Dec NPD.. PS3 outsells 360 by 50k units

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

[QUOTE="ownage_denied"]

Did you find something to disprove the links presented in this thread or something? If not, why do you continue to say shipped = sold?

ownage_denied

Because shipped is the equivalent to sold to retailers; so there's nothing wrong with saying "sold" as the companies have been doing for the past two generations despite their interpretation of sold meaning sold to retailers and us "earthlings" perceiving that as sold to us consumers.

Also, the link I presented in there cover only the European, or rather, PAL markets. The statement from the EMEA VP is inconsistent with Microsoft's respective reporting of sales elsewhere. As suggested by the NPD reports as opposed to Microsoft's reports on how well they fared in the US in 2009. The numbers simply don't add up, Microsoft's own numbers are considerably higher.

NPD reports sold numbers to consumers while Microsoft report sold to retailers which explains why Microsoft's reported US numbers are higher than those of NPD. This means that either the Microsoft EMEA VP was out of the loop, lying or they simply only report sold to consumers numbers solely in Europe. I reckon the latter is the answer.

Refer to my last post in this more recent thread as to why that is the case.

Just because you think it's "fishy" doesn't mean you can just ignore what they said, especially without any proof to support your claim. Is it right to assume that you haven't found anything to disprove what I asked about in my first response to you?

Stumbled across something that would explain the "fishyness".

http://rightnreal.com/microsoft-clarifies-xbox-360-figures-in-response-to-npds/

"In 2009, Xbox 360 console sales topped 10 million units globally, with more than 1.3 million sold in the U.S. in December, contributing to a worldwideXbox 360 install base of 39 million," read the statement.

"Previously we had unintentionally indicated Xbox 360 sold 10 million units in the U.S., when in fact this is a global number. Apologies for any confusion this may have caused".

Wii sold more than PS3 and 360 combined. Wicked.ToScA-

I'm not ignoring his statement, I'm attempting to interpret it using contradicting numbers as a basis. He was never specific enough as to in which regions their numbers were derived from. However, I find it perfectly reasonable to assume that he speaks of "sold to consumers" numbers in PAL regions exclusively being that he represents a faction of Microsoft that covers PAL regions exclusively. You can perfectly assume anything seeing as I'm merely speculating without concrete proof. Wish he'd been more specific though.ToScA-

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

microsoft didn't say sold they said shipped big difference

ToScA-

False.

They said sold; which means sold to retailers (i.e shipped). There's essentially no difference. Sony and Nintendo, both, also report shipped (sold to retailers) numbers.

I take it you mean sold to customers. Then yes, there is a difference between sold to retailers and sold to consumers. Those are numbers that only NPD, Mediacreate and various similar outfits in different regions of Europe track.

If you're speculating without concrete proof why would you respond that way in the post above? Speculation is fine and all but you seem to respond like it's fact when we both know that the Sony rep said they report "sell through" numbers which is sold to consumers.

Stumbled across something that would explain the "fishyness".

http://rightnreal.com/microsoft-clarifies-xbox-360-figures-in-response-to-npds/

"In 2009, Xbox 360 console sales topped 10 million units globally, with more than 1.3 million sold in the U.S. in December, contributing to a worldwideXbox 360 install base of 39 million," read the statement.

"Previously we had unintentionally indicated Xbox 360 sold 10 million units in the U.S., when in fact this is a global number. Apologies for any confusion this may have caused".

ToScA-

I don't see how because you were talking about Sony being "fishy." That's an article about the Xbox 360 :? .

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]Wii sold more than PS3 and 360 combined. Wicked.cainetao11

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

Stumbled across something that would explain the "fishyness".

http://rightnreal.com/microsoft-clarifies-xbox-360-figures-in-response-to-npds/

"In 2009, Xbox 360 console sales topped 10 million units globally, with more than 1.3 million sold in the U.S. in December, contributing to a worldwideXbox 360 install base of 39 million," read the statement.

"Previously we had unintentionally indicated Xbox 360 sold 10 million units in the U.S., when in fact this is a global number. Apologies for any confusion this may have caused".

ownage_denied

I don't see how because you were talking about Sony being "fishy." That's an article about the Xbox 360 :? .

[QUOTE="smartcriminal"][QUOTE="cainetao11"]Anybody remember in September, cows said the Wii's time is over and PS3 would be top seller at the holidays? A lot of manure........ActicEdge

Well, its confirmed you were one of the delusional ones spouting this lol.

