Bioshock Discussion Thread - 9.0! (Unstickied now)

Wow...what has the system wars board become when a game is negatively viewed because it got a AAA rating? If you don't own a 360, than your probably just pretty jelous right now. if you do own a 360, than you need to suck it up and realize that we just got an amazing game that is unplaybe to our main competition.

[QUOTE="Kestastrophe"][QUOTE="mikasa"][QUOTE="Driftwood111"][QUOTE="mikasa"]

Review looks about right to me. But the sad thing is it sounds like it's a rental even though it's AAA. I don't see much replayability in the game.

But lemmings now have another AAA title.

mikasa

It doesnt sound right to me as average score is 9.7 97%

To me there looks like very little replayability.Without that, how can you give it a 9.5 or 10? TBH it sounds like a rental to me. You can get the great experience it offers in about 20 hours. If you have blockbuster total access you get 1 free game rental per month. You can keep it for a month and only pay a $1.37 restocking fee. So for $1.37 I can enjoy the game just as much as a person who pays $60. If I want to play it again in 6 months I can do the same thing. So for under $3 I can play the game twice in the year.

In nearly all of the reviews I have read, the reviewer mentions that the game is highly replayable because the combat is so varied. Also, there are two endings to the game, which further incentivizes another playthrough.

Playing it twice isn't really replayability. And as I mentioned I can play it for 2 months for under $3. Compare that to say...Halo 2 where it's still has tons of people playing online.

I'm not saying BioSHock is bad, but could use some MP component.

A game like Bioshock doesn't need multiplayer, it nails the single player experience and adding a tacked on multiplayer component would have watered down the game as it would take away development time from the single player story. The argument that games need multiplayer to have replayability or to score well is stupid. Games like RE4, Metroid prime, Zelda OOT did not have it and are the highest ranking games of all time.

After reading how they made it so easy, I'm surprised it got a 9 lol.

I can't believe they made it so you can die, respawn, and the enemies you killed or damaged will still be killed or damaged from when you died while you have all your inventory intact. This is pretty ridiculous. People are going to beat this game in like 12 hrs now. Replay value = 0 when the difficulty is worse than Wii games.

If a Wii game like Metroid had this issue Lems and Cows would be all over it. Why do all the Lems think it's ok just because it's an X360 title? I was looking more forward to Halo3 anyways so stop whinning you little ******.

A game like Bioshock doesn't need multiplayer, it nails the single player experience and adding a tacked on multiplayer component would have watered down the game as it would take away development time from the single player story. The argument that games need multiplayer to have replayability or to score well is stupid. Games like RE4, Metroid prime, Zelda OOT did not have it and are the highest ranking games of all time.Bullets4Brains

Well when the game only lasts like 12 hrs, YES it does need extra content like Multiplayer. The fact you need ZERO skill to beat the game means it needs all the extra content it can get.

Playing it twice isn't really replayability. And as I mentioned I can play it for 2 months for under $3. Compare that to say...Halo 2 where it's still has tons of people playing online.

I'm not saying BioSHock is bad, but could use some MP component.

mikasa

First off, do you really think Bioshock would translate well to MP? If you played the demo or read the review, it would have been plain to see that aiming skill is really not a factor for Bioshock. Doesn't really translate well to MP.

Plus, when did replayability = MP? I for one am glad that they didn't do some half-done MP. It certainly wouldn't have added anything to the experience, and would have mostly just taken development time away from the SP experience. This whole "FPS GAMES DON'T HAVE REPLAYABILITY IF YOU DON'T HAVE MULTI LOL" thing needs to stop.

Well I could see it was good from the demo, but I didn't see GOTY like everyone else did. Itreminds me ofcondemned (and has the same combat system where physical combat, and the animations were a bit laggy (baring in mind killzone 1 had that same problem, along with quite a few more).

The only thing that stood out to me and screamed wow... was the graphics, but again peeps, thats not all it takes to get a GOTY.

