Digital Distribution Is Far Better Than A Disk

yes the service too. I have zero confidence that they will keep the service available for decades. at least without you paying a monthly fee or other price again for something you already paid for.Ontain

so, "my gut" tells me these things.

Kids these days are their digital media.

Most Audiophiles would tell you that Vinyl sounds better than CD's or MP3s. And yes Vinyl is still alive and kicking today, even artists like 50 Cent, Eminem and Lady GaGa have had Vinyl releases of their albums.

DarkGamer007

Reasons why Digital Disribution Wins

-Doesn't take up space

-No need for a loud disk drive

-All of your games are neatly stored

-No need for used/new games

-We can drive those nazi's Gamestop out of buisness or at least force them to change their evil nazi esque ways

However lets be fair and also count the benefits of physical storage.

IndigoSunrise

I think of all the debates about DD...this is one of the worst.

1) Are you telling me a digital copy of a games doesn't take up a ton of hard drive space? Or does only physical, tangible space have value in your line of reasoning? Even if that is the case, I have never heard of someone having so many games he had no space for them. Plus you can sell old games if you ever need more space which means money in your pocket.

2) The only thing I hear in my PC and PS3 is the fan. And doesn't the hard drive make noise when it is revving up? (honest question)

3) DD games are neatly stored? Maybe out of sight is out of mind...because I'm thinking of PCs and the need for disk clean ups, disk defragmentation, etc. With a hard copy, I just stick it on the shelf. Neat as can be.

4) This is true, and I think this is another issue completely. I think there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't like the idea of not having used games available, or the option to sell games they no longer want. With DD you just sit on it forever, or get rid of it for nothing. With a physical copy you can sell it for money if you no longer want it. I think the morality of used games is another debate completely.

5) This has nothing to do with the DD market. At least not directly. People WANT and LIKE used games, therefore there is a market for used games. And while Gamestop/EB may be "nazis", there are tons of people out there who apparantly don't mind living under that "nazi" regime.

[QUOTE="Ontain"] yes the service too. I have zero confidence that they will keep the service available for decades. at least without you paying a monthly fee or other price again for something you already paid for.Hewkii

so, "my gut" tells me these things.

[QUOTE="IndigoSunrise"]

Reasons why Digital Disribution Wins

-Doesn't take up space

-No need for a loud disk drive

-All of your games are neatly stored

-No need for used/new games

-We can drive those nazi's Gamestop out of buisness or at least force them to change their evil nazi esque ways

However lets be fair and also count the benefits of physical storage.

ZIMdoom

5) This has nothing to do with the DD market. At least not directly. People WANT and LIKE used games, therefore there is a market for used games. And while Gamestop/EB may be "nazis", there are tons of people out there who apparantly don't mind living under that "nazi" regime.

If video games ever go 100% DD, publishers can charge what ever they want for a game, becuase you have no other means of obtaining it.

3) DD games are neatly stored? Maybe out of sight is out of mind...because I'm thinking of PCs and the need for disk clean ups, disk defragmentation, etc. With a hard copy, I just stick it on the shelf. Neat as can be.

ZIMdoom

It's your side's duty to prove me wrong since you support the change to DD. There are services with music that have failed as well as online play that were turned off by the company after the game got old. so what's to say that 20 years from now a service will still be around. even 10 years. or that the old game will still be on the service? I know that if i still have the physical media and player i can still play the game 10 years from now.Ontain

iTunes has been steady for...eight years? now and shows no sign of slowing, and actually introduced DRM-free music. it's perfectly feasable that as long as a system is making money, that it won't be discontinued.

[QUOTE="BillGates_Money"]video gamers already have the rep with being lazy we dont need this to happen..go outside get some air while u drive to the store sheeshHewkii

iTunes has been steady for...eight years? now and shows no sign of slowing, and actually introduced DRM-free music. it's perfectly feasable that as long as a system is making money, that it won't be discontinued.

Hewkii

bahblahIndigoSunrise

In any case, I'm a proponent for both happily coexisting for all eternity. That way I can tell Microsoft to **** off with their Games on Demand service and buy the game new for 60% less instead. If price ever ceases to be an issue then it's simply a matter of weighing the good against the bad. Basically, if you own a physical copy you can do whatever the hell you want with it, including selling and borrowing it, digital downloads are much more restrictive. The upside would be that it's more convenient. In most cases I'm unwilling to make that tradeoff. I typically only buy DD games if they aren't available from elsewhere. And I'll continue doing so for the forseeable future.

