? Video_Game_King

Yes! You're always negative and always claim the world is out to get you but you're such a nice guy and you thinking that just because you "tried" to be confident (for what? Once in your life and it failed you) that everything is so dark, dire, and hopeless.

People would respond to you and give you suggestions but no... you bring up movies and videogames which totally prove how right you are. Its ok to throw a pitty party once in a while- but dang dude... dont live your life in the crapper forever.

Oh and Sajadene you might want to understand my philosophy on relationships to understand my issue with not finding girls worthwhile so far:

I don't NEED a girlfriend. A girlfriend is someone who simply eats up your money and time for some nookie.

What I DO need is a girl who actually gives a damn about me and is someone I find both physically attractive and intellectually attractive. I don't need some video game playing, double jointed supermodel (although that would be AWESOME) but someone who is cute and fun to talk and hang out with and who actually cares, thats it.

If thats too much to ask for then I will just live the rest of my life single because I refuse to date anyone out of desperation.

Oh and Sajadene you might want to understand my philosophy on relationships to understand my issue with not finding girls worthwhile so far:

I don't NEED a girlfriend. A girlfriend is someone who simply eats up your money and time for some nookie.

What I DO need is a girl who actually gives a damn about me and is someone I find both physically attractive and intellectually attractive. I don't need some video game playing, double jointed supermodel (although that would be AWESOME) but someone who is cute and fun to talk and hang out with and who actually cares, thats it.

If thats too much to ask for then I will just live the rest of my life single because I refuse to date anyone out of desperation.

Thechaninator

Thats great! And totally not too much to ask for and I'm sure shes out there. I just dont like it when guys point fingers and claim every other guy out there who gets the girl is a jerk and every other girl out there who shot them down is because they are immature and have bad taste in men. We all fall into that thinking out of anger - but really just get up, dust yourself off and continue living life and have a great time.

[QUOTE="USSJAndrew"]OMG, this definatly just helped me out alot in the situation I'm currently in.clyde46

strangely I'm in the same boat.

You're on a friggin boat?

Edit: This helped me understand why my brother is such a playa playa.

[QUOTE="Thechaninator"]Actually what she did was incredibly immature in that I didn't give a damn about what stupid stuff she talked about but she apparently felt the need to try and say we are immature.

And yes talking about clubbing non-stop is both immature and bad character. If I talked about games 24/7 that would be immature as well.

Sajedene

Oh and I suppose you hung out with her 24/7 to know thats all she talked about. Seems to me you both are immature. All she sees is you talking about games and all you see is her talking about clubbing. Neither of you gave each other a chance. But seems to me like you probably liked her for a bit in the beginning even though you deny it now - since all of this anger towards her "immaturity" when really - if you didnt care you wouldnt bother with her.

Well she is kinda cute but just has gotten on my nerves the more I hang out and talk with her. Trust me the clubbing thing is just one issue isn't enough for me to write off someone.

She happened to be the only physically attractive girl I see regularly now that schools out (she works with me) so thats the main reason why she came up. Trust me it is in general just an issue of when I talk to women its all about them and they never care to ever get around to ANYTHING about me.

The one who really dissapointed me was the selfish one I mentioned earlier who did this ALL THE TIME! Never ever talked about anything involving me and then she freaking moved out of state without saying goodbye to even her best friend (who isn't me BTW). Her self-centeredness was astounding and way more than I usually encounter with women....

Don't take this to mean I don't want to talk to women about their problems or whatever. In fact I enjoy letting them talk things out and trying to put in any useful input I can. It is just it is a 2 way street and if a women has no concern about anything involving me well they mean nothing to me and are quite honestly worthless in my eyes.

[QUOTE="Thechaninator"]Actually what she did was incredibly immature in that I didn't give a damn about what stupid stuff she talked about but she apparently felt the need to try and say we are immature.

And yes talking about clubbing non-stop is both immature and bad character. If I talked about games 24/7 that would be immature as well.

Sajedene

Oh and I suppose you hung out with her 24/7 to know thats all she talked about. Seems to me you both are immature. All she sees is you talking about games and all you see is her talking about clubbing. Neither of you gave each other a chance. But seems to me like you probably liked her for a bit in the beginning even though you deny it now - since all of this anger towards her "immaturity" when really - if you didnt care you wouldnt bother with her.