Jeff says in his video review that the game doesn't promote exploration because it has that big guide arrow that points you in the direction you're supposed to go, he made a pretty big deal about these arrows. I'd just like to point out that these arrows can be turned off, so that point is mute Jeff, shouldn't have even been brought up as it's optional, like the guide arrows in Oblivion.

Another gripe is his doen't mention this glitch in the video review that makes the game stutter, yet it counts as a negative in the written review. People with the game have said this is a hard drive issue, not a problem witht the game, so that shouldn't have counted against the game either.

It's fair enough if Jeff found the combat unsatisfying, I guess you can't please everyone, but his other problems with the game are not valid as the arrows can be turned off and the glitching is only affecting a few gamers with hard drive issues.

End of rant.

Bullets4Brains

The Arrow is off by defult, so he HAD to have turned it on.

All I can say to all the 9.0 complaining is....I am glade I rely on more than GS for my reviews. To me, it is still a AAAA game. I couldn't care less that it got a 9 here. I stopped caring about GS reviews when they changes systems. I pretty much only use this site for posting and reading previews of new games.l-_-l

How can a game be perfect if it has flaws.

After reading how they made it so easy, I'm surprised it got a 9 lol.

I can't believe they made it so you can die, respawn, and the enemies you killed or damaged will still be killed or damaged from when you died while you have all your inventory intact. This is pretty ridiculous. People are going to beat this game in like 12 hrs now. Replay value = 0 when the difficulty is worse than Wii games.

If a Wii game like Metroid had this issue Lems and Cows would be all over it. Why do all the Lems think it's ok just because it's an X360 title? I was looking more forward to Halo3 anyways so stop whinning you little ******.

darthogre

Other games allow you to respawn and continue where you left off in the fight, Prey, Diablo 2. And you can bump the difficulty up to make the game hard. You're one of those people who can't think for themselves, you take Gamespot's review as gospel and say something like lol when it scores well on other sites. Plus the game is not twelve hours, try twenty. There are many reviews for Bioshock out there not full of flaws like Jeff's review, they are better written and are more in line with the score this game deserves, the new ranking system is flawed, You can't give a game 9.4 anymore, it has to be scaled up or down to fit the new system, Bioshock is the first casualty of this flawed system

[QUOTE="Bullets4Brains"]

Jeff says in his video review that the game doesn't promote exploration because it has that big guide arrow that points you in the direction you're supposed to go, he made a pretty big deal about these arrows. I'd just like to point out that these arrows can be turned off, so that point is mute Jeff, shouldn't have even been brought up as it's optional, like the guide arrows in Oblivion.

Another gripe is his doen't mention this glitch in the video review that makes the game stutter, yet it counts as a negative in the written review. People with the game have said this is a hard drive issue, not a problem witht the game, so that shouldn't have counted against the game either.

It's fair enough if Jeff found the combat unsatisfying, I guess you can't please everyone, but his other problems with the game are not valid as the arrows can be turned off and the glitching is only affecting a few gamers with hard drive issues.

End of rant.

jechtshot78

The Arrow is off by defult, so he HAD to have turned it on.

I know, it's just bizarre for Jeff to enable the guide arrows then complain about them in the review. Oh well, like I said I don't go by one review, I go buy the majority. If I was to believe Jeff's reviews only I would think Wario ware was a 9.1, MGS was a 7, and Bioshock was a 9

Yeah maybe in the twilight zone Jeff.

After reading how they made it so easy, I'm surprised it got a 9 lol.

I can't believe they made it so you can die, respawn, and the enemies you killed or damaged will still be killed or damaged from when you died while you have all your inventory intact. This is pretty ridiculous. People are going to beat this game in like 12 hrs now. Replay value = 0 when the difficulty is worse than Wii games.

If a Wii game like Metroid had this issue Lems and Cows would be all over it. Why do all the Lems think it's ok just because it's an X360 title? I was looking more forward to Halo3 anyways so stop whinning you little ******.

darthogre

Exactly, the hypocrisy is sickening

Wii game is dumbed down - ZOMG teh casuals!!!! The Wii is killing the industry!!!!

