Digital Distribution Is Far Better Than A Disk

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

youre not helping your own cause... that means that people will HAVE to download 10-50gig games.... good luck waiting for that

ogvampire

I was waiting for that one. Technology advances, unlike in your little conservatist mind where everything should be status quo. Ever heard of optic fiber? It's already mainstream in Japan. They get 150mbps.

you mean fiber optics? yeah, i heard about it....

have you forgottent that your internet connection is limited by the server that you are downloading from... when a game releases and hundreds of thousands of people will be downloading, does it not cross your mind that it will take ALOT longer?

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

Like I said, SSD technology advances much faster than disk technology. Why don't you go Google the speeds of SSD and compare them to disks? It's not even comparable.

Hanass

um... we're talking about downloading games... what does the speed of the HDD have to do with that?

Nothing, they the download time will be the same because the Internet will be faster. You brought this one up.

not when a hundred thousand other people are trying to download at the same time

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

I was waiting for that one. Technology advances, unlike in your little conservatist mind where everything should be status quo. Ever heard of optic fiber? It's already mainstream in Japan. They get 150mbps.

HuusAsking

you mean fiber optics? yeah, i heard about it....

have you forgottent that your internet connection is limited by the server that you are downloading from... when a game releases and hundreds of thousands of people will be downloading, does it not cross your mind that it will take ALOT longer?

we're talking about consoles here

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="swazidoughman"]

you'r both speaking complete nonsense.

You're talking about how DD wont be too bad because of advances in tech, which is true.

But your acting as if large games will take forever to load off BD as if they will be running on the same tech as today.

Also, modern consoles have hard drives anyway.

Hanass

im not speaking nonsense... what i bolded is one of the points i have been trying to make

But SSD's will always be faster.

[QUOTE="falconclan"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

Because you didn't really prove me wrong at all.

You say "it's going to take a million years to download", but technology advances fast, so you're wrong.

You say "my game doesn't take 5 minutes to load!", but in the future they will once the games start becoming 50GB large.

Hanass

Like I said (I think it's the 5th time?), go look up SSD speeds and compare them to disk speeds. They will NEVER catch up.

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

um... we're talking about downloading games... what does the speed of the HDD have to do with that?

ogvampire

Nothing, they the download time will be the same because the Internet will be faster. You brought this one up.

not when a hundred thousand other people are trying to download at the same time

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

im not speaking nonsense... what i bolded is one of the points i have been trying to make

falconclan

But SSD's will always be faster.

OK then, whatever you say. If you prefer having a plastic box over not having to wait minutes for your game to load, then I can't stop you.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

Nothing, they the download time will be the same because the Internet will be faster. You brought this one up.

HuusAsking

not when a hundred thousand other people are trying to download at the same time

we're talking about consoles here

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

um... we're talking about downloading games... what does the speed of the HDD have to do with that?

ogvampire

Nothing, they the download time will be the same because the Internet will be faster. You brought this one up.

not when a hundred thousand other people are trying to download at the same time

When that many people are downloading, then it would make sense to use peer-to-peer downloading. The more people, the faster the download will be.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

not when a hundred thousand other people are trying to download at the same time

ogvampire

we're talking about consoles here

And why wouldn't it work for consoles? They are mini-PC's after all.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

not when a hundred thousand other people are trying to download at the same time

ogvampire

we're talking about consoles here

Consoles can bit torrent.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]If those people each download a different piece and then each get the rest of the pieces off each other, then the server doesn't stay bogged down for long. It's how technologies like BitTorrent work.swazidoughman

we're talking about consoles here

Consoles can bit torrent.

so why dont they do that now?

[QUOTE="swazidoughman"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

we're talking about consoles here

ogvampire

Consoles can bit torrent.

so why dont they do that now?

Because there aren't millions of people who use DD on consoles.

[QUOTE="swazidoughman"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

we're talking about consoles here

ogvampire

Consoles can bit torrent.

so why dont they do that now?

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="swazidoughman"]

Consoles can bit torrent.

Hanass

so why dont they do that now?

Because there aren't millions of people who use DD on consoles.

yet there are millions of people on XBL and PSN... an online service

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="swazidoughman"]

Consoles can bit torrent.

HuusAsking

so why dont they do that now?

steam? not crazy about steam... not sure how a DD copy of CoD:WaW is the same price as the retail copy... me no like that

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

so why dont they do that now?

ogvampire

Because there aren't millions of people who use DD on consoles.

yet there are millions of people on XBL and PSN... an online service

But they're not downloading anything. Plus, XBL and PSN do use peer to peer servers, but not for downloading stuff, just for playing online.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

Because there aren't millions of people who use DD on consoles.

