Do you really trust Microsoft?

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

They changed now because they were forced not because they were enlightened.

heretrix

It doesn't really matter. They RESPONDED. People said the choice they made was bad, Sony capitalized on it (bravo) and embarrassed the hell out of them at E3, and they changed it because of that.

I really don't give a shit as to why, the fact that they did shows they are listening (mostly. I really don't get the Kinect obsession). As for them switching back later on, that would be incredibly stupid UNLESS, they have a really compelling reason for doing so. MS, contrary to SW belief is not filled with stupid people, it's just at times they can get their head stuck up their asses due to ego(like most smart people) and make weird decsions.

All said, I still don't want a X1.

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

They changed now because they were forced not because they were enlightened.

heretrix

It doesn't really matter. They RESPONDED. People said the choice they made was bad, Sony capitalized on it (bravo) and embarrassed the hell out of them at E3, and they changed it because of that.

I really don't give a shit as to why, the fact that they did shows they are listening (mostly. I really don't get the Kinect obsession). As for them switching back later on, that would be incredibly stupid UNLESS, they have a really compelling reason for doing so. MS, contrary to SW belief is not filled with stupid people, it's just at times they can get their head stuck up their asses due to ego(like most smart people) and make weird decsions.

All said, I still don't want a X1.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

They changed now because they were forced not because they were enlightened.

MirkoS77

It doesn't really matter. They RESPONDED. People said the choice they made was bad, Sony capitalized on it (bravo) and embarrassed the hell out of them at E3, and they changed it because of that.

I really don't give a shit as to why, the fact that they did shows they are listening (mostly. I really don't get the Kinect obsession). As for them switching back later on, that would be incredibly stupid UNLESS, they have a really compelling reason for doing so. MS, contrary to SW belief is not filled with stupid people, it's just at times they can get their head stuck up their asses due to ego(like most smart people) and make weird decsions.

All said, I still don't want a X1.

meh, i already made up my mind to get a ps4, don't really care what microsoft is doing with the xbox one anymore, for all you guys buying it. Have fun enjoy it

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

It doesn't really matter. They RESPONDED. People said the choice they made was bad, Sony capitalized on it (bravo) and embarrassed the hell out of them at E3, and they changed it because of that.

I really don't give a shit as to why, the fact that they did shows they are listening (mostly. I really don't get the Kinect obsession). As for them switching back later on, that would be incredibly stupid UNLESS, they have a really compelling reason for doing so. MS, contrary to SW belief is not filled with stupid people, it's just at times they can get their head stuck up their asses due to ego(like most smart people) and make weird decsions.

All said, I still don't want a X1.

Bruce_Benzing

MS is like a date rapist. They got caught trying to roofie you and now they wanna make it up to you by buying you another drink. Would you really trust someone like that?

guard12

Do I trust the company that brought us Vista and windows 8, and won't answer if they'll bring back DRM policies? Is this some kind of trick question?Swade009

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"] I don't intend to debate the validity of a system that isn't happening anymore. I think it's pretty clear the majority did not think the trade off was worth it.GOGOGOGURT

Yep, people saw "DRM" and immediatly grabbed their torches and pitchforks without realizing that the argument should never be about DRM.

DRM is not inherently evil as everyone seems to think it is. Every developer has a right to protect his/her investment. 

The argument should be about accessibility. Steam is DRM, and you know what? The average consumer on Steam spends more money, and plays more games than the average console user despite having LESS FREEDOM to do with their purchases as they want.

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

Perfectly said.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

It doesn't really matter. They RESPONDED. People said the choice they made was bad, Sony capitalized on it (bravo) and embarrassed the hell out of them at E3, and they changed it because of that.

I really don't give a shit as to why, the fact that they did shows they are listening (mostly. I really don't get the Kinect obsession). As for them switching back later on, that would be incredibly stupid UNLESS, they have a really compelling reason for doing so. MS, contrary to SW belief is not filled with stupid people, it's just at times they can get their head stuck up their asses due to ego(like most smart people) and make weird decsions.

All said, I still don't want a X1.

Bruce_Benzing

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

Yep, people saw "DRM" and immediatly grabbed their torches and pitchforks without realizing that the argument should never be about DRM.

DRM is not inherently evil as everyone seems to think it is. Every developer has a right to protect his/her investment. 

The argument should be about accessibility. Steam is DRM, and you know what? The average consumer on Steam spends more money, and plays more games than the average console user despite having LESS FREEDOM to do with their purchases as they want.

People were far too quick to attack the Xbox One before ever trying to even attempt to understand it.

Heil68

Perfectly said.

Was hardly unprotected, and the PS2 was a decade ago, but whatever, most companies f*** up eventually and tend to act the same way when they do, fair enough if you want to treat them all the same.

