Cliffy B - "360 Not Maxxed Out"

http://www.lensoftruth.com/theres-still-more-power-left-in-the-xbox-360-says-cliffy-b/

"I think if we bring out any more products on the 360 depending on life cycle, we'll be able to squeeze more water from that stone". That's why Gears 3 have zero AA, right?

I agree. Current gen consoles can be improved upon.

when you think about it, it's not very impressive to say that you can't max out a 5 or 6 year old console, and i'm not even a pc gamer

lol

Crossel777

this is really the only right reponse

I agree. Current gen consoles can be improved upon.

15strong

It's so far into diminishing returns that any improvements are hardly noticable and cost more than they're worth.

@TC Gears 3 has zero AA? Pretty sure it's using FXAA.

[QUOTE="15strong"]

I agree. Current gen consoles can be improved upon.

ChubbyGuy40

It's so far into diminishing returns that any improvements are hardly noticable and cost more than they're worth.

@TC Gears 3 has zero AA? Pretty sure it's using FXAA.

All I'm saying is if they made a gears 4, it would look better.

[QUOTE="15strong"]

I agree. Current gen consoles can be improved upon.

ChubbyGuy40

It's so far into diminishing returns that any improvements are hardly noticable and cost more than they're worth.

@TC Gears 3 has zero AA? Pretty sure it's using FXAA.

Gears 3 have zero AA indeed.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-gears-of-war-3

[QUOTE="15strong"]

I agree. Current gen consoles can be improved upon.

ChubbyGuy40

It's so far into diminishing returns that any improvements are hardly noticable and cost more than they're worth.

@TC Gears 3 has zero AA? Pretty sure it's using FXAA.

I suppose he means that it did'nt have any AA before the world was introduced to FXAA, which the delay incidently gave them time to implement.

Edit: Personally, I believe a term like "squeezing more water from the stone" differs quite a bit from something like "not maxxed out".

QUICK 360 OWNERS! STEAL THAT CROWN FROM THE PS3 AND RUN AWAY WITH THAT GRAPIX KING WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

On the other hand, I call bs, but what do I know? :P

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="15strong"]

I agree. Current gen consoles can be improved upon.

rich-sac

It's so far into diminishing returns that any improvements are hardly noticable and cost more than they're worth.

@TC Gears 3 has zero AA? Pretty sure it's using FXAA.

Gears 3 have zero AA indeed.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-gears-of-war-3

Incorrect. A.A was implamented after the beta.

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

It's so far into diminishing returns that any improvements are hardly noticable and cost more than they're worth.

@TC Gears 3 has zero AA? Pretty sure it's using FXAA.

Bretter2200

Gears 3 have zero AA indeed.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-gears-of-war-3

Incorrect. A.A was implamented after the beta.

if you'd actually read the Digitalfoundry link I posted above ^, you'd know for sure that Gears 3 have ZERO AA, yes Retail Final Build. bullshots are bullshots

Everytime PS3 tries stealing the crown, ol' Cliffy B. comes in and helps the 360! Can't touch this, nanana, nana, nanananana...

If its not maxed out then max it out. Try harder. Its 6 year old hardware.

when you think about it, it's not very impressive to say that you can't max out a 5 or 6 year old console, and i'm not even a pc gamer

da_illest101

technology developes I guess.so 360 and ps3 are still able to impress us.when you can't use norma AA becouse your hardware is old you devlope FXAA and MLAA to cover your harware weak points.it's all about technology IMO.

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

Gears 3 have zero AA indeed.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-gears-of-war-3

rich-sac

Incorrect. A.A was implamented after the beta.

if you'd actually read the Digitalfoundry link I posted above ^, you'd know for sure that Gears 3 have ZERO AA, yes Retail Final Build. bullshots are bullshots

Right, because there blatent words with no evidence what so ever prove so. Especially when there not developers for the game.

Regardless, I have pictures; and you can clearly see the improvement. Do you honestly think those are bull shots?

[QUOTE="15strong"]

I agree. Current gen consoles can be improved upon.

ChubbyGuy40

It's so far into diminishing returns that any improvements are hardly noticable and cost more than they're worth.

@TC Gears 3 has zero AA? Pretty sure it's using FXAA.

I agree and will say this for all consoles. I think even on the PS3 you won't find better results really. But on that, devs will still find more efficient ways off doing things, as one of their 1st party dev has pointed out.

The strange thing is, all sides believe there is more juice in the tank.

I hear Wii fans who are convinced the Wii is capable, telling me it's because no one has put any effort in and it's capable of more :roll:.

PS3 fans keep talking about these stunning looking games which are leagues ahead of the competition but look more or less on a level to me.

And 360 fans say there's more to squeeze, come on now.

