Digital Foundry: It's Too Late For PS4 NEO

$499 vs $399 is NOT $300 cheaper but nice try. Your reading comprehension == your math skills

You sad little cow Japan is the sole reason PS3 even caought up 8 years later. 10M - 1M is big gap but MS proved 1 thing, it didn't need Japan. It sold extremely well without it.

Have to love how you cows went from "PS3 will destroy the 360 1 month after release" to "I'm surprised the PS3 caught up after launching a year later and more expensive" hahahahah you cows are absolutely pathetic.

I created a topic about this a while ago. Basically Microsoft keeps advertising peak/ theoretical performance not the real performance. Like they did with ESRAM and the cloud

I think System Wars overestimates the importance of console power to the average consumer... Price determines what console mom and dad buy for their kids. And at this point Brand Loyalty probably is a huge factor as well

NEO isn't too late. Sure, it eliminates exclusives but IMO, it can't hurt. Those what want it, can get it. Nothing wrong with more choices, and nothing wrong with a little performance bump. If you don't want NEO, don't get it. Nobody is forcing you to.

PS3 outsold the 360 in every territory outside of the US, including Japan, Europe, Canada, and Australia.

@kingtito: Japan isn't the sole reason you the PS3 outsold the 360 you clown. PS3 outsold the 360 in every territory outside the US and UK. If you're going to come back with a rebuttal at least try. PS3 outsold 360 in Canada, Europe, Australia, and all of Asia.

While you lems were celebrating NPD victories and pretending the rest of the world didn't exist PS3 was demolishing the 360 in sales outside the US.

^These guys, lol.

Oh yes it is you loser. 360 outsold the PS3 in 2 out of the 3 biggest territories. They kept the lead up till the start of gen 8 and they did it without Japan.

And yet it took the PS3 7-8 years to finally catch up. Oh but look Japan had 10M+ PS3s while the 360 had 1M+. Sucks going from "going to crush the 360 at launch" to "didn't think it was going to do this well and catch up to the 360 7-8 years later" Keep moving those goal post cow

Yet the 2 biggest territories it didn't. Japan, UK and US were the biggest territories and the 360 outsold the PS3 in 2 out of the 3. Let's not forget the PS3 was coming after the 2 biggest consoles in history and was SUPPOSED to crush the 360. It didn't and it took 7-8 years to finally catch up. That's NOT a win in my book and you can bet Sony didn't think it was either.

@kingtito: "Biggest territories". WTH is that supposed to mean? You saying UK alone is bigger than the whole of Europe? LMAO, you're an idiot.

I know lems don't know Geography but this is ridiculous. UK is a country in Europe that includes many other countries. 360 was only outselling PS3 in two countries and was getting its ass handed to it in the rest of Europe and Asia. So no, 360 was not winning in two out of three territories, it was only winning in NA at best while getting rekt in Europe and Asia.

PS3 did poorly to 2010 for Sony, one of the main reasons why people bought PS3 was because of the bluray player.

The UK alone sold more than the rest of Europe clown. US, Japan and UK sold more consoles period. Unfortunately for you the PS3 ONLY did ok in 1 of those and it sold half of what it's predecessor did. It took the rest of Europe and all the other countries to catch up to a console it was supposed to have smashed. Yeah sucks if you're a cow and had all your hopes pinned to the PS3 prior to launch.

So let me put it this way, 2 out of the 3 biggest console countries the PS3 was outsold in. MS proved that's all you needed to be successful.

You know what else gets the cows all worked up over? That the Xbox brand stole so many fans. Now with 130 million Xbox console sold, it is a big huge dent in the PS brand. It's funny when I watch TV and movies, you always see people playing an Xbox in the background.

The Xbox brand is getting more and more saturated.

Wow,about the same amount the PS1 sold

@kingtito: You are going to have to provide a link to your bullshit. Everyone and their grandma knows that Europe is Sony Land. They sold the most consoles in mainland Europe. UK may have been big for MS but for Sony it was the opposite, they were getting killed in UK but selling a lot in the rest of Europe. Your bullshit is stinking all over this thread dude.

