Activision thinks about no longer supporting sony.

[QUOTE="rybe1025"]Well at least by system wars standards this is pretty high on the :lol: factor. The largest 3rd party developer saying they may stop supporting one of the consoles.TroyM1

[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] lolwut? how is uncharted or killzone or gow games not quality games because it's all subjective? That's why we need review scores because if it was decsided by randon then no game is a good game because not everyone likes it. One thing is that YOU don't like a certain game and the fact that that game is still a quality game weather it's your thing or not. Ms could have survived by halo alone last gen because they had a great quality game with hype and good marketing, it may not have happened but it's definitelly possibleedo-tensei

*facepalm*

1. Uncharted 2 or Killzone 2 are quality games in some people's opinion and they are not quality games in other people's opinion. There can be no objective truth when discussing the "quality" of games, because the quality of games is in the realm of subjectivity.I really don't see how you can not understand that. The difference between opinion and fact is elementary school stuff.

2. Reviews are merely one person's opinion. Nothing more.

3.I really like both Killzone and Uncharted 2, but even if I didn't, you can't say that something is quality in spite of my opinion and act like that is a fact. The only thing that you can say is that you disagree. Why? Because the statement that Uncharted is a great game is a subjective statement and thus I cannot be "wrong" for not liking it and you are not "right" for liking it. We merely have different opinions. Whether Uncharted is a quality game or not depends entirely on the opinion of the person playing it. It's good to some people and not good to others. Even if reviews determine that Uncharted is quality, that is merely a collection of opinions.You're trying to put a truth value on a statement of opinion, which is inherently fallicious.

4. First party titles are small in number so there needs to be third party titles to fill out a console's library.

Saying that a game has "great elements" is a...*gasp*...SUBJECTIVE STATEMENT, a statement of OPINION. I don't see how I can make that any clearer.

My thinking is not flawed in the least. My thinking takes into account that subjective judgements can never be objective truth.

A statement saying the Wii is selling more consoles than the 360 or the PS3=a factual statement. If I say that the PS3 is selling more than the Wii, I'd be wrong, because the Wii selling more consoles is a statement of objective fact that can be measured. You can count up the sales.

IF I say that Uncharted has horrible graphics, that's a subjective statement. I can't possibly be wrong, because you can't objectively measure the quality of graphics. Any measurement of graphics will boil down to an opinion and one's subjective interpretation of what they see on the screen. Any element of "quality" is the same way and thus the overall quality of a game follows the same rules as a judgement of quality is merely a combination of one's subjective opinion about the individual elements.

The fact that I even have to explain this is surreal. Are you a satire account? And tell me this, if you think that there is objective truth when it comes to quality of a game, who decides these objective truths?

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] that's bussiness dude nintendo was on top once as well and they failed as well when playstation came around, now they are back on top again. It's still possible for one of the big three to be successful only bey their 1st part gamesedo-tensei

You should have your head examined if you don't think the PS3 makes Activision any money. COD4 is, unless I am mistaken, the best selling PS3 game out there and you can bet the sequel will sell loads on PS3 as well. And IIRC, games like Rock Band 2 and Guitar Hero have sold roughly the same as the 360 version. Activision is just desperate for Sony to drop the price and thinks this "threat" will scare them.

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] that's bussiness dude nintendo was on top once as well and they failed as well when playstation came around, now they are back on top again. It's still possible for one of the big three to be successful only bey their 1st part gamesedo-tensei

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] don't even bother this guy is going loco this news really made him lose itSolidTy

SONY made ICO, SotC, and GoW dude.

Didnt they also make Gran Turismo?

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]Cuz, they are first and second party games duh Sony didnt make those games. Did Microsoft make HAlo?

Kahuna_1

SONY made ICO, SotC, and GoW dude.

Didnt they also make Gran Turismo?

Sure, they made more than those four (Gran Turismo, God of War, ICO, and Shadow of the Colossus), like Legend of Dragoon, but this guy never did any research, so I just threw a couple at him. :)

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]Cuz, they are first and second party games duh Sony didnt make those games. Did Microsoft make HAlo?

