Crysis 2 PC already ravaged by piracy!

The answer to piracy is simple: DRM/Steam/etc.

Blops - you CANNOT play online with a pirated copy, same with BC2, same probably with Crysis 2haberman13

The solution of online only really isn't a simple solution since it doesn't solve the piracy of single player games. But yes that is the strategy that big publishers are taking as seen by the glut of MMOs.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]The answer to piracy is simple: DRM/Steam/etc.

Blops - you CANNOT play online with a pirated copy, same with BC2, same probably with Crysis 2dc337

The solution of online only really isn't a simple solution since it doesn't solve the piracy of single player games. But yes that is the strategy that big publishers are taking as seen by the glut of MMOs.

Steam, can't pirate a SP game using Steam only. Bioshock also had an online authentication, without using Steam.

But in the end, Steam, and things like it.

Piracy is dying soon, mark my words. The DRM whiners are going away as well. Better to have DRM and GOOD PC games, than no DRM + Piracy and awful console ports.

PC game piracy was a temporal situation caused by the explosion of the internet + digital + torrents; publishers have finally caught up and are implementing anti-stealing measures.

The only pirates I know are pirating xbox games for their modded system; I rip on them regularly for it.

Music/Movie/Games - if you pirate them you are a low down piece of scum, no different than a crackhead holding up a liquor store from an objective moral sense.

[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"][QUOTE="Sushiglutton"]Crysis has been the most technically advanced game for four years. It has sold 3+ million copies in that time. A lot of those copies have been at reduced price (it costs $15 today, but have been $10 at sales). Compare this to the less advanced console exclusive RDR, which has sold 8M+ copies in less than a year (much higher average price). Blops sold almost that (7M) in 24h (95% console sales)! No wonder that Crytek, with the superior product, feels disapointed!dc337

dc337? really come on there has statements from multiple devs and publishers that piracy is over blown. 04dcarraher

I'm predicting a > 50% piracy rate for the pc version of Crysis 2. I base that on sound statistics that I politely explained but I can see that many pc gamers like yourself have a very hard time with the reality of pc piracy and choose to live in denial.

Steam, can't pirate a SP game using Steam only. Bioshock also had an online authentication, without using Steam.haberman13

Music/Movie/Games - if you pirate them you are a low down piece of scumhaberman13

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]dc337? really come on there has statements from multiple devs and publishers that piracy is over blown. dc337

I'm predicting a > 50% piracy rate for the pc version of Crysis 2. I base that on sound statistics that I politely explained but I can see that many pc gamers like yourself have a very hard time with the reality of pc piracy and choose to live in denial.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]Steam, can't pirate a SP game using Steam only. Bioshock also had an online authentication, without using Steam.dc337

And when have you ever seen Valve complain about piracy?

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090219/1124433835.shtml

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]dc337? really come on there has statements from multiple devs and publishers that piracy is over blown. dc337

I'm predicting a > 50% piracy rate for the pc version of Crysis 2. I base that on sound statistics that I politely explained but I can see that many pc gamers like yourself have a very hard time with the reality of pc piracy and choose to live in denial.

I'm predicting that 50% of all console games are sold 2nd hand, none of this cash goes to the publishers and the publishers hate this and are trying to stop it. So dc have you ever bought a 2nd hand consoel game? Or traded one in?

Look at where the info comes from, watching torrent sites seeding. You do know that people seed popular files without intending to use them right? That is how viruses spread, which is 90% of torrents.

haberman13

[QUOTE="haberman13"]Steam, can't pirate a SP game using Steam only. Bioshock also had an online authentication, without using Steam.dc337

Music/Movie/Games - if you pirate them you are a low down piece of scumhaberman13

OK, but its a matter of scale, just like console piracy... sure you CAN do it, but how many people do?

Is it worth risking your Steam account to play an illegally downloaded game? Sure, for some random sociopath.

Point is "piracy on PC" is overblown. Steam presents enough deterrent to make just buying a game more worthwhile, not to mention the incredible deals Steam has. Why be a dirty pirate bastard when you can wait 3 months and get the game for $10? People are waking up.

The game will still, most probably, be pirated to hell on the PC and I wouldn't be surprised. Why? Because the PC community is solely composed of pirates? No. Simply because they exist and will always exist and when you have such an easy platform to pirate from such as the PC, the numbers will always remain high.

I still don't get how people can claim that a platform is dying or has never been much alive, or how the PC community is composed solely of pirates, when you have a platform that holds such a significant percentage share in the whole of the gaming industry.

