[QUOTE="Birdy09"]
[QUOTE="Mark36111"]
First, I'm not even sure what it means for a FPS to be "shallow." As a previous poster said, in the end, all shooters boil down to pointing a reticle at enemies and pressing a button. As an academic exercise, however, I'll list the gameplay mechanics that Halo popularized, and you can point out to me which are shallow, and why:
-Recharging Health - A double edged sword, improves "Run and Gun" however makes camping alot more profitable and substainable, ontop of this it removes the subtle middle line of "tension" "Thrill" and "Survival" most of the older ones made you earn every aditional kill, while others like Quake and UT would force you to be nimble around the map to actually earn your kill streaks by topping up. Nowadays its just run n gun or hardcore camp, its ok youve been shot up, your magically regenerate without penatly for your lack of positioning, reflexes or tactical play.
To me, recharging health is great because it makes sure every encounter begins on an even playing field. For instance, say in a 1v1 game, player "A" is a better player than player "B." On the first encounter, A kills B, but B manages to take 70% of A's health. In the next encounter, the same result will occur with A killing B if health recharges. However, without recharging health, B can take advantage of A's low health, and will kill A even though he is an inferior player. Recharging health takes away easy, low-health kills.
Now see I figured this would be your point, but I dont see how its fair, firstly its only considering 1 on 1, secondly its not an RPG, and the only fps I can think of where the idea of "knocking off health" is Halo or perhaps TF2, most other shooters your health matters so little odds are the better player can still kill you at 30 health .... in which he deserves it. too much enphasis on "even playing field" why is it that everything has to be made equal? ok maybe slow regenerating health, but not full heal in 3-4 seconds, its ridiculous, unimersive and just goes to show that people just want mindless deathmatchs where only thier individual effort counts (you know, these are often team games, where health should remain...)
-Dedicated Grenade throw button Happens too quickly, especially in games that try to brag that they are realistic, if there was some accuracy to time held mechanic then I would agree more to it.... but its just instant throw with the same accuracy everytime, not only unrealistic but as CoD4 and Halo showed... makes grenades too easy and dominent, whereas they were treated as skilled deployments in older shooters that were used only at tactical times... (or at least, only scored tactical kills" as apposed to chucking them at every oppurtunity.
You'll find in Halo that skilled players use grenades exactly as you describe. The only ones who spam are noobs. As admitted by Bungie, grenades were overpowered in the Reach beta, but they've already been nerfed. The dedicated grenade button adds a wrinkle to traditional FPS gameplay, so it can't be accused of dumbing Halo down, even if you don't like it.
Il find that in Halo, skilled and amatures alike can just tap fire and throw an anovoidable grenade (due to slow movement speed, large hit boxes and no sprint) and insta kill someone... its very spammable. you cannot deny this.
-Dedicated melee button Same issue as Grenades, too fast, too accurate, 1 hit killing .... because every slash while sprinting should be fatal? nah... to compensate for those that just want to run around again, back attack maybe .... but the way Halo and CoD lundge at the target is ridiculously accurate, long ranged and fatal (though 2 hits for halo) ... have a look on Halo 3 website, its been ages since I played buy a goo 30-40% of kills were melee back then ... in a shooter... another big portion grenades, and then finally the battle rifle.
First, Melee hits are not one hit kills. They take two hits to kill with a three second delay between hits, by which time any decent player would have already killed you. Melee hits are used by good players situationally: either for stealth kills from behind, or as a close quarters finisher after already inflicting weapon damage. Like the grenade button, the melee button adds yet another layer to traditional FPS gameplay.
Ive said that Halo's is 2 hits, except from behind. and again i think your making things up to suit yourself... any amatuer can tap shoot then 1 hit melee, hell I do it and i barely play the game.... because its more effective than full on bullet spray due to its ridiculous lundge and aim assist. it doesnt add a layer, it removes a layer... it removes a weapon, it basically makes something quicker and easier to use weapons that are meant to be secondary aids. though this one is debatable.
-Two weapon carry limit Could you imagine only having 2 weapons in quake or UT? works in "realistic" shooters, though the quick knife/grenades take away from this, but no i cant see much wrong with this.
-Seemless vehicular combat (actually, this is yet to be popularized in shooters, as most vehicle segments remain scripted) Single player related? not my concern.
Mark36111
Well its personal opinion to some degree? but ok I'l humour you :)
I'd like to add some of my own?
Really Slow movement speed - i get shocked on how ofte people miss on Halo, everyone moves so slow, even when jumping.....
What does this have to do with a game being shallow. Could be a function of the skill of the players you've encountered, the inherent level of inacuracy of analog sticks, or both.
No it could be that the default weapon is a simple case of aim at your apponent, hold it down and they have no way to dodge if your any ind of competant aimer....
No sprint - A simple mechanic like Lean, yet adds so much to the skill of shooters.
Sprint is in Reach. I don't think it necessarily adds skill, though. Sure, hitting a sprinting opponent is more difficult, but sprinting also makes it easier for losing players to escape times they'd otherwise be killed. The effect cancels out.
Now see thats just bad logic, there is as much skill in aiming at a fast moving target as there is evading death, sprint adds to both. Halo Reach has it yes, its about time.
No lean - same as above.
Kind of nitpicking. A game contoller only has a certain number buttons, and leaning isn't sufficiently important to justify wasting any of them.
Hence the words limited and shallow.... it does add alot, you clearly havnt played the earlier CoDs or MoHAA? something as simple as lean makes a shooter more immersive and realistic, since you know, in combat soldier dont run in the open, they camp corners and use cover correctly. console shooters have started substituting this with cover systems .... that go into 3rd person, which is an around the corner hack ... and is totally out of the games ****
No Prone - Same as above
Again, nitpicking. Prone wouldn't even make sense in the context of a Halo game, since your character is wearing thousands of pounds of armor. You'd also get murdered instantly by grenades due to your immobility.
The armour that allows him to moon jump, 1 hit people, have no recoil, jump on tanks and planes.... yet he cant prone? again your logic just seems like your looking for reasons based on very short straws to disagree with me... that one especially. and erm... proning vs grenades? doesnt stop proning being useful in any other shooters :S the fact that you even think it would in HAlo shows how way to accessable grenades are to the point where they break another mechanic?
Half-assed-mini-game-modes - the stupid mixture of mini games like king of the hill , oddball and domination, something so much more interesting could be made.
There are 17 playlists on Halo 3 matchmaking (link). If you don't like objective games, you can easily find something else.
No my point is these "objective" games are very very minor compared to campaign push,defend ****objectives that are prevelent in older games such as ET:wolf and JK2:JAcademy, where the maps were individual designed and not generic points on already existant maps. Not halos fault as such.
Forced Matchmaking - Great, but at least give us the option to have our own servers?
You can make custom games. Not sure what the complaint here is.
ITs not dedicated server ****though is it?
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