Did Halo kill PC gaming?

A super solder capable of effortlessly flipping over a five ton tank is going to do killing damage when he smacks someone upside the head from behind with a bunt object. Makes perfect sense.Mark36111

I never knew PC gaming was dead?

[QUOTE="Mark36111"]A super solder capable of effortlessly flipping over a five ton tank is going to do killing damage when he smacks someone upside the head from behind with a bunt object. Makes perfect sense.Birdy09

[QUOTE="Mark36111"]

[QUOTE="Birdy09"]

Well its personal opinion to some degree? but ok I'l humour you :)

I'd like to add some of my own?

Really Slow movement speed - i get shocked on how ofte people miss on Halo, everyone moves so slow, even when jumping.....

What does this have to do with a game being shallow. Could be a function of the skill of the players you've encountered, the inherent level of inacuracy of analog sticks, or both.

No it could be that the default weapon is a simple case of aim at your apponent, hold it down and they have no way to dodge if your any ind of competant aimer....

Unless, of course, you're using this strategy against a skilled player, in which case you'll be five-shotted with the pistol or DMR before your spray-and-pray pays off.

No sprint - A simple mechanic like Lean, yet adds so much to the skill of shooters.

Sprint is in Reach. I don't think it necessarily adds skill, though. Sure, hitting a sprinting opponent is more difficult, but sprinting also makes it easier for losing players to escape times they'd otherwise be killed. The effect cancels out.

Now see thats just bad logic, there is as much skill in aiming at a fast moving target as there is evading death, sprint adds to both. Halo Reach has it yes, its about time.

Sorry, but there's nothing skillful about mashing the sprint button to avoid imminent death when you're taking fire.

No lean - same as above.

Kind of nitpicking. A game contoller only has a certain number buttons, and leaning isn't sufficiently important to justify wasting any of them.

Hence the words limited and shallow.... it does add alot, you clearly havnt played the earlier CoDs or MoHAA? something as simple as lean makes a shooter more immersive and realistic, since you know, in combat soldier dont run in the open, they camp corners and use cover correctly. console shooters have started substituting this with cover systems .... that go into 3rd person, which is an around the corner hack ... and is totally out of the games ****

I played MOHAA a ton. I don't remember using lean with any frequency at all. It's just not a consequential gameplay mechanic. If you want to argue that it adds complexity to games, I can't disagree, but it does so to same degree that a drop of rain adds water to the ocean.

No Prone - Same as above

Again, nitpicking. Prone wouldn't even make sense in the context of a Halo game, since your character is wearing thousands of pounds of armor. You'd also get murdered instantly by grenades due to your immobility.

The armour that allows him to moon jump, 1 hit people, have no recoil, jump on tanks and planes.... yet he cant prone? again your logic just seems like your looking for reasons based on very short straws to disagree with me... that one especially. and erm... proning vs grenades? doesnt stop proning being useful in any other shooters :S the fact that you even think it would in HAlo shows how way to accessable grenades are to the point where they break another mechanic?

I agree that pronation and emphasized grenade mechanics don't mix well. I prefer the grenade mechanics currently present in Halo, so I don't see how adding pronation to the formula would improve gameplay at all. You're arguing here that prone works well in other games, not that it would work well in Halo. Sure, Bungie could completely revamp their formula to make pronation a worthwhile mechanic, but they'd need to sacrifice some of the elements that distinguish Halo and make it great. The net change would be a negative.

Half-assed-mini-game-modes - the stupid mixture of mini games like king of the hill , oddball and domination, something so much more interesting could be made.

There are 17 playlists on Halo 3 matchmaking (link). If you don't like objective games, you can easily find something else.

No my point is these "objective" games are very very minor compared to campaign push,defend ****objectives that are prevelent in older games such as ET:wolf and JK2:JAcademy, where the maps were individual designed and not generic points on already existant maps. Not halos fault as such.

I don't have any experience with the games you cite, so I can't comment. Invasion mode fits with what you're describing, though.

Forced Matchmaking - Great, but at least give us the option to have our own servers?

You can make custom games. Not sure what the complaint here is.

ITs not dedicated server ****though is it?

This is a general criticism rather than one that concerns complexity. Judging from the beta, though, there was so little lag that dedicated servers are unnecessary.