People will of course complain, and so will the developers and you know what they have all the right in the world to do so; however, treating the whole of the PC community as a bunch of pirates who think they're entitled to everything they want is a downright highly exaggerated fallacy.

All of it said, it's downright surprising in seeing such a low number. We're talking about a game that hasn't come out yet, it's highly anticipated and easy to torrent from any x site on the web, and we've only witnessed 10,000 downloads, some of which might actually buy the game when it comes out...

pc gaming in the early 90s was innocent dude. Quake 1996 or quake 2 1997 didnt even ship with any copy protection. I MISS THOSE DAY'S BEFORE EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA GOT A PC.thcxanthrax420

[QUOTE="thcxanthrax420"]pc gaming in the early 90s was innocent dude. Quake 1996 or quake 2 1997 didnt even ship with any copy protection. I MISS THOSE DAY'S BEFORE EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA GOT A PC.dc337

How big of a group? Because 10k people seems pretty small given the size of the population gaming on PC.

[QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]dc337? really come on there has statements from multiple devs and publishers that piracy is over blown. tenaka2

I'm predicting a > 50% piracy rate for the pc version of Crysis 2. I base that on sound statistics that I politely explained but I can see that many pc gamers like yourself have a very hard time with the reality of pc piracy and choose to live in denial.

I'm predicting that 50% of all console games are sold 2nd hand, none of this cash goes to the publishers and the publishers hate this and are trying to stop it. So dc have you ever bought a 2nd hand consoel game? Or traded one in?

[QUOTE="thcxanthrax420"]pc gaming in the early 90s was innocent dude. Quake 1996 or quake 2 1997 didnt even ship with any copy protection. I MISS THOSE DAY'S BEFORE EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA GOT A PC.dc337

[QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="thcxanthrax420"]pc gaming in the early 90s was innocent dude. Quake 1996 or quake 2 1997 didnt even ship with any copy protection. I MISS THOSE DAY'S BEFORE EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA GOT A PC.haberman13

How big of a group? Because 10k people seems pretty small given the size of the population gaming on PC.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

[QUOTE="dc337"] You don't have to tell me that. Even in 2003 you could buy a pc game at the store and just go home and play it. Piracy didn't explode until torrents came along. Now there is a big group of pc gamers that think piracy of anything is fine and that money should only go to hardware.

dc337

How big of a group? Because 10k people seems pretty small given the size of the population gaming on PC.

"Record breaking" - false positive data, and breaking a record against their own data, which is limited and doesn't account for the reality of PC gaming (digital purchasing and the fact that torrents are 99% trojans)

You are supporting FOX news method of non-analysis by continuing to suggest this.

Address those two key points effectively, and you might have an argument. I'm not saying PC piracy isn't a problem, I'm saying "50% of blops players are pirates" ----> incredibly lol-worthy suggestion.

[QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="thcxanthrax420"]pc gaming in the early 90s was innocent dude. Quake 1996 or quake 2 1997 didnt even ship with any copy protection. I MISS THOSE DAY'S BEFORE EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA GOT A PC.Iantheone

[QUOTE="Iantheone"][QUOTE="dc337"] You don't have to tell me that. Even in 2003 you could buy a pc game at the store and just go home and play it. Piracy didn't explode until torrents came along. Now there is a big group of pc gamers that think piracy of anything is fine and that money should only go to hardware.

dc337

Record breaking" - false positive data, and breaking a record against their own data, which is limited and doesn't account for the reality of PC gaming (digital purchasing and the fact that torrents are 99% trojans)haberman13

[QUOTE="haberman13"]Record breaking" - false positive data, and breaking a record against their own data, which is limited and doesn't account for the reality of PC gaming (digital purchasing and the fact that torrents are 99% trojans)dc337

Blops dominated the sales charts on Steam for months. That data is not a part of this "compilation" of misinformation. To suggest a fact based on torrent seeds is something I can't accept.

Like I said, piracy on PC is clearly a problem. But the sweeping implication of 50% piracy rate on blops suggests an epidemic, rather than the reality. That is what I'm arguing with.

Even if they were completed, the amount of auto-downloading using azeurus/mutorrent is insane. On top of that there is the fact that the majority of torrents are actually trojan packed ISOs.

haberman13

dc337 clearly has no idea what he is talking about to suggest that 4 million people are playing pirated blops.haberman13

I cited data from a torrent website that provides reports on all types of piracy. I'm sure it is all a conspiracy though.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]Even if they were completed, the amount of auto-downloading using azeurus/mutorrent is insane. On top of that there is the fact that the majority of torrents are actually trojan packed ISOs.

dc337

dc337 clearly has no idea what he is talking about to suggest that 4 million people are playing pirated blops.haberman13

I cited data from a torrent website that provides reports on all types of piracy. I'm sure it is all a conspiracy though.