I'm not sold on the idea that any of the three have anything left.

when you can't use norma AA becouse your hardware is old you devlope FXAA and MLAA to cover your harware weak points.

noob-saibot2010

I'm pretty sure these technologies were developed because you can't use normal AA methods with deferred rendering on consoles, and because AA in general takes far too much power.

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

Incorrect. A.A was implamented after the beta.

Bretter2200

if you'd actually read the Digitalfoundry link I posted above ^, you'd know for sure that Gears 3 have ZERO AA, yes Retail Final Build. bullshots are bullshots

Right, because there blatent words with no evidence what so ever prove so. Especially when there not developers for the game.

Regardless, I have pictures; and you can clearly see the improvement. Do you honestly think those are bull shots?

hahahha so you trust some random picture posted on the web, but you dont trust Digitalfoundry? FAIL

[QUOTE="noob-saibot2010"]

when you can't use norma AA becouse your hardware is old you devlope FXAA and MLAA to cover your harware weak points.

ChubbyGuy40

I'm pretty sure these technologies were developed because you can't use normal AA methods with deferred rendering on consoles, and because AA in general takes far too much power.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="noob-saibot2010"]

when you can't use norma AA becouse your hardware is old you devlope FXAA and MLAA to cover your harware weak points.

CwlHeddwyn

I'm pretty sure these technologies were developed because you can't use normal AA methods with deferred rendering on consoles, and because AA in general takes far too much power.

I think you should read up on deferred rendering and AA. 'A less emotional perspective on topics such as this would'nt hurt you and your credibility either.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="noob-saibot2010"]

when you can't use norma AA becouse your hardware is old you devlope FXAA and MLAA to cover your harware weak points.

CwlHeddwyn

I'm pretty sure these technologies were developed because you can't use normal AA methods with deferred rendering on consoles, and because AA in general takes far too much power.

Optimization at this point is basically devs trading off things like resolution and etc for other things. I wanna see this optimization you guys brag about get your best looking games actually rendered in 1080p and etc with still high frame rates.

OF course to obtain better graphics you need to upgrade your hardware consoles aren't going perform Samiritan magically because of "optimization"

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

if you'd actually read the Digitalfoundry link I posted above ^, you'd know for sure that Gears 3 have ZERO AA, yes Retail Final Build. bullshots are bullshots

rich-sac

Right, because there blatent words with no evidence what so ever prove so. Especially when there not developers for the game.

Regardless, I have pictures; and you can clearly see the improvement. Do you honestly think those are bull shots?

hahahha so you trust some random picture posted on the web, but you dont trust Digitalfoundry? FAIL

It's not a random picture, I took it myself.

I trust DF, but perhaps they were refering to the beta or got there notion of it. I can link you to those particular screen shots that were taken on the same video in motion.

Obviously there's been a lot of improvement. And jags are far less noticeable on the retail build then generally in the beta.

Not to mention Epic updated UE specifically for FXAA shortly after the Gears of war 3 beta.

Also note that attempting to make your argument more realible by saying "hahaha" or attempting to laugh via text on the internet makes you look like an imbecile. I wouldn't suggust it.

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

Right, because there blatent words with no evidence what so ever prove so. Especially when there not developers for the game.

Regardless, I have pictures; and you can clearly see the improvement. Do you honestly think those are bull shots?

Bretter2200

hahahha so you trust some random picture posted on the web, but you dont trust Digitalfoundry? FAIL

It's not a random picture, I took it myself.

I trust DF, but perhaps they were refering to the beta or got there notion of it. I can link you to those particular screen shots that were taken on the same video in motion.

Obviously there's been a lot of improvement. And jags are far less noticeable on the retail build then generally in the beta.

Not to mention Epic updated UE specifically for FXAA shortly after the Gears of war 3 beta.

Also note that attempting to make your argument more realible by saying "hahaha" or attempting to laugh via text on the internet makes you look like an imbecile. I wouldn't suggust it.

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

I'm pretty sure these technologies were developed because you can't use normal AA methods with deferred rendering on consoles, and because AA in general takes far too much power.

MlauTheDaft

I think you should read up on deferred rendering and AA. 'A less emotional perspective on topics such as this would'nt hurt you and your credibility either.

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

[QUOTE="rich-sac"]

hahahha so you trust some random picture posted on the web, but you dont trust Digitalfoundry? FAIL

rich-sac

It's not a random picture, I took it myself.

I trust DF, but perhaps they were refering to the beta or got there notion of it. I can link you to those particular screen shots that were taken on the same video in motion.

Obviously there's been a lot of improvement. And jags are far less noticeable on the retail build then generally in the beta.

Not to mention Epic updated UE specifically for FXAA shortly after the Gears of war 3 beta.

Also note that attempting to make your argument more realible by saying "hahaha" or attempting to laugh via text on the internet makes you look like an imbecile. I wouldn't suggust it.

