Dec NPD.. PS3 outsells 360 by 50k units

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

You're just grasping now. I'm well aware of Sony's stance in the industry overall. However, they are a company and as such has aims to profit. Having a division that keeps bleeding money is thus paradoxal. You make it sound all fine and dandy that their division lost 4,7 billion. Using that logic, they might as well drop the price to $1 for all they cared..

Also, I believe a $50 dollar price drop with no or very few top tier games to go, as opposed to a $200 dollar price drop with new exciting releases en masse and a complety revised version, will certainly have less impact. That's simple logic.

Shattered007

Alright, I know I said my last post would be my last post here but I just read that! Dude, that's more money lost then the orginal Xbox had!

How is that successful in any conceivable way? Not only did they lose a massive piece of marketshare from the previous generation, now their gaming division is bleeding money like a stuck pig; adding serious insult to injury.

i'm not inclined to call 360 winning before september being $200 cheaper it's notimpressive especially considering that during these last months PS3 has been wiping the floor with 360 worldwide and NPD and yet the PS3 is STILL MORE EXPENSIVE

drakecool1

Nor am I..which is why I discussed the sales after the PS3 price drop.

I thought we were discussing NPD and the US? We have yet to see official worldwide numbers for PS3 from Sony themselves. I too expect PS3 to outsell 360 worldwide for the year of 2009, by how much, however, remains to be seen as, again, Sony has yet to report their worldwide numbers.

And I already addressed why I don't consider PS3's USA performance after the price drop as "wiping the floor". The sheer marketing, release of top tier games, a complete revision of the PS3 and a price drop, yet Microsoft lay quite dormant and still only lost ground by 150,000 units in the US...

The price difference is what $50? Who in his right mind would not purchase a PS3 this year after a $200 dollar price drop and a batch of impressive games? Not to mention a Blu-Ray player to boot. With that in mind, it's only logical that PS3 sold more after the price drop despite being more expensive (by measly 50 bucks..lol).

Also, Gamespot should completely overhaul their forums, attempting to quote multiple posts or numerous portions of a singleton post is quite a feat in itself. (Which is why I'm properly replying to this portion of your post separately. Jesus.

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]Shattered007

In millions.

US NPD LTD numbers:
Xbox 360: 18.6
PS3: 11.1

Difference = +7.5 Xbox 360

JPN Media Create LTD numbers:
Xbox 360: 1.2
PS3: 4.5

Difference = +3.3 PS3

JPN + US Difference = +4.2 Xbox 360

If there is a difference in PAL regions, I highly doubt the difference is 3.8 million in the 360's favor... :|

shinrabanshou

(Opinion) Sony is outselling the 360 in PAL countries > 360 is outselling the PS3 in PAL countries.

Even if one is true we don't know by how much and how is on top. I see people use VGchatz and say that Sony has a 40K lead in PAL countries then I see a Nintendo's chart that says that the PS3 is killing the 360 by a lager margine and then Micrsoft says they sold 39 million consoles. Now sticking with VGchatz (that has not updated their numbers to reflect Microsofts claim) Microsoft sits at 37.28 million with 21.50 million sold in America, which is more then likley accurate due to NPDs, and 1.24 million in Japan, again more then likely accurate due to Media Crates and 14.54 million sold in PAL.

Now given VGcharts margine for error in for PAL countries and since there's no orginazation that monitors that stuff out there, I can see the 360 actually selling the 16.24 versus the 14.54 that would make up the 39 million consoles that would have had to have been sold for them to announce such a number. Even if that guess (and that's all it is, just like others that assume that PAL=Sony) and VG is absolutly right, Sony still hasn't cut into the 5 million deficit set by Micrsoft in 2006.

microsoft didn't say sold they said shipped big difference

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

i'm not inclined to call 360 winning before september being $200 cheaper it's notimpressive especially considering that during these last months PS3 has been wiping the floor with 360 worldwide and NPD and yet the PS3 is STILL MORE EXPENSIVE

ToScA-

And I already addressed why I don't consider PS3's USA performance after the price drop as "wiping the floor". The sheer marketing, release of top tier games, a complete revision of the PS3 and a price drop,yet Microsoft lay quite dormant and still only lost ground by 150,000 units in the US...