Kahuna_1

SONY made ICO, SotC, and GoW dude.

Didnt they also make Gran Turismo?

no Polyphony Digital did that game

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

*facepalm*

1. Uncharted 2 or Killzone 2 are quality games in some people's opinion and they are not quality games in other people's opinion. There can be no objective truth when discussing the "quality" of games, because the quality of games is in the realm of subjectivity.I really don't see how you can not understand that. The difference between opinion and fact is elementary school stuff.

2. Reviews are merely one person's opinion. Nothing more.

3.I really like both Killzone and Uncharted 2, but even if I didn't, you can't say that something is quality in spite of my opinion and act like that is a fact. The only thing that you can say is that you disagree. Why? Because the statement that Uncharted is a great game is a subjective statement and thus I cannot be "wrong" for not liking it and you are not "right" for liking it. We merely have different opinions. Whether Uncharted is a quality game or not depends entirely on the opinion of the person playing it. It's good to some people and not good to others. Even if reviews determine that Uncharted is quality, that is merely a collection of opinions.You're trying to put a truth value on a statement of opinion, which is inherently fallicious.

4. First party titles are small in number so there needs to be third party titles to fill out a console's library.

Tragic_Kingdom7

Saying that a game has "great elements" is a...*gasp*...SUBJECTIVE STATEMENT, a statement of OPINION. I don't see how I can make that any clearer.

My thinking is not flawed in the least. My thinking takes into account that subjective judgements can never be objective truth.

A statement saying the Wii is selling more consoles than the 360 or the PS3=a factual statement. If I say that the PS3 is selling more than the Wii, I'd be wrong, because the Wii selling more consoles is a statement of objective fact that can be measured. You can count up the sales.

IF I say that Uncharted has horrible graphics, that's a subjective statement. I can't possibly be wrong, because you can't objectively measure the quality of graphics. Any measurement of graphics will boil down to an opinion and one's subjective interpretation of what they see on the screen. Any element of "quality" is the same way and thus the overall quality of a game follows the same rules as a judgement of quality is merely a combination of one's subjective opinion about the individual elements.

The fact that I even have to explain this is surreal. Are you a satire account? And tell me this, if you think that there is objective truth when it comes to quality of a game, who decides these objective truths?

What if next gen Sony pulls out like the PS2 and tells Activision to go "F" themselves. :D

[QUOTE="Kahuna_1"]

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

SONY made ICO, SotC, and GoW dude.

TroyM1

Didnt they also make Gran Turismo?

no Polyphony Digital did that game

Okay, Polyphony is a 100% Sony Studio...but playing by your random game, what about ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and God of War? Hmmmm....

[QUOTE="Kahuna_1"]

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

SONY made ICO, SotC, and GoW dude.

SolidTy

Didnt they also make Gran Turismo?

Sure, they made more than those four (Gran Turismo, God of War, ICO, and Shadow of the Colossus), like Legend of Dragoon, but this guy never did any research, so I just threw a couple at him. :)

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="TroyM1"]I see you changed your statment to first party games not sony games "Good" .I agree I never said sony would bow out of the console market they'll still be around, but pissing off developers is not a good thing either.

Sony during the PS2 era would have handled the situation much differently.

PS2 Sony - " I find your lack of faith..... disturbing."

PS3 Sony - "C'mon Activision, you wouldn't do that to poor old Gily! I need this!"

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="Kahuna_1"]

Didnt they also make Gran Turismo?

TroyM1

Sure, they made more than those four (Gran Turismo, God of War, ICO, and Shadow of the Colossus), like Legend of Dragoon, but this guy never did any research, so I just threw a couple at him. :)

Really? I thought PD, Santa Monica, and Team ICO were their in-house developers. Everyone else they bought.

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="Kahuna_1"]

Didnt they also make Gran Turismo?

no Polyphony Digital did that game

Okay, Polyphony is a 100% Sony Studio...but playing by your random game, what about ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and God of War? Hmmmm....