1 user trying to download Blops will have to go through 3-4 seeds before finally getting what they are looking for. So, 4 million downloads != 4 million users

[also, torrent clients have a "auto-download" based on regex, so 1 user might have 1+ downloads for the same search going]

Beyond that, those numbers make it look like Blops flopped on PC, because digital purchases are NOT counted in those numbers.

Ergo, that data is bad, and incomplete. If you want to use bad data to bolster your opinion that PC gamers are pirates have at it.

So you see, when you break the data down, the impact is not nearly as dramatic as that flawed logic/data presumes.

Like I said, piracy on PC is clearly a problem. But the sweeping implication of 50% piracy rate on blops suggests an epidemic, rather than the reality. That is what I'm arguing with.haberman13

It's shocking but as I said before that is the reality of the situation. Watch as Crysis 2 will also have a > 50% piracy rate.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]Like I said, piracy on PC is clearly a problem. But the sweeping implication of 50% piracy rate on blops suggests an epidemic, rather than the reality. That is what I'm arguing with.dc337

It's shocking but as I said before that is the reality of the situation. Watch as Crysis 2 will also have a > 50% piracy rate.

You dont actually know how many of those downloads are competed though. You just know how many times the link has been clicked.

How can you not understand yet that we are not arguing that piracy doesnt exist? It does exist and it is a problem, a very big one at that. It just isnt as extreme as you are making it out to be. If I were to make a torrent that was an ISO of Blops with viruses on it, upload it and said its been downloaded 5 million times would you believe it? Iantheone

[QUOTE="haberman13"]Like I said, piracy on PC is clearly a problem. But the sweeping implication of 50% piracy rate on blops suggests an epidemic, rather than the reality. That is what I'm arguing with.dc337

It's shocking but as I said before that is the reality of the situation. Watch as Crysis 2 will also have a > 50% piracy rate.

So why wasn't BC2 pirated like that? Why were PC sales equivalent to console sales? Why is blops constantly popping to the top of the Steam list?

There is too much discrepancy, and ignoring of DD data, for me to accept what you are saying.

Piracy is a problem, but until we factor in the critical missing data, your suggestions are baseless.

People claim Pc piracy is so bad but yet ignore the console pre owned market and their piracy..... The Pre owned market hurts console devs more so then Pc piracy does as a whole because of the fact that you cant count each download as a lost sale. On a pre owned console game you can count it as a lost sale because someone actually paid for it and the store gets all that money not the game maker, which is why in the last year or So alot of console publishers and devs are starting to tie games to accounts and the 2nd hand copies pay $10 to re-enable MP.

So why should we assume that the data on 360 torrents is falsified but not as badly as the pc? Does that torrent website have it out for the pc?

But I can see what you are doing here which is to distract and defend even in the face of overwhelming evidence. That's fine, I suppose this is system wars.

Anyone else is free to look at the Warface blog post for themselves, a post by a pc gamer that is not afraid of the truth.
http://warfaceaps.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/call-of-duty-black-ops-breaks-even-the-illegal-download-record/

So why wasn't BC2 pirated like that? haberman13

Thanks you for proving that you really have no interest in even looking at the data and just want to defend and deflect.

People claim Pc piracy is so bad but yet ignore the console pre owned market and their piracy..... The Pre owned market hurts console devs more so then Pc piracy does as a whole because of the fact that you cant count each download as a lost sale. On a pre owned console game you can count it as a lost sale because someone actually paid for it and the store gets all that money not the game maker, which is why in the last year or So alot of console publishers and devs are starting to tie games to accounts and the 2nd hand copies pay $10 to re-enable MP.

04dcarraher

People don't like being reminded about inconvenient things.

It doesn't matter that it causes the same damage as piracy, it's legal. And so long as it is legal, they will hide behind it as a shield, insisting that it is nothing like piracy. Never mind a 2nd hand purchase results in not a penny going to the people who made the game, like a pirate download.

Explain to me. How do you know how many of those downloads are completed? Iantheone

It doesn't matter how many were completed. What matters is how many are legitimately lost sales? Because plenty of people in SW admitted to downloading the beta just to get a glimpse of the game they intend to purchase, and as far as I know; none of the people admitting to downloading the beta were punished by moderators.