The price difference is what $50? Who in his right mind would not purchase a PS3 this year after a $200 dollar price drop and a batch of impressive games? Not to mention a Blu-Ray player to boot. With that in mind, it's only logical that PS3 sold more after the price drop despite being more expensive (by measly 50 bucks..lol).

Also, Gamespot should completely overhaul their forums, attempting to quote multiple posts or numerous portions of a singleton post is quite a feat in itself. (Which is why I'm properly replying to this portion of your post separately. Jesus.

you're forgetting that at the same time sony lowered their ps3 to $299 microsoft also lowered their 360 so both had a price drop it's just that the ps3 was more attractive in a lower price.

xbox 360 has a larger control in the american market. Any cow thinking otherwise is delusional. The fact is that lemmings stating that ps3 outselling xbox 360 by such a small margin is bad is also silly. Sony playstation 3 had a 70% month increase after the price drop shows that their is tons of demand for the playstation 3. playstation 3 was in terrible shape since its launch and was a huge failure. But to say microsoft is in great position still wrong. The console outsold playstation 3 by 600k last year the same month.

bleeding money is thus paradoxal. a $50 dollar price drop with no or very few top tier games to go, as opposed to a $200 dollar price drop with new exciting releases en masse and a complety revised version, will certainly have less impact. That's simple logic. ToScA-

I warned you guys last month something like this would happen. No\w its time to quote to Futurama robot. CHANGE PLACESEzioTheEagIe

you're forgetting that at the same time sony lowered their ps3 to $299 microsoft also lowered their 360 so both had a price drop it's just that the ps3 was more attractive in a lower price.

drakecool1

[QUOTE="ToScA-"] bleeding money is thus paradoxal. a $50 dollar price drop with no or very few top tier games to go, as opposed to a $200 dollar price drop with new exciting releases en masse and a complety revised version, will certainly have less impact. That's simple logic. stiggy321

Care to elaborate?

[QUOTE="ToScA-"] bleeding money is thus paradoxal. a $50 dollar price drop with no or very few top tier games to go, as opposed to a $200 dollar price drop with new exciting releases en masse and a complety revised version, will certainly have less impact. That's simple logic. stiggy321

Wasn't that supposed to happen back in 2007? :lol:

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]Shattered007

In millions.

US NPD LTD numbers:
Xbox 360: 18.6
PS3: 11.1

Difference = +7.5 Xbox 360

JPN Media Create LTD numbers:
Xbox 360: 1.2
PS3: 4.5

Difference = +3.3 PS3

JPN + US Difference = +4.2 Xbox 360

If there is a difference in PAL regions, I highly doubt the difference is 3.8 million in the 360's favor... :|

shinrabanshou

(Opinion) Sony is outselling the 360 in PAL countries > 360 is outselling the PS3 in PAL countries.

Even if one is true we don't know by how much and how is on top. I see people use VGchatz and say that Sony has a 40K lead in PAL countries then I see a Nintendo's chart that says that the PS3 is killing the 360 by a lager margine and then Micrsoft says they sold 39 million consoles. Now sticking with VGchatz (that has not updated their numbers to reflect Microsofts claim) Microsoft sits at 37.28 million with 21.50 million sold in America, which is more then likley accurate due to NPDs, and 1.24 million in Japan, again more then likely accurate due to Media Crates and 14.54 million sold in PAL.

Now given VGcharts margine for error in for PAL countries and since there's no orginazation that monitors that stuff out there, I can see the 360 actually selling the 16.24 versus the 14.54 that would make up the 39 million consoles that would have had to have been sold for them to announce such a number. Even if that guess (and that's all it is, just like others that assume that PAL=Sony) and VG is absolutly right, Sony still hasn't cut into the 5 million deficit set by Micrsoft in 2006.