360 game is dumbed down - Well i think you'll find that it was a conscious design choice and other games do it and it's not a big deal

fricking fanboys

"Lack of a death penalty"? Last time I recall losing your ammo = bad. Good thing mods will change that on the PC anyhoo if its so bad.Vandalvideo

if you really wanted to impose a death penalty on yourself you could just remove some of your items(or destory them) so that you're weaker. you can do that without a mod. realistically no one really does this.

"Lack of a death penalty"? Last time I recall losing your ammo = bad. Good thing mods will change that on the PC anyhoo if its so bad.Vandalvideo

Hell when you die in a combat situation, it gives you time to take a breather, and asses the situation. If anything thats a good thing, and keeps the game rage to a minimum.

Ah well like you said vandal at least there are mods to change things. Methinks Shock 2 vets are going to tweak it heavily, and I wouldent be surprised to see a Co-op mod like with Shock 2...

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]"Lack of a death penalty"? Last time I recall losing your ammo = bad. Good thing mods will change that on the PC anyhoo if its so bad.Ontain

if you really wanted to impose a death penalty on yourself you could just remove some of your items(or destory them) so that you're weaker. you can do that without a mod. realistically no one really does this.

I just think death penalties are a transparent method to add difficulty to a game. I think of the dealth penalty as a mere gimmick. Oh noes I died, THIS TEN SECOND GAME OVER SCREEN IS SOOOOOO HARD.Vandalvideo

I agree. I would also like to add that games which require the player to die multiple times in order to figure out how to beat it is not good game design. You should not have to dies in order to advance in a game.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"] it's still the same game no matter what it scored.
Bansheesdie

Preach it!

Watch the Video Review!

http://www.gamespot.com/video/931329/6176970/bioshock-video-review-1

Just to play devils advocate. Then why do you have a scoring system?

If Halo 3 scores higher than bioshock, I will officially no longer recognize gamespot as credible.kolobus11

But how do you know that Halo 3 isn't a better game?. I think Gamespot's reviews are more to do with the politics of the site, I think they gave Bioshock a 9 to leave the door open for Halo 3 to get 9.5, two 9.5 in a month for Xbox 360 may have made them look biased. I can see the PC version of Bioshock scoring 9.5 just to cause more controversy

Places like Gamespot need people talking about them, without it they die, what better way to get people talking than to stand out by scoring a game the lowest on the net. Eurogamer did it with Gears of war, they gave it a 8 and reviewed the single player seperate from the multiplayer, a real crap review if ever there was one, but people remember it. And that's all that matters to them.

It's all about hits, nothing else matters.

[QUOTE="kolobus11"]If Halo 3 scores higher than bioshock, I will officially no longer recognize gamespot as credible.Bullets4Brains

But how do you know that Halo 3 isn't a better game?. I think Gamespot's reviews are more to do with the politics of the site, I think they gave Bioshock a 9 to leave the door open for Halo 3 to get 9.5, two 9.5 in a month for Xbox 360 may have made them look biased. I can see the PC version of Bioshock scoring 9.5 just to cause more controversy

Places like Gamespot need people talking about them, without it they die, what better way to get people talking than to stand out by scoring a game the lowest on the net. Eurogamer did it with Gears of war, they gave it a 8 and reviewed the single player seperate from the multiplayer, a real crap review if ever there was one, but people remember it. And that's all that matters to them.

It's all about hits, nothing else matters.

[QUOTE="Bullets4Brains"]

[QUOTE="kolobus11"]If Halo 3 scores higher than bioshock, I will officially no longer recognize gamespot as credible.Vandalvideo

But how do you know that Halo 3 isn't a better game?. I think Gamespot's reviews are more to do with the politics of the site, I think they gave Bioshock a 9 to leave the door open for Halo 3 to get 9.5, two 9.5 in a month for Xbox 360 may have made them look biased. I can see the PC version of Bioshock scoring 9.5 just to cause more controversy

Places like Gamespot need people talking about them, without it they die, what better way to get people talking than to stand out by scoring a game the lowest on the net. Eurogamer did it with Gears of war, they gave it a 8 and reviewed the single player seperate from the multiplayer, a real crap review if ever there was one, but people remember it. And that's all that matters to them.