What method? Are you speaking about my life philosophy? Video_Game_King

Yes! You're always negative and always claim the world is out to get you but you're such a nice guy and you thinking that just because you "tried" to be confident (for what? Once in your life and it failed you) that everything is so dark, dire, and hopeless.

People would respond to you and give you suggestions but no... you bring up movies and videogames which totally prove how right you are. Its ok to throw a pitty party once in a while- but dang dude... dont live your life in the crapper forever.

You say that as if the two have nothing to offer in terms of life lessons. Where is it written that such mediums are incapable of delivering messages that one can take to heart? And on the rest...

From what I've experienced, the world is out to get me. Its happened many times before, and I'm sure it'll happen again within the future.
Theniceguyalwaysloses.
I have tried being confident and it failed miserably. As in "click the word always" screwed.
Usually, you try to get out of the crapper, people push you back in and make you know your place.

[QUOTE="Thechaninator"]

Oh and Sajadene you might want to understand my philosophy on relationships to understand my issue with not finding girls worthwhile so far:

I don't NEED a girlfriend. A girlfriend is someone who simply eats up your money and time for some nookie.

What I DO need is a girl who actually gives a damn about me and is someone I find both physically attractive and intellectually attractive. I don't need some video game playing, double jointed supermodel (although that would be AWESOME) but someone who is cute and fun to talk and hang out with and who actually cares, thats it.

If thats too much to ask for then I will just live the rest of my life single because I refuse to date anyone out of desperation.

Sajedene

Thats great! And totally not too much to ask for and I'm sure shes out there. I just dont like it when guys point fingers and claim every other guy out there who gets the girl is a jerk and every other girl out there who shot them down is because they are immature and have bad taste in men. We all fall into that thinking out of anger - but really just get up, dust yourself off and continue living life and have a great time.

Yeah I admit my immediate thought is that boyfriends are the jerks but I do what I can to push that aside untill I know something about the guy. It doesn't help though when soo many muscle bound guys walk around who give you the impression of being quite dim-witted and emotionless....

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Thechaninator"]Actually what she did was incredibly immature in that I didn't give a damn about what stupid stuff she talked about but she apparently felt the need to try and say we are immature.

And yes talking about clubbing non-stop is both immature and bad character. If I talked about games 24/7 that would be immature as well.

Thechaninator

Oh and I suppose you hung out with her 24/7 to know thats all she talked about. Seems to me you both are immature. All she sees is you talking about games and all you see is her talking about clubbing. Neither of you gave each other a chance. But seems to me like you probably liked her for a bit in the beginning even though you deny it now - since all of this anger towards her "immaturity" when really - if you didnt care you wouldnt bother with her.

Well she is kinda cute but just has gotten on my nerves the more I hang out and talk with her. Trust me the clubbing thing is just one issue isn't enough for me to write off someone.

She happened to be the only physically attractive girl I see regularly now that schools out (she works with me) so thats the main reason why she came up. Trust me it is in general just an issue of when I talk to women its all about them and they never care to ever get around to ANYTHING about me.

The one who really dissapointed me was the selfish one I mentioned earlier who did this ALL THE TIME! Never ever talked about anything involving me and then she freaking moved out of state without saying goodbye to even her best friend (who isn't me BTW). Her self-centeredness was astounding and way more than I usually encounter with women....

Don't take this to mean I don't want to talk to women about their problems or whatever. In fact I enjoy letting them talk things out and trying to put in any useful input I can. It is just it is a 2 way street and if a women has no concern about anything involving me well they mean nothing to me and are quite honestly worthless in my eyes.

yeah I've met self centered guys like that too and honestly I straight up tell them "look, I enjoy hearing stuff about you but let me talk too so YOU can get to know me. Otherwise, you're wasting your breath and my time so later." And walk away. If they have any compassion and like for you - they will apologize. Otherwise, you're free to move on to someone better.

ETA: Maybe she talks about clubbing a lot around you because she thinks it ups her cool factor and tries to show off around you. Try talking to her about it for a bit even though you hate it and then try and see if you can change the topic. Who knows - maybe you guys might find something in common.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.Video_Game_King

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

That kinda supports my point of confidence becoming arrogance. You can value your abilities more than anything else, or to the point where you think they're the best/you're better than anyone else. How does one find that f'ing balance?