39 million "around the world" is definitely plausible. But I doubt that the margin over the number of PS3s "around the world" is significantly more than 5 million.

[QUOTE="Shattered007"][QUOTE="ToScA-"]

You're just grasping now. I'm well aware of Sony's stance in the industry overall. However, they are a company and as such has aims to profit. Having a division that keeps bleeding money is thus paradoxal. You make it sound all fine and dandy that their division lost 4,7 billion. Using that logic, they might as well drop the price to $1 for all they cared..

Also, I believe a $50 dollar price drop with no or very few top tier games to go, as opposed to a $200 dollar price drop with new exciting releases en masse and a complety revised version, will certainly have less impact. That's simple logic.

ToScA-

Alright, I know I said my last post would be my last post here but I just read that! Dude, that's more money lost then the orginal Xbox had!

How is that successful in any conceivable way? Not only did they lose a massive piece of marketshare from the previous generation, now their gaming division is bleeding money like a stuck pig; adding serious insult to injury.

However if you're looking at the latest two gens then coupled with the 1 billion+ losses on the 360 earlier in the gen they're about equal. Then, factoring in the 3 billion or so in profit from PS2 eaten away by the PS3, Sony's gaming division is sitting on a net loss of about 2 billion compared to Microsoft's gaming division lifetime net loss of 4 billion.

The success of the 360 this gen is more about marketshare than profit.

Nintendo is the only company that's been consistently profitable, since they don't follow a loss-leader business model.

microsoft didn't say sold they said shipped big difference

drakecool1

False.

They said sold; which means sold to retailers (i.e shipped). There's essentially no difference. Sony and Nintendo, both, also report shipped (sold to retailers) numbers.

I take it you mean sold to customers. Then yes, there is a difference between sold to retailers and sold to consumers. Those are numbers that only NPD, Mediacreate and various similar outfits in different regions of Europe track.

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

[QUOTE="EndorphinMaster"]

"destroying it" by 50k? :lol:

ToScA-

I don't just mean this month I mean month after month the only month 360 took was november

what happened I thought USA was ur country ? the bottom line is 360 is becoming irrevelant now that the slim is out pretty soon no one will talk about it.

PS3 only started outselling 360 in US in September and followed that up with outselling it in October as well.

Coupled with December..that's 3 months, out of 12, that's hardly "destroying" anything :|

Especially with 360 outselling PS3 with over 400,000 units in the US for the entire year...the destruction is indeed earth shattering.

Firstly, those numbers are US only according to NPD. I will not be surprised find out PS3 surpassing 360 sales by huge margin in 2009. Also, IMO Price drop won't make much difference. 360 is $100 cheaper (same as wii) and still ended up in last place in last 3 months.

Firstly, those numbers are US only according to NPD.

fun-da-mental

I know. He said that PS3 was "destroying" 360 in the US...which is what instigated this debate and the sole reason as to why I've been discussing NPD numbers and NPD numbers alone.

I will not be surprised find out PS3 surpassing 360 sales by huge margin in 2009.

fun-da-mental

I concur. Sony just have to report their numbers and make it official. I for one will be shocked if PS3 doesn't outsell 360 worldwide, highly unlikely looking at Japanese sales and European sales numbers from January to September (posted earlier in this thread).

Also, IMO Price drop won't make much difference. 360 is $100 cheaper (same as wii) and still ended up in last place in last 3 months.

fun-da-mental

It's not simply the price drop. It's also game releases; 360 was quite lackluster last year compared to PS3.

360's line-up for 2010 looks a lot better than last year's line-up and a price drop would push things farther. Natal will probably have bit of an impact as well, although I believe it will come down to the games in the end.

Also, where are you getting $100 cheaper from? The Xbox 360 was price dropped from $399 down to $299, which is the same price point that Sony reached with PS3 Slim. I think the 360 (elite) is at about $249 as of now?