Hanass

yet there are millions of people on XBL and PSN... an online service

But they're not downloading anything. Plus, XBL and PSN do use peer to peer servers, but not for downloading stuff, just for playing online.

they technically are when they are playing online

also, arent most servers on PSN are not peer-to-peer

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yet there are millions of people on XBL and PSN... an online service

ogvampire

But they're not downloading anything. Plus, XBL and PSN do use peer to peer servers, but not for downloading stuff, just for playing online.

they technically are when they are playing online

also, arent most servers on PSN are not peer-to-peer

Yeah, I know that PSN has a few dedicated servers. But what's the point of telling me all of this?

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

Because there aren't millions of people who use DD on consoles.

Hanass

yet there are millions of people on XBL and PSN... an online service

But they're not downloading anything. Plus, XBL and PSN do use peer to peer servers, but not for downloading stuff, just for playing online.

If digital distribution ever replaces physical media can you imagine what would happen to those "show us your collection" threads? It would just be people posting screenshots of their monitor or television... What about the idea of building a library/collection of games where one can stand back and appreciate or admire? **POOOF** An ancient hobby long forgotten in the future. I don't mind digital distribution. As long as they never stop the distribution of physical media, I'm all for it.KhanhAgE

Books, thats all I need to say. Books. They exist in digital form, but people still prefer paper books, and books obviously still exist in said form.

And this is something I would actually prefer on a screen, I have a hard time reading a book, but no trouble reading things on the computer, dont ask why cause I don't know.

Physical form will exist as long as I live, and frankly I don't care if my kids have hard copies.

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yet there are millions of people on XBL and PSN... an online service

ogvampire

But they're not downloading anything. Plus, XBL and PSN do use peer to peer servers, but not for downloading stuff, just for playing online.

they technically are when they are playing online

also, arent most servers on PSN are not peer-to-peer

[QUOTE="KhanhAgE"]If digital distribution ever replaces physical media can you imagine what would happen to those "show us your collection" threads? It would just be people posting screenshots of their monitor or television... What about the idea of building a library/collection of games where one can stand back and appreciate or admire? **POOOF** An ancient hobby long forgotten in the future. I don't mind digital distribution. As long as they never stop the distribution of physical media, I'm all for it.falconclan

Books, thats all I need to say. Books. They exist in digital form, but people still prefer paper books, and books obviously still exist in said form.

And this is something I would actually prefer on a screen, I have a hard time reading a book, but no trouble reading things on the computer, dont ask why cause I don't know.

Physical form will exist as long as I live, and frankly I don't care if my kids have hard copies.

negatives:

1) a lot times they are over-priced claiming thay are charging us extra "for the 24/7 convenience"

2) no hard copy of the software means no sharing with friends :(

besides these two points i like digital distribution

[QUOTE="Shhadow_Viper"][QUOTE="Brownesque"] Okay. So your good is effectively worthless and the service of making the game has value.Brownesque

In case you're not following, your good is worth nothing inherently, it is only worth something artificially as a result of the legal implications of free distribution/copying and the existing system of distribution artificially manufacturing scarcity and artificially bloating the cost for no good reason. You're proposing that we pay the people who provide the actual service less in order to sustain the character of the system, or that we pay them nothing at all. I suggest that there is no reason to do this when we can toss the system out the window in favor of one that gives the service providers the capital they need to grow and continue to be industrious and one that gives the end-user the lowest possible cost for the good AND the service as a result. And you tell me I do not understand capitalism.

No.. New game smell.. nuff said.

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]

[QUOTE="Shhadow_Viper"]But only the good itself has value to me the consumer, the work itself is not what I am paying for, that's what the company pays for. It seems you do not understand capitalism. Shhadow_Viper

In case you're not following, your good is worth nothing inherently, it is only worth something artificially as a result of the legal implications of free distribution/copying and the existing system of distribution artificially manufacturing scarcity and artificially bloating the cost for no good reason. You're proposing that we pay the people who provide the actual service less in order to sustain the character of the system, or that we pay them nothing at all. I suggest that there is no reason to do this when we can toss the system out the window in favor of one that gives the service providers the capital they need to grow and continue to be industrious and one that gives the end-user the lowest possible cost for the good AND the service as a result. And you tell me I do not understand capitalism.