Arrogance is when you assume you're amazing no matter what. Confidence is knowing your strengths and weaknessess and playing up your strengths with humble pride and downplaying your weakness with sincere modesty.

Like... (hard to explain through words but...)

"I cook from time to time. I've been told I make a mean spaghetti."

Instead of...

"I'm an amazing cook. My spaghetti is the best there is and nothing else compares."

In order to have confidence, you need to have pride in what you do. That pride can easily be inflated and turn confidence into arrogance. Again, fairly hard to find the balance. And what do you mean by "humble pride"? That's almost an oxymoron. To add on to that, what the hell is "sincere modesty"? Modesty often involves some sort of pride, and I've already made that point before.

Pride thats more a belief in yourself than something you would shout about perhaps?

If you wanna meet a Britney Spears, you sould listen to her... If you want a real relationship and taking into account that you are with your best friend... just flush that piece of trash down the toilet.

What is obvious is that she is talking about herself. Most of the peoples I look into must meen something to me, if not, I don't give a damn. It's a good advice for one nights, not for a relationship, which she doesn't seem to make any difference with...

You can call her a smart idiot...

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Thechaninator"]Actually what she did was incredibly immature in that I didn't give a damn about what stupid stuff she talked about but she apparently felt the need to try and say we are immature.

And yes talking about clubbing non-stop is both immature and bad character. If I talked about games 24/7 that would be immature as well.

Video_Game_King

Oh and I suppose you hung out with her 24/7 to know thats all she talked about. Seems to me you both are immature. All she sees is you talking about games and all you see is her talking about clubbing. Neither of you gave each other a chance. But seems to me like you probably liked her for a bit in the beginning even though you deny it now - since all of this anger towards her "immaturity" when really - if you didnt care you wouldnt bother with her.

What method? Are you speaking about my life philosophy? Video_Game_King

Yes! You're always negative and always claim the world is out to get you but you're such a nice guy and you thinking that just because you "tried" to be confident (for what? Once in your life and it failed you) that everything is so dark, dire, and hopeless.

People would respond to you and give you suggestions but no... you bring up movies and videogames which totally prove how right you are. Its ok to throw a pitty party once in a while- but dang dude... dont live your life in the crapper forever.

You say that as if the two have nothing to offer in terms of life lessons. Where is it written that such mediums are incapable of delivering messages that one can take to heart? And on the rest...

From what I've experienced, the world is out to get me. Its happened many times before, and I'm sure it'll happen again within the future.
Theniceguyalwaysloses.
I have tried being confident and it failed miserably. As in "click the word always" screwed.
Usually, you try to get out of the crapper, people push you back in and make you know your place.

Movies and videogames are based on experiences of people in real life but you have sheltered yourself enough that that is all you can bring up. You bring up ONE... ONE instance where you said you tried to be confident but it failed you miserably. And yet you fail to give any details as to how and why -and use that ONE experience to justify your feelings and beliefs for the rest of your life.

I dont even know why I try with you in every thread like this. You enjoy being pushed around. You enjoy being pushed down. You enjoy being in the crapper. You dont do anything to change it, you defend it, and you justify it. No matter how many times anyone will try to help you out -until you yourself would want to get out of that place - it will never happen and you will forever be walked on.

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Thechaninator"]Actually what she did was incredibly immature in that I didn't give a damn about what stupid stuff she talked about but she apparently felt the need to try and say we are immature.

And yes talking about clubbing non-stop is both immature and bad character. If I talked about games 24/7 that would be immature as well.

Sajedene

Oh and I suppose you hung out with her 24/7 to know thats all she talked about. Seems to me you both are immature. All she sees is you talking about games and all you see is her talking about clubbing. Neither of you gave each other a chance. But seems to me like you probably liked her for a bit in the beginning even though you deny it now - since all of this anger towards her "immaturity" when really - if you didnt care you wouldnt bother with her.

What method? Are you speaking about my life philosophy? Video_Game_King

Yes! You're always negative and always claim the world is out to get you but you're such a nice guy and you thinking that just because you "tried" to be confident (for what? Once in your life and it failed you) that everything is so dark, dire, and hopeless.