Birdy09

Now see I figured this would be your point, but I dont see how its fair, firstly its only considering 1 on 1, secondly its not an RPG, and the only fps I can think of where the idea of "knocking off health" is Halo or perhaps TF2, most other shooters your health matters so little odds are the better player can still kill you at 30 health .... in which he deserves it. too much enphasis on "even playing field" why is it that everything has to be made equal? ok maybe slow regenerating health, but not full heal in 3-4 seconds, its ridiculous, unimersive and just goes to show that people just want mindless deathmatchs where only thier individual effort counts (you know, these are often team games, where health should remain...)

You're debating preferences rather than complexity here. You prefer games that deempisize the individual and individual skill gaps. I don't. It's a red herring to the subject at hand.

Il find that in Halo, skilled and amatures alike can just tap fire and throw an anovoidable grenade (due to slow movement speed, large hit boxes and no sprint) and insta kill someone... its very spammable. you cannot deny this.

Frag grenades are never insta-kill unless accompanied by another damaging attack. A fully shielded player can take a direct hit from a grenade and still survive. The only time insta-kills happen aganst undamaged players are when you stick someone with a plasma grenade, which is perhaps the single most skillful act in the game. If you consider grenades "unavoidable," then you really need to work on your movement and game awareness. In the Reach beta, which featured the most powerful frags of any Halo game, only 70 out of my 963 deaths were due to grenades.

Ive said that Halo's is 2 hits, except from behind. and again i think your making things up to suit yourself... any amatuer can tap shoot then 1 hit melee, hell I do it and i barely play the game.... because its more effective than full on bullet spray due to its ridiculous lundge and aim assist. it doesnt add a layer, it removes a layer... it removes a weapon, it basically makes something quicker and easier to use weapons that are meant to be secondary aids. though this one is debatable.

Weapons are not removed from the equation. You admit yourself that the key is combining effective shooting with melee attacks. There are differing degrees to which players can do so effectively. A noob may be able to pull off a shoot/melee combo and kill another noob, but a good player can do so with much greater effectiveness, and will almost always kill the noob. You speak as if there is no skill gap in Halo between noobs and pros, and that is simply untrue. You don't seem to understand what separates the noobs from the pros. Noobs employ grenades and melee hits in the spam-like fashion you describe, whereas good players use each leg of the stool (weapons, grenades, and melee) in concert with the others, and adapt their usage to suit each particular situation.

[QUOTE="Mark36111"]A super solder capable of effortlessly flipping over a five ton tank is going to do killing damage when he smacks someone upside the head from behind with a bunt object. Makes perfect sense.Birdy09

Really lol at people who are like robots and say "PC gaming isn't dead :O?" because that's clearly not what the TC meant. It's what you mean with what you say that matters... hopeless missinterpretations.

I understood clear enough what TC is talking about. He means that Halo dumbed down the genre, FPS games are now based on shield HP for example. That's a gameplay mechanic that makes FPS gaming more accessible, thus it has been casualized to an extent. MW2 = casual game, no matter what you say or how you spin it. It's like the Mario Kart of Nintendo games, it's a bridge title. MW2 is not a core title

THEREFORE, because casualization = sells, his beloved 'core' games are getting dumbed down; that's what TC means. It is true, btw. But the way TC presented it was not good, I agree.

Personally I don't care as I am for these changes.

[QUOTE="Mestitia"]

Halo on consoles is a great fun game, but compared to a FPS's on the PC it's like

foagoa

So what PC FPS is of higher quality than Halo: CE? Crysis? :lol:

[QUOTE="iDefineInfinity"]

[QUOTE="dark-warmachine"]

How exactly did Halo and Modern Warfare series contribute to this dumbing down?...so I know where you are coming from.

dark-warmachine

Halo is the beginning of the end of PC gaming, yes. But it didn't kill it entirely.

How did these console games dumb down pc games or better yet how are these games dumb down again, so I know where these people are coming from. Did the dumbing down come about in terms of gameplay mechanics, and if that's the case how so? What gameplay mechanics that exist on pc shooters and yet aren't found on the console shooters or atleast not doable on console?

The flood of the FPS recently, and the fact that the FPS genre is infinitely more popular on consoles than on the PC, is a result of the existence of Halo. Anyone denying this is simply a fanboy, and nothing else.

