War in Ukraine. Did the West handle the post Cold War era badly?

They may have used more than the rest of the world have used since WWII, or more than countries would normally produce, but that doesn't account for how much can be produced if a country decides they need it. And building weapons is pretty much the only thing North Korea does.

Sad thing about this, it doesn't actually matter if he's talking complete bullshit, eat it up even knowing it's bullshit.

Tucker said live that he supports Russia's war in Ukraine. Its not surprising that he is trying to make them look better.

And I am sure some of his audience simply supports and prefers authoritarian leaders so they will accept to temporarily root against their own country's interests.

It seems even the fake-political-debate propagandists are losing their shit now. The pretence whimsical nonsense dropped.

Someone must have influenced Mr. Putin lol

Doesn't matter when the troops have lost their will to fight. Most likely we're witnessing the end of Putin's regime. Russia can't fight against the west. While west isn't directly fighting, they have given enough material, intelligence and training support to help Ukraine win. This operation was planned with the help of the US and Russia was completely caught off guard.

PS. The USA was also happy to buy Russian oil before this war. And they're just as happy to buy oil and bend over backwards to Saudi-Arabia.

I still don't think Ukraine will achieve victory, not in the short term, maybe if it's a long attrition war.

Most of all what's fundamental is to put Russia in its place and show them how weak they are so they don't dare to expand their aggression even further, and for Ukraine, if they want to have any negotiating power, they must show how willing they are to fight and how strong their bite is.

Russian propagandists have been claiming for Ukrainian surrender since day one and been trying to disrupt western support because a weak Ukraine will fall prey to Russian imperialism. Regardless to what MAGA traitors might want to sell us, it is fundamental that both Russia and China realise we won't just allow them to do whatever.

@kathaariancode: Maga is not saying they want Russia to take Ukraine. Maga sees this as a foreign conflict that is not Americans responsibility. Maga is for American first interests. Ukraine is not a US ally. Ukraine is not a NATO ally. Ukraine is very poor eastern European country that was a Soviet State untill 1991.

Isolationism never works. The world is global.

You do realize that what happens in one country affects others too. Welcome to economics 101. Also MAGA is a slogan, and so is America First (one that have had multiple meanings throughout history).

The War in Ukraine is a large part of why the global inflation is a thing, it is not the only reason but it is up there.

I get that Isolationists failed at Geopolitics (hence the disasterous dropping out of TPP proposed by both Trump and Bernie Sanders). But I would appreciate if populists didnt drown out the rest in their stupidity.

@Maroxad: TPP was a bad deal for America. We were getting ripped off "Globally".

Bernie and Trump were right to criticize the deal.

America First is a Ideology. We believe our American government officials should put the needs of Americans first.

@LJS9502_basic: Not wanting to get involved in a foreign war does not make me an "isolationist". I still support global trade and working with other countries. Ukraine has never been a US ally and this conflict is not our responsibility.

Keeping Russia at bay, and Russia has been a flat out enemy, is important.

TPP was a good deal for America, and America has a large trade deficit because it is a wealthy country. The same applies to other wealthy nations too. Again, pick up an economics textbook. And the trade deficit skyrocketed under Trump too. Caused by Trump's complete mismanagement of foreign trade.

Ukraine has had a large impact on the economy too. You may call Russia a small poor country and no ally. But the fact of the matter is, this war in Ukraine is causing both fuel and food prices to skyrocket.

America First is not an ideology, and America First has meant different things depending on who spoke it. Whether it is for racial supremacy, staying out of WW2, protectionism or anti-expansionist agenda. "America First" has been used for over a century, and has meant different thigns every time, sometimes even contradictory ones.

Isolationists and protectionists are always the group that need to be rebuffed. 'America first' has been around forever and always the slogan of racists.

@sargentd: Which examination of the TPP shows it being a bad deal for the US?

I think it's far more likely that this will be a failure for Putin, resulting in a leadership shakeup (which we're already seeing cracks in) and a slow dissolution of the Russian Federation that we see today. One key piece was cutting off Russian gas to Europe as that was their big negotiating piece. Once that is severed for good they are of no further relevance.

@HoolaHoopMan: Ah yes, for sure there's the possibility of weakening Putin's position. That's why it's important to keep supporting Ukraine and keep economic pressure against Russia. Which will be difficult since proto-fascists like MAGA, and other movements around the globe, are much more aligned with Putin and his ideology than with traditional western values.

As optimistic as I am, I honestly think the time for liberal democracies is close to being over and we'll be back to authoritarianism and populism sooner than later.

@kathaariancode: Things ebb and flow. Perhaps I'm a bit more of an optimist. Let's hope you're not right!