After seeing the other thread about Activision possibly charging for online features in COD MW2, I'm convinced this won't happen..... Activision obviously cares about money too much to stop putting their titles on the PS3.

whatisazerg

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="Kahuna_1"]

Didnt they also make Gran Turismo?

TroyM1

Sure, they made more than those four (Gran Turismo, God of War, ICO, and Shadow of the Colossus), like Legend of Dragoon, but this guy never did any research, so I just threw a couple at him. :)

Who made ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, and God of War? Who made them?

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] 1st party is sony troym1 it's that simple, and sony isn't really pissing off activition, it's actually the other way around, they know sony can't lower the price so they put preassure this way, they are acting like biachhhsedo-tensei

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="TroyM1"]And I was just starting to like you. According to you Sony is a billion dollar company why cant they lower the price? On the other hand maybe they cant because they are strapped for cash. Or they are greedy biaches that want to milk us for every dime they can on a 800lb gorilla console thats hard as hell to develop for and sells 4 bluray movies and one game everytime a new one is bought. And Sony is Sony , Naughty Dogg is not sony just like Microsoft is not Bungie and bungie is not microsoft

TroyM1

activision sucks

you keep going back to your flawed point, because if you do say uncharted has bad graphics then you are in fact wrong, Why? Because if visual representations don't work for you then there are mathematicals reasons that will and mathematics is not a matter of subjective but objective;) don't overthink this becauseyou me and everyone elso look at games by gameplay features which are standards for this medium form, stop your nonsense.

edo-tensei

Don't overthink this is merely your way of saying "don't think". You would love for me to not think about this clearly, because it would bring my argument down to your level. Fortunately, I'm not going to do that.

1.) Mathematics=specs. It does not=quality as quality is a subjective judgement. It's really that simple. For somebody who is telling other people to stop overthinking things, you're surely trying to make this more complicated than it is.

2). And actually you don't get to say which standards everybody has to go by. The reason people have such different opinions is because people having differing standards. Whatyou may see as a fundamental to a game being quality, I may not put the same degree of importance on. And even if we go by the same standards, people's opinions will differ on whether a game meets those standards.

To say somebody's objectively wrong for saying Sony doesn't make good exclusives is asridicuolous as saying that somebody's objectively wrong for saying that vanilla ice cream is not a good food. I know that may be too much for you to cope with as you seem to have lived your life thinking that your opinions are facts, but you're just going have to deal with it because that's life.

activision is doo-doo, never liked them even when tony was around. They haven't come out with anything decent since...THPS1 nuff said. activision is worthless.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="TroyM1"]And I was just starting to like you. According to you Sony is a billion dollar company why cant they lower the price? On the other hand maybe they cant because they are strapped for cash. Or they are greedy biaches that want to milk us for every dime they can on a 800lb gorilla console thats hard as hell to develop for and sells 4 bluray movies and one game everytime a new one is bought. And Sony is Sony , Naughty Dogg is not sony just like Microsoft is not Bungie and bungie is not microsoft

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

no Polyphony Digital did that game

edo-tensei

Okay, Polyphony is a 100% Sony Studio...but playing by your random game, what about ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and God of War? Hmmmm....

You have no room to call other people clueless when you don't know the difference between facts and opinions.

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] no naughty dog is not first party but just like ms case, sony owns uncharted as well as r&k and resistance from imsonniac. And it deosn't take a genious to figure out why sony doesn't lower the of ps3, and that is because they are already losing money on the machine because of bluray, so because of bad launch design choice they can't lower the price or suffer greater loses, just as simple as that.edo-tensei

But you're a level 22 poster that thinks opinions=facts. :|

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Okay, Polyphony is a 100% Sony Studio...but playing by your random game, what about ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and God of War? Hmmmm....

Tragic_Kingdom7

You have no room to call other people clueless when you don't know the difference between facts and opinions.