Plus I prefer good old tangible, physical items.

What if you have a bad connection and can't download games? That's very unfair. Jobs will be lost. It's nice having a collection on a shelf or some where. It would take a while to download full games, probably would be better to just go to the store if you wanted the game faster. I don't mind DD for downloading some old games that you won't see too often in stores any more like Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time.

I've posted many times before in other threads about Digital Distrobution, and now I'm going to elaborate more on why I don't like Digital Distrobution.

1) Internet Speeds: Not all gamers are hooked up to the internet and those who are some of them don't have broadband internet or simply fast enough broadband to download full games. It takes me about an hour or more sometimes depending if my sister or my mother are using their laptops or not to download a 1.0 GB demo. So it would take me more than six or more hours depending on how many people were trying to A} Download the game, B} Who else is using our internet connection besides me. In that six or more hours it would take me to download Gears of War, I could have spent 20 minutes driving to GameStop, 10 minutes to buy the game, and 20 minutes driving back home, and then beat the game entirely before I could have downloaded it. Now games are getting larger, and larger, and while Metal Gear Soild 4 is the exception to the rule and not the rule to the exception, it did take nearly a full 50 GB of Blu-Ray Disc space (not because the game was that large but because of the 7.1 uncompressed audio) just imagine trying to download THAT. Imagine how big games are going to be next generation, they could be 15-30 GB in size. People will also run into problems with Bandwidth caps. Internet Services to get more money are putting Bandwidth caps on internet connections only further limiting the ammount of games you could download and access in a month.

2)What happens if the service I am using goes under? Now the problem of the PC of "Which service do I use?" is eliminated on consoles because it make sense for each company to provide a game download service for its console, but what happens if one of the companies goes under? Not only will you be not able to access the games you paid for, but you cannot enjoy a backlog of games you missed or have yet to download. This would also render your console virtually worthless as nobody would be able to use it for playing video games.

3) Theft. Now it is true that someone could break into your home and steal all your video games, however stealing someones password and login information would be much easier than actually finding out where a person lives, going there, and breaking in their home to steal their video games. If someone steals your account that has all of your downloaded games on it....too bad, you would have to repurchase all of those games over again.

4) Pricing: Look at Games on Demand on Xbox Live, Perfect Dark Zero costs $20 on the service where I can run to Gamestop and pick up the game for $5. Publishers would have complete control over a games pricing in a 100% Digital Distrobution world. You would have no other way of obtaining your games. The used market, and renting services would be useless and out of buisness, meaning that Activision could finally get its wish of charging $100 for a blockbuster game.

I have more reasons, which I don't feel like typing because I've disscussed this issue so much in other threads, but I think what I've typed should be enough to get my point across.

[QUOTE="Chris898"]

i disagree. I like to have something physical rather than just having on a hard drive.

IndigoSunrise

[QUOTE="Ontain"] and how many died competing with itunes? which of the game DD services will die till there is a king? i don't think i'm willing to risk my game library on that gamble.Hewkii

But what happens if Nintendo or Sony goes under in 20 years or are bought by a bigger company?

These are questions that a lot of people are asking. With a physical copy of a game and a console it's your personal responsibility to take care of them. When it's DD you're not in control of any of this.

I think there are pros, and cons to each side, and anybody who strongly prefers one over the other isn't really seeing the advantages each has.

As far as giving gamers options I don't think anybody has done it better than stardock. I have a physical copy of Sins of the Solar Empire that I can install, and play lan (offline) on as many machines as I want. I also have my serial number attached to my impulse account so I can download the game if I happen to be unable to find my disc, or I'm just lazy. I basically have all the advantages of DD, with all the advantages of a physical copy.

[QUOTE="Ontain"] and how many died competing with itunes? which of the game DD services will die till there is a king? i don't think i'm willing to risk my game library on that gamble.Hewkii

So one company would have absolute and total control over the games at all times, even if you bought a copy of the game from them already. That sounds like a lot to worry about. What if they get greedy? What if they stop actually selling games to you and force you to rent playtime?