Dang, I didn't know you were part of the Gears of war 3 development team. Alright, I'll take your word for it, because obviously you're a developer for Gears of war 3.

I mean, it's perfectly normal for jags to dissapear without the inclusion of A.A.

AAAHHHH snap 360 about to go Super Saiyan.

But seriously if thats the case then why doesn't Gears 3 look far better than the PS3 Exclusives? Not saying it doesn't look good but if Cliffy can pull more out of the 360 then why not do it, especially when you had 3 or 4 extra months of polish you could have put on it?

AAAHHHH snap 360 about to go Super Saiyan.

But seriously if thats the case then why doesn't Gears 3 look far better than the PS3 Exclusives? Not saying it doesn't look good but if Cliffy can pull more out of the 360 then why not do it, especially when you had 3 or 4 extra months of polish you could have put on it?

slaves

Because re-creating every single texture in a four month period isn't possible.

[QUOTE="rich-sac"][QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

It's not a random picture, I took it myself.

I trust DF, but perhaps they were refering to the beta or got there notion of it. I can link you to those particular screen shots that were taken on the same video in motion.

Obviously there's been a lot of improvement. And jags are far less noticeable on the retail build then generally in the beta.

Not to mention Epic updated UE specifically for FXAA shortly after the Gears of war 3 beta.

Also note that attempting to make your argument more realible by saying "hahaha" or attempting to laugh via text on the internet makes you look like an imbecile. I wouldn't suggust it.

Bretter2200

Dang, I didn't know you were part of the Gears of war 3 development team. Alright, I'll take your word for it, because obviously you're a developer for Gears of war 3.

I mean, it's perfectly normal for jags to dissapear without the inclusion of A.A.

[QUOTE="slaves"]

AAAHHHH snap 360 about to go Super Saiyan.

But seriously if thats the case then why doesn't Gears 3 look far better than the PS3 Exclusives? Not saying it doesn't look good but if Cliffy can pull more out of the 360 then why not do it, especially when you had 3 or 4 extra months of polish you could have put on it?

Bretter2200

Because re-creating every single texture in a four month period isn't possible.

Yeah but its not like he just found out that he can do more with the 360 so if its possible then why not do it.

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

[QUOTE="slaves"]

AAAHHHH snap 360 about to go Super Saiyan.

But seriously if thats the case then why doesn't Gears 3 look far better than the PS3 Exclusives? Not saying it doesn't look good but if Cliffy can pull more out of the 360 then why not do it, especially when you had 3 or 4 extra months of polish you could have put on it?

slaves

Because re-creating every single texture in a four month period isn't possible.

Yeah but its not like he just found out that he can do more with the 360 so if its possible then why not do it.

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

[QUOTE="rich-sac"] Epic tested out FXAA and it is not in the Final build. Need I say more? It Blurs the image to much and causes flickering, and Gears games have always been about sharp, non aliasing thus they did not incorporate FXAA. end of story. If you like FXAA so much, go play deus ex and driverrich-sac

Dang, I didn't know you were part of the Gears of war 3 development team. Alright, I'll take your word for it, because obviously you're a developer for Gears of war 3.

I mean, it's perfectly normal for jags to dissapear without the inclusion of A.A.

Really, because I stated you weren't part of the Epic development team. I never said you didn't own the game. Clearly it is using FXAA, it's not hard to see the general improvement from the beta (Not using FXAA) to the retail build. Hence the reason I "need to get over it" and you don't.

AAAHHHH snap 360 about to go Super Saiyan.

But seriously if thats the case then why doesn't Gears 3 look far better than the PS3 Exclusives? Not saying it doesn't look good but if Cliffy can pull more out of the 360 then why not do it, especially when you had 3 or 4 extra months of polish you could have put on it?

slaves

pfftt super saiyan is nothin when your up against and

[QUOTE="rich-sac"][QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

Dang, I didn't know you were part of the Gears of war 3 development team. Alright, I'll take your word for it, because obviously you're a developer for Gears of war 3.

I mean, it's perfectly normal for jags to dissapear without the inclusion of A.A.

Bretter2200

Really, because I stated you weren't part of the Epic development team. I never said you didn't own the game. Clearly it is using FXAA, it's not hard to see the general improvement from the beta (Not using FXAA) to the retail build. Hence the reason I "need to get over it" and you don't.

[QUOTE="Bretter2200"]

[QUOTE="rich-sac"] Dude I own Geow3, in case you didn't see my locked post this morning on my Gears 3 graphical analysis, and yes there plenty of jaggies. How would I know? I own the game, do you? No FXAA isn't the end of the world, get over itrich-sac

Really, because I stated you weren't part of the Epic development team. I never said you didn't own the game. Clearly it is using FXAA, it's not hard to see the general improvement from the beta (Not using FXAA) to the retail build. Hence the reason I "need to get over it" and you don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14

It's a great looking game, but if it has any AA then it completely sucks. Graphics are irregular here and there, sometimes it doesn't look like the new lighting has kicked in.Overall though, it is in every level better than the second and that is very good.

