David Jaffe says rentals and used games 'takes away' from sales.

The movie industry lowered the price of DVDs in direct response to the rental market back in the late 90's. Most games are not worth $60. Make them cheaper and stop complaining.limpbizkit818

You can buy, rent, and sell and buy used products in almost every industry. So why is it that the video game industry are QQing about it?

Well I spoke with a community manager of for a dev/publisher about the price of games and he told me that the mindset is if there's initially a lower price for games right off the bat then people will think there's something wrong with it and not buy it. So not only will they get less money per game sold, they will also lose money for the people who didn't buy it because they were being cautious.

They make $12 on every new game copy sold. Mystic-G

they act like paying 60$ evertimeyou wanna play a new game is easy

and then it takes like a year for the game to drop 20-30$

You guys who are telling the rest of us to "shut up and pay full price" have no right to tell us how to spend our money. I buy some new games at $60 a pop, but I'm not going to just buy every game that comes out at full price. Not every game that comes out is even close to that kind of value.

yea making all the small DLC's available for free if you buy it should be something their thinking about

Give me incentive to buy the game new, ala ME2 and its awesome free DLC, and I'll buy it new. Else, I'm renting or buying it used at best.

I don't care for most game companis, and the only reason I don't pirate is because is because I have ethical reservations about it. Seeing as how used games and renting are legal and basic consumer rights, you better believe I'm going to take advantage of them. Every industry has a renting and used market - yet the game industry seems to be surprised that these markets exists for them as well.

Is the poll even necessary? Of course rentals and used games take away potential sales, much like piracy.

Devs need to STFU about this, imo. Renting and buying used is perfectly within the rights of gamers. Devs/publishers need to get over it. It's not like this is a new thing.

DarkLink77

Renting and buying is perfectly within the rights of gamers as much as stopping gamers from doing it is perfectly within the rights of the developers.

Now they have the means to stop it, why shouldn't they?

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Devs need to STFU about this, imo. Renting and buying used is perfectly within the rights of gamers. Devs/publishers need to get over it. It's not like this is a new thing.

Mograine

Renting and buying is perfectly within the rights of gamers as much as stopping gamers from doing it is perfectly within the rights of the developers.

Now they have the means to stop it, why shouldn't they?

The only sure way to get the sales they want, is to make the games better.

That's perfectly fine as well. Doing that though will not ensure more sales for the companies, it just might turn a bunch of people away from buying those games all together.

The only sure way to get the sales they want, is to make the games better.

bigboi500

Or they could just release a demo for their releases earlier / all together, most games do but you get the odd one without a demo for months, in this case I usually miss out straight away unless the trailer makes up for it, then I'll go out on a limb a buy it (which is rare).

make your games with strong online component and infinite gameplay

this is why MMORPGs make a ton of money these days.

That's perfectly fine as well. Doing that though will not ensure more sales for the companies, it just might turn a bunch of people away from buying those games all together.

The only sure way to get the sales they want, is to make the games better.

Bigboi500

I agree, but with the current situation the mentality of developers has switched from making the game like they want to trying to appeal the most people possible to maximize the profits. Customers do no longer matter once they have paid their share to get their hands on the game - from this comes all the "ZOMG PIRACY" and "ZOMG SECOND HAND SALES" whining we've been seeing recently.

Strangely, none seems to understand the latter mentality works worse at reaching its objective than the former, even though the evidence is crystal clear for all to see.

Of course it takes away from sales but what about the money somebody spent to buy the used game your buying or the copy of the game your renting, in one way or another the developers have been paid by someone to own their game.

I wouldn't worry about used games too much, just do what EA's doing. Put a code for multiplayer or extra content in the box.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"] They make $12 on every new game copy sold. IronBass

Yeah, I weep for all of those lost profits. :roll:

Seriously, who gives a flying ****? If a few corporations eat it, I'll still be playing games. Independent game development is alive and well, and gaming is well established as an entertainment medium; it isn't going to crash and burn tomorrow, or dissappear, or anything.

I couldn't care less about how well EA, and Activision, and Ubisoft are doing; screw them, and screw the mindset that says they deserve even a modicum of our sympathy.

