Do you really trust Microsoft?

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="heretrix"]This is so weird. They do this shitty thing and people complain, they fix it and there's STILL a problem?

heeweesRus

yep. the last of us should be called the "twilight zone" of the generation...not citizen kane. citizen kane is boring.

With my life. ShoulderOfOrion

[QUOTE="ShoulderOfOrion"]With my life. razu2444

As much as I trust Sony not to charge for online multiplayer...

[QUOTE="Sagemode87"]

[QUOTE="clone01"] You don't get it, man! MS is going to invade your house, hold you at gunpoint, and make you by an Xbox one! Sony gives you a free puppy with every PS4 purchase. I thought everyone knew this!!!!!!heretrix

Sounds like you're downplaying the fact that MS was the company that was going to screw us over until the backlash occurred. I doubt you'd be as much of an apologist if Sony was in this situation. I don't trust MS because they could remove this from the architecture of the console, instead they do it with a patch. Somethings not right there. 

Microsoft is damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

LOL the TC just compared Microsoft to the recent NSA scandal.
My god I'm ashamed to be a gamer, two years in a row EA gets voted worst company in the US compared to banks which mishandle their money and go under thus sending their customers for a loop often some losing their homes we'll forget about the policies they employed to specifically cheat people out of their homes, But no EA is evil they didn't give me the games I wanted!

Now Microsoft releases a system that is totally optional and its on the same footing as the US government shown to have spied on their own citizens and the citizens and senior officials of other countries... 

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

This is so weird. They do this shitty thing and people complain, they fix it and there's STILL a problem?

darkspineslayer

Why is is so easy to trust Sony after the PSN breach and the roofkit scandal?heretrix

This is the stupidest question. Should I trust Sony? They left my payment information unprotected for how long? I don't trust any company. I do business with them. Why do people here want to get into personal relationships with corporations?cainetao11

I mean how do you know that after a year or two they ain't changing their policies again?

I mean MS is a bitch company and they're pretty shady... NSA and all this spying stuff. Tweaking their products to show false results... pic is hilarious tho.

V3rciS

at this point if the internet as a group source told me strangling puppys is bad i would probably have to put some intense research into the subject just because anything the  internet says in mass is such a questionablel source.

hell, the last time the internet went batshyt crazy over something in mass  was because something required the internet to use it.

yeah, i know right?

the internet was outraged because the internet was required.   :lol:

LOL the TC just compared Microsoft to the recent NSA scandal.
My god I'm ashamed to be a gamer, two years in a row EA gets voted worst company in the US compared to banks which mishandle their money and go under thus sending their customers for a loop often some losing their homes we'll forget about the policies they employed to specifically cheat people out of their homes, But no EA is evil they didn't give me the games I wanted!

Now Microsoft releases a system that is totally optional and its on the same footing as the US government shown to have spied on their own citizens and the citizens and senior officials of other countries... 

WilliamRLBaker

Just because some people make bad hyperboles doesn't change the fact that EA is a bad company and MS's kinetic policy intrudes on consumer privacy. 

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="Sagemode87"]

Sounds like you're downplaying the fact that MS was the company that was going to screw us over until the backlash occurred. I doubt you'd be as much of an apologist if Sony was in this situation. I don't trust MS because they could remove this from the architecture of the console, instead they do it with a patch. Somethings not right there. 

Ly_the_Fairy

Microsoft is damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

So they announced all these wonderful things going all out and acting proud of it at their press conference. Well the internet erupted into a volcano of hatred for weeks on end constantly, everywhere and what did Microsoft do? They said "Deal with it" they explained why the "Concept of ownership is morphing" by telling us how we should share our products we buy and own with Microsoft and do what they say with them, they spent weeks with interviews and conferences explaining why all this stuff is really ok and its for our own good and told us why we should just roll over and accept it. Lets face it, this has been going on for months before the E3 event unveiled all of their plans.

So after all of that they decided to reverse the policies they were slapping us with just a few days ago and expecting to not only put up with them, but pay for them as well.