[QUOTE="slaves"]

AAAHHHH snap 360 about to go Super Saiyan.

But seriously if thats the case then why doesn't Gears 3 look far better than the PS3 Exclusives? Not saying it doesn't look good but if Cliffy can pull more out of the 360 then why not do it, especially when you had 3 or 4 extra months of polish you could have put on it?

NoodleFighter

pfftt super saiyan is nothin when your up against and

LOL You are correct my friend but I don't think any console has ascended this far yet.

That's why alot of games struggle to run in HD and can't even compare to PC.

The question is all backwards...

It's not if the 360 is maxed out, it's if the games can be maxed out on the 360. And that is a solid "No"

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="slaves"]

AAAHHHH snap 360 about to go Super Saiyan.

But seriously if thats the case then why doesn't Gears 3 look far better than the PS3 Exclusives? Not saying it doesn't look good but if Cliffy can pull more out of the 360 then why not do it, especially when you had 3 or 4 extra months of polish you could have put on it?

slaves

pfftt super saiyan is nothin when your up against and

LOL You are correct my friend but I don't think any console has ascended this far yet.

Cell=PS3 :P

SSJ4 Gogeta=PC

Wii=Krillin

Who even cares at this point? Maxing an xbox360 means about as much as maxing out the original xbox's graphics after the 360 had been released... technology has long since moved on. Even if console devs get closer to this theoretical limit, it won't be impressive.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="noob-saibot2010"]

when you can't use norma AA becouse your hardware is old you devlope FXAA and MLAA to cover your harware weak points.

CwlHeddwyn

I'm pretty sure these technologies were developed because you can't use normal AA methods with deferred rendering on consoles, and because AA in general takes far too much power.

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

I'm pretty sure these technologies were developed because you can't use normal AA methods with deferred rendering on consoles, and because AA in general takes far too much power.

savagetwinkie

Except most of the devs doing the 'optimizing' are ex-PC devs...

Anyhow, I really don't think game opimization is coding gymnastics as much as it is content trimming. Does the level run like garbage? Simplify the tree and foilage geometry on outlying areas. Still runs like garbage? Remove some trees and foliage. Still garbage? Reduce the number of enemies. Reduce draw distance. Reduce the resolution. Reduce texture resolutions. Remove lighting sources and so on until the bloody level works.

Throw a greasy blur filter over the whole thing and then talk about how your game is close to maxing out a system. Sure, there are coding optimizations, but I doubt it's anywhere to the extent people on these boards seem to think it is. I guess "Using the lowest quality assets to achieve the appearance of high image quality" doesn't sound as good as optimization.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] It's called optimisation something not much used in the PC world. In the PC world you just upgrade the hardware to boost the graphics. In the console world you've gotta learn how to cut the right corners.juno84

Except most of the devs doing the 'optimizing' are ex-PC devs...

Anyhow, I really don't think game opimization is coding gymnastics as much as it is content trimming. Does the level run like garbage? Simplify the tree and foilage geometry on outlying areas. Still runs like garbage? Remove some trees and foliage. Still garbage? Reduce the number of enemies. Reduce draw distance. Reduce the resolution. Reduce texture resolutions. Remove lighting sources and so on until the bloody level works.

Throw a greasy blur filter over the whole thing and then talk about how your game is close to maxing out a system. Sure, there are coding optimizations, but I doubt it's anywhere to the extent people on these boards seem to think it is. I guess "Using the lowest quality assets to achieve the appearance of high image quality" doesn't sound as good as optimization.

For PC optimization devs should actually code games to detect our hardware full use. A game should be able to recognize a player with a quad core or up system which can boost the performance. They should also be able to detect what type of GPU I have.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] It's called optimisation something not much used in the PC world. In the PC world you just upgrade the hardware to boost the graphics. In the console world you've gotta learn how to cut the right corners.juno84

Except most of the devs doing the 'optimizing' are ex-PC devs...

Anyhow, I really don't think game opimization is coding gymnastics as much as it is content trimming. Does the level run like garbage? Simplify the tree and foilage geometry on outlying areas. Still runs like garbage? Remove some trees and foliage. Still garbage? Reduce the number of enemies. Reduce draw distance. Reduce the resolution. Reduce texture resolutions. Remove lighting sources and so on until the bloody level works.

Throw a greasy blur filter over the whole thing and then talk about how your game is close to maxing out a system. Sure, there are coding optimizations, but I doubt it's anywhere to the extent people on these boards seem to think it is. I guess "Using the lowest quality assets to achieve the appearance of high image quality" doesn't sound as good as optimization.

Cliffy B will literally say anything good about Microsoft.