Why WOULDNT anyone vote for Ron Paul?

Jefferson even argued slaves had the right to armed rebellion.

And plenty of people were racist back then but thought the institution of slavery was awful. Lincoln, for example, was racist as hell. And that was 150 years later.

One of the first things Jefferson tried as a legislator was giving slave owners in Virginia the ability to free their slaves.

As president he signed legislation outlawing the Atlantic slave trade.

And plenty of northern presidents who didn't believe in slavery failed to abolish slavery.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Read what I posted above. Jefferson thought slavery was horrible, awful, etc. He blamed the Europeans, specifically the King of England, for bringing that system to America.

Jefferson even argued slaves had the right to armed rebellion.

And plenty of people were racist back then but thought the institution of slavery was awful. Lincoln, for example, was racist as hell. And that was 150 years later.

KC_Hokie

One of the first things Jefferson tried as a legislator was giving slave owners in Virginia the ability to free their slaves.

As president he signed legislation outlawing the Atlantic slave trade.

And plenty of northern presidents who didn't believe in slavery failed to abolish slavery.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Jefferson thought that certain aspects of slavery were horrible, but he did not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. He did nothing during his life in public office to actually free slaves. While he privately contemplated a gradual emancipation of slavery (followed by mass deportations), he never really said anything about it or did much about it (aside from restricting the importation of slaves in Virginia) publicly - something he certainly could've and should've done, especially considering his high-profile stature in American politics. Not only that but Jefferson was a pretty run of the mill monster of a slave owner. If Jefferson had any desire for slavery to be abolished he was too selfish to make any attempts whatsoever for it to ever happen in his lifetime. -Sun_Tzu-

One of the first things Jefferson tried as a legislator was giving slave owners in Virginia the ability to free their slaves.

As president he signed legislation outlawing the Atlantic slave trade.

And plenty of northern presidents who didn't believe in slavery failed to abolish slavery.

He signed legislation in 1807 outlawing the slave trade. He beat the British to that one.

Jefferson understood slavery was wrong but also did a lot as a politician to slowly get rid of it. Jefferson called his personal situation a "deplorable entanglement".

Jefferson called his personal situation a "deplorable entanglement".

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Jefferson called his personal situation a "deplorable entanglement".

-Sun_Tzu-

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give Congress the power to abolish or interfere within any state with the domestic institutions thereof, including that a person's held to labor or service by laws of said State." Lincoln, 1861

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that" Lincoln, 1862

He acknowledged his personal situation as being awful

KC_Hokie

If he thought his personal situation was awful he should've taken a look at the personal situation of the millions of enslaved black people.

And by the end of the war Lincoln proposed a limited expansion of suffrage to blacks. Something Jefferson never even considered. If Jefferson really wanted slavery to end he could've campaigned for abolition, like many of his Northern peers did. To say that Jefferson did more in his political life than Lincoln to end slavery is just laughable. Lincoln ended slavery in DC, and throughout his presidency he proposed and supported compensated emancipation (offers that the south continually denied).

I don't know how you could even begin to compare the two. I really have a hard time believing you have a degree in history.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]He acknowledged his personal situation as being awful

-Sun_Tzu-

If he thought his personal situation was awful he should've taken a look at the personal situation of the millions of enslaved black people.

And by the end of the war Lincoln proposed a limited expansion of suffrage to blacks. Something Jefferson never even considered. If Jefferson really wanted slavery to end he could've campaigned for abolition, like many of his Northern peers did. To say that Jefferson did more in his political life than Lincoln to end slavery is just laughable. Lincoln ended slavery in DC, and throughout his presidency he proposed and supported compensated emancipation (offers that the south continually denied), and by the end of the Civil War Lincoln publicaly supported expanding suffrage to blacks on a limited basis.

I don't know how you could even begin to compare the two. I really have a hard time believing you have a degree in history.

Lincoln only freed the slaves for political reasons....it kept any European power out of the civil war. And on top of that he failed to free the slaves in the border states which were controlled by the north.

Jefferson did more as a politician to end slavery than just about anyone else.

Jefferson did more as a politician to end slavery than just about anyone else.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Jefferson did more as a politician to end slavery than just about anyone else.

-Sun_Tzu-

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give Congress the power to abolish or interfere within any state with the domestic institutions thereof, including that a person's held to labor or service by laws of said State." Lincoln, 1861

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that" Lincoln, 1862

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Jefferson did more as a politician to end slavery than just about anyone else.

KC_Hokie

John Adams played a significant role in ending slavery in Massachusetts. Both Alexander Hamilton and John Jay spearheaded the end of slavery in New York. Jay even took matters into his own hands and used his own personal wealth to buy and free slaves. Ben Franklin towards the end of his life dedicated his remaining years to publicly campaigning about the need and importance of abolishing slavery. There were plenty of founding fathers who did a great deal to help end chattel slavery in the US; despite whatever his own private views on the matter were, he did almost nothing to actually abolish the institution, especially when you compare his life's work on the issue compared to many of the other founders.-Sun_Tzu-

All Jefferson ever did was help end the importation of slaves into the US. He did nothing to actually end the institution in America. He didn't even free any of his own slaves (except for like four). To condemn Lincoln in relation to slavery yet praise Jefferson is remarkably bizarre and a tell-tale sign of ignorance.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Jefferson did more as a politician to end slavery than just about anyone else.