People would respond to you and give you suggestions but no... you bring up movies and videogames which totally prove how right you are. Its ok to throw a pitty party once in a while- but dang dude... dont live your life in the crapper forever.

You say that as if the two have nothing to offer in terms of life lessons. Where is it written that such mediums are incapable of delivering messages that one can take to heart? And on the rest...

From what I've experienced, the world is out to get me. Its happened many times before, and I'm sure it'll happen again within the future.
Theniceguyalwaysloses.
I have tried being confident and it failed miserably. As in "click the word always" screwed.
Usually, you try to get out of the crapper, people push you back in and make you know your place.

Movies and videogames are based on experiences of people in real life but you have sheltered yourself enough that that is all you can bring up. You bring up ONE... ONE instance where you said you tried to be confident but it failed you miserably. And yet you fail to give any details as to how and why -and use that ONE experience to justify your feelings and beliefs for the rest of your life.

I dont even know why I try with you in every thread like this. You enjoy being pushed around. You enjoy being pushed down. You enjoy being in the crapper. You dont do anything to change it, you defend it, and you justify it. No matter how many times anyone will try to help you out -until you yourself would want to get out of that place - it will never happen and you will forever be walked on.

So you're saying that one must experience things to accurately write about them? The Kama Sutra would like to speak to you, Miss.
Let me just say this: This and always are essentially the same thing. Somebody gains confidence, they confront their problems, and the sh*t hits the fan, making things 10x worse.
I would like to develop some shred of confidence, its just that I have found no effective method to do so. Tried outright gaining it bluntly, but....you know...^

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="Sajedene"]

[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]Although What is confidence? I would place personality above how loud or straightfoward someone is. Like alot of quiet people are really cool if you get to know them. I think alot of guys would benefit if some women asked first instead of leaving it all up to them.Video_Game_King

Confidence has absolutely nothing to do with how loud or straightforward a person is. It is how much one values their abilities as a person.

That kinda supports my point of confidence becoming arrogance. You can value your abilities more than anything else, or to the point where you think they're the best/you're better than anyone else. How does one find that f'ing balance?

Arrogance is when you assume you're amazing no matter what. Confidence is knowing your strengths and weaknessess and playing up your strengths with humble pride and downplaying your weakness with sincere modesty.

Like... (hard to explain through words but...)

"I cook from time to time. I've been told I make a mean spaghetti."

Instead of...

"I'm an amazing cook. My spaghetti is the best there is and nothing else compares."

In order to have confidence, you need to have pride in what you do. That pride can easily be inflated and turn confidence into arrogance. Again, fairly hard to find the balance. And what do you mean by "humble pride"? That's almost an oxymoron. To add on to that, what the hell is "sincere modesty"? Modesty often involves some sort of pride, and I've already made that point before.

Confidence gives you the will to succeed. Arrogance can make you fail horribly. Confidence makes you look impressive. Arrogance makes you look like a fool. There are exceptions of course but those are the basics.

They are both completely different. I don't see how you can mistake arrogance for confidence and vice versa.

Confidence gives you the will to succeed. Arrogance can make you fail horribly. Confidence makes you look impressive. Arrogance makes you look like a fool. There are exceptions of course but those are the basics.

They are both completely different. I don't see how you can mistake arrogance for confidence and vice versa.

BlackAlpha666

Both can make you fail horribly. Both can make you look impressive or foolish. And both require pride. They're fairly similar.

[QUOTE="BlackAlpha666"]

Confidence gives you the will to succeed. Arrogance can make you fail horribly. Confidence makes you look impressive. Arrogance makes you look like a fool. There are exceptions of course but those are the basics.

They are both completely different. I don't see how you can mistake arrogance for confidence and vice versa.

Video_Game_King

Both can make you fail horribly. Both can make you look impressive or foolish. And both require pride. They're fairly similar.

No. Read my previous post again. Exceptions aside, one makes you succeed, the other makes you fail. One makes people respect you, the other makes them hate you. They are completely different.

Well I'm not getting laid anytime soon anyways. After reading that, I think we should all treat women badly, then they won't see the difference between the nice guys and the cocky guys. A plan like that can't fail! Mwah ha ha! :twisted:

But being serious now, it's such a bummer. I've seen this happen and also experience this happen time and time again.