Europe + Asia > US + UK .....and that's how PS3 was able to catch up.

@MonsieurX: lol owned.

@kingtito: Quit lying dude, everyone knows Eurooe was Sony's biggest market last gen and even this gen. It's what has enabled them to outsell the Xbkne almost 2:1 despite the fact the Japanese console market has sunk. LOL @ you for trying to insinuate that UK market is bigger than the rest of Europe combined. Maybe for the 360 (explains why they got beaten lastgen) but certainly not for PS3

Europe isn't a single country cow. I'm talking about the US(1 country), Japan(1 country), and UK(1 country) in which the 360 outsold the PS3 is 2 out of the 3. Proved that's all you really needed. Sony needed 20-30 countries while the 360 needed just 2. Man sucked to be a cow last gen. Please tell me how great you thought the PS3 did again. How you expected the PS3 to dominate.....oh wait that was only BEFORE the launch. After, it became "i'm surprised it caught up by the end of the gen" back tracking you cows did all gen. Hahaha cows and that motto "Just wait"

Both consoles got outsold you clown. Neither console won but the 360 was 2nd while the PS3 was playing catch up for 7-8 years. That must really burn you cow.

@kingtito: Why are you comparing countries instead of continents? Aren't continents bigger than individual countries? You think Sony doesn't divide territories by their continents? You just keep digging yourself into deeper holes. Are you even trying now?

PS3 beat the 360. 360 launched first and still came in last lol. Cry some more you butthurt lem, doesn't change this fact. MS had their asses handed to them lastgen despite launching first at a cheaper price than PS3. They couldn't win because they didn't have Europe or Asia's full support. Your revisionist lemming goggle story isn't how it happened no matter how many times you kick and scream, Facts are facts. The only two countries the 360 outsold the PS3 were US and UK, MS had their butts handed to them outside these two countries.

Resistance has freaking shit from halo which take place in the future and out in space,in other planets,Resistance is based on world war 2 time but instead of nazis you have monsters.

Resistance was a great game and i own it to by the way,huge battles 20 vs 20 make Halo shit maps look small,smooth as butter,and incredibly selection of weapons,the only reason Resistance didn't get a freaking 9 is because it came around Gears of war with its flashy graphics,fact is Gears of war didn't even work properly online it was a lag fest plague by bugs and host advantage issues disconnect,and i also owned Gears by the way 1,2 and 3.

I remember how MS send reviewers $800 dollars worth of Halo 3 crap basically to buy reviewers.

I wonder in what you base your theory of Resistance being average at best...lol wait your biased opinion what more can you use..lol

The 360 shifted to Gears,Halo and Forza mary -go round after 2009,fact is before that date and on the first 3 years the xbox 360 had a barrages of great games,mind you i played Mass effect,bioshock on 360 didn't like Oblivion much,since i wasn't a fan of the series never the less it was a great game.

Fact is the xbox one is not a dust particle compare to what the 360 was,and even the PS3 had higher rated games by its 3rd year than the xbox one has.

That is funny because TLOU sold more than 8 million copies on PS3,more than each chapter of gears ever did,and Uncharted sold more or less what Gears sold,GT 5 sold like Halo 3.

Never the less many bough consoles for exclusives,you can deny it all you want.

You telling people that they can't be objective is like a fu**ing kick on realities face,you can't be objective the fact that you call RFOM a poor mans Halo say it all those 2 fu**ing game the only thing they have in common is being FPS and health regeneration.

Other wise they are as different as they can be from story to attention to detail which Resistance trounce Halo 3 without even trying,i could blast even Chimera cooling hose on their back and they would swing wildly in the air,spilling refrigerant chimera use to keep their bodies cooler enemies would not banish in front of you like Gears or other games you went back to a part you pass and you would still see the bodies of enemies adding to the level of reality,RFOM is basically one of the most hated games on PS3 without there being a reason.