No? I was talking about Microsoft and the 360's numbers being fishy (which is what the thread I linked you to is about). Sony haven't reported any official numbers in quite some time, at least not to my knowledge :|

ToScA-

The quote is below. I might be reading it wrong but it seems like you're talking about Sony being fishy.

Hm. Reading the above link, though, the report is about Sony responding to Microsoft after beingcriticised by them for using sold to retailer numbers as opposed to sold to consumers.Suggesting that the retailers are not the consumers in this case, rather that the end consumers (that the retailer sells to) are.

Sony's response:

"We calculate our install base by 'sell through' and have done for the last four years I believe", we asked for a little additional clarification...

"We cIassify 'sell through' as the number of units consumers have actually purchased from retail. 'Sell in' is the number of units we've sold to retail."

This is really weird though, as I recallonly a couple of years agothat Sony, in a report, described having changed the way they calculate sales fromsent to factorytosold to retail. Yet the SCEE spokesperson talks about Sony having used sold to consumers for thelast four years.

This is fishy...to say the least.

ToScA-

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

microsoft didn't say sold they said shipped big difference

ownage_denied

False.

They said sold; which means sold to retailers (i.e shipped). There's essentially no difference. Sony and Nintendo, both, also report shipped (sold to retailers) numbers.

I take it you mean sold to customers. Then yes, there is a difference between sold to retailers and sold to consumers. Those are numbers that only NPD, Mediacreate and various similar outfits in different regions of Europe track.

If you're speculating without concrete proof why would you respond that way in the post above? Speculation is fine and all but you seem to respond like it's fact when we both know that the Sony rep said they report "sell through" numbers which is sold to consumers.

Because I've always been under the impression that all the companies use "shipped" (or sell-in, or sold to retailers) numbers, as suggested by articles and news reports I've read over the years; thus that is factual to me.

What I'm speculating on is why SCEE and EMEA both contradict those facts with their statements.

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

No? I was talking about Microsoft and the 360's numbers being fishy (which is what the thread I linked you to is about). Sony haven't reported any official numbers in quite some time, at least not to my knowledge :|

ownage_denied

The quote is below. I might be reading it wrong but it seems like you're talking about Sony being fishy.

Hm. Reading the above link, though, the report is about Sony responding to Microsoft after beingcriticised by them for using sold to retailer numbers as opposed to sold to consumers.Suggesting that the retailers are not the consumers in this case, rather that the end consumers (that the retailer sells to) are.

Sony's response:

"We calculate our install base by 'sell through' and have done for the last four years I believe", we asked for a little additional clarification...

"We cIassify 'sell through' as the number of units consumers have actually purchased from retail. 'Sell in' is the number of units we've sold to retail."

This is really weird though, as I recallonly a couple of years agothat Sony, in a report, described having changed the way they calculate sales fromsent to factorytosold to retail. Yet the SCEE spokesperson talks about Sony having used sold to consumers for thelast four years.

This is fishy...to say the least.

ToScA-

And in my own link, I explained why "recorded sales" mean sales to retailers.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2008/02/console-post-of-week.html

""That seems to clearly indicate that Sony "records" sales when retailers buy PS3s for stock, not when a consumer buys a unit. And I should have caught that, because the phrase "recorded sales," in retrospect, is perfectly obvious.""

``We haven't made any conclusion whether we have to give it up,'' Hirai said, referring to this fiscal year's 11 million shipment target. ``It depends on how aggressively dealers buy our PS3 inventory" - Kaz Hirai

[QUOTE="ownage_denied"]

The quote is below. I might be reading it wrong but it seems like you're talking about Sony being fishy.

[QUOTE="ToScA-"]

Hm. Reading the above link, though, the report is about Sony responding to Microsoft after beingcriticised by them for using sold to retailer numbers as opposed to sold to consumers.Suggesting that the retailers are not the consumers in this case, rather that the end consumers (that the retailer sells to) are.

Sony's response:

"We calculate our install base by 'sell through' and have done for the last four years I believe", we asked for a little additional clarification...

"We cIassify 'sell through' as the number of units consumers have actually purchased from retail. 'Sell in' is the number of units we've sold to retail."

This is really weird though, as I recallonly a couple of years agothat Sony, in a report, described having changed the way they calculate sales fromsent to factorytosold to retail. Yet the SCEE spokesperson talks about Sony having used sold to consumers for thelast four years.