Anyone who says downloads = lost sales are being ridiculous, it's impossible to determine how many of them are legitimately lost sales; or try before you buy.

So why should we assume that the data on 360 torrents is falsified but not as badly as the pc? Does that torrent website have it out for the pc?

But I can see what you are doing here which is to distract and defend even in the face of overwhelming evidence. That's fine, I suppose this is system wars.

Anyone else is free to look at the Warface blog post for themselves, a post by a pc gamer that is not afraid of the truth.
http://warfaceaps.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/call-of-duty-black-ops-breaks-even-the-illegal-download-record/

dc337

No, I'm saying the percentage of piracy would be different, since you KNOW console sales but don't KNOW PC sales because of DD on PC.

The same flaws of using torrent data apply to 360.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

People claim Pc piracy is so bad but yet ignore the console pre owned market and their piracy..... The Pre owned market hurts console devs more so then Pc piracy does as a whole because of the fact that you cant count each download as a lost sale. On a pre owned console game you can count it as a lost sale because someone actually paid for it and the store gets all that money not the game maker, which is why in the last year or So alot of console publishers and devs are starting to tie games to accounts and the 2nd hand copies pay $10 to re-enable MP.

AnnoyedDragon

People don't like being reminded about inconvenient things.

It doesn't matter that it causes the same damage as piracy, it's legal. And so long as it is legal, they will hide behind it as a shield, insisting that it is nothing like piracy. Never mind a 2nd hand purchase results in not a penny going to the people who made the game, like a pirate download.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]So why wasn't BC2 pirated like that? dc337

Thanks you for proving that you really have no interest in even looking at the data and just want to defend and deflect.

You just proved my point that torrent data is irrelevant and leads to false assumptions:

From joystiq.com

Interestingly, 53 percent of BC2 sales went to the Xbox 360 version, followed by 31 percent and 16 percent of sales for the PS3 and PC

Using easy numbers:

53 360 copies

31 PS3 copies

16 PC (retail) copies

Now, lets use the 75% figure bantered about for retail vs DD on PC. (I think its larger)

That means there were actually 64 copies sold on PC when you including DD. In other words "PC BC2 outsold the consoles"

See why i'm arguing with you? Your numbers completely ignore 75% of the PC market, and the realities of torrenting.

I buy used games all the time, and whilst I'd buy more new games if they were cheaper to benefit devs...I do not think it is fair to claim it's = piracy.

Ravensmash

Well for developers there is not much difference between you and a pirate. Neither one of you is paying them.

If it was so damaging to the industry, then publishers would have acted harsher on used games - none of this £10 online pass nonsense. At least with used games it's locked to one user at one time - and that one copy has been paid for. I buy used games all the time, and whilst I'd buy more new games if they were cheaper to benefit devs...I do not think it is fair to claim it's = piracy.

Ravensmash

Because no one who buys a second hand game sells it again?

How the publishers react to it is irrelevant, the fact that it has been legitimized via its legality makes it worse as far as I'm concerned. There are retailers that make a lot of their money through 2nd hand sales, they encourage people to swap their older games for newer ones; to help buff out their second hand section with recent titles.

Someone who enjoys a game from a 2nd hand sale is causing the exact same damage as someone who enjoys it via piracy, the people who made the game see none of the money. And who knows how many hands that second hand game changes through in today's disposable game culture, where they just sell off games they don't play regularly.

Anyone who says otherwise is downplaying as far as I'm concerned. Has probably purchased 2nd hand games, and are trying to rationalize it in a manner that doesn't make them feel guilty. Isn't nice is it? Being accused of hurting the games industry. Now they know how every PC gamer feels, when someone decides to blame and punish them for piracy; when their entire collection is legit.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

People claim Pc piracy is so bad but yet ignore the console pre owned market and their piracy..... The Pre owned market hurts console devs more so then Pc piracy does as a whole because of the fact that you cant count each download as a lost sale. On a pre owned console game you can count it as a lost sale because someone actually paid for it and the store gets all that money not the game maker, which is why in the last year or So alot of console publishers and devs are starting to tie games to accounts and the 2nd hand copies pay $10 to re-enable MP.

Ravensmash

People don't like being reminded about inconvenient things.

It doesn't matter that it causes the same damage as piracy, it's legal. And so long as it is legal, they will hide behind it as a shield, insisting that it is nothing like piracy. Never mind a 2nd hand purchase results in not a penny going to the people who made the game, like a pirate download.