Funny thing is there are way more people with a gaming PC than XBO which is the point here,as sony games are not the ones landing on PC.So again who needs and xbox one.? I don't since i have a PC probably would be getting Gears 4 on PC if it turn out good..

There you have it proof it self that no one need an xbox one any more specially if they got a PC already.

Oh really how it doesn't exist on the real word you blind biased lemming I HAVE A PC WITH A R270 I DON'T NEED AN XBOX ONE ANY MORE TO PLAY XBOX ONES GAMES.

Winner Me..

Loser MS..

I don't have to pay on PC to play online you know..lol

It loss a selling point were ever you have the gust to admit it or not,fact is you wanted Gears of wars you bough a 360 there was no way around it,you want gears of war now you yeah you can get it on PC no need for XB any more.

You should stop arguing bullshit that no one is fu**ing arguing and trying to give a fu**ing wrong significant to everything you read just to make it fit your pathetic arguments,we all know how fu**ing wrong all your arguments about the W5000 were in the end the xbox one wasn't like that GPU and loss in most games vs the 7770.

Oh please Carmack was very clear stop embarrassing your self man if pathetic.

id Software Dev Puzzled By Devs Choosing DX12 Over Vulkan, Claims Xbox One DX12 Is Different Than PC.

Speaking on Twitter, Gneiting said that developers using DirectX 12 over Vulkan ‘literally makes no sense.’ Elaborating on his stance, and in response to some questions, Gneiting pointed out that with Windows 7 forming a major chunk of the PC gaming market, and with DirectX 12 being incompatible with Windows 7, using DirectX in an attempt to have ‘one codebase’ makes no sense, since developers would need to create two separate ones anyway.

He pointed out that the argument that programming for Xbox One and Windows 10 becomes easier by using DirectX 12 is moot too, because DirectX 12 on Windows and on Xbox is very different, necessitating two separate code paths anyway.Read more at

http://gamingbolt.com/id-software-dev-puzzled-by-devs-choosing-dx12-over-vulkan-claims-xbox-one-dx12-is-different-than-pc#BE3T1k13kBLJVBDr.99

He was very clear and the context is very clear as well,you need 2 separate code paths on PC and XBO,what you get with UWP is a way to do cross buys for different platforms using a version specific to each platform.

VR works on PS4 and it has a damn Jaguar so GTFO with those over blow PC spec requirement which are only put in place to sell expensive PC parts and brute force your way rather than using clever programing.

Scorpio doesn't have an i5 PERIOD and is not confirmed to have a damn 8 core Zen CPU either which we don't also know how good or bad it will be,so basically you are assuming with nothing to prove your point,unless you have a LINK from MS stating Zen or an i5 is inside the Scorpio you have nothing.

No it doesn't so quote me.

From what i see there it doesn't say "" The xbox one loss its only selling point.""

Because that's all the 360 needed. Makes your argument is less valid. I know the PS3 needed to add up every other country besides the ones I mentioned to catch up but the 360 only needed 2.

Proof? Yeah didn't think so. Cows love to make the claim without providing proof. Cows also love to forget how long it took the PS3 to catch up. Butthurt is definitely strong with you.

Care to explain "asses handed to them" despite BOTH consoles selling 80+M? How about Sony got there asses handed to them by the successor to a console that managed only 24M AND Sony losing all of it's profits from the PS1 & PS2 consoles. Oh, losing the most market share, taking 7-8 years to catch up to a console that was supposed to be passed up in a few months, coming AFTER the mighty PS2 which sold the most consoles in history AND was bought as a cheap BR player that lacked decent games for 2 years.

Yeah I guess if you look at it that way, it was very impressive.........as a massive failure for Sony. Back track some more cow

As I and many other have stated many many times.....reading comprehension....learn it, live it, love it.
I didn't say RFOM was a copy cat you idiot. I said it was a Sony's poor attempt at trying to get Halo's pot of gold. RFOM is a forgettable franchise and always will be.