Yes, PS3 outsold the 360 in the US despite being more expensive; and I gave reasonable explanations as to why that might have happened, above. Or to simplify:

PS3 Slim -

*An overhauled new model of the PS3

*A $200 price drop

*More aggressive marketing

*Numerous top-tier games over the year (as cows have gladly been boasting about)

*A Blu-Ray player

*All for only $50 than the main competitor

Is it really that hard to believe that the PS3 outsold 360 in the US (September-December) with these facts in hand despite being $50 more expensive?

50 dollars; games retail at higher price points than that for crying out loud.

These are also the reasons as to why I don't find 150,000 more units sold in the US over 360 since the price drop all too impressive. Certainly not "destroying the 360". It's a small dent (in the US) when looking at numerous singleton(!) months where 360 has been sold in more than 150,000 units over PS3 in the US alone.

One could argue that the US is currently "Xbox land", though. Thus PS3 will have a hard time over there despite Sony's efforts; just as Xbox 360 fails to impress in Japan.

Wasn't that supposed to happen back in 2007? :lol: EndorphinMaster

One could argue that the US is currently "Xbox land", though. Thus PS3 will have a hard time over there despite Sony's efforts; just as Xbox 360 fails to impress in Japan.

ToScA-

The US has been XBOX land and "luckily" for MS it's the largest gaming region on the planet. It's the region where the Microsoft has basically made its marketshare inroads to surpass Sony and it's where most of the 360's lead in software sales presumably are generated. That's why a shift in momentum seems significant. Just like if the 360 outsold the PS3 in Japan by just ten units it would seem pretty significant.

2009 MS seemed to just be coasting with a (relatively) lacklustre line-up. I imagine they'll become more aggressive now, or at least more proactive.

[QUOTE="EndorphinMaster"] Wasn't that supposed to happen back in 2007? :lol: stiggy321

Yes it is.

I don't know. And to elaborate: Paradoxal isn't a word. And, "$50 dollar price drop with no top tier games to go, as opposed to a $200 dollar price drop with new exciting releases en masse and a complety revised version, will certainly have less impact. That's simple logic" doesn't make any sense. I don't know of a console that has, is having, or is going to have these theoretical scenarios. Also saying "$50 dollar" is repetitious. stiggy321

Paradoxal is a word.

And a grammatical mistake in a lengthly post after having slept only 5 hours the other night? Sue me:|

You have yet to explain why these scenarios don't make sense whilst I have explained why they may make perfect sense. I'm not even sure what "scenarios" you speak of either. The 360 is $50 (ha!) cheaper and is being outsold by the $50 more expensive PS3. That scenario is here and now. When simple logic and reasoning can justify why this is the case, there doesn't have to be a historical event to relate things to.

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

One could argue that the US is currently "Xbox land", though. Thus PS3 will have a hard time over there despite Sony's efforts; just as Xbox 360 fails to impress in Japan.

shinrabanshou

The US has been XBOX land and "luckily" for MS it's the largest gaming region on the planet. It's the region where the Microsoft has basically made its marketshare inroads to surpass Sony and it's where most of the 360's lead in software sales presumably are generated. That's why a shift in momentum seems significant. Just like if the 360 outsold the PS3 in Japan by just ten units it would seem pretty significant.

2009 MS seemed to just be coasting with a (relatively) lacklustre line-up. I imagine they'll become more aggressive now, or at least more proactive.

I wholly agree.

Also, where are you getting $100 cheaper from? The Xbox 360 was price dropped from $399 down to $299, which is the same price point that Sony reached with PS3 Slim. I think the 360 (elite) is at about $249 as of now?

ToScA-

Ok, I meant Xbox 360 Arcade version which is priced at $199 (same as wii).

Besides marketing, blue ray player, exclusive games and price drop, I would add two more selling points:

1) Build in wireless

2) Free online

But I agree that PS3 sales are not as impressive as it should've been. Considering the overall features with $299 price, PS3 should be selling a LOT more at this point.

