Digital Foundry: It's Too Late For PS4 NEO

@GhostHawk196: thats your personal opinion and doesn't equate to what everyone else is thinking i would buy a Scorpio over a Gaming rig Because Scorpio will still be cheaper than buying a rig at the same spec.

You lot seem to forget that for most people cost is a really important factor and with the ability to trade pre-owned games even that aspect can be cheaper than a gaming rig.

you are under the illusion that everyone is so well off it's actually a viable choice to chose a gaming rig over a Scorpio vut the reality is completely different.

well games on PC can be gotten a lot cheaper too, you don't need to pay for online either

I remember another situation like this....It was called PS2 vs Xbox, lol how did that turn out?

lems aren't too bright and neither is DF in that case, they should stick to analyzing game performance and stop tying to being a industry opinion on gaming as they are just looking for clicks with this wet dream for xbox fans.

DF is right about one thing, it's too late! But they are betting on the wrong horse. Facts: It took PS3 an entire generation to catch to 360 when MS's had a 1 year head start even tho MS only had Halo/Forza/Gears as their high profile franchises/games to keep it afloat.

lol what exactly is MS going to be able to do with Scorpio to change the market with a split base where all their high profile games are also available on PC and Sony has a year head start with their new upgrade plus a depth of high profile Sony only games that MS can't touch?

Again this situation = PS2 vs original xbox lol...but lems keep thinking MS releasing a more powerful multiplat box is going to change anything is indeed a wet dream. We already saw that blueprint as well as the result.

@charizard1605:

It would be interesting to see if the Scorpio effects Xbox One sales in any good way. Or the Neo for that matter. That would answer the question about whether or not power equals more sales. Or maybe they'll both flop. I'm hoping it does so Sony and Microsoft don't ever try to pull this crap off again.

PS2 had a two year head start and Xbox was a brand new console. MS royally fucked up this gen and there is no coming back though.

Your PS2 v OG Xbox comparison is bollocks.

The PS2 was released roughly a year and a half before the OG Xbox, and was released on a massive wave of hype following the industry changing PS1, and had sold about 15millions by time the Xbox was released. Where Microsoft were releasing their first console and most people hadn't heard of it upon release and those who had were sceptical about it.

The PS3 taking a whole generation to catch up with the 360 says more for how well 360 did in comparison to the PS3.

Odd how Sony is so quiet with Neo not too far off. I expect it to not make a huge splash upon release, and Scorpio will make it irrelevant. Seems Sony must be in their back offices trying to figure out a plan since MS pushed their sh*t by surprise with Scorpio.

The same thing they did at E3, lol GAMES!

It's like you guys forget these are "game" consoles. Power alone has NEVER won a console generation, even Wii proved that against PS3 and 360. The people who thought gamers skipped out on xbone simply because of a slight power disadvantage are in for a huge shock. Lems never learn.

@thedork_knight said:

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@GoldenElementXL said:

@zeeshanhaider said:

@quadknight said:

@Shewgenja said:

@GoldenElementXL: screw you asshole. I have been pro pc from day one. Ive been pc gaming since the 90s. Do you really want my ugly to come out? This is how you get it.

I'm with you bro. I'm a PC gamer as well, been gaming on PC since the mid-90s and will probably wreck most of the "hermits" in this thread at UT or Quake 3 Arena. People here act like you can't support Sony and be a PC gamer but at the same time you have rabid lems in SW claiming to be PC gamers.

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That's rich. I don't see why any of you are laughing considering that the only people "hiding behind PC" are the ones that wouldn't have any games at all without it. Sit down. The adults are talking.

@Shewgenja said:

@thedork_knight said:

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@GoldenElementXL said:

@zeeshanhaider said:

@quadknight said:

I'm with you bro. I'm a PC gamer as well, been gaming on PC since the mid-90s and will probably wreck most of the "hermits" in this thread at UT or Quake 3 Arena. People here act like you can't support Sony and be a PC gamer but at the same time you have rabid lems in SW claiming to be PC gamers.