You remember? Proof kid of it didn't happen.....oh wait you talking about Sony bribing people for reviews? Yeah, glass houses and all El Tormented

What everyone should base their opinion on El Tormented, I actually PLAYED the game. I know that's a foreign concept for you but one everyone should practice if they're going to criticize a game. Unfortunately for you and most of your bovine friends, it's not one you guys have shown to practice.

And TLOU sales has what to do with what I've said? Oh that's right nothing because TLOU came out late in the PS3s life and not once did I mention anything about the PS3 late in the gen. Damn dude do you seriously have this much of a problem understanding what you read? Serious question.

And many many bought consoles for price, cheap BR player, friends and better multiplats. More so than the small amount of exclusives a console outputs.

I'm always objective El Tormented. You just don't like what I have to say because my opinions don't always match those of reviews. Can't say doesn't match your opinions because you'd actually have to play the games to form an opinion or at least an informed one.

Hahahaha you can't be serious? Is that what the PSX review said of RFOM? We all know you didn't form that one on your own. No one in his right mind would pick anything RFOM related over Halo ahahahaha that's just laughable...seriously I'm laughing at you right now.

It's because it was average to below average at best...you wouldn't know because YOUR opinion is that of the reviews from any of the PS websites. YOU have no opinion.

Yeah lets completely forget that there was a freaking $299 fully functional xbox 360 which need it no hdd and came with a wired controller.And that the price gap between that model and the $499 PS3 was $200..lol

BY the way $300 was the gap between the core vs the premium PS3 back on 2006 early 2007.

The only reason MS did great was sony $600 price 1 year latter in US and even with the biggest market on the pocket it loss.

Sony worst effort ever = MS best one.

Crying about Japan is a joke the same could be say about US and MS and how the cheaper price stole most consumer from sony.

That is funny because who really believe sony would kill at $600 dollars no console ever has being as successful as the PS3 starting at $600 dollars,the Neo Geo,the 3DO,and some even cheaper like the Saturn,dreamcast gamecube and xbox could not sell half of what sony sold with the PS3 even that the starting price was cheaper than $600 dollars hell the DC and GC were $199 the N64 as well,and they were total failure compare to what sony did so yeah relative to the price they started it was a miracle they actually pass MS in the end.

Yep i remember how they pretended only NPD matter..lol

I remember this being posted more than a few times making fun on lemms.

Minus HDD and wireless remote wasn't the full experience. So for $399 you get the full experience of the 360 and at $499 you get the full experience of the PS3. $100 difference but spin away El Tormented.

And the gap between the Premium 360 and 40GB PS3 was $100. You get the full experience with both as opposed to the $299 360 which you didn't.

The only reason the PS3 did ok was the cheap BR player aspect. We both can play this game El Tormented, Fact still remains the 360 was a hell of a console that increased Xbox awareness AND increased it's market share dramatically while the PS3 went the exact opposite. Make all the excuses you want it still won't detract from what the 360 did last gen.

PS3 sold in the US and the UK while the 360 DIDN'T sell in Japan at all. Not quite the same El Tormented but I'm sure you'll spin it.

You cows did and they were VERY vocal about it prior to it's launch. Even after, the mantra "just wait" was born because cows still believed the PS3 was going to destroy the 360, year after year after year. You actually going to pretend cows didn't believe that?

No console was a cheap BR player (new technology at the time) and it's initial sales were as one. Let's not forget the PS3 didn't take off until AFTER it's price drops so it still wasn't a successful console at $600. I'll also add 2 things PS1/PS2....enough said

Mainland EU >>>>>>>>>>>>> UK,oh i forgot outside UK nothing matter in EU.

Yes lets not forget the PS1 and PS2 were $299 at launch not $600 dollars.

Is not a win your books because you are a blind biased buffoon,the xbox came at $300 and sold like total shit 25 million units not even a 3rd of what the PS3 sold which came at $600...