Will I buy an Xbox One now that Microsoft has changed the policies that I so justifiably hated? No, I will not. Not even if they reduce the price and throw in a free game I will not buy an Xbox One.

"OHHHH BUT WHY????!!!!! They change what you hated you should like them now!" No, I should not like them now. They flip flopped over night, that does not suddenly make everything ok.

Despite changing their policies Microsoft is still the exact same company it was 2 days ago which we all hated and despised. Sure they changed policies but its still the same company. Do you honestly think the entire company suddenly had a epiphany and decided now it loves the consumers? Has our best interest at heart? And wants to become all of our best friends and show us how loved and adored we are as their customers? Wrong! Its the same company. They did not change their minds over night, and there is nothing to say they wont change it right back again at the drop of a hat.

Microsoft did not make these changes for the good of the consumer. They did not change anything to please its customers. They did not change anything to bring more value to us. They did not change anything in order to make us feel valuable. And they did not change anything to say they are sorry. They did however change things for the sake of profit and nothing else. They changed not because they wanted to, but because they were forced to.

So they announced all these wonderful things going all out and acting proud of it at their press conference. Well the internet erupted into a volcano of hatred for weeks on end constantly, everywhere and what did Microsoft do? They said "Deal with it" they explained why the "Concept of ownership is morphing" by telling us how we should share our products we buy and own with Microsoft and do what they say with them, they spent weeks with interviews and conferences explaining why all this stuff is really ok and its for our own good and told us why we should just roll over and accept it. Lets face it, this has been going on for months before the E3 event unveiled all of their plans.

 

So after all of that they decided to reverse the policies they were slapping us with just a few days ago and expecting to not only put up with them, but pay for them as well.

 

Will I buy an Xbox One now that Microsoft has changed the policies that I so justifiably hated? No, I will not. Not even if they reduce the price and throw in a free game I will not buy an Xbox One.

 

"OHHHH BUT WHY????!!!!! They change what you hated you should like them now!" No, I should not like them now. They flip flopped over night, that does not suddenly make everything ok.

 

Despite changing their policies Microsoft is still the exact same company it was 2 days ago which we all hated and despised. Sure they changed policies but its still the same company. Do you honestly think the entire company suddenly had a epiphany and decided now it loves the consumers? Has our best interest at heart? And wants to become all of our best friends and show us how loved and adored we are as their customers? Wrong! Its the same company. They did not change their minds over night, and there is nothing to say they wont change it right back again at the drop of a hat.

 

Microsoft did not make these changes for the good of the consumer. They did not change anything to please its customers. They did not change anything to bring more value to us. They did not change anything in order to make us feel valuable. And they did not change anything to say they are sorry. They did however change things for the sake of profit and nothing else. They changed not because they wanted to, but because they were forced to.

Gargus

so it was done publicly instead of behind closed doors like everybody else.

^^Damn, that text is too small can you make it larger?  I'm having problems reading it.

so it was done publicly instead of behind closed doors like everybody else.

CaseyWegner

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

so it was done publicly instead of behind closed doors like everybody else.

darkspineslayer

not really the point but...yes.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

so it was done publicly instead of behind closed doors like everybody else.

darkspineslayer

Prepared to do what? Bring a potentially better service to a fanbase consisting of gamers they know have a consistent internet connection?

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

so it was done publicly instead of behind closed doors like everybody else.

Ly_the_Fairy

Prepared to do what? Bring a potentially better service to a fanbase consisting of gamers they know have a consistent internet connection?

do you trust any company?

lostrib

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"] All conjecture, Casey. Sure, either of them may have thought about, or even talked about it. Fact is, Microsoft was prepared to do it. darkspineslayer

Prepared to do what? Bring a potentially better service to a fanbase consisting of gamers they know have a consistent internet connection?

Yep, people saw "DRM" and immediatly grabbed their torches and pitchforks without realizing that the argument should never be about DRM.

DRM is not inherently evil as everyone seems to think it is. Every developer has a right to protect his/her investment. 