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The adults are talking.

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Its nice to see Microsoft finally making the most powerful console again. Its the whole reason i got an xbox to begin with since it completely destroyed the ps2 in graphics. Same goes with the xbox 360, virtually every game looked and ran better.

I'm not saying i'd buy one since current day PC gaming is years ahead of console gaming, but at least it wouldn't be embarassing to own an xbox again.

@Shewgenja said:

@thedork_knight said:

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Precisely the kind of reaction I'd expect from someone lacking the mental faculties to run an HDMI cord from their PC to TV and paying $60 a year for the luxury of playing a relegated library online.

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I don't remember resolution been a big deal last gen, i don't even think that many xbox gamers cared. Sony fanboys cared more about this gen then we ever did, so you guys kind of deserve blowback for that hate you guys spread on the internet.

How exactly will Sony make it irrelevant? MS is pushing for 4K visuals thats not even the standard for PC gamers? MS is pushing back hard and its great to see.. They already have best controllers, best online experience, best OS experience, probably the best hardware next year? Its going to be a competitive fight next year.

Edit just read what you wrote my mistake, anyway that rant was for other people.

You don't? Because, let me tell you, all those Lens of Truth and Digital Foundry threads from last gen are precisely what led to the Resolution Wars when this gen began.

Remember the "It might not be quite as powerful, but it plays cross platform games better" arguments? Is it starting to register?

I was on xbox forums last gen and on xbox 360 for 8 years, i never ever talked about Sony PS3 resolution issues. And to be honest i never knew there was that big issue till the xbox one vs PS4 debates start happening, I never heard one of my friends on xbox live talk about it. When some of my xbox friends bought the PS3 they did so for its first party line up and its free multiplayer.

Ahh, see, you should have gone to PS3 oriented forums then. You would have seen it all the time.

My point is xbox fans did not care about the differences and it was you guys this gen who brought it up and used it as a tactic to attack xbox one. If you see more xbox gamers talking about resolution differences when Scorpio arrives it your own fault.

My point is, you're absolutely wrong. The cross-plat wars are not some grand figment of our collective imaginations. In fact, no other Lem will even come to your defense on this subject because they too will be the laughing stock of System wars for trying to leverage this narrative.

In fact, said wars were the precursor to the "Are western developers better than Japanese developers?" schtick as well.

Sony's brand and market share is stronger, Microsoft won't even remotely come close to playing catch up unless they pour some exclusive killer apps.

Which they won't, because whatever games Scorpio will have are going to be inferior and worthless the moment they will inevitably share release with PC.

I think that is lost on the lemmings at the moment. Even in terms of current graphics cards, 6TFlops isn't a whole hell of a lot of power. By this time next year, 6TFlop graphics cards will be budget-PC-gamer tier. While they may or may not have a serious power advantage over the PS4 and Neo at that point, are we really going to care?

Another E3 will come and go. Another year for Sony to wreck people's minds with exclusives. Another year into the VR wars where either the PS4 is an established player in a growing segment or the writing is truly on the wall for where VR gaming is going to go if it is on its way out. Another Playstation Experience will be behind us as well. Developers will have the hang of using Neo. HUGE games for the Playstation fanbase like Final Fantasy XV, Horizon, Gran Turismo, Last Guardian, God of War IV, and many others will actually be sitting on store shelves and pushing hardware sales.

All of these things will come to pass while, just like previous years with promises like cloud power or dx12 or consumer friendly backwards compatiblity, the Lems will be pimping their highest quality pixels ever on an increasingly deaf audience. While the XBone's library of exclusives stands still, another year will pass us by. It's all really kind of silly.

Well i never claimed there wasn't cases like those on the cow side.

Here or are you talking about this thread because this thread has being dead for 40 days,and was revive today.

Yes but what tell you it will be the same.? Also the 7790 is another chapter on that line,the rebrand of the 7790 is the 260X,the rebrand on the 7850 is the R265,the 7770 is the 250X,the 7870 is the R270 and so on.

The 7790 is just another model inside the 7xxx line.