Pro fascists like MAGA? Do you even listen to yourself before you hit "post reply" at the bottom? Trump has been telling Europe for years that Russia wasn't to be trusted and to seek out energy independence from them. Had Europe actually listened to what you have deemed a fascist, they wouldn't have the money they're using to bankroll the destruction of Ukraine now. You have no idea what fascism is, but you've heard it on TV or read it in some online op-ed, so you use it here, but in doing so you only prove you know nothing.

Those "liberal democracies" and the weak leadership that came with them are why Russia is able to cause so much damage now. And they still control a huge amount of European energy resources that Europe is going to be desperately needing once winter moves in. When the cost doubles and triples this winter, the only person you have to thank for it is that "liberal democracy" leadership that put Europe in that position either out of sheer ineptitude, malice, or corruption.

I repeat myself

"Money is nothing more than an abstract concept we created to make trade easier. Money doesnt magic things into existance."

While arms manufacturers can ramp up production. Nobody is willing to set up new businesses or make a large bet on the prolonged duration of this war. Production isnt as simple as flipping a switch, underlying infrastructure needs to be built. Goods need to be shipped, workforce trained and so on.

How is it you do not know these stuff?

@eoten: That has absolutely nothing to do to your cult having fascist tendencies or not, and more to do with how capitalism works. Crazy you calling me out like that and then falling to be able to form a logic line of thought.

Stop behaving like Pavlov's dog each time you feel targeted.

Yep. They're even admitting to it. Same conference where they invited Viktor Orban to speak, who is also a fascist.

Russia will do fine as Chinas lap dog though.

Ukraine definitely has a habit of over-selling victories. Something like Snake Island for example is relatively meaningless.

In this case though I would argue it was significant. And actually shows the first hand idealogical difference between them. Ukraine is fighting for survival, Russians are fighting for a pay-cheque, on that basis, Ukraine winning was a forgone conclusion regardless of all the horrific shit Russia has thrown at them. Even if they occupied all of Ukraine, they will never have Ukraine. It's folly.

Reality seeping in for 2 seconds then quickly dissipating.

@HoolaHoopMan said:

@eoten said:

Pro fascists like MAGA?

Yep. They're even admitting to it. Same conference where they invited Viktor Orban to speak, who is also a fascist.

What makes Viktor Obran a fascist? You do understand that going around calling people you don't like racists, fascists, nazis, or whatever dumb shit you people dream up on that particular day, only makes you look that much more inept when it comes to anything even remotely intellectual in nature, right?

You say that, but just the other day you didn't even know China had already officially declared economic and defensive support for Russia.

@horgen: It will be very interesting to follow the dynamic between them in the coming decades.

Europe depends a lot on gas from Russia. Do you think China will do the same mistake? Do you think Europe wants to continue to rely on Russia? If Europe reduces or eliminates gas and oil purchases from Russia, then Russia has lost one of it not its biggest customer of these products. Doubt Africa will make up the difference, but China can.

China and Russia don't even have the infrastructure in place to buy/sell gas between their countries (at least not even close to current day Russia/China).

You seem to think you have a choice. You do not have the capability of replacing Russian gas, just like you have no choice with China. Do you think you're going to start making computer parts and electronics yourself, domestically, and if so, that any of that stuff would still be affordable? Lmfao, Russia and China both have Europe by the balls, and it was your own "leadership" that put your collective balls into their hands. You may want to start reconsidering their loyalties.

His words and political stances. Get with it. Hungary's neighbors know it.

https://www.politico.eu/article/viktor-orban-rule-of-law-european-parliament-brands-hungary-as-no-longer-a-democracy/

Or maybe we should just look at the speech he gave at CPAC. Loves to bring up Jews....err I mean globalists and somehow doesn't like mixed race people.

"One of the very first guests to speak during the three-day conference, Orbán’s speech at CPAC comes amid swift international blowback for the prime minister over his July 23 comments that Hungary must not become a “mixed-race” country, pointing to other nations in Europe with large immigrant populations. One of Orbán’s top aides resigned over his comments, saying his speech sounded as if it were given by a “Nazi.”"

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/04/viktor-orban-cpac-00049935

Amewica first. Not my problem.

Tucker Orange man says I should love Russia.

Ukraine is taking back a lot of territory recently.

@uninspiredcup: These are certainly more war crimes. If they intended to bring Ukraine into the fold by means of absorption or vassalization, it's almost certainly impossibly now since they will have turned an entire generation of Ukrainians against Russia.

@HoolaHoopMan: Oh, for sure. This will be nothing but a pin-hole view of the shit they've done.

Those fucks on Russian State TV hold responsibility as well. They've drummed it into Russians head that Ukrainians are sub-human and should actively have horrific shit inflicted upon them.

Basically free pass to go on rape, torture sprees etc... Ted Bundy type shit on a mass scale. With the blessing of their leaders.