4) Pricing: Look at Games on Demand on Xbox Live, Perfect Dark Zero costs $20 on the service where I can run to Gamestop and pick up the game for $5. Publishers would have complete control over a games pricing in a 100% Digital Distribution world. You would have no other way of obtaining your games. The used market, and renting services would be useless and out of business, meaning that Activision could finally get its wish of charging $100 for a blockbuster game.

DarkGamer007

What if they stop actually selling games to you and force you to rent playtime?Burning-Sludge

then there would be protests. people aren't stupid, or if they are they at least are angry enough when somebody takes their games away from them.

[QUOTE="BillGates_Money"]video gamers already have the rep with being lazy we dont need this to happen..go outside get some air while u drive to the store sheeshHewkii

Lol

Internet Usage Caps.

Until they go away, DD is never catching on.

TaMuK711

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

4) Pricing: Look at Games on Demand on Xbox Live, Perfect Dark Zero costs $20 on the service where I can run to Gamestop and pick up the game for $5. Publishers would have complete control over a games pricing in a 100% Digital Distribution world. You would have no other way of obtaining your games. The used market, and renting services would be useless and out of business, meaning that Activision could finally get its wish of charging $100 for a blockbuster game.

Hewkii

But see, this is where so far the console version of DD is behind the "real world". How many "ok but not great" or even "Why the heck did they release that" games are on the VC, Wiiware, XBLA, and PSN? And how many of them are a penny cheaper then they were when they released? We're not seeing these games go down in price at all even though there is little to no demand for some of them.

yes, without a defrag you can't even find the shortcut to launch the game. this is the truth.

Hewkii

I assume you are being sarcastic. I would like to point out that he never mentioned how "easy the game is to find and launch." He talked about "neatness." I would argue there is nothing "neat" about how a PC stores a game on the HDD.

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

4) Pricing: Look at Games on Demand on Xbox Live, Perfect Dark Zero costs $20 on the service where I can run to Gamestop and pick up the game for $5. Publishers would have complete control over a games pricing in a 100% Digital Distribution world. You would have no other way of obtaining your games. The used market, and renting services would be useless and out of business, meaning that Activision could finally get its wish of charging $100 for a blockbuster game.

Hewkii

What if they stop actually selling games to you and force you to rent playtime?Burning-Sludge

then there would be protests. people aren't stupid, or if they are they at least are angry enough when somebody takes their games away from them.

1) Not to sound like a realist, but if the worlds supply and demand ACTUALLY worked as simplistically as people on the internet thought, we'd be in a totally different world. For example, if we are talking about DD, then supply and demand would dictate that the DD copy would always and forever be cheaper because it is essentially infinite supply for limited demand. Further, there is less incentive to drop prices because the product takes the least possible space. Stores have a physical incentive to drop prices to move product and free up space. That is just one problem with your overly simplistic "supply and demand" response. Supply and demand would dictate that game prices should be cheaper than ever, but they are going up in price. It should dictate that DD means DD productsare MUCH cheaper, but they aren't.

2) I think there is more than enough realworld evidence to show that, while "stupid" may be harsh, people are certainlyFAR FAR FAR from aware ofwhat the hell is going on around them and MORE than willing to just accept what they are told and go about business as usual. Even though I am aware of this, I'm sure the majority of things I doon any given day I don't think about...I just do them by habbit or because I'm too busy to care or whatever. Nobodyis completely 100% aware ofeverything they do. If they did they wouldn't shop at places like Walmart. There would be 100% voter turnout in every election. There wouldn't be corporations, etc.But people are willing to accept the bar being constantly lowered becausetheir lives are busy enough and they can't be bothered to protest everyunfair cause....if any.

Why do people keep saying that DD will eliminate rentals. I'm not fully a proponent of DD, I like a mixture of both DD and disc but OnDemand is digital rental. It can also be cheaper than renting a movie from Blockbuster. I can rent all the movies I want through my cable provider and in HD and then pay for it on the next cable bill. OnDemand is way better than renting from a movie store.

I'm not 100% convinced about games as opposed to movies. You could set up a rental system for games just like OnDemand. It wouldn't be difficult.

DD could win out only if the prices were substantially cheaper than disc. It would be up to the companies to pass the savings of packaging and distribution on to it's customers. MS is providing DD to older games but those games are substantially higher than games at GameStop. Who in their right mind would pay to dl Perfect Dark for $19.99 when you can get it from Gamestop for under $9.99. There are even new copies of older games at Gamestop that are cheaper than their DD counterparts on Live. That's insane and I couldn't see why anyone would pay for something like that. If they were smart they would use this opportunity to undercut Gamespot by charging much less for the downloads. People would then rather buy the download than a worn used copy. It might be a short term loss but in the long run they would kill Gamestops used game market.