I like having a disc. If I do not get a disc then I would like the option to be able to download the game then store it on a disc.

The only time I buy games without a disc is when they are really cheap.

negatives:

1) a lot times they are over-priced claiming thay are charging us extra "for the 24/7 convenience"

2) no hard copy of the software means no sharing with friends :(

besides these two points i like digital distribution

omarguy01

Well you forgot digital distrubtion is a complete monopoly in itself thus the price of the games does not go down unless sony or MS want it to. Like ps1 classics are too **** expensive. They should be $1 or $2 maybe $3 at most. There is no need for $10 ps1 game.

[QUOTE="falconclan"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

But SSD's will always be faster.

Hanass

OK then, whatever you say. If you prefer having a plastic box over not having to wait minutes for your game to load, then I can't stop you.

I'll take a few seconds for a game to load over a few hours for a game to download.

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="falconclan"] So? They can stay faster, I'll take my 5 second load times for a real copy. Sorry brah, you aren't doing a very good job at showing the superiority of DD. You just keep saying "TEH TECH IT IMPROVES AND THEN GAMES! NO LOAD TIMES LULZ... SSD!".

Burning-Sludge

OK then, whatever you say. If you prefer having a plastic box over not having to wait minutes for your game to load, then I can't stop you.

I'll take a few seconds for a game to load over a few hours for a game to download.

Nah i'd never have enough space on my harddrive and i;m not big on paying more to get more space to play games. As of now I play with a 20gig 360 harddrive and its working fine thanks to no DD.

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="falconclan"] So? They can stay faster, I'll take my 5 second load times for a real copy. Sorry brah, you aren't doing a very good job at showing the superiority of DD. You just keep saying "TEH TECH IT IMPROVES AND THEN GAMES! NO LOAD TIMES LULZ... SSD!".

Burning-Sludge

OK then, whatever you say. If you prefer having a plastic box over not having to wait minutes for your game to load, then I can't stop you.

I'll take a few seconds for a game to load over a few hours for a game to download.

Those "seconds" will become minutes once games start becoming very large. I'm guessing you wouldn't mind waiting 10 minutes for a game to load by then?

[QUOTE="Burning-Sludge"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

OK then, whatever you say. If you prefer having a plastic box over not having to wait minutes for your game to load, then I can't stop you.

HuusAsking

I'll take a few seconds for a game to load over a few hours for a game to download.

That is better than hitting my monthly bandwidth cap for every one game I download, don't you agree?

[QUOTE="Burning-Sludge"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

OK then, whatever you say. If you prefer having a plastic box over not having to wait minutes for your game to load, then I can't stop you.

Hanass

I'll take a few seconds for a game to load over a few hours for a game to download.

Those "seconds" will become minutes once games start becoming very large. I'm guessing you wouldn't mind waiting 10 minutes for a game to load by then?

Then the "hours" will become days when you download the said game.

DD sucks. If your Hard Drive goes corrupt, you lose it like "that". Can you bring a DD game over to friends house to play? No. Do you get the satisfation of buying something in the box? No. Just wait 24 hours for a download, and there, you just wasted five times more space then you would with a disc.Also, Blu-rays don't scratch.enterawesome

"If your Hard Drive goes corrupt, you lose it like "that"

LOL, what?!?!?

I've lost digital downloaded games on both my wii and 360 for one reason or another and it took only a couple minutes to replace them! All these DD games are purcashed on an account so if you lose these games you can simply redownload them in a sec as the system knows you already bought it!

HOWEVER, will they replace a DISC if its stolen, damagedor lost? NOPE! And if by some stranged wonderous miracle they did it would probably involve calling them up, answering a ton of question, mailing stuff back and forth, ect, ect!

"Can you bring a DD game over to friends house to play?"

Why not? If I want to play an XBL arcade game at my freinds house I simply pop out my HDD and bring it with me! And with the wii I can just unplug the system and carry it along (since ninty still doesnt have a HDD :( )

"Just wait 24 hours for a download"

Out of all my downloads on LIVE the longest I think I've had to wait was MAYBE 20 minutes! The wii is alot slower but still never even came close to 30mins!

"Also, Blu-rays don't scratch"

Yet they can still crack and get damaged in other ways!

-Can't be sold later down the road if it sucks, which is often the case.

-DRM is lame. We know when things go 100% digital, that the companies are gonna slap the cuffs on us.

-Steam has got it right, but I still buy the boxed product if it's available. Steam didn't get it right in the beginning.