What PC games are coming to xbox.? Any game the xbox one can't run it would probably not be on Scorpio as MS claimed all games will work across both models.

Come on man this is 100% dishonest why don't you 2 claim better that you also game on PC,but defend the PS4 all day and they claim you are PC gamers is down right dishonest,and just like i slam lemmings who do it i must point my finger to you 2,i also game on PC but i am not a PC gamers,and i have being gaming on PC since the 90's to.

@ronvalencia said:

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia: Give me a source on third Vega chip.

3rd Vega/Greenland as an IGP.

Whole new SoC v15 architecture and related 4096 SP Greenland.

Year 2016 AMD SKUs are not enough for Scorpio, Xbox One.5 would be the result if MS used this year's IP refresh e.g. NEO indicates .5 update result.

This shit is what really let me mouth open @techhog89 he is using a 64 CU GPU and a 16 core CPU and claim some how that there is a 3rd option that GPU will be as fart from Scorpio as a top of the line PC is not from Neo.

@ronvalencia stop using hardware which you know doesn't represent Scorpio at all just because something exist or is planed doesn't mean it will be there for Scorpio.

scorpio is based i am sure on Polaris 10,since the stock models already is basically 6TF,i don't see why MS will wait 1 year to get something more expensive and water it down to 6TF when they can have it now,the true is there is a huge chance is RX480 as well,and instead of 6TF GPU is more a 6TF system including CPU and accounting all.

I know you will quote Phil and every one with 100 charts fact is MS has address Scorpio as a 6TF system at times rather than a system with 6TF GPU,so the signal is mixed and it would not be the first time they water down specs before release.

Didn't you know only xbox fanboys can claim to be hermits and fanboy for everything that is xbox and not be hiding behind PC!

It's like a system wars rule now...you guys didn't read the rule? A Playstaton fan saying they are a PC gamer is not allowed duh only xbox fanboys.

lol it's funny that you don're realize how hard your argument solidifies what I already posted.

It's funny because you don't seem to understand that PS3 was OUTSELLING 360 WW virtually every year and it still took an entire generation to TIE 360 at the end of the generation....xbone hasn't even won a single year since the gen started LMAO.

The PS4 base = the Neo base and the xbone base = the Scorpio base. No matter how powerful the Scorpio is it's going to start off with a 20 -25 mil base vs a 45 - 50 mil base, a 25 to 30 mil deficit against PS Neo.

Scorpio is actually in a worse position against Neo then the original xbox was against PS2 game wise and market power wise and original xbox actually had exclusives!

My gripe with that whole argument is that when someone doesn't say anything good about any other platform but the XBox, they have no room to talk. I participate in threads about the WiiU. I participate in PC gaming threads. I participate in PS4 threads, and yes, I do throw salt in the Xbox threads.

The thing that these lemmings desperately want to dismiss is that, for me and many other posters in this forum, the beef with the XBox One has little to do with the label on the box and everything to do with what is in the box and the game library for it. As if to say, there was never anything that MS could have done to win us this generation. And, though that may absolutely be true for most of the tried and true cows on this forum, that is not the case for me.

I have gone into exhaustive detail and listed out things that XBox could do to win me back. I've jumped the gun and been wowed by some of their tech demos and announcements. Hell, I was initially excited when I heard about the Scorpio even. However, none of that matters. I'm just a cow hiding behind my gaming PC because for the life of me, I can't figure out how anyone with a lick of sense would run out and buy a $300 box, drop $60 to connect it to the internet and go on forums claiming this is the frosting of the cake in the gaming world while at least if I shelled out for a $100 ludicrous luxury HDMI cable and ran it from my pc to my TV I'd at least be able to play No Man's Sky.

The gloves are off. I thought the fanboyism would kind of chill out after the announcement that the plastic box of wonders would never ever ever ever get an exclusive game again. I thought we could just let the lemmings be silly, but they're not content. If they want some of me, they're gonna get some of me. Let's talk about who is hiding behind PC gaming. Let's take it there. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one console that is 100% replaceable by PC and it's not Nintendo's or Sony's fault.. nor their fans. These people are in free fall for a bumpkin-class Steambox and they are gonna learn today.