This is fishy...to say the least.

ToScA-

And in my own link, I explained why "recorded sales" mean sales to retailers.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2008/02/console-post-of-week.html

""That seems to clearly indicate that Sony "records" sales when retailers buy PS3s for stock, not when a consumer buys a unit. And I should have caught that, because the phrase "recorded sales," in retrospect, is perfectly obvious.""

``We haven't made any conclusion whether we have to give it up,'' Hirai said, referring to this fiscal year's 11 million shipment target. ``It depends on how aggressively dealers buy our PS3 inventory" - Kaz Hirai

There seems to be a lot of contradictions between Sony reps on what numbers they report. I'm not sure what to think.

There seems to be a lot of contradictions between Sony reps on what numbers they report. I'm not sure what to think.

ownage_denied

Karakker also clarifies Sony's stance on "shipped" numbers versus "sold" numbers. "To Sony, shipped has always meant 'sold and shipped to retailers,'" Karakker notes. "Microsoft views 'sold' as what has been sold to retailers but could be sitting on pallets in warehouses or stacked on store shelves. 'Sold' to Sony has always meant what the consumer has actually purchased."

"I think many people have incorrectly viewed our competitor's 'sold' figure to believe it was actually sold to consumers, which it was not," Karakker concludes.

And he's yet another Sony rep.

I'd love him to explain that to Kaz Hirai though, just to see what happens :P

[QUOTE="Parasomniac"]You're correct about everything except the superior tech. Genesis had more power than SNES, I thought this was a known fact.Teufelhuhn

It's also so motherf'ing ironic though.....

That sound chip was design by....one guy named Ken Kutaragi!!!! Yes, that "We'll discipline children" Ken Kutaragi!!!!! Sony helped out on the SNES, this was the honeymoon period between Nintendo and Sony, where they were supposed to develop a CD add-on for the SNES called....the playstation! We all know how THAT ended do we?

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="Parasomniac"]You're correct about everything except the superior tech. Genesis had more power than SNES, I thought this was a known fact.Parasomniac

Umm....no.....

Alladin on the SNES and Genesis was two totally different game, mostly due to the fact Genesis can not keep up hardware wise with the SNES.

The big soild differences was MK 2. MK 2 on the Genesis was a graphical disaster with low color, resolution and texture breakdowns. The sound especially was totally f'ed up because arcade sound just can not go through the poor sound chip of the Genesis. Meanwhile the SNES version was almost a arcade perfect translation, with great sound and music directly ripped from the arcade. Graphic wise, it was just a tad below the arcade too! The difference was night and day! And it was this that forced Sega to release the disaster known as the 32X!

[QUOTE="smartcriminal"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Well, its confirmed you were one of the delusional ones spouting this lol.

ActicEdge

More like 60 million :lol:

Luckily they aren't so harcore gamer.TM like SW is or they ma never have fun lol.

But yeah, like I said, confirmed you were one of the crazy cows spouting all this none sense.

[QUOTE="smartcriminal"][QUOTE="cainetao11"]Anybody remember in September, cows said the Wii's time is over and PS3 would be top seller at the holidays? A lot of manure........ActicEdge

Well, its confirmed you were one of the delusional ones spouting this lol.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="smartcriminal"] Now youre starting to realise the truth. Welcome to the light sir Now if only the other 50 something Million could wake upsmartcriminal

More like 60 million :lol:

Luckily they aren't so harcore gamer.TM like SW is or they ma never have fun lol.

But yeah, like I said, confirmed you were one of the crazy cows spouting all this none sense.

]

They are gimmicks. If you can continuously play Wii sport for hours on end and are above the age of 15 then you have more serious issues

smartcriminal

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="smartcriminal"] Cow/Lem. I enojy playing new IPs and rad exclusives. smartcriminal

They are gimmicks. If you can continuously play Wii sport for hours on end and are above the age of 15 then you have more serious issues

[QUOTE="smartcriminal"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] its funny that both wii sports and fit are new IPs and are top sellers at thatChutebox

They are gimmicks. If you can continuously play Wii sport for hours on end and are above the age of 15 then you have more serious issues

QFT!!!!

To Smartcriminal, and those people who don't understand "Different strokes for different folks" should get checked immediately to the local looney bin and get their heads checked!