Will you vote for Obama in 2012?
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[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The concept of green jobs is pretty straight forward. It is work that promotes a clean enviroment and energy efficiency. I really don't see how you can call that pork.
-Sun_Tzu-
Jobs based on theory and questionable, ambiguous objectives, created by an industry sustained only by government subsides. Yeah, I guess I'm just not seeing the big picture.
How are energy efficiency and a clean environment questionable,ambiguous objectives? They too are incredibly straight forward. To be energy efficient is to be able to generate the same amount of energy service without using as much energy as you would otherwise use. To be environmentally-friendly is to avoid pollution. Moreover, none of this is based on guesswork done in some lab - we know what is energy efficient and what is not, we know what pollutes and what doesn't. Most importantly, these are desirable objective that should be reached. It is a good thing to be energy efficient and to live in a clean environment. Yes, I am 100% for more renewable energy resources. Fossil fuels will be gone by the end of the century, so we better not procrastinate!
I think Huckabee would be a good option. I think McCain would be an awesome option again if he wouldn't be about 100 by then. :P[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]It really depends on who the Republican candidate is (and how Obama does)... but as of now, looking at the possible candidates (Huckabee, Palin, Jindal, etc.) I'd say there's a very, very good chance I'll vote for Obama.Pirate700
Huckabee? Are you serious?
Here's a quote from our friend Huckabee:
I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."
Depends on how he does over the next THREE YEARS and who is running against him. tman93
This is the only acceptable answer as far as I'm concerned.
[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]No. Even if he changed his policies, at this point, he's already messed up with the stimulus bill, so there's no need to reward him for a vote either way.Tragic_Kingdom7
How do you know if he's messed up with the stimulus bill? What if it ends up working?
Then they will find a way to say it was Bush who saved the economy all along.[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]No. Even if he changed his policies, at this point, he's already messed up with the stimulus bill, so there's no need to reward him for a vote either way.tman93
How do you know if he's messed up with the stimulus bill? What if it ends up working?
Then they will find a way to say it was Bush who saved the economy all along.Yeah, we'll definitely be hearing some of that if it does work. Along with other types of damage control.
That's Obamas biggest flaw is he is WAY too far left. He is more left than most Dems. I don't expect him to be dead center just as I wouldn't expect a Rep to be. He's verging on a Michael Moore level of liberalism right now though.[QUOTE="topsemag55"]
Nope. He's doing it wrong, listening to far-left radicals. If he had been a moderate or centrist, then I might consider him as a viable candidate. Got to stick with conservative.
Pirate700
Oh brother. Obama is no more of a leftist than Hillary Clinton (they have basically the same policies). He's a typical center-left Democrat. If you want to be taken seriously about your assertion, lay out exactly what policies make him as far left as you're claiming he is.
I'm not shocked by some of his absurd ideas but more so about the abundance of them.[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]
I'm amused by those who are surpised by anything Obama proposes, supporters and critics alke. Clearly they weren't paying attention.
Pirate700
Why don't you lay out some of these absurd ideas? Throughout the entire thread, you seem to be pretty evasive everytime someone askes you to elaborate.
Undecided. I'll be old enough to vote by then. I would only vote for him if the economy turned around, but I wouldn't vote for him if things contiued to not be so good and there's a Republican opponent that I could agree with. I also don't like 2nd terms, since presidents always mess up in their second term.
It's still too early to tell, so we'll just have to see what happens in the next three years. I won't make my judgement until after 2010.
If you are going to make a claim stating that Obama is NOT centrist, you need to back it up. He's a Corporatist like most Right Wingers in this Country. He's backed by Healthcare and Wallstreet, right down the Center. If he was Left, those are the last entities that would be backing him. I should not have to post links as to how Obama is liberal. That's nuts. That's not a claim, that's a fact. Find one other person here that doesn't think Obama is a liberal and then I'll find you your links. :|[QUOTE="mismajor99"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]I need to post examples for you as to why Obama is a liberal? Really? Do a google search. Jeez.
Pirate700
1) You posted no facts. Ideologies are not concrete facts because they are labeled by interpretation and degree.