No brother, I'm going to tell you what is the most damning and hypocritical thing about these xbox fanboys......THIS IS IMPORTANT

They have ALL claimed this generation (Because PS4 was more powerful than xbone) that if you want power "get a PC!" Then they go on to say how they are such PC gamers!

NOW, they are full steam ahead hyping Scorpio to the point of raging but only to be playing the same games available on PC but less and are saying it's the best thing ever because of what?...power!? What happened to, "if you want power get PC"? Haha Gottem! FAKEBOYS.

True Playstation gamers forget that Valve even said themselves only 34% of people who game with Steam play games at 1080p and 4% at 4K.

If the majority of PC gamers don't even upgrade their hardware. Why do PS4 fanboys believe console gamers will upgrade to PC instead of the Scorpio?

Neo is still going to be the only console with Sony exclusives tho, so there's that.

Pretty big selling point to me.

I think they still have a chance to change it around in their favor, just lower the price to something even cheaper than the scorpio, maybe bundle a couple of games.

They're certainly not out of the running just yet, MS doesn't even have exclusives anymore.

VR is cool. You can do a lot of stuff with it, it works far better than other alternative ways of playing 'big thing' in video game culture that came and went (Wii motion controls, Kinect).

For example, you can make some fucking amazing retro collections, i recall a concept (iirc) video of an arcade room in VR; imagine exploring that arcade room and simply going to your arcade cabinet and then playing that arcade game.

I can ride with this argument, it's much better than most xbox fans for sure.

Consoles are more mainstream than PC and that's a fact due to exposure and name brand alone I can see Scorpio doing big things over mid level PC simply because of price power ratio. This is where MS "could" nail their nitch for the Scorpio name, however price is EVERYTHING in that respect.

Power alone won't win MS any cookies, they need to be VERY competitively close to what Neo is priced at with minimum $50 range and they can claim some market. If, however, they market it as a premium piece of hardware with a premium price they will actually push people looking for something in that range of power to looking at PC gaming when they never would have considered it before.

No matter what will happen They will not be able to break Sony's stronghold on the market, but they could help to build their brand up from where it has fallen.

Have you ever checked to see if you have Hypergraphia? http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hypergraphia Serious question?

Bwahahahahaha!!!!! You two are pathetic!

Cowjenga in full meltdown mode.

Nah. When I start quoting Throwdown lyrics, then I am having a meltdown.

I can agree with that for the most part. If the xbox Scorpio is above 500+ or more then 600 dollars, lot of gamers may be turned off by that price at launch. If its priced at 500 dollars. Sony will have hard time convincing neutral gamers to stay with Playstation.

Playstation will always be competitive it genuinely has more of a global appeal. Still think the Scorpio will do far better then the xbox one sales at launch if the price is right.

0 points for that. Windows 10 is a Microsoft software OS and the Windows 10 store on Windows 10 they own. MS games are still exclusive. Games are not exclusives if they end up on PS4 or on a rival store app on PC.

You are pissing off the talking points off with this comment.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/eurogamer-rdr-360-vs-ps3-face-off-360-wins-27326005/

You weren't here thread like this ^^ were the order of the day there are some familiar faces on that thread..lol

Oh and do you want to know what was the gap resolution wise.?

720p vs 640p basically a totally minuscule gap,much smaller than 720p vs 900p,900p vs 1080p or 1080p vs 720p.

Yet last gen lemmings saw the difference,this gen some how they can't,the problem is you weren't here.....

jimmypsn

Why did Crytek lie and say the two look identical. 360 is much better.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/crysis-2-runs-at-higher-resolution-on-360-than-on--27590318/?page=1

Another one...lol

Want to know what make the 360 version much better.?

1140x720 =820800 Pixels Xbox 360.

1024x720p =737,280 PS3...

Gap 83,520....pixels. < This is what make the xbox 360 version so much better...lol

2,073,600 pixels 1080p.