HAHAA. Halo killed PC gaming. So your blaming one game for killing PC gaming? It's not like HALO went up to PC games and said "be like me". Designers of games found it to be a great game (like me) and used it's techniques to make PC games. I don't see how HALO killed PC gaming. And since when was PC gaming dead anyway? I'm having so much fun on mah PC with all those crazy steam sales

[QUOTE="foagoa"][QUOTE="Mestitia"]

Halo on consoles is a great fun game, but compared to a FPS's on the PC it's like

iDefineInfinity

So what PC FPS is of higher quality than Halo: CE? Crysis? :lol:

As much as I love Halo I think Crysis is pretty damn good as well. So don't diss Crysis

If we go through everything in existence, we're bound to find something that killed PC gaming eventually. :P

ArmA 2 has the largest scale on any FPS to date baby! ( i think)

Right... which is why it's used in MLG? Where players get paid money to compete, is all for a game that requires no skill, makes sense.

Yes, PC gaming was totally killed by Halo.

Proof!

P.S: [spoiler] Sorry, had to do it! :) Couldn't resist [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

Level 1, 7 posts...*facepalm* Seriously Halo did not kill PC gaming...Also its hard to say something killed PC gaming when PC gaming is alive and doing well.

toast_burner

So your saying Deus Ex, one of the greatest games ever made is dumbed down?

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Mark36111"]A super solder capable of effortlessly flipping over a five ton tank is going to do killing damage when he smacks someone upside the head from behind with a bunt object. Makes perfect sense.lowe0

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="lowe0"] Neither does walking off a bullet wound after being revived with a defibrilator, but strangely, Battlefield isn't subject to the same standard. Mark36111

Try ninja'ing people. That's always awesome and requires a ton of skill

(Ninja'ing = Knowing someone is behind you since you just took a look at your radar, fooling him by jumping backwards quickly to give him a nice backsmack and get the melee kill/assassination.

Right... which is why it's used in MLG? Where players get paid money to compete, is all for a game that requires no skill, makes sense.

Meat_Wad_Fan

[QUOTE="toast_burner"][QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

Level 1, 7 posts...*facepalm* Seriously Halo did not kill PC gaming...Also its hard to say something killed PC gaming when PC gaming is alive and doing well.

OB-47

So your saying Deus Ex, one of the greatest games ever made is dumbed down?

Read carefully dude. He said Deus ex: IW (Invisible War). Not the original (Obviously the original Deus Ex can't be dumbed down by Halo since it came before it)

[QUOTE="Mark36111"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] The difference is a mere story note isnt being used to make excuses for poor mechanics in battlefield is it? no.Birdy09

if you try to intentionally kill someone just by melee'ing, your situation requires a moron who doesn't know how to backpedal. that's how you win sword duals/avoid dying to swords in general. the same goes for melee'ing.

I agree the melee lunge is a bit ridiculous at times. sometimes it's too random.

It also depends whether you mean "ruin" or "make less popular", by "killed".

[QUOTE="OB-47"]

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]He makes a good point. Most of the PC's good FPS franchises are post-Halo. Most of its pre-Halo franchises have been dumbed down to apeal to the Halo crowd (Turok, Deus ex: IW)Eggimannd

So your saying Deus Ex, one of the greatest games ever made is dumbed down?

Read carefully dude. He said Deus ex: IW (Invisible War). Not the original (Obviously the original Deus Ex can't be dumbed down by Halo since it came before it)

Oh I see. But still I don't get how a game that came out BEFORE HALO can be dumbed to down to appeal to the HALO CROWD which didn't exist at the time

[QUOTE="iDefineInfinity"]

[QUOTE="foagoa"]Exactly, anyone who disagrees is an idiot! OB-47

So what PC FPS is of higher quality than Halo: CE? Crysis? :lol:

As much as I love Halo I think Crysis is pretty damn good as well. So don't diss Crysis

I'm sorry, but I have to. I was one of the guys that hyped Crysis very much prior to its launch. I thought that it would actually be fun to play, not just to look at. I was very wrong.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"][QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

Level 1, 7 posts...*facepalm* Seriously Halo did not kill PC gaming...Also its hard to say something killed PC gaming when PC gaming is alive and doing well.

OB-47

So your saying Deus Ex, one of the greatest games ever made is dumbed down?