Russia hasn't got much to worry about either doing this stuff. UN will tut-tut bla bla we condemn.

They've now reached a point that they are inwardly mocking themselves for the bullshit they spout.

Again, and not surprising, you have failed. You posted a thread about other European globalist leadership not liking Orban, which is irrelevant. I asked you to show me how he's a fascist, maybe list some policies consistent with fascism, which is a political and economic ideology credited to Benito Mussolini as the inventor. As per usual you prove that this is just another one of the dumb things you people accuse others of when you don't agree with them. Your "omg I don't like this person they must be a Nazi" shit typical of the left is getting pretty old.

The guy has turned his country into an autocracy during his time in office and his top aides are literally resigning because it reminds them of Nazis. Or do you honestly believe Orban's elections are 'free and fair' despite all election observers saying otherwise?

You keep asking for examples yet the links I provided are linked to their justifications. I suppose I shouldn't expect the bare minimum of people to actually read through evidence provided before spewing more nonsense and hitting the reply button.

"In their report, Parliament members listed a range of concerns — from the functioning of the country’s electoral system to its judicial independence. They also express fears about academic and religious freedom, as well as the rights of vulnerable populations." (hmmm...kind of reminds me of another political party...)

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/A-9-2022-0217_EN.html

Amazing. Making excuses for fascism now. The right has lost it's way.

Give it up. You've failed. You're tossing around "fascism" as an insult, it's what you people usually default to. FFS you people spent 4 years calling Trump Hitler. You've cried wolf one too many times and you just cried it again. Calling someone a nazi or a fascist is not a valid alternative to the discussion at hand.

Thanks for confirming you're either illiterate or a troll. Just one more notch on the belt of the man who brought us 'vaccines are deadly placebos'.

@HoolaHoopMan: Eoten is hilarious, I have a notepad documenting his worst takes, it is now up to 18 sig-worthy remarks from him. And I am sure I missed a bunch.

Also, even Russian propagandists are seemingly turning against the war now.

https://news.yahoo.com/kremlin-tv-airs-call-russia-164208089.html

@HoolaHoopMan literally gave you factual links in each reply answering your questions and you just completely ignored them and spammed bullshit lies. Absurd.

How Hungary’s Viktor Orbán destroyed democracy, and what it means for America - Vox

Behind the U.S. Right’s Fascination With Viktor Orbán - The Atlantic

You're literally only defending this fascist freak because your party likes him and no other reason. The same reason you like book bans, the same reason you think climate change is fake, and the same reason you think the vaccines are fake. Extreme tribalism.

Why am I not surprised the conservative posters are in this thread defending fascist dictators and cheering on Russia while ignoring reality and facts. There is truly no bottom for them.

I'd feel sad and embarrassed for them if their willful ignorance and authoritarianism wasn't directly threatening to the western world.

Can be fixed quickly when neither country care about its people.

You wouldn't recognize fascism if it hits you in the face.

It's already hitting Europe in the face and you still don't recognize it. You think limiting illegal immigration is fascism. You think rules against things like indecency are fascism. You think being anti-woke is fascism. You have noidea what fascism is. It's an insult you people use when you're being melodramatic about someone or something which is why nobody outside of your bubble takes you people seriously when you toss it around as an insult.

Go read some history ffs. Read up on Benito Mussolini, often regarded as the architect of fascim. Go look up his ideologies on government and economics, because if you actually did, you wouldn't be so comically misinformed. Fascism is not a good thing by any stretch, but calling everything you like "fascism" just shows how poorly educated on world history you actually are.

Tell me, since you all seem so concerned about what is happening in Ukraine (because your television reports and articles tell you to be for sure), has anyone noticed the US state department is no longer publishing military expenditure reports? That Boris Johnson was caught encouraging Ukraine to continue fighting against Russia as opposed to coming to a peace agreement, and how the current PM of the UK is now threatening nukes?

It would seem western nations care more about an ongoing conflict than solving that conflict. I guess with the Iraq/Afghanistan wars gone, and ISIS gone, NATO powers need a new war to profit on, and that's party of why the conflict in Ukraine is being dragged out.

What I find hilarious is how this is largely being done to support corporate interests, and the group of people who piss and moan about corporations and the 1% the most turn a blind eye when those corporations and 1%ers profit off war because their 1% ran corporate media outlets tell them it's for some greater good.

Maybe you should look up fascism, because if you did, you will see how he mirrors a lot of the stuff they did, but adjusted for contemporary issues.

He even shut down Népszabadság, a newspaper critical of him.

I've studied world history. I know what it is. I know the definition has changed to satiate the far left's disinformation. You should actually take the time you spend on here being wrong about such things, and actually study some history. I even told you who created the ideology of fascism. Go do some research on him as a political figure, educate yourself.