[QUOTE="fun-da-mental"]

I know. He said that PS3 was "destroying" 360 in the US...which is what instigated this debate and the sole reason as to why I've been discussing NPD numbers and NPD numbers alone.

[QUOTE="fun-da-mental"]I will not be surprised find out PS3 surpassing 360 sales by huge margin in 2009.

ToScA-

I concur. Sony just have to report their numbers and make it official. I for one will be shocked if PS3 doesn't outsell 360 worldwide, highly unlikely looking at Japanese sales and European sales numbers from January to September (posted earlier in this thread).

Also, IMO Price drop won't make much difference. 360 is $100 cheaper (same as wii) and still ended up in last place in last 3 months.

fun-da-mental

It's not simply the price drop. It's also game releases; 360 was quite lackluster last year compared to PS3.

360's line-up for 2010 looks a lot better than last year's line-up and a price drop would push things farther. Natal will probably have bit of an impact as well, although I believe it will come down to the games in the end.

Also, where are you getting $100 cheaper from? The Xbox 360 was price dropped from $399 down to $299, which is the same price point that Sony reached with PS3 Slim. I think the 360 (elite) is at about $249 as of now?

Yes, PS3 outsold the 360 in the US despite being more expensive; and I gave reasonable explanations as to why that might have happened, above. Or to simplify:

PS3 Slim -

*An overhauled new model of the PS3

*A $200 price drop

*More aggressive marketing

*Numerous top-tier games over the year (as cows have gladly been boasting about)

*A Blu-Ray player

*All for only $50 than the main competitor

Is it really that hard to believe that the PS3 outsold 360 in the US (September-December) with these facts in hand despite being $50 more expensive?

50 dollars; games retail at higher price points than that for crying out loud.

These are also the reasons as to why I don't find 150,000 more units sold in the US over 360 since the price drop all too impressive. Certainly not "destroying the 360". It's a small dent (in the US) when looking at numerous singleton(!) months where 360 has been sold in more than 150,000 units over PS3 in the US alone.

One could argue that the US is currently "Xbox land", though. Thus PS3 will have a hard time over there despite Sony's efforts; just as Xbox 360 fails to impress in Japan.

i guess 360 is losing their land it don't look like xbox land anymore.

i guess 360 is losing their land it don't look like xbox land anymore.

drakecool1

Actually, it was never XBox land. Every land is Wii land and has been since its launch.

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

i guess 360 is losing their land it don't look like xbox land anymore.

Actually, it was never XBox land. Every land is Wii land and has been since its launch.

Why the heck is there almost never any PS3 games in the software list?metswonin69

Just a thought.

the sad thing is that the x360 is till miles ahead in the biggest market in world US, so even if the PS3 matched the x360 userbase coz of higher JPN and EU sales, it won't be able to dominate completely.2mrw

The EU is actually a bigger market than the US. :o

[QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="nhh18"]this is wrong. Attach rate is about the same as xbox 360.nhh18

It id a common misconception that Wii Sports is included in attach rates. Are you sure it was included here as well?

Ps2's Decembers:

2001: 1,940,000
2002: 2,700,000
2003: 1,930,000
2004: 990,000
2005: 1,500,000
2006: 1,400,000
2007: 1,100,000
2008: 410,000

Wii's Decembers:

2006: 604,000
2007: 1,350,000
2008: 2,150,000
2009: 3,810,000

The Wii trumped the ps2's sales record. :shock:italygamer

By over one million units! :shock:

[QUOTE="ToScA-"][QUOTE="chicagodon"]NDP are the NATIONAL number meaning the U.S. we all know the ps3 outsells the box everywhere outside the U.S. so this is significant. The US is what keeps the box afloat. if the ps3 continues to dominate the box in pal and asia and ties the box in the states it will be game over quicker than you think.italygamer

Where are the European numbaz!!? :o

Yes, but the United Kingdom does not speak for the rest of the European Union.