KC_Hokie

You made an assertion about Jefferson, you should back it up.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Please learn history. -Sun_Tzu-

John Adams played a significant role in ending slavery in Massachusetts. Both Alexander Hamilton and John Jay spearheaded the end of slavery in New York. Jay even took matters into his own hands and used his own personal wealth to buy and free slaves. Ben Franklin towards the end of his life dedicated his remaining years to publicly campaigning about the need and importance of abolishing slavery. There were plenty of founding fathers who did a great deal to help end chattel slavery in the US; despite whatever his own private views on the matter were, he did almost nothing to actually abolish the institution, especially when you compare his life's work on the issue compared to many of the other founders.-Sun_Tzu-

All Jefferson ever did was help end the importation of slaves into the US. He did nothing to actually end the institution in America. He didn't even free any of his own slaves (except for like four). To condemn Lincoln in relation to slavery yet praise Jefferson is remarkably bizarre and a tell-tale sign of ignorance.

1778: drafted the Virginia law prohibiting the importation of enslaved Africans.

1784: By a single vote, Congress rejects Jefferson's proposal to exclude slavery from the western territories after 1800.

1806: President Thomas Jefferson imposes a trade embargo on Haiti.

1807: The British Parliament and the U.S. Congress vote to end the African slave trade. Signed into law by President Jefferson.

Very few did that much while in a position to do so against slavery.

Very few did that much while in a position to do so against slavery.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Very few did that much while in a position to do so against slavery.

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Very few did that much while in a position to do so against slavery.

KC_Hokie

There's a great quote by Malcolm X, "You can't drive a knife into a man's back nine inches, pull it out six inches, and call it progress."

The most Jefferson did in his life was pull the knife a few inches. Lincoln actually pulled the knife out. Yet here you are demonizing Lincoln - someone who never owned slaves, spent much of his career as a lawyer defending fugitive slaves and those who assisted fugitive slaves, joined the abolitionist Republican party and played a huge role in helping it achieve national prominence, attempted to end slavery in the US peacefully through compensation (and actually accomplished as much in DC), ultimately abolishing slavery at the end of the Civil War (something he didn't have to do, as you've pointed out), and in his last ever public speech spoke of expanding suffrage to blacks (a speech that in many ways ended his life) - and praising the slave owning Jefferson.

Lincoln literally gave his life to not only ending slavery but helping blacks integrate into American society. All Jefferson did was help end the importation of slaves and wrote in some letters that maybe slaves can be freed by the next generation, but in the meantime he was going to enjoy his chattel.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] I doubt Jefferson's own slaves felt the same way. -Sun_Tzu-

Jefferson was involved in more legislation against slavery in his lifetime. It took civil war and outside political pressure for Lincoln to do anything.

fyi: advil and vodka is an extremely bad combination if you value your liver, far far far worse than either on their own.surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="DarkOfKnight"]Believe what you will, but you have. You seem to keep dancing around what I say and keeping sticking to what you believe. I never made any assumptions or screamed at anyone, I am taking all that is giving to me and coming a logical conclusion based on that. You haven't proved anything I said wrong, you ignored everything I said and accused me of looking into the future and then said it isn't over. All you have done is stick your fingers in your ears and go nah uh, I am not listening to you. That's why I got annoyed with you, your posts ignored everything I said and continued with the same argument above without disproving the counter to it.DarkOfKnight

Maybe because both Conservatives and Liberals hate half of his ideas.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

w/e

Going by your logic, Ron Paul got one technical victory in which he didn't even win a plurarily of the popular vote. Time to uncork the champagne and celebrate. :roll:

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="DarkOfKnight"]..............Read my post again and address everything that made me come to the conclusion, there was way more in there then delegates. DarkOfKnight

Ron Paul has no chance to win the nomination. -Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

w/e

Going by your logic, Ron Paul got one technical victory in which he didn't even win a plurarily of the popular vote. Time to uncork the champagne and celebrate. :roll:

chessmaster1989

Cuz he or she may think returning to the gold standard is a stupid idea?

my first post ITT was intended to be my only post ITT, *sigh* @ fights i did not picksurrealnumber5

my first post ITT was intended to be my only post ITT, *sigh* @ fights i did not picksurrealnumber5

Relevant :P

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]my first post ITT was intended to be my only post ITT, *sigh* @ fights i did not pickchessmaster1989

Relevant :P

[QUOTE="RandPaul"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]for those ron paul people Ron Paul has won in a landslide in Minnesota, mitt Romney only won one delegate in the state with fewer than five delegates with unknown support. i think that is going to be my contribution to this thread. DarkOfKnight

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]my first post ITT was intended to be my only post ITT, *sigh* @ fights i did not pickDarkOfKnight

Relevant :P

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="DarkOfKnight"]More flamebait and assumptions thrown at me. You are grasping at straws by accusing me of calling people stupid and tools, which I did not. You haven't countered anything here, but like to bait me. You snap at me and tell me to get with the times? Denial much? You claim the internet (lol) has set people free, but yet nothing in our leadership has changed. It is the same old BS it always has been. I find it funny you think the majority of Americans would take the time to do such a thing, with voting patterns show no indication that they have. I live in reality, the internet has not set anybody free, has not caused a massive shift in voting patterns and has not led anybody victory. BTW, Ron Paul is an internet darling but a real life joke. Everybody has seen that Ron Paul's internet popularity hasn't translated into votes and most Americans will agree the internet hasn't caused such a massive change as you seem to believe. And please stop throwing accusations at me.DarkOfKnight

[QUOTE="DarkOfKnight"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Relevant :P

chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="DarkOfKnight"]That was directed at Rand Paul slick, not you. Stop playing innocent ok?DarkOfKnight