Stop releasing piss quality games with no replayability for $60. Stop burning your customers with draconian anti-piracy measures. Stop whining about rentals and used games as if you actually think anyone gives a **** about your quarterly reports.

Adapt, fight for the consumer's money, and give them reasons to make a full purchase, or shut the hell up.

jethrovegas

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

Well, hopefully he hops on board the Digital-Download-Only train.

I mean I don't really get why these devs complain about it when they have the power to change the way the industry does business.

delta3074

This, the ability to resell a game is important to me, even if it is the thing the "industry" would like to stop. Screw that, make me stop with value, not by removing the option. I, too, will stop gaming if DD becomes standard, it's just not worth it to smile through a kick in the nuts.

how is it that people actually posted no? it's obvious that it does effect sales. by how much is debatable, but it does. I think people who voted no just have a chip on their shoulder or something.

This happens in nearly every form of media, sales, and general business. Its something that has to be dealt with in the sense that its not going anywhere, anytime soon.

Because of this. I won't buy David Jaffe games new anymore. I will buy them used for 5 bucks.

Because I believe that the used game market helps new game sales just as much as it hurts them. Of course, the logic behind it requires a bit more thought than "u iznt buyin mah new gamez!!" And I don't expect the majority of posters to be willing/able to think much farther than that.Greyfeld

You need to explain the thought process behind how it helps new game sales. The hamster wheel stopped spinning in my brain trying to comprehend how.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]That's perfectly fine as well. Doing that though will not ensure more sales for the companies, it just might turn a bunch of people away from buying those games all together.

The only sure way to get the sales they want, is to make the games better.

Mograine

I agree, but with the current situation the mentality of developers has switched from making the game like they want to trying to appeal the most people possible to maximize the profits. Customers do no longer matter once they have paid their share to get their hands on the game - from this comes all the "ZOMG PIRACY" and "ZOMG SECOND HAND SALES" whining we've been seeing recently.

Strangely, none seems to understand the latter mentality works worse at reaching its objective than the former, even though the evidence is crystal clear for all to see.

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

Since there is such a large market for used games, that means the devs and publishers are doing something wrong. It's obvious that there are a lot of gamers who feel that the final product of what they are making simply isn't worth what they think it is.

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Birdy09"] What a load of crap... its purely because people want something for cheaper, nothing to do with the quality of the games.Birdy09

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Birdy09"] What a load of crap... its purely because people want something for cheaper, nothing to do with the quality of the games.Birdy09

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]Because I believe that the used game market helps new game sales just as much as it hurts them. Of course, the logic behind it requires a bit more thought than "u iznt buyin mah new gamez!!" And I don't expect the majority of posters to be willing/able to think much farther than that.Mystic-G

You need to explain the thought process behind how it helps new game sales. The hamster wheel stopped spinning in my brain trying to comprehend how.

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Oh, so they can do no wrong, and I'm just supposed to blindly hand over my $60 and love what I get huh?

DarkLink77

A part of that group "who wouldn't have bought it anyway" will go ahead and by a new copy if there's no option to buy it used. Also, rather they wait for a pricedrop than buyinga used copy.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Birdy09"] What a load of crap... its purely because people want something for cheaper, nothing to do with the quality of the games.Birdy09

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]Because I believe that the used game market helps new game sales just as much as it hurts them. Of course, the logic behind it requires a bit more thought than "u iznt buyin mah new gamez!!" And I don't expect the majority of posters to be willing/able to think much farther than that.Mystic-G

You need to explain the thought process behind how it helps new game sales. The hamster wheel stopped spinning in my brain trying to comprehend how.

lol *Kicks hamster*

Well, let's see if I can make this simple...

There is one thing that is being completely left out of the equation in this "down with used games" tirade.