1,440,000 pixels 900p.

Most common gap between XBO and PS4 ^^..

633,600 Gap in pixels..

This ^^ is 7 times bigger than the gap between the PS3 and 360 yet some how lemms can't see it this gen.

Oh and i am not comparing 720p games vs 1080p games like COD ghost,the gap on those games is more than 1 million pixels which is like 12 times the difference between PS3 and xbox 360 in Crysis 2.

This ^^^ is why lemms get so punish by cows,this is why resolution is a big deal now because for the last 2 generations resolution even small gaps was something big for lemmings,Karma surely is a bitch and has come back to byte lemms on their ass.

lol, this reasoning has always been hilarious.

If I can get said game on another system it's not an exclusive, sorry m8.

I hope so, no one says both Neo and Scorpio can't be successful. A lot of folk are just thinking in a much too linear perspective.

There are 2 markets to be exploited here; people who play most mainstream games and love power but don't want to deal with PC and people who like the diverse library of games sony systems bring but want better performance than PS4.

Both could end up doing very well to be honest depending on the type of gamer you are and how MS decided to price Scorpio.

Its more then enough power for 4K at med/to high settings. They said the console has 324gb/s of bandwidth. I remember reading last year, said by a dev the memory configuration was the main reason the xbox was having problems running games at 1080p . So if you remove that barrier and have 12 gigs of GDDR5 this would equate to 324gb/s of bandwidth hitting 4K should be know problem.

Scorpio is unlikely to be hitting 4k and 60fps at ultra settings, but mid/high is still possible looking at the specs we know of right now.

Its not rival system. MS is not competition with PC.. Are you saying buying games from a MS store on PC and playing those game online and using xbox live for that is meaningless. Who you buying the game from?

I thought lems were Xbox fanboys, and I already stated I am on pc. Part of the reason I did not get a console this gen was because they could not play the games I wanted at the same resolution, graphical settings, or performance levels of my pc. So for the LOL GAMES to be important, they need to be able to run well for me. So yes, I am still wondering how they will combat.

The initial advantage the PS4 had over the X1 was the price. The X1 launched for $100 more than the PS4, despite the PS4 being more powerful. While the Scorpio is more powerful, it will most likely cost at least $100 more than the Neo.

R. Leadbetter article?

Yeah, Leadbetter, lol. That guy trolling from the top!

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Meh. I never cared for these .5 updated consoles either way, which I stated over a year ago.

Lucky for you what you have is much simple to identify.

Is call denial...lol

So you arrived here in 2013 with the new gen and you apparently think that every one here arrived in 2013,dude have you see my join date.? Or others even older than me.?

For the past generations lemmings have ride the superior version,i already quote several old post and difference between 1024 x 720 vs 1140 x 720p were consider much better resolution here...lol

Lemming don't care about resolution now (until next year) because the xbox one has being destroy resolution wise.

MS own windows but windows is an open platform,no one making games on windows pay MS shit,is not exclusive and the definition of exclusive here was if it was on more than 1 console is not exclusive and that include consoles without the own brand.

So if you want to act as if those games were exclusive be my guess worse for you since that mean TLOU is also an exclusive which has 95% on meta,so that make 4 games over 90% on PS4 the xbox one has non.

Yes they are even inside windows MS store has to compete with steam as well,with origin and several others.

The point here is why would any one need an xbox if i can get Gears 4 on PC.? Last gen if you wanted Gears 3 yeah get a 360 loser because there was no other way.

That is call a selling point and the xbox just loss its selling point.

Who really cares about power anyway.

On the topic on here:Graphics vs Gameplay..... Gameplay was the most important thing. As a soley console gamer the best games I have played graphically. Ryse/Driveclub and The Order were all duds. 5/10 games

The average person doesn't sit there counting pixels on the screen. I know I don't. Just winy internet crybabies do that.

It doesn't matter at all the the Neo will be less powerful than the Scorpio. It will sell more.

fps on the other hand affects the gameplay