Someone needs to get a better taste in games, seriously. :lol:

[QUOTE="OB-47"]

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]He makes a good point. Most of the PC's good FPS franchises are post-Halo. Most of its pre-Halo franchises have been dumbed down to apeal to the Halo crowd (Turok, Deus ex: IW)iDefineInfinity

So your saying Deus Ex, one of the greatest games ever made is dumbed down?

Someone needs to get a better taste in games, seriously. :lol:

[QUOTE="OB-47"]

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]He makes a good point. Most of the PC's good FPS franchises are post-Halo. Most of its pre-Halo franchises have been dumbed down to apeal to the Halo crowd (Turok, Deus ex: IW)iDefineInfinity

So your saying Deus Ex, one of the greatest games ever made is dumbed down?

Someone needs to get a better taste in games, seriously. :lol:

No he doesn't. Deus Ex definitely is one of the best games ever made and a lot of people would agree despite review scores.

[QUOTE="Eggimannd"]

[QUOTE="OB-47"]

So your saying Deus Ex, one of the greatest games ever made is dumbed down?

OB-47

Read carefully dude. He said Deus ex: IW (Invisible War). Not the original (Obviously the original Deus Ex can't be dumbed down by Halo since it came before it)

Oh I see. But still I don't get how a game that came out BEFORE HALO can be dumbed to down to appeal to the HALO CROWD which didn't exist at the time

Dude... How can you not understand... Deus Ex: Invisible War is the second installment in the Deus Ex series and it came out on consoles AFTER Halo. What he is saying is Deus Ex: Invisible War was dumbed down to appeal to the Halo fanbase.

Halo didnt do anything to pc.. it only affected consoles.. since the release of halo there have been many better PC FPS on the market than halo... like in the pc review for Halo 2 stated

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Halo 2 for Vista is a solid game that probably won't appeal to anyone who's played any recent high-profile PC shooters."

"it's now available as one of the first Vista-only PC games. It's still easy to see why this game was so loved on consoles in its day, but when you put it in direct comparison with recent PC shooters, it loses a ton of its appeal, making it best suited for Halo fans who want a good way to play or make custom maps."

"The single-player campaign is interesting, and the cliff-hanger doesn't feel so horrific when you consider that Halo 3 is going to be hitting consoles to finish the story in just a few months. The multiplayer side is fun, too, but all of it feels overshadowed. The PC has more than its fair share of amazing shooters that blow Halo 2 away in every possible way, making this one best suited for Halo fans that want an easy way to play custom maps."

Review

[QUOTE="OB-47"]

[QUOTE="Eggimannd"]

Read carefully dude. He said Deus ex: IW (Invisible War). Not the original (Obviously the original Deus Ex can't be dumbed down by Halo since it came before it)

Eggimannd

Oh I see. But still I don't get how a game that came out BEFORE HALO can be dumbed to down to appeal to the HALO CROWD which didn't exist at the time

Dude... How can you not understand... Deus Ex: Invisible War is the second installment in the Deus Ex series and it came out on consoles AFTER Halo. What he is saying is Deus Ex: Invisible War was dumbed down to appeal to the Halo fanbase.

Oh I see. Man I'm reading stoopid today

Halo didnt do anything to pc.. it only affected consoles.. since the release of halo there have been many better FPS on the market than halo... like in the pc review for Halo 2 stated

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Halo 2 for Vista is a solid game that probably won't appeal to anyone who's played any recent high-profile PC shooters."

"it's now available as one of the first Vista-only PC games. It's still easy to see why this game was so loved on consoles in its day, but when you put it in direct comparison with recent PC shooters, it loses a ton of its appeal, making it best suited for Halo fans who want a good way to play or make custom maps."

"The single-player campaign is interesting, and the cliff-hanger doesn't feel so horrific when you consider that Halo 3 is going to be hitting consoles to finish the story in just a few months. The multiplayer side is fun, too, but all of it feels overshadowed. The PC has more than its fair share of amazing shooters that blow Halo 2 away in every possible way, making this one best suited for Halo fans that want an easy way to play custom maps."

Review

devious742

You realize that Halo 2 PC came out three years after the Xbox version, right? Of course it felt dated.

Mark36111

What he is showing is that halo did nothing to PC.