2) Nobody said Obama wasn't a liberal and mismajor sure didn't. What's in dispute is that he's a "far left liberal". mismajor is saying that Obama is center left and not true left. You act like mismajor called him a conservative or something.
[QUOTE="grenadexjumpr"]
[QUOTE="im_mr_brown"]
He hasn't even been in office for a year yet, how could I know. I voted for him, but if he screws up I won't vote for him again. Who blindly votes?
Tragic_Kingdom7
Um...pretty much the only reason he was elected was because of people blindly voting either because:
A. He was a black man
or
B. He wasn't Republican
There were 22 kids out of 25 in my government course in highschool, just as an example, that voted for Obama. When the 2 of us that Voted McCain asked the 22 why they did...
well...not a single one could explain nor really NAME a policy of Obama's that would ACTUALLY work outside of theory and not a single one of them could actually come up with a legitimate reason why he was better than any other candidate.
Absurd statement. Nobody in your highschool government course is going to know what they are talking about and your highschool government course is not representative of the Obama voting base at large. I voted for Obama and I could mop the floor with you in a debate about why Obama was a better candidate than McCain.
You really don't know why Obama voters voted for Obama if you think it is just for those 2 reasons. You're citing those reasons because that is what makes you feel better about the shortcomings of your own candidate.
Seems like your a pretty arrogant person. I could care less if you could "mop the floor" with me in a debate. Get over yourself. It was an example. And yes, MY generation/age group was a huge reason Obama won and a majority of my age group are ignorant and just vote for whoever has cooler ads and appears more hip. An absurd statement is thinking that nobody in my course knew what they were talking about. Many of us did extensive research and attended debates on both the Senatorial/House level and the state/local government level.
Those reasons I cited are cited because they are the truth. You just don't want them to be the truth so you can feel better about how you think you've saved all us poor little conservative minded fools, thinking Obama is the next best thing to Christ.
People like you are why most people shy away from political debate because rather than being grown up about it you'd rather insult and make yourself seem so high and mighty. Get a life man, really.
[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]
[QUOTE="grenadexjumpr"]
Um...pretty much the only reason he was elected was because of people blindly voting either because:
A. He was a black man
or
B. He wasn't Republican
There were 22 kids out of 25 in my government course in highschool, just as an example, that voted for Obama. When the 2 of us that Voted McCain asked the 22 why they did...
well...not a single one could explain nor really NAME a policy of Obama's that would ACTUALLY work outside of theory and not a single one of them could actually come up with a legitimate reason why he was better than any other candidate.
grenadexjumpr
Absurd statement. Nobody in your highschool government course is going to know what they are talking about and your highschool government course is not representative of the Obama voting base at large. I voted for Obama and I could mop the floor with you in a debate about why Obama was a better candidate than McCain.
You really don't know why Obama voters voted for Obama if you think it is just for those 2 reasons. You're citing those reasons because that is what makes you feel better about the shortcomings of your own candidate.
Seems like your a pretty arrogant person. I could care less if you could "mop the floor" with me in a debate. Get over yourself. It was an example. And yes, MY generation/age group was a huge reason Obama won and a majority of my age group are ignorant and just vote for whoever has cooler ads and appears more hip. An absurd statement is thinking that nobody in my course knew what they were talking about. Many of us did extensive research and attended debates on both the Senatorial/House level and the state/local government level.
Those reasons I cited are cited because they are the truth. You just don't want them to be the truth so you can feel better about how you think you've saved all us poor little conservative minded fools, thinking Obama is the next best thing to Christ.
People like you are why most people shy away from political debate because rather than being grown up about it you'd rather insult and make yourself seem so high and mighty. Get a life man, really.
I'm not usually arrogant, but I will say that after reading tripe like what you posted, I do feel a little "high and mighty". I don't think I can mop the floor with you because I'm such a good debator. I'm a decent debator, not great. I think I can mop the floor with you because your post shows such a small amount of intelligent thought.
Maybe I did generalize a bit when a said that none of the people in your class knew what they were talking about, but I'm pretty sure most of them didn't. Even high school students who think they know about politics really don't. And it's you who is "high and mighty" if you think that it was only the McCain voters in your class that made an informed choice. So look in the mirror before you label me some kind of elitist.