The argument should be about accessibility. Steam is DRM, and you know what? The average consumer on Steam spends more money, and plays more games than the average console user despite having LESS FREEDOM to do with their purchases as they want.

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

after all the backlash that made them take away the drm and online requirement in the first place you think they're scheming to restore it later once people are lured in?

 

CaseyWegner

This

I don't trust any corporation, you'd have to be an idiot to.  That said, I'd hold more respect for MS if they held true to their course instead of flipping a bitch and spewing garbage PR at us.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

so it was done publicly instead of behind closed doors like everybody else.

darkspineslayer

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"][QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

Prepared to do what? Bring a potentially better service to a fanbase consisting of gamers they know have a consistent internet connection?

Ly_the_Fairy

Yep, people saw "DRM" and immediatly grabbed their torches and pitchforks without realizing that the argument should never be about DRM.

DRM is not inherently evil as everyone seems to think it is. Every developer has a right to protect his/her investment. 

The argument should be about accessibility. Steam is DRM, and you know what? The average consumer on Steam spends more money, and plays more games than the average console user despite having LESS FREEDOM to do with their purchases as they want.

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

so it was done publicly instead of behind closed doors like everybody else.

cainetao11

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

so it was done publicly instead of behind closed doors like everybody else.

cainetao11

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"][QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

Prepared to do what? Bring a potentially better service to a fanbase consisting of gamers they know have a consistent internet connection?

Ly_the_Fairy

Yep, people saw "DRM" and immediatly grabbed their torches and pitchforks without realizing that the argument should never be about DRM.

DRM is not inherently evil as everyone seems to think it is. Every developer has a right to protect his/her investment. 

The argument should be about accessibility. Steam is DRM, and you know what? The average consumer on Steam spends more money, and plays more games than the average console user despite having LESS FREEDOM to do with their purchases as they want.

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"] I don't intend to debate the validity of a system that isn't happening anymore. I think it's pretty clear the majority did not think the trade off was worth it.heretrix

Yep, people saw "DRM" and immediatly grabbed their torches and pitchforks without realizing that the argument should never be about DRM.

DRM is not inherently evil as everyone seems to think it is. Every developer has a right to protect his/her investment. 

The argument should be about accessibility. Steam is DRM, and you know what? The average consumer on Steam spends more money, and plays more games than the average console user despite having LESS FREEDOM to do with their purchases as they want.

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

Just tried it myself. It did exactly what the pic shows... no photoshop job. Wow.donalbane

I just did it and this is what I got.

You say every developer has the right to protect their investment. But what about consumer rights? Is that not more important? Murderstyle75

The problem with a lot of the dialog about DRM is that people think they are entitled to way more than they actually actually deserve. It can lead to stagnation if IP holders feels they can't change anything without their customers going batshit. It's like nobody can see that the middle ground. Instead we get customers thinking they should get EVERYTHING for free and content makers getting overprotective of their IP and by doing so constricting how customers use their products. It's a shame.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

Yep, people saw "DRM" and immediatly grabbed their torches and pitchforks without realizing that the argument should never be about DRM.

DRM is not inherently evil as everyone seems to think it is. Every developer has a right to protect his/her investment. 

The argument should be about accessibility. Steam is DRM, and you know what? The average consumer on Steam spends more money, and plays more games than the average console user despite having LESS FREEDOM to do with their purchases as they want.

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

Murderstyle75

[QUOTE="Murderstyle75"][QUOTE="heretrix"]Very well said.

heretrix

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

Ly_the_Fairy

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

Yep, people saw "DRM" and immediatly grabbed their torches and pitchforks without realizing that the argument should never be about DRM.

DRM is not inherently evil as everyone seems to think it is. Every developer has a right to protect his/her investment. 

The argument should be about accessibility. Steam is DRM, and you know what? The average consumer on Steam spends more money, and plays more games than the average console user despite having LESS FREEDOM to do with their purchases as they want.

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

Murderstyle75

Uh, what?