It's all about hits, nothing else matters.

I must concur. But at the same time, if it is "the best halo game ever", and hte other halo games were worthy of mid/high 9.-something scores, perhaps it will have to be so.

A delineating sequal with a few additions outscoring a full-fledged new, unique game? Theres just something wrong with that.Vandalvideo

The respawn point issue reminds me of the save/load anywhere vs checkpoints debates. Save/load anywhere was bashed on for making a game '' too easy '' back then too , but is all too common now. But maybe irra..sorry, take 2 will add an option to choose respawn without lasting AI damage in a upcoming patch . More choice is good .

Also , when I'm going to play the game , I'll surely DISABLE the guiding arrow , that's no brainer...

One gripe I had with the X360 demo is that my native language isn't English , so I always play games subbed , but the subs did not really match the speech imo , can anyone confirm this ?

Lastly , I am probably going for the x360 version, because I think the three core 3.2 Ghz and custom ati gpu is more capable then my athlon 64 venice 3000+ @ 2.6Ghz with 1.5 Gb ram and 7900 GS , Although I can hook up both pc and 360 on the 40'' HD bravia , I think the good ole pc will struggle @ 1280x720.

Both deus ex 1 and System Shock 2 went in like sweety pie , Bioshock will be no different ,)

The respawn point issue reminds me of thesave/load anywhere vs checkpoints debates. Save/load anywhere was bashed on for making a game '' too easy '' back then too , but is all too common now. But maybe irra..sorry, take 2 will add an option to chooserespawn without lasting AI damage in a upcoming patch . More choice is good .

Also , when I'm going to play the game , I'll surely DISABLE the guiding arrow , that's no brainer...

One gripeI had with the X360 demois thatmy native language isn't English , so I always play games subbed , but the subs did not really match the speech imo , can anyone confirm this ?

Lastly , I am probably goingfor thex360 version, becauseI think thethree core 3.2 Ghz and custom ati gpu is more capable then my athlon 64 venice 3000+ @ 2.6Ghz with 1.5 Gb ram and 7900 GS , Although I can hook up both pc and 360 on the 40'' HD bravia , I think the good ole pc will struggle @ 1280x720.

Both deus ex 1 and System Shock 2 went in like sweety pie , Bioshock will be no different ,)

TheC0mmunist

Jeff main complain about the game is the combat system . But while watching the video I understood something .......Jeff , this isn't gears of war . DAM , I only saw him use 2 plasmid ( out of 70 ) , dam sure he don't like the combat system , the only thing you see him do is empty is gun on everything that move :roll: ......... what a noob .

This game is about using the environment , setting traps , using plasmid , USING UR BRAIN . NOT about emptying ur pump shotgun expecting the ennemies to explode in pieces .

There is no such thing as bad publicity for gaming sites, it's not in their interest to fit in with everyone else, they have to rock the boat to stand out and make a name for themselves, they all do it at one time or another. Jeff's review was last out the gate, he needed something in it to make people take notice. Adding in some non issue negatives like a guide arrow that can be turned off, glitches that only affect a few people, saying the combat is unsatisfying (first I've heard),and a lower score than everyone else is what was needed to cause people to take notice.

There is a lot more going on than you realise with big gaming sites like this, don't take their reviews to seriously as there are many factors that go into a review that we know nothing about. At the end of the day, they need to make money, you don't make money by being the same as everyone else and playing nicely.

Gamespot is a business, not your friendly gaming site that wants to champion games.