[QUOTE="nhh18"][QUOTE="opex07"]The last time I saw attach rates released the 360 was 8 something and the PS3 was only 4 something quite the difference, do you have anything showing otherwise.Hexagon_777

It id a common misconception that Wii Sports is included in attach rates. Are you sure it was included here as well?

I still think it's incredible that Europe has a bigger market for Sony than the US, yet the support Europe is given by them is abysmal.Theguy56

Indeed. I hope something is done about that soon.

[QUOTE="Theguy56"]I still think it's incredible that Europe has a bigger market for Sony than the US, yet the support Europe is given by them is abysmal.Hexagon_777

Indeed. I hope something is done about that soon.

I think that it's quite possible that the PS3 will emerge as the SNES of the PS3/360 war, and the 360 as the Genesis. Genesis launched first and thus got a big head start, but the SNES had superior tech inside of it and gave consumers more bang for their buck. Eventually the new exclusives for the SNES began looking much more attractive to gamers, and Genesis started releasing pricey add-ons to make it more competitive, but ultimately it was the SNES that won out in the end. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a photo-finish by the end, but at the rate PS3's userbase is growing, I think it will eventually catch up to and pass the 360.

why is this sticky'd is this really important to people

why is this sticky'd is this really important to peoplesuz437

Nearly 600 posts accumulating up to 30 pages. What do you think?

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"]Unfortunately this thread is boring because there is no ownwage like last month, Sony sold 50K more units, there is no swing in momentum well not enough o say there is. If the PS3 outsells the 360 continuously this year then yes there is otherwise, 360 is still doing better in US. And anyways its not like the PS3 can ever catch up, SONY made the biggest impact moves (PRICE CUT, SLIM, GREAT LINEUP) and that only decreased the gap by what 1 million at best. Id say they wont be able to do that again. But hey i guess you never know.drakecool1

youre forgetting 360 had a price cut as well and halo odst + gta episodes of liberty city + forza 3 + left 4 dead 2 I would call that an amazing lineup

stop crying excuses take your defeat like a man

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"]Unfortunately this thread is boring because there is no ownwage like last month, Sony sold 50K more units, there is no swing in momentum well not enough o say there is. If the PS3 outsells the 360 continuously this year then yes there is otherwise, 360 is still doing better in US. And anyways its not like the PS3 can ever catch up, SONY made the biggest impact moves (PRICE CUT, SLIM, GREAT LINEUP) and that only decreased the gap by what 1 million at best. Id say they wont be able to do that again. But hey i guess you never know.nhh18

youre forgetting 360 had a price cut as well and halo odst + gta episodes of liberty city + forza 3 + left 4 dead 2 I would call that an amazing lineup

stop crying excuses take your defeat like a man

No offence but that's a mediocore line up. GTA spinoff DLC on a disk is not a killer app. Neither is Forza. Forza is actually selling fine though. ODST was just a side dish Halo, it wasn't expected to sell like 3. I think anyone who though it would do more than half of what 3 did was crazy. L4D was never going to shift systems either. The 360 has exhausted its system shifting ability. The games people think as system sellers are selling to the same 360 fan, it hasn't expanded its audience at all. The 360 is flat.

I think that it's quite possible that the PS3 will emerge as the SNES of the PS3/360 war, and the 360 as the Genesis. Genesis launched first and thus got a big head start, but the SNES had superior tech inside of it and gave consumers more bang for their buck. Eventually the new exclusives for the SNES began looking much more attractive to gamers, and Genesis started releasing pricey add-ons to make it more competitive, but ultimately it was the SNES that won out in the end. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a photo-finish by the end, but at the rate PS3's userbase is growing, I think it will eventually catch up to and pass the 360.