If you presume to know what the "truth" is as far as the reasons people voted for Obama, why don't you prove it? Why don't you cite some evidence that shows that your highschool class (it'a amazing that you give some highschoolers so much clout) is representative of the typical Obama voter. You're attempt to use anecdotal evidence to reach some kind of truth is pure fail. So don't talk about truth because you wouldn't know it if it hit you in the nose.
Also, you're the only one that said anything about "poor little conservative minded fools". Do I detect self-loathing? Just because I think your post is nonsense doesn't mean I have anything against conservatives.
Also, I didn't say anything about Obama being the next thing to Christ. Your talking points are not going to work here.
Again, I would be perfectly happy to debate you on why Obama was better than McCain. Maybe then you'll see that not everybody voted for him for the two reasons that you tried to tack onto people who don't agree with you.
I know I seem to be getting a bit aggressive with grenadex. But one has to have a lot of nerve to call someone high and mighty when their view is "All you Obama voters are sheep that voted based on race and party affiliation while we McCain voters made an informed choice". :roll:
I know I seem to be getting a bit aggressive with grenadex. But one has to have a lot of nerve to call someone high and mighty when their view is "All you Obama voters are sheep that voted based on race and party affiliation while we McCain voters made an informed choice". :roll:
Tragic_Kingdom7
I never stated my reasons for voting for McCain. I voted for him because I agreed with many of his viewpoints. I disliked Palin, but I totally disagreed with most of what Obama promised to bring to the table and CERTAINLY didn't want Biden in a position of power. I'm sure we ALL can agree on Palin and Biden.
I never said "all" Obama voters either. So stop making false claims on your part. I would love to agree to disagree with you, but you jumped right to insulting. Proving your lack of intelligence too.
You know nothing about my "views", and I know nothing of yours. So you back off of me and I back off of you. Its as simple as that. I stated MY opinions and what I personally have noticed. Your response was to attack me and insult me. I was simply point out that it was interesting of that poster to say "who blindly votes?" when 90% of Americans that vote do so blindly.
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]How are energy efficiency and a clean environment questionable,ambiguous objectives? They too are incredibly straight forward. To be energy efficient is to be able to generate the same amount of energy service without using as much energy as you would otherwise use. To be environmentally-friendly is to avoid pollution. Moreover, none of this is based on guesswork done in some lab - we know what is energy efficient and what is not, we know what pollutes and what doesn't. Most importantly, these are desirable objective that should be reached. It is a good thing to be energy efficient and to live in a clean environment. Yes, I am 100% for more renewable energy resources. Fossil fuels will be gone by the end of the century, so we better not procrastinate! How on earth could we possibly know that? We have no idea how much undiscovered sources of fossil fuels there are (by definition of course), and we have no idea how energy efficient the cars and industries of tomorrow will be. Further, these sorts of projections which say that fossil fuels will not be available in 100 years assume current consumption rates, which anyone with even a basic understanding of economics can tell you is absolutely false. As fossil fuels become more scarce, the price of said fuels will inevitably rise, which will lower consumption and spur demand for alternative fuels.[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]
Jobs based on theory and questionable, ambiguous objectives, created by an industry sustained only by government subsides. Yeah, I guess I'm just not seeing the big picture.
-RocBoys9489-
Then they will find a way to say it was Bush who saved the economy all along.[QUOTE="tman93"][QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]
How do you know if he's messed up with the stimulus bill? What if it ends up working?
Tragic_Kingdom7
Yeah, we'll definitely be hearing some of that if it does work. Along with other types of damage control.
I think we should try and not beg questions while we're having this discussion. If the Economy recovers from this recession, Obama will have had very little to do with it. Either A: the Austrians are right and the economy rebounds thanks to the economy "resetting" itself and resources being efficiently allocated as firms get liquidated, or B: It will be thanks to Bush, Paulson, and Bernanke for the massive monetary stimulus. The 787 Billion dollar stimulus package, though tremendous, will have almost no impact upon the economy even if Keynes was right. The fall in aggregate demand during this recession was in the trillions.Please Log In to post.
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