There is no such thing as bad publicity for gaming sites, it's not in their interest to fit in with everyone else, they have to rock the boat to stand out and make a name for themselves, they all do it at one time or another. Jeff's review was last out the gate, he needed something in it to make people take notice. Adding in some non issue negatives like a guide arrow that can be turned off, glitches that only affect a few people, saying the combat isunsatisfying (first I've heard),and a lower score than everyone else is what was needed to cause people to take notice.

There is a lot more going on that you realise with big gaming sites like this, don't take their reviews to seriously as there are many factors that go into a review that we know nothing about.

Bullets4Brains

Jeff main complain about the game is the combat system . But while watching the video I understood something .......Jeff , this isn't gears of war . DAM , I only saw him use 2 plasmid ( out of 70 ) , dam sure he don't like the combat system , the only thing you see him do is empty is gun on everything that move :roll: ......... what a noob .

This game is about using the environment , setting traps , using plasmid , USING UR BRAIN . NOT about emptying ur pump shotgun expecting the ennemies to explode in pieces .

Prid3r

[QUOTE="kolobus11"]If Halo 3 scores higher than bioshock, I will officially no longer recognize gamespot as credible.Bullets4Brains

But how do you know that Halo 3 isn't a better game?. I think Gamespot's reviews are more to do with the politics of the site, I think they gave Bioshock a 9 to leave the door open for Halo 3 to get 9.5, two 9.5 in a month for Xbox 360 may have made them look biased. I can see the PC version of Bioshock scoring 9.5 just to cause more controversy

Places like Gamespot need people talking about them, without it they die, what better way to get people talking than to stand out by scoring a game the lowest on the net. Eurogamer did it with Gears of war, they gave it a 8 and reviewed the single player seperate from the multiplayer, a real crap review if ever there was one, but people remember it. And that's all that matters to them.

It's all about hits, nothing else matters.

[QUOTE="Prid3r"]

Jeff main complain about the game is the combat system . But while watching the video I understood something .......Jeff , this isn't gears of war . DAM , I only saw him use 2 plasmid ( out of 70 ) , dam sure he don't like the combat system , the only thing you see him do is empty is gun on everything that move :roll: ......... what a noob .

This game is about using the environment , setting traps , using plasmid , USING UR BRAIN . NOT about emptying ur pump shotgun expecting the ennemies to explode in pieces .

RobbieH1234

Well that's certainly ironic now isn't it?

[QUOTE="dubvisions"]Sorry, this is a very noob question. I've seen the hype stickies. i see where Casey says that this game was hyped AAA. Where is that information located? Where do I go look up what the final hype vote was on a particular game?mikasa

Yeah, casey doens't do a very good job of setting up the stickies with info. He just assumes you've been here everyday/everyhour and posts something relevant for the minute at hand. One would hope he's post links to some background info. Heck, he doesn't even link to the review, so the odds of him improving the other aspects aren't going to happen.

it's because bioshock had no "official" hype thread because it's multiplat. when a game that did have an official stickied thread is reviewed, i include that with the official review discussion thread.

[QUOTE="mikasa"]Playing it twice isn't really replayability. And as I mentioned I can play it for 2 months for under $3. Compare that to say...Halo 2 where it's still has tons of people playing online.

I'm not saying BioSHock is bad, but could use some MP component.

Bullets4Brains

A game like Bioshock doesn't need multiplayer, it nails the single player experience and adding a tacked on multiplayer component would have watered down the game as it would take away development time from the single player story. The argument that games need multiplayer to have replayability or to score well is stupid. Games like RE4, Metroid prime, Zelda OOT did not have it and are the highest ranking games of all time.

Standards have changed since those games have came out. A 15-20 hour game with maybe 2 or 3 replays before you're really tired of it shouldn't get GOTY.

Also Jeff is right in that the combat isn't very satisfying. It feels more like a task instead of something fun.

[QUOTE="mikasa"]

Playing it twice isn't really replayability. And as I mentioned I can play it for 2 months for under $3. Compare that to say...Halo 2 where it's still has tons of people playing online.