Timstuff

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"]Unfortunately this thread is boring because there is no ownwage like last month, Sony sold 50K more units, there is no swing in momentum well not enough o say there is. If the PS3 outsells the 360 continuously this year then yes there is otherwise, 360 is still doing better in US. And anyways its not like the PS3 can ever catch up, SONY made the biggest impact moves (PRICE CUT, SLIM, GREAT LINEUP) and that only decreased the gap by what 1 million at best. Id say they wont be able to do that again. But hey i guess you never know.nhh18

youre forgetting 360 had a price cut as well and halo odst + gta episodes of liberty city + forza 3 + left 4 dead 2 I would call that an amazing lineup

stop crying excuses take your defeat like a man

just because it sold well doesn't mean that it's not a great lineup I see it as 360 losing it's apeal in games if I had a 360 those would be games i'd buy.

again no excuses PS3 won 360- lost period.

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

youre forgetting 360 had a price cut as well and halo odst + gta episodes of liberty city + forza 3 + left 4 dead 2 I would call that an amazing lineup

stop crying excuses take your defeat like a man

drakecool1

just because it sold well doesn't mean that it's not a great lineup I see it as 360 losing it's apeal in games if I had a 360 those would be games i'd buy.

again no excuses PS3 won 360- lost period.

Its a line up of quality games no doubt. Its just that it simply has no appeal to anyone who essentially isn't already into the whole, 18-35 year old demographic. That's why the 360 was flat YOY, it hasn't lost appeal (the sales were flat) it just didn't do anything to gain appeal. Interst isn't being lost in the 360 since its still selling games better than ever, its simply not attracting new people to buy the system. The PS3 price cut helped it do that even if it didn't have the games.

You're correct about everything except the superior tech. Genesis had more power than SNES, I thought this was a known fact.Parasomniac

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

youre forgetting 360 had a price cut as well and halo odst + gta episodes of liberty city + forza 3 + left 4 dead 2 I would call that an amazing lineup

stop crying excuses take your defeat like a man

ActicEdge

No offence but that's a mediocore line up. GTA spinoff DLC on a disk is not a killer app. Neither is Forza. Forza is actually selling fine though. ODST was just a side dish Halo, it wasn't expected to sell like 3. I think anyone who though it would do more than half of what 3 did was crazy. L4D was never going to shift systems either. The 360 has exhausted its system shifting ability. The games people think as system sellers are selling to the same 360 fan, it hasn't expanded its audience at all. The 360 is flat.

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

[QUOTE="chicagodon"]

NDP are the NATIONAL number meaning the U.S. we all know the ps3 outsells the box everywhere outside the U.S. so this is significant. The US is what keeps the box afloat. if the ps3 continues to dominate the box in pal and asia and ties the box in the states it will be game over quicker than you think.

nhh18

We do?

Where are the European numbaz!!? :o

call me crazy but from last months NPD i thought 360 would beat PS3. I think this is the first time sony beat 360 this month. They must be happy.

edit: Also why do we care about NPD still? They dont count numbers from alot of places if im not mistaken.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="nhh18"]That is an amazing line up. GTA episodes, and forza 3 bombed and sold poorly. Halo ODST, and left 4 dead 2 sold extremely well (but even halo odst didn't reach expectations. It sodl 1/4 what halo 3 sold).

nhh18

No offence but that's a mediocore line up. GTA spinoff DLC on a disk is not a killer app. Neither is Forza. Forza is actually selling fine though. ODST was just a side dish Halo, it wasn't expected to sell like 3. I think anyone who though it would do more than half of what 3 did was crazy. L4D was never going to shift systems either. The 360 has exhausted its system shifting ability. The games people think as system sellers are selling to the same 360 fan, it hasn't expanded its audience at all. The 360 is flat.

GTA4 content sold rather lukewarm for sure. Forza is doing fine though. Its slowly growing, its not huge but its not a failure, not yet imo. I mean, realitically, was Forza really going to match Halo and the other super hyped multiplats? I don't really think so to be honest. Like I said, the 360 is flat, MS has virtuall run out of games to shift hardware, we'll see what Halo does but really, I think NATAL is there best chance and while I think it will be successful, I doubt it will be THAT successful. Its the reverse situation as the Wii where that system can't generate 18-35 year old male hype. But the difference is, for the Wii, its winning, it still has a chance. The 360, well its trying to emmulate something that has only really done correct twice except they don't have the most legendary game characters and talent behind it. I don't know. As of now it is my opinion that if NATAL does not catch on, the PS3 is going to pass the 360 and it could be as early as the end of 2010, to mid 2011.