There are a large number of consumers that only buy games at $60 a pop with the assumption that they can turn around and get half their money back in the first couple weeks of release, if they don't like the game, or decide they don't want to keep it after finishing it. If the used gaming market disappears, I believe that these consumers will choose to wait until price drops to buy their games, rather than buying them right off release. And having a chunk of your userbase suddenly decide not to pay full price for your product is nearly as harmful as the used game market itself is to your profits.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]Because I believe that the used game market helps new game sales just as much as it hurts them. Of course, the logic behind it requires a bit more thought than "u iznt buyin mah new gamez!!" And I don't expect the majority of posters to be willing/able to think much farther than that.IronBass

You need to explain the thought process behind how it helps new game sales. The hamster wheel stopped spinning in my brain trying to comprehend how.

IronBass is absolutely right here, and tbh, it's not an exaggerated example at all. I know plenty of people that have done something like that (myself included), and I'm willing to bet it's not an isolated incident. I mean, if you come midway into a series via used games and you really like it, I'd wager you'll buy the rest new.

A part of that group "who wouldn't have bought it anyway" will go ahead and by a new copy if there's no option to buy it used.kontejner44

Also, rather they wait for a pricedrop than buyinga used copy.kontejner44

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] Like anything else you buy yes... who are you to judge? just because you found a legal loop hole and your just justifiying the same negative outcome piracy gives =/kontejner44

A part of that group "who wouldn't have bought it anyway" will go ahead and by a new copy if there's no option to buy it used. Also, rather they wait for a pricedrop than buyinga used copy.

lol *Kicks hamster*

Well, let's see if I can make this simple...

There is one thing that is being completely left out of the equation in this "down with used games" tirade.

There are a large number of consumers that only buy games at $60 a pop with the assumption that they can turn around and get half their money back in the first couple weeks of release, if they don't like the game, or decide they don't want to keep it after finishing it. If the used gaming market disappears, I believe that these consumers will choose to wait until price drops to buy their games, rather than buying them right off release. And having a chunk of your userbase suddenly decide not to pay full price for your product is nearly as harmful as the used game market itself is to your profits.

Greyfeld

Eh, that's merely speculation really. There's no hard statistics proving such.

That doesn't matter, I don't care what's best for me or you. I see it from a rational point of view and that is that what I said results in more money for devs instead of gamestop which is the most reasonable thing

There's demos and lots of coverage of games that you don't need to "rent" or "buy used" if you are "unsure" or whatever the reason. Stop justifying your needs with this crap

kontejner44

The most rational point of view would be to apply the "one dollar, one vote" metric they do in the business world.

I'm willing to bet more people benefit from the used game market than suffer, so therefore its existence is justified.

That doesn't matter, I don't care what's best for me or you. I see it from a rational point of view and that is that what I said results in more money for devs instead of gamestop which is the most reasonable thing

There's demos and lots of coverage of games that you don't need to "rent" or "buy used" if you are "unsure" or whatever the reason. Stop justifying your needs with this crap

kontejner44

First of all, they are not "my needs", since I don't buy used games.

Secondly, buying used games is not something that needs justifying.

It's legal, it's effective, and if somebody wants to buy it, they have all the right to do it.

You say you're looking for what results in more money for the dev, well, I couldn't care less for them.

They are huge companies that don't need anyone of us to care for them.

Eh, that's merely speculation really. There's no hard statistics proving such.Mystic-G

David Jaffe? The geezer who produced GOW? No **** sherlock. When you create an 8 hour game with no replay value, yeah, i guess people will rent instead of buying.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]Eh, that's merely speculation really. There's no hard statistics proving such.IronBass

That's common sense, if you seriously don't see that then you're not open minded

That's common sense, if you seriously don't see that then you're not open mindedkontejner44

What you said doesn't even make sense, the people who buy/trade with those guys could easily find games elsewhere.kontejner44

[QUOTE="kontejner44"]What you said doesn't even make sense, the people who buy/trade with those guys could easily find games elsewhere.IronBass

Jimmy sell it to Joe, who is buying it used either from gamestop or directly from the person. If you remove that option from Jimmy, he won't buy new games anymore and thus stop gaming (very likely, oh yes)

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="kontejner44"]What you said doesn't even make sense, the people who buy/trade with those guys could easily find games elsewhere.kontejner44

Jimmy sell it to Joe, who is buying it used either from gamestop or directly from the person. If you remove that option from Jimmy, he won't buy new games anymore and thus stop gaming (very likely, oh yes)