-Digital Distribution shouldn't be as costly as a retail product, or even more in some cases. That's ridiculous. Steam has had some overpriced releases, but luckily, they balance it out with sales.

I'll take retail. And retail keeps more jobs, too.

BioShockOwnz

economically, this is a dangerous statement to make. you don't hold back efficiency becuase of a perceived loss of jobs. increased efficiency equals less jobs needed to perform a task- which equals lower costs for the business which will be eventually transferred to the customer (if some companies won't, others will take the opportunity to take their market share).

this transfer to the customer will equal the customer having more money in their pocket that they can spend elsewhere and thus, economic growth occurs. more jobs will be created to satify the demand of whatever else these consumers want to do with thier new dollars. the total amount of jobs will at the very least go back to the original state plus the whole economy will be producing more goods and services.

DD will eventually do this. the costs will eventually get transferred to us (you might not notice the price going down, but you'll see it stay steady in times of inflation at the very least).

th moral of the story is you don't hold back inocation just because it might cut some jobs. the jobs will come back and society will be better for it.

[QUOTE="omarguy01"]

negatives:

1) a lot times they are over-priced claiming thay are charging us extra "for the 24/7 convenience"

2) no hard copy of the software means no sharing with friends :(

besides these two points i like digital distribution

Sonwhy

Well you forgot digital distrubtion is a complete monopoly in itself thus the price of the games does not go down unless sony or MS want it to. Like ps1 classics are too **** expensive. They should be $1 or $2 maybe $3 at most. There is no need for $10 ps1 game.

You should check out Ninty's virtual console they charge more than $3 for a NES game, lol!

How can we recover our DL'd games if our system breaks (Sony/Microsoft will probaly be too greedy to let use download twice)CannedWorms

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]How can we recover our DL'd games if our system breaks (Sony/Microsoft will probaly be too greedy to let use download twice)WWIAB

-Digital Distribution shouldn't be as costly as a retail product, or even more in some cases. That's ridiculous. Steam has had some overpriced releases, but luckily, they balance it out with sales.

BioShockOwnz

Games on disc's shouldnt be as expensive as games on cartridges by that logic, as they are much cheaper to make right? Yet I remember PS1 games going for the same price's as N64 games back in the day and nobody complained!

Also, Blu-rays don't scratch.enterawesome

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

-Digital Distribution shouldn't be as costly as a retail product, or even more in some cases. That's ridiculous. Steam has had some overpriced releases, but luckily, they balance it out with sales.

kenakuma

Games on disc's shouldnt be as expensive as games on cartridges by that logic, as they are much cheaper to make right? Yet I remember PS1 games going for the same price's as N64 games back in the day and nobody complained!

[QUOTE="kenakuma"]

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

-Digital Distribution shouldn't be as costly as a retail product, or even more in some cases. That's ridiculous. Steam has had some overpriced releases, but luckily, they balance it out with sales.

HuusAsking

Games on disc's shouldnt be as expensive as games on cartridges by that logic, as they are much cheaper to make right? Yet I remember PS1 games going for the same price's as N64 games back in the day and nobody complained!

FF7 being multi-disc was still cheaper to make than an N64 cartridge! And I never remember paying more than $50 for any N64 game, EVER!

And why did GC games cost the same new as old schoolcartridges? I remember paying $50 for almost every GC game I bought brand new!

I am an international man and travel a lot therefore. One can say that I suffer from globalisation. I would greatly appreciate if digital distribution made my life easier and more portable. Carrying around a load of game cases and watching them get scratched, cracked and broken pains me. I want to have the option of of being able to download all games available for a platform. Physical media can keep on existing, I just wish for digital distribution to become just as prominent as physical media or to at least achieve a significant presence.

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

[QUOTE="hayato_"]

I agree at some point the Digital Distribution will become far better than a disk.

At some point. (Used this before)

Maybe in the year 3000 ?

falconclan

It's already better than disks on the PC, so I don't think it'll be too far off for the consoles. You guys are already getting a surge of games through your online shops, and that'll probably have an even greater influence next gen.

I believe the best idea would be downloads if you want to, if everyone is so worried about their disks breaking I say allow people to download their games to their disks. I personally take care of my things and don't have to worry about them breaking.

Call me old fashioned, but I like being able to hold something.

DD also allows alot more sales and specials to go on without the distributor worrying about losing money, not only that but they also make games avaliable for a much greater audience that may have to wait or don't get the games at all. It works out for us the consumer alot.