[QUOTE="Parasomniac"]You're correct about everything except the superior tech. Genesis had more power than SNES, I thought this was a known fact.Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

microsoft didn't say sold they said shipped big difference

ToScA-

False.

They said sold; which means sold to retailers (i.e shipped). There's essentially no difference. Sony and Nintendo, both, also report shipped (sold to retailers) numbers.

I take it you mean sold to customers. Then yes, there is a difference between sold to retailers and sold to consumers. Those are numbers that only NPD, Mediacreate and various similar outfits in different regions of Europe track.

Did you find something to disprove the links presented in this thread or something? If not, why do you continue to say shipped = sold?

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

microsoft didn't say sold they said shipped big difference

ownage_denied

False.

They said sold; which means sold to retailers (i.e shipped). There's essentially no difference. Sony and Nintendo, both, also report shipped (sold to retailers) numbers.

I take it you mean sold to customers. Then yes, there is a difference between sold to retailers and sold to consumers. Those are numbers that only NPD, Mediacreate and various similar outfits in different regions of Europe track.

Did you find something to disprove the links presented in this thread or something? If not, why do you continue to say shipped = sold?

Because shipped is the equivalent to sold to retailers; so there's nothing wrong with saying "sold" as the companies have been doing for the past two generations despite their interpretation of sold meaning sold to retailers and us "earthlings" perceiving that as sold to us consumers.

Also, the link I presented in there cover only the European, or rather, PAL markets. The statement from the EMEA VP is inconsistent with Microsoft's respective reporting of sales elsewhere. As suggested by the NPD reports as opposed to Microsoft's reports on how well they fared in the US in 2009. The numbers simply don't add up, Microsoft's own numbers are considerably higher.

NPD reports sold numbers to consumers while Microsoft report sold to retailers which explains why Microsoft's reported US numbers are higher than those of NPD. This means that either the Microsoft EMEA VP was out of the loop, lying or they simply only report sold to consumers numbers solely in Europe. I reckon the latter is the answer.

Refer to my last post in this more recent thread as to why that is the case.

[QUOTE="ownage_denied"]

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

False.

They said sold; which means sold to retailers (i.e shipped). There's essentially no difference. Sony and Nintendo, both, also report shipped (sold to retailers) numbers.

I take it you mean sold to customers. Then yes, there is a difference between sold to retailers and sold to consumers. Those are numbers that only NPD, Mediacreate and various similar outfits in different regions of Europe track.

ToScA-

Did you find something to disprove the links presented in this thread or something? If not, why do you continue to say shipped = sold?

Because shipped is the equivalent to sold to retailers; so there's nothing wrong with saying "sold" as the companies have been doing for the past two generations despite their interpretation of sold meaning sold to retailers and us "earthlings" perceiving that as sold to us consumers.

Also, the link I presented in there cover only the European, or rather, PAL markets. The statement from the EMEA VP is inconsistent with Microsoft's respective reporting of sales elsewhere. As suggested by the NPD reports as opposed to Microsoft's reports on how well they fared in the US in 2009. The numbers simply don't add up, Microsoft's own numbers are considerably higher.

NPD reports sold numbers to consumers while Microsoft report sold to retailers which explains why Microsoft's reported US numbers are higher than those of NPD. This means that either the Microsoft EMEA VP was out of the loop, lying or they simply only report sold to consumers numbers solely in Europe. I reckon the latter is the answer.

Refer to my last post in this more recent thread as to why that is the case.

Just because you think it's "fishy" doesn't mean you can just ignore what they said, especially without any proof to support your claim. Is it right to assume that you haven't found anything to disprove what I asked about in my first response to you?