Reasons why Digital Disribution Wins

-Doesn't take up space

-No need for a loud disk drive

-All of your games are neatly stored

-No need for used/new games

-We can drive those nazi's Gamestop out of buisness or at least force them to change their evil nazi esque ways

However lets be fair and also count the benefits of physical storage.

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Reasons why A physical game CD/Cartridge wins

-Games will become scratched and dirty over time eventually becoming good for nothing more than coasters.

-Former freinds can borrow them and never give them back!

-Stickers, plastic wrap and other useless things are awesome!

-Do you enjoy paying more for what a publisher calls a "collector's edition"? That consists of nothing more than the regular game and a wortheless art book/plastic figurine? Then physical formats are for you!

-Enjoy a increasingly large and unmangable libary of game cases that will eventuall topple and kill you!

-Can be fashioned into a shuriken for those pesky suprise ninja attacks

-Can't be sold later down the road if it sucks, which is often the case.

-DRM is lame. We know when things go 100% digital, that the companies are gonna slap the cuffs on us.

-Steam has got it right, but I still buy the boxed product if it's available. Steam didn't get it right in the beginning.

-Digital Distribution shouldn't be as costly as a retail product, or even more in some cases. That's ridiculous. Steam has had some overpriced releases, but luckily, they balance it out with sales.

I'll take retail. And retail keeps more jobs, too.

BioShockOwnz

THIS.

this reason alone should be enough reason why to keep buying games at retail outlets. considering how many gamestops and eb games there are in the country...we need all the jobs we can keep in the U.S. PLUS i have the option to buy the games at a cheaper price than whats offered on DD. a lot of....well.....most of the times DD is overpriced as shown with xbls newest additions to the online catalog.

anyways my rule of thumb is to NEVER buy into the first way of anything new. i like to wait a while for them to work the kinks out...

What's the value of a digitally distributed item that you own if you don't want it anymore? How much could a copy of my digitally distributed FF7 go for because I would like to sell it?

u have to be kidding me. the game boxes,collecting them.. its awesomeonuruca

BioshockOwnz covered what I was going to say so I'll just add to that:

• Millions of jobs will be lost if gaming goes all DD.
• How can we recover our DL'd games if our system breaks (Sony/Microsoft will probaly be too greedy to let use download twice)

CannedWorms

-Can't be sold later down the road if it sucks, which is often the case.

-DRM is lame. We know when things go 100% digital, that the companies are gonna slap the cuffs on us.

-Steam has got it right, but I still buy the boxed product if it's available. Steam didn't get it right in the beginning.

-Digital Distribution shouldn't be as costly as a retail product, or even more in some cases. That's ridiculous. Steam has had some overpriced releases, but luckily, they balance it out with sales.

I'll take retail. And retail keeps more jobs, too.

BioShockOwnz

Steam never overprices. Infact alot of the time the games are slightly cheaper, and steam has sales every week.

Games on Demand is overpriced though. Call of Duty 2 for 30$ (40 canadian) is the biggest joke ever. But even Games on Demand has good deals (Burnout Paradise + DLC for 20$)

[QUOTE="onuruca"]u have to be kidding me. the game boxes,collecting them.. its awesometester962

Why do people keep saying that DD will eliminate rentals. I'm not fully a proponent of DD, I like a mixture of both DD and disc but OnDemand is digital rental. It can also be cheaper than renting a movie from Blockbuster. I can rent all the movies I want through my cable provider and in HD and then pay for it on the next cable bill. OnDemand is way better than renting from a movie store.

I'm not 100% convinced about games as opposed to movies. You could set up a rental system for games just like OnDemand. It wouldn't be difficult.

DD could win out only if the prices were substantially cheaper than disc. It would be up to the companies to pass the savings of packaging and distribution on to it's customers. MS is providing DD to older games but those games are substantially higher than games at GameStop. Who in their right mind would pay to dl Perfect Dark for $19.99 when you can get it from Gamestop for under $9.99. There are even new copies of older games at Gamestop that are cheaper than their DD counterparts on Live. That's insane and I couldn't see why anyone would pay for something like that. If they were smart they would use this opportunity to undercut Gamespot by charging much less for the downloads. People would then rather buy the download than a worn used copy. It might be a short term loss but in the long run they would kill Gamestops used game market.