[QUOTE="devious742"]

Halo didnt do anything to pc.. it only affected consoles.. since the release of halo there have been many better FPS on the market than halo... like in the pc review for Halo 2 stated

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Halo 2 for Vista is a solid game that probably won't appeal to anyone who's played any recent high-profile PC shooters."

"it's now available as one of the first Vista-only PC games. It's still easy to see why this game was so loved on consoles in its day, but when you put it in direct comparison with recent PC shooters, it loses a ton of its appeal, making it best suited for Halo fans who want a good way to play or make custom maps."

"The single-player campaign is interesting, and the cliff-hanger doesn't feel so horrific when you consider that Halo 3 is going to be hitting consoles to finish the story in just a few months. The multiplayer side is fun, too, but all of it feels overshadowed. The PC has more than its fair share of amazing shooters that blow Halo 2 away in every possible way, making this one best suited for Halo fans that want an easy way to play custom maps."

Review

Mark36111

You haven't been gaming very long have you?

PC gaming is an integral part of MS's gaming dominance seeing as that Nintendo and Sony arent making games for PC.

bryn8150

[QUOTE="Mark36111"]

You realize that Halo 2 PC came out three years after the Xbox version, right? Of course it felt dated.

Espada12

What he is showing is that halo did nothing to PC.

Yes, it did. First-person shooters, since Halo, were and are still made primarily for consoles, not the PC, which was the case prior to Halo. Go learn some gaming history.

Halo didnt do anything to pc.. it only affected consoles.. since the release of halo there have been many better FPS on the market than halo... like in the pc review for Halo 2 stated

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Halo 2 for Vista is a solid game that probably won't appeal to anyone who's played any recent high-profile PC shooters."

"it's now available as one of the first Vista-only PC games. It's still easy to see why this game was so loved on consoles in its day, but when you put it in direct comparison with recent PC shooters, it loses a ton of its appeal, making it best suited for Halo fans who want a good way to play or make custom maps."

"The single-player campaign is interesting, and the cliff-hanger doesn't feel so horrific when you consider that Halo 3 is going to be hitting consoles to finish the story in just a few months. The multiplayer side is fun, too, but all of it feels overshadowed. The PC has more than its fair share of amazing shooters that blow Halo 2 away in every possible way, making this one best suited for Halo fans that want an easy way to play custom maps."

Review

devious742

Do you mean on consoles? If that's the case, then what FPS games have been, pound-for-pound, of higher quality and more revolutionary than Halo: CE?

haters will always hate

I think a more approriate title would had been "Halo dumbed down the FPS genre". Which would be wrong too, the most popular games have always been pretty simple, maybe Halo helped publishers realize that and spread the FPS fever to consoles. But PC is so much more than FPS, not to mention the shooter genre is still over populated on PC despite being shared with consoles.

I think a more approriate title would had been "Halo dumbed down the FPS genre". Which would be wrong too, the most popular games have always been pretty simple, maybe Halo helped publishers realize that and spread the FPS fever to consoles. But PC is so much more than FPS, not to mention the shooter genre is still over populated on PC despite being shared with consoles.

ManicAce

But here's the truth: Halo simply was an absolutely amazing FPS in the beginning of 2000, possible the greatest ever on consoles, that showed the world that FPS games on consoles were capable of contending against the ones on the PC.

Developers were inspired by this and more and more began developing FPS games for the consoles instead for the PC. Now, CE may have been responsible for the immense growth of FPS games on consoles recently, but it did not "kill" or "ruin" the genre on the PC. We must not forget the greatness and quality of the first game.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="Mark36111"]

You realize that Halo 2 PC came out three years after the Xbox version, right? Of course it felt dated.

iDefineInfinity

What he is showing is that halo did nothing to PC.

Yes, it did. First-person shooters, since Halo, were and are still made primarily for consoles, not the PC, which was the case prior to Halo. Go learn some gaming history.

Now let's see how a Xbox 360 will do if we run maxed out Crysis or Metro 2033 on it.

[QUOTE="iDefineInfinity"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

What he is showing is that halo did nothing to PC.

Vesica_Prime

Yes, it did. First-person shooters, since Halo, were and are still made primarily for consoles, not the PC, which was the case prior to Halo. Go learn some gaming history.

Now let's see how a Xbox 360 will do if we run maxed out Crysis or Metro 2033 on it.

What's your point, again?

It was definitely Big Rigs' fault

skinny_man_69