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] no naughty dog is not first party but just like ms case, sony owns uncharted as well as r&k and resistance from imsonniac. And it deosn't take a genious to figure out why sony doesn't lower the of ps3, and that is because they are already losing money on the machine because of bluray, so because of bad launch design choice they can't lower the price or suffer greater loses, just as simple as that.edo-tensei

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"]you keep going back to your flawed point, because if you do say uncharted has bad graphics then you are in fact wrong, Why? Because if visual representations don't work for you then there are mathematicals reasons that will and mathematics is not a matter of subjective but objective;) don't overthink this becauseyou me and everyone elso look at games by gameplay features which are standards for this medium form, stop your nonsense.

Don't overthink this is merely your way of saying "don't think". You would love for me to not think about this clearly, because it would bring my argument down to your level. Fortunately, I'm not going to do that.

1.) Mathematics=specs. It does not=quality as quality is a subjective judgement. It's really that simple. For somebody who is telling other people to stop overthinking things, you're surely trying to make this more complicated than it is.

2). And actually you don't get to say which standards everybody has to go by. The reason people have such different opinions is because people having differing standards. Whatyou may see as a fundamental to a game being quality, I may not put the same degree of importance on.

To say somebody's objectively wrong for saying Sony doesn't make good exclusives is as asasine as saying that somebody's objectively wrong for saying that vanilla ice cream is not a good food. I know that may be too much for youto cope with as you seem to have lived your life thinking that your opinions are facts, but you're just going have to deal with it because that's life.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="TroyM1"]OMG naughty dog is first part because if they werent they would be called SONY. Sony owns property rights to certain games just like how MS owns the rights to Halo but they did not make that game. BAINS would be a big help

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Okay, Polyphony is a 100% Sony Studio...but playing by your random game, what about ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and God of War? Hmmmm....

You have no room to call other people clueless when you don't know the difference between facts and opinions.

[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"]you keep going back to your flawed point, because if you do say uncharted has bad graphics then you are in fact wrong, Why? Because if visual representations don't work for you then there are mathematicals reasons that will and mathematics is not a matter of subjective but objective;) don't overthink this becauseyou me and everyone elso look at games by gameplay features which are standards for this medium form, stop your nonsense.

edo-tensei

Don't overthink this is merely your way of saying "don't think". You would love for me to not think about this clearly, because it would bring my argument down to your level. Fortunately, I'm not going to do that.

1.) Mathematics=specs. It does not=quality as quality is a subjective judgement. It's really that simple. For somebody who is telling other people to stop overthinking things, you're surely trying to make this more complicated than it is.

2). And actually you don't get to say which standards everybody has to go by. The reason people have such different opinions is because people having differing standards. Whatyou may see as a fundamental to a game being quality, I may not put the same degree of importance on.

To say somebody's objectively wrong for saying Sony doesn't make good exclusives is as asasine as saying that somebody's objectively wrong for saying that vanilla ice cream is not a good food. I know that may be too much for youto cope with as you seem to have lived your life thinking that your opinions are facts, but you're just going have to deal with it because that's life.

In your opinion, it does have quality exclusives. In my opinion, it does have quality exclusives. In lots of other people's opinion, it does have quality exclusives. And then in some otherpeople's opinions, it doesn't. And to others, it's a mixed bag.

There is no "correct answer". It entirely boils down to one's opinion.

[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] omfreakingg this guy is clueless. Polyphony is sony, sony is polyphony, polyphony is sony, sony is polyphony. Wow I have to do is this way so this guy troym1 geys a clue seriously!edo-tensei

You have no room to call other people clueless when you don't know the difference between facts and opinions.

You've clearly expressed that it is a fact that Sony has great exclusives and you haven't admitted that that is merely your opinion, but instead have attached a positive truth value to the statement that Sony has great exclusives. So, no, you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact. If you did, we wouldn't we having the argument we're having.

Sony's Position

We don't want to price cut until we're profitable. To be profitable, we need to sell more PS3s. To sell more PS3s, we need to price cut. But we can't afford to take the short-term loss that price-cutting would create. We're gambling on games and a strong holiday season to provide the sales surge we need - holiday 2009 is our last hope of avoiding an extremely protracted generation.