Nobody ever said that at all, and your analogy is appalling.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="Murderstyle75"] So in other words, people would use Steam just as much if game and DLC prices reflected that of game consoles? Lems trying to defend a corporation reminds me of rape and kidnap victims with Stockholm syndrome.Murderstyle75

That is only a small part of it. Steam has success because Valve is insanely good at PR and has lead the charge in what a consumer friendly digital distribution platform should be. They aren't perfect, but they are insanely good at upholding the illusion of balance.

It's like you've never used Steam before.

Why wouldn't I? They have been around 30+ years, have made great products, and when they have screwed up they have done all that they can do to fix the situation or make up for their mistake. For everyone that says they are anti-consumer, think of all the screwups they have had and think about what they have done to make up said mistakes. Yes you can say they are monoply and they hurt small business, but what big business don't do this? What businesses doen't make the barriers of entry in a market harder for up and comers? Everyone does.

Yes, sometimes they try to move on and change things, but people don't like change and whine and cry about a silly start menu, or having to check in at least once every 24 hours, when probably 95% of the time you will be connected regardless and you probably will soon forgert about the start button when you figure out the new way of doing things. I can't stand when people when all they want to do is sit still and keep the status quo. Thats how innovation never happens, and everything stays stagnet. How is that a good thing?

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

MirkoS77

[QUOTE="Murderstyle75"][QUOTE="heretrix"]The thing is Steam Isn't like that so your "point" is moot.

heretrix

That is only a small part of it. Steam has success because Valve is insanely good a PR and has lead the charge in what a consumer friendly digital distribution platform should be. They aren't perfect, but they are insanely good at upholding the illusion of balance.

It's like you've never used Steam before.

Why wouldn't I? They have been around 30+ years, have made great products, and when they have screwed up they have done all that they can do to fix the situation or make up for their mistake. For everyone that says they are anti-consumer, think of all the screwups they have had and think about what they have done to make up said mistakes. Yes you can say they are monoply and they hurt small business, but what big business don't do this? What businesses doen't make the barriers of entry in a market harder for up and comers? Everyone does.

Yes, sometimes they try to move on and change things, but people don't like change and whine and cry about a silly start menu, or having to check in at least once every 24 hours, when probably 95% you will be connected regardless and you probably will soon forgert about the start button when you figure out the new way of doing things. I can't stand when people when all they want to do is sit still and keep the status quo. Thats how innovation never happens, and everything stays stagnet. How is that a good thing?

xscrapzx

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=598291

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="Murderstyle75"] Point is not moot at all. Steam has success because of insane game discounts. Consoles do not. Its much easier to swallow DRM when the games are priced cheaper than the difference you would get back by buying and later selling a console title.xscrapzx

That is only a small part of it. Steam has success because Valve is insanely good a PR and has lead the charge in what a consumer friendly digital distribution platform should be. They aren't perfect, but they are insanely good at upholding the illusion of balance.

It's like you've never used Steam before.

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

My guess is that the majority of people on here who don't trust MS never have, and weren't going to buy an XBone anyway.

The rest of us trust them about as far as any company deserves to be trusted. Meaning, doing what is in their best interest.

Sagemode87

Sounds like you're downplaying the fact that MS was the company that was going to screw us over until the backlash occurred. I doubt you'd be as much of an apologist if Sony was in this situation. I don't trust MS because they could remove this from the architecture of the console, instead they do it with a patch. Somethings not right there. 

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="heretrix"]

That is only a small part of it. Steam has success because Valve is insanely good a PR and has lead the charge in what a consumer friendly digital distribution platform should be. They aren't perfect, but they are insanely good at upholding the illusion of balance.

It's like you've never used Steam before.

heretrix

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

MirkoS77

Microsoft definitely failed, but gamers are too.

Just as nobody should take good news from a company at face value, so should people not take bad news at face value.

Consumers have the ability to research the Xbox One BEYOND what Microsoft tells them, yet they didn't. They instead chose to put on their blinders, and tunnel vision Microsoft without getting the full picture of what MS was doing.

I agree Microsoft could have done better at informing the gaming community, but the gaming community didn't even attempt to inform themselves.