I'm not saying BioSHock is bad, but could use some MP component.

Ellipson

First off, do you really think Bioshock would translate well to MP? If you played the demo or read the review, it would have been plain to see that aiming skill is really not a factor for Bioshock. Doesn't really translate well to MP.

Plus, when did replayability = MP? I for one am glad that they didn't do some half-done MP. It certainly wouldn't have added anything to the experience, and would have mostly just taken development time away from the SP experience. This whole "FPS GAMES DON'T HAVE REPLAYABILITY IF YOU DON'T HAVE MULTI LOL" thing needs to stop.

True...it won't translate to MP very well. And that's because the combat really isnt' that good. Like jeff said..it's not very satisfying. The demo left me...meh on the gameplay which is the most important part of the game. Gears was fun to play. Bioshock isn't really FUN to play, but it is good and will be fun like reading a book is fun. It's a different experience which is good but face it...it's more of a story book that you experience vs. a game.

[QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="dubvisions"]Sorry, this is a very noob question. I've seen the hype stickies. i see where Casey says that this game was hyped AAA. Where is that information located? Where do I go look up what the final hype vote was on a particular game?CaseyWegner

Yeah, casey doens't do a very good job of setting up the stickies with info. He just assumes you've been here everyday/everyhour and posts something relevant for the minute at hand. One would hope he's post links to some background info. Heck, he doesn't even link to the review, so the odds of him improving the other aspects aren't going to happen.

it's because bioshock had no "official" hype thread because it's multiplat. when a game that did have an official stickied thread is reviewed, i include that with the official review discussion thread.

Ah so this comment by you wasn't a fact.

the game got a AAA score WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS HYPED TO BE.
CaseyWegner

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="dubvisions"]Sorry, this is a very noob question. I've seen the hype stickies. i see where Casey says that this game was hyped AAA. Where is that information located? Where do I go look up what the final hype vote was on a particular game?mikasa

Yeah, casey doens't do a very good job of setting up the stickies with info. He just assumes you've been here everyday/everyhour and posts something relevant for the minute at hand. One would hope he's post links to some background info. Heck, he doesn't even link to the review, so the odds of him improving the other aspects aren't going to happen.

it's because bioshock had no "official" hype thread because it's multiplat. when a game that did have an official stickied thread is reviewed, i include that with the official review discussion thread.

Ah so this comment by you wasn't a fact.

the game got a AAA score WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS HYPED TO BE.
CaseyWegner

there was a hype thread for it...it just wasn't "official".

I played the demo on Live, and was impressed. I thought the emotion evoking story, setting,visuals and twist on FPS gameplay was great. But seriously. Even if this game was the next coming of the messiah of gaming, it still couldn't get AAAA without online play. I thought that was a serious fumble on the dev's part. The online is where you get you're value in a game. I fininshed Rainbow Six Vegas god knows how long ago and I'm still addicted to the MP. No online MP = game rental for me. I think a 9 is a very fair score.

[QUOTE="Bullets4Brains"]

[QUOTE="kolobus11"]If Halo 3 scores higher than bioshock, I will officially no longer recognize gamespot as credible.kolobus11

But how do you know that Halo 3 isn't a better game?. I think Gamespot's reviews are more to do with the politics of the site, I think they gave Bioshock a 9 to leave the door open for Halo 3 to get 9.5, two 9.5 in a month for Xbox 360 may have made them look biased. I can see the PC version of Bioshock scoring 9.5 just to cause more controversy

Places like Gamespot need people talking about them, without it they die, what better way to get people talking than to stand out by scoring a game the lowest on the net. Eurogamer did it with Gears of war, they gave it a 8 and reviewed the single player seperate from the multiplayer, a real crap review if ever there was one, but people remember it. And that's all that matters to them.

It's all about hits, nothing else matters.

I've played both the Halo3 MP beta and the Bioshock Demo. graphics Bioshock wins. But gameplay Halo3 blows bioshock out of the water.