Activision's Position

Sony wants to be profitable on their hardware, but that lowers our software sales numbers. Without a better PS3 install base, our profit on the PS3 version of our games isn't high enough. We don't really want to drop PS3 support, as it does make money and offset the overall cost of game development. We have to push Sony publicly to drop the price. We're hoping we can increase the public preassure on Sony, so they bite the bullet and drop the price before the holidays. If they don't price cut before May 2010, we're really going to have to start cutting our strings. I hope this gambit works.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="TroyM1"]OMG naughty dog is first part because if they werent they would be called SONY. Sony owns property rights to certain games just like how MS owns the rights to Halo but they did not make that game. BAINS would be a big help

Tragic_Kingdom7

But you're a level 22 poster that thinks opinions=facts. :|

I'd like to think that a sticky will prevent further threads, but we all know that's not true. :P

Anyway I still think this is just Activision pushing their "#1 Publisher" weight around.

[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] okay last time i get into an arguement with a lv 5 poster, my god this guy is just too stubbornTroyM1

But you're a level 22 poster that thinks opinions=facts. :|

I'm not involved in this particular argument.

Sony during the PS2 era would have handled the situation much differently.

PS2 Sony - " I find your lack of faith..... disturbing."

PS3 Sony - "C'mon Activision, you wouldn't do that to poor old Gily! I need this!"

leonalabasters

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] okay last time i get into an arguement with a lv 5 poster, my god this guy is just too stubbornedo-tensei

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

Don't overthink this is merely your way of saying "don't think". You would love for me to not think about this clearly, because it would bring my argument down to your level. Fortunately, I'm not going to do that.

1.) Mathematics=specs. It does not=quality as quality is a subjective judgement. It's really that simple. For somebody who is telling other people to stop overthinking things, you're surely trying to make this more complicated than it is.

2). And actually you don't get to say which standards everybody has to go by. The reason people have such different opinions is because people having differing standards. Whatyou may see as a fundamental to a game being quality, I may not put the same degree of importance on.

To say somebody's objectively wrong for saying Sony doesn't make good exclusives is as asasine as saying that somebody's objectively wrong for saying that vanilla ice cream is not a good food. I know that may be too much for youto cope with as you seem to have lived your life thinking that your opinions are facts, but you're just going have to deal with it because that's life.

In your opinion, it does have quality exclusives. In my opinion, it does have quality exclusives. In lots of other people's opinion, it does have quality ecxclusives. And then in some people'sopinions, it doesn't. And in other people's opinion, it's a mixed bag.

There is no "correct answer". It entirely boils downto one's opinion.

[QUOTE="TroyM1"]

[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

But you're a level 22 poster that thinks opinions=facts. :|

I'm not involved in this particular argument.

STICKY is gone?

What the?

I guess we can flood the ACTIVISION threads again?

Well maybe Activision should start working on a project for 360 PC and maybe MS could help out, every one wins, er well except for Sony, if you read the comments Sony fans don't care about Activision any ways.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

I'd like to think that a sticky will prevent further threads, but we all know that's not true. :P

Anyway I still think this is just Activision pushing their "#1 Publisher" weight around.

redfordo

Sony fanboy?

What?

Obviously, he didn't take it down, another moderator did.

then why do fanboys exist? I'm sure you have called someone a fanboy before in this place after reading his or her comment after his of her opinion of a game so you really have no integrity here, because you can't even respect your own opinion you have been ranting about for an hour after I said the ps3 had great first party exclusives.edo-tensei

1) Fanboys exist because people like yourself believe that opinions are facts. Since fanboys believe their opinions are facts, they get overzealous and are shocked when other people don't agree with them.

2) I have never called somebody a fanboy for having an opinion on a game. You shouldn't attack my integrity based on assumptions.

3) I've stated repeatedly that I agree that Sony has great first party exclusives. What I don't agree with is that this is a fact.It is clear that this is our opinion.

4) I never begrudged you your opinion. I merely said that your opinion about the first party exclusives is not relevant to when talking about the survival of a company.