The PS3 is the 4th best selling console of all times.

1-PS2

2-PS1

3- Wii

4-PS3

5- xbox 360.

PS3 at $600 outsold the Nes,and snes 2 winners of console gens,it outsold the xbox by more than 3 to 1,it outsold sold the GC by more than 3 to 1,the N64 as well by more than double the dreamcast by 9 times as many units and the saturn who knows by how much as well as the 3do and neogeo.

So not being a win in your books mean little you are a blind biased lemm..

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

NO...

In fact the PS3 pass the xbox 360 in EU rather quick.

With 5 million PS3s sold on the continent, Sony has announced that they've overtaken the 360 in Europe. And not only that, but Sony has been outselling Microsoft in the market since October.

http://gizmodo.com/387973/playstation-3-surpasses-xbox-360-in-europe

It took sony 1 year and half to beat MS in EU,regardless of MS winning UK because main land EU >>>>>>>>>> UK,the fact that you just claim UK sales were bigger than the rest of EU says it all..lol

In fact the gap between the PS3 and xbox 360 in US was more than 10 million units,if Japan was the only place were the PS3 won it would have loss...

But you are a fool who doesn't know anything i would love to see from where you pull that UK >>> The rest of EU..lol

130 million xbox sold.?

That would be impressive if it weren't for the fact that sony has sold close to 340 million PS...

130 million xbox + 170 millions Wii,wiiu,GC and N64 = 300 millions...lol You can trow the dreamcast and the saturn to and still sony sold more platforms..damn sony The king.

EU is many countries and if that what it takes for the PS3 to catch up to the 360 then that's pretty sad. You're not helping the PS3 El Tormented.

Your point? You're bringing up price point like it matters since it was SONY that decided to set it AND it was Sony that said you'd get 2 jobs to pay for it. Bottom line is the end result...it took 7-8 years to catch up, it lost the most market share, it lost it's profits from the PS1 and PS2 AND it had the biggest security breach in console history. Yeah major loss for Sony that gen.

1.PS2

2.PS1

3.Wii

4.360

5.PS3

Fixed it for you El Tormented

Still a failure coming off the 1st and 2nd consoles on that list above. Yeah...failure for Sony

I guess Sony's a lem as well cause you know they thought of it as a failure as well....need I count the ways

1. Lost %50 or more market share
2. Lost profits from PS1 AND PS2
3. Had the biggest security breach in console history
You can thank the PS3s failure for what the PS4 is today, that and them copying the 360s success.

When your previous console sold 20M in Japan and that console was the biggest selling console in history that 10M to 1M is actually huge. The PS3 still sold a lot in the US just nearly as much as the 360 BUT it sold. Can't say the same for the 360 in Japan. By all means try to spin it El Tormented.

@tormentos:

"I HAVE A PC WITH A R270 I DON'T NEED AN XBOX ONE ANY MORE TO PLAY XBOX ONES GAMES.

Winner Me..

Loser MS.."

Think about this statement for a minute people....

This is the kind of intelligence you're facing, when dealing with cows.

Yes it was the full experience even more early one,since you could not install full games on the xbox 360 HDD it was just for saves and small downloads which were relatively small and restricted in size by MS own policies.

A wired controller was just as good and no batteries were need it,and let me remind you that the generation previous to that HDD wasn't basically use,it was just for musics and some small crap on xbox and the PS2 even that it got one by expansion bay it was rarely use the great majority of that gen didn't have an HDD and were use to the $299 price by the way.

Again the $499 PS3 all it had was a bigger HDD and wifi,both non need it..

Oh please the xbox 360 succeed because the PS3 was much more expensive for years,US gamers byted into it,it was a gap as big as $300,but the smallest one was $100,it release a year ahead of the PS3 which gave time to MS to basically buy out games as exclusives and time exclusives,since it had the more platform sold advantage which is why most games now have a deal on sony side and not MS one even activision is on board of the PS4 when all gen long last gen they were with MS.