ParisSun

What's the value of a digitally distributed item that you own if you don't want it anymore? How much could a copy of my digitally distributed FF7 go for because I would like to sell it?

tmntPunchout

I completely disagree. Just on personal preference, I love having a tangible thing, and I think that downloading games is lame unless it's a small game that would be pointless to use a disk for. Also, I don't know what console your talking about, But the Ps3 disk drive and for most PC games it is silent. My X360 is the only thing I have that is noisy. Plus Blu-ray disks don't scratch (Believe me, I saw someone take a fish hook to one and it didn't scratch). Plus when you think about a game that takes up a lot of space, you would have to have a huge (and expensive) harddrive to have more than a few games. Plus if your account or something is lost, you can't get the games you have back.

Im kind of on the fence for dd. I think it's great for handhelds like the psp go but i dont want to have to purchase major console games through dd only. I also feel that dd may force developers and publishers to release less crap. Which is a good thing. If a person knows that a game is horrible and sold through dd only they will have less of an incentive to buy it where is if it was sold on disk and they could easily sell the game or trade it in. Once you purchase a game through dd it is yours and there is no way you can ever resell it or trade it off. You can do all that with a disk.

[QUOTE="tester962"][QUOTE="onuruca"]u have to be kidding me. the game boxes,collecting them.. its awesomeBrownesque

You said it.

I've been gaming for well over 10 years, I own tons of collectors editions and I've kept all my manuals, but I love digital distribtuion, and as far as I'm concerned, the sooner we switch to it, the better.

I downloaded Burnout Paradise off Games on Demand today, it was fantastic. I've been getting 90% of my PC games off steam lately, and it feels wonderful to be able to do the same thing on my 360.

An hour and a half after purchasing it, I was playing, and it only took up 2.8 gigs of space on my 120 GB hard drive.

I completely disagree. Just on personal preference, I love having a tangible thing, and I think that downloading games is lame unless it's a small game that would be pointless to use a disk for. Also, I don't know what console your talking about, But the Ps3 disk drive and for most PC games it is silent. My X360 is the only thing I have that is noisy. Plus Blu-ray disks don't scratch (Believe me, I saw someone take a fish hook to one and it didn't scratch). Plus when you think about a game that takes up a lot of space, you would have to have a huge (and expensive) harddrive to have more than a few games. Plus if your account or something is lost, you can't get the games you have back.

mgkennedy5

[QUOTE="mgkennedy5"]

I completely disagree. Just on personal preference, I love having a tangible thing, and I think that downloading games is lame unless it's a small game that would be pointless to use a disk for. Also, I don't know what console your talking about, But the Ps3 disk drive and for most PC games it is silent. My X360 is the only thing I have that is noisy. Plus Blu-ray disks don't scratch (Believe me, I saw someone take a fish hook to one and it didn't scratch). Plus when you think about a game that takes up a lot of space, you would have to have a huge (and expensive) harddrive to have more than a few games. Plus if your account or something is lost, you can't get the games you have back.

Brownesque

[QUOTE="tester962"][QUOTE="onuruca"]u have to be kidding me. the game boxes,collecting them.. its awesomeBrownesque

[QUOTE="mythrol"]What happens when I want to trade in my game? I like the idea of Digital distribution, but it effectively turns my game value into $0 as there's no option for me to be able to trade in the game. That is the main reason I am against it at this time. If there was some way to get around this. . .(maybe by lowering the extremely high cost of games right now) then I'd be all for it. Also, another issue with DD is that they're charging the exact same amount as full retail discs. Ignoring the current "going rate" for how much someone could get the game online from ebay or even used from Gamespot.Brownesque

Can you say extremeist? You are pretty much are saying that either we should be screwed by a digital distribution monopoly or the developers should be screwed by having the millions of dollars put in to the games being for nothing. Either way you are going to see a massive decrease in the number of developers.

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="JediRiff"]

I also disagree. I understand the motivation behind it, its just that I prefer having a physical copy in my possession. I prefer tangible things to virtual things, which when you get right down to it, DLC and DD are nothing more than that.

jhcho2

Until your hard drive breaks, whereby you are toast.

789shadow