The Xbox 360 gap over the PS3 in US was bigger than 10 million units,UK mean shit as the gap there wasn't that relevant,and since mainland EU was bigger than UK in just a year and a half sony took EU,in japan it was just a non contest hell the PS3 didn't sold in Japan half of what the PS2 sold there.

Well go ahead do a search and quote me ill wait while you find me saying the PS3 would destroy the xbox 360.

Well it was more successful at $600 than the OG xbox was at $299..lol.

@kingtito said:

The UK alone sold more than the rest of Europe clown.

You are such a bad liar is not even funny you can't even fallow your own arguments...lol

You claim UK outsold the rest of Europe...lol

Now you are backtracking after you were ask for proof..hahahahahaaa

Actually no is not all you need since the 360 end 3rd with a 1 year head start,so in other words you need as many markets as possible to win.,not just US and UK if that was true MS would have not even bother releasing in Japan a 3rd time even that they know they will lose badly.

Not as much as it most has burn lemming going from first to last..lol

WTF? So a wired controller not wireless, NO HDD == full experience? Hahaha are you freaking serious wow are you full of it El Tormented. I never took you seriously but man this is just beyond your normal stupidity.

A wired controller is just as good hahahahaha tell that to people that sit further away than 6 ft hahaha you're pathetic

Sorry El Tormented but 360 succeeded for it's games and online capability. Only blew up on consoles after the launch of the 360 not even a close minded cow such as yourself could deny that.

PS3 still sold millions of units, the 360 sold next to nothing in Japan over a 8 year period. Yeah keep trying to spin it El Tormented.

Moving the goal post again? Haha

Don't recall the 360 ever being in 1st aside from the initial launch. What you did was describe the Sony fanboys.....got yourself right down to a T...burns going from 1st to last. Nice job for finally admitting your burned butthurt ass.

I think this thread proves just how much of an embarrassment lems are. Kingtito saying that UK alone is a bigger market than the rest of Europe shows how much of a clown he and the of the lems are. Seriously, you can't make this shit up lol!

Or better yet it shows how much butthurt you cows are from the Scorpio announcement. It was an idea, a thought someone mentioned but it's real....the butthurt is real folks and the ones leading the butthurt are right in front of us... El Tormented and quadknight....

I'd suggest cream but I really don't think anything can relieve this amount of butthurt. Best to just ride it out quad and wait for the PS5

"Checkerboard rendering" indicates smaller multiple CPU cores setup.

FYI, John Carmack doesn't have a monopoly on XBox NDA.

The optimization strategies are different between DirectX12 with NVIDIA GPU vs DirectX12 with AMD GPU as per GDC 2016 slide.

DirectX12 on Xbox One has additional APIs for ESRAM management. BradW's statement on this matter is correct.

Xbox One's SDK officially supports AMD's GCN intrinsic functions and AMD has enabled similar features on PC's DirectX12, DirectX11 and Vulkan.

NV_API has it's own create Direct3D device declarations i.e. super set class over the MS's create Direct3D device declarations.

Please sign XBox NDA and read the APIs before posting bullshit.

--------------

PS4's VR is not VR Oculus i.e. the CPU profile is different.

Example for brain dead ports from XBO runs on PC.

Notice R9-290X nearly rivaling 980 Ti i.e. XBO's DX11.X optimizations strategies works pretty good on AMD PC GPUs.

ID Software's statements are made with their Doom 2016 experience and they used AMD's GCN intrinsic functions and NVIDIA's OpenGL vendor specific optimizations.

My view supports both DirectX12 being similar yet different i.e. intrinsic functions, ESRAM handling and 'etc'.

A programmer can limit themselves to make their app compatible between Xbox One and Windows 10's DirectX12, but for maximum performance for Xbox One, hardware specific code path has to be develop .

You GTFO.

Ouch, so back to 30 fps at medium with Playstation? That's like two gens in a row now, soon to be 3.