At this point in time, I hardly think they are though.

 

I'll opt for putting my chips in with the guys who appear genuine and have set off in the right direction, over the people who've been blatantly dishonest, manipulative and with an interest in going the wrong way. Makes sense to me.

McStrongfast

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

Perfectly said.

MirkoS77

no they are devilzzzzzzzzzzz that hide behind teh cloudz and spy on your NSA Kinect 24 7 online madness... WHERE IS MY PITCHFORK hahahaha

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

 

Perfectly said.

MirkoS77

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"] No, MS did a SHIT job explaining what they were trying to, plain and simple. They thought they could change the industry on their own, they were wrong. It wasn't about giving customers a Steam type service with crazy sales, it was to get people to have to buy new copies of games and surprise! MS gets a cut off of every one. Consumer rights were at the bottom of their priorities and I applud them for putting the whole plan in the garbage can where it belongs. Mr720fan

no they are devilzzzzzzzzzzz that hide behind teh cloudz and spy on your NSA Kinect 24 7 online madness... WHERE IS MY PITCHFORK hahahaha

In short, yes.

 MS isn't going to try and sneak something by the consumer.  At best, there would be a massive backlash from consumers, a dismantling of the XBox brand, and damage to the MS brand for years to come.  At worst, you'd get all of that, massive financial penalties, and a number of jail terms.  

MS isn't commited to anything more than money, and that's just bad business.

Microshaft didn't listen to anybody. They saw that the console was about to flop due to the restrictions and they acted upon this.

In short, yes.

 

 MS isn't going to try and sneak something by the consumer.  At best, there would be a massive backlash from consumers, a dismantling of the XBox brand, and damage to the MS brand for years to come.  At worst, you'd get all of that, massive financial penalties, and a number of jail terms.  

 

MS isn't commited to anything more than money, and that's just bad business.

santoron

I'm getting an odd deja vu sensation over the red text... Hmmm... I feel like this has already happened in some way...

In short, yes.

 

 MS isn't going to try and sneak something by the consumer.  At best, there would be a massive backlash from consumers, a dismantling of the XBox brand, and damage to the MS brand for years to come.  At worst, you'd get all of that, massive financial penalties, and a number of jail terms.  

 

MS isn't commited to anything more than money, and that's just bad business.

santoron

[QUOTE="McStrongfast"]

Was hardly unprotected, and the PS2 was a decade ago, but whatever, most companies f*** up eventually and tend to act the same way when they do, fair enough if you want to treat them all the same.

At this point in time, I hardly think they are though.

 

I'll opt for putting my chips in with the guys who appear genuine and have set off in the right direction, over the people who've been blatantly dishonest, manipulative and with an interest in going the wrong way. Makes sense to me.

cainetao11

And no, decade old hardware issues don't count. As you seem keen to stress, any company could f*** up at some point. A new console launch is a bit of a clean slate. So I'm taking current indicators into account and Sony is vastly superior since they're not actively trying to f*** me over. Let's try to limit the risk, right? Retaining ownership rights is pretty important to me, I would say personal.

I already said "fair enough" to your perspective. You don't have to agree with me or justify yourself to me.

[QUOTE="santoron"]

In short, yes.

 

 MS isn't going to try and sneak something by the consumer.  At best, there would be a massive backlash from consumers, a dismantling of the XBox brand, and damage to the MS brand for years to come.  At worst, you'd get all of that, massive financial penalties, and a number of jail terms.  

 

MS isn't commited to anything more than money, and that's just bad business.

cainetao11

[QUOTE="cainetao11"][QUOTE="santoron"]

In short, yes.

 

 MS isn't going to try and sneak something by the consumer.  At best, there would be a massive backlash from consumers, a dismantling of the XBox brand, and damage to the MS brand for years to come.  At worst, you'd get all of that, massive financial penalties, and a number of jail terms.  

 

MS isn't commited to anything more than money, and that's just bad business.

Bruce_Benzing

[QUOTE="Bruce_Benzing"]

[QUOTE="cainetao11"] Funny how people miss that. Whether you liked or hated the policies they recently changed, they didn't hide them. They were upfront with consumers about their stupidity. And they did what they say they do. They listened and reacted accordingly.ShaineTheNerd

meh, i already made up my mind to get a ps4, don't really care what microsoft is doing with the xbox one anymore, for all you guys buying it. Have fun enjoy it

Chris_Williams

[QUOTE="ShaineTheNerd"][QUOTE="Bruce_Benzing"] You hit the nail right on the head. Who do trust more the company that tells you they might put a feature in that consumers don't like or the company that just tells you what you want to hear? People that support Sony remind me of Democrats during last years Presidential election. Yes, let's fully trust Obama after he swore he wasn't going to raise taxes on middle or poor class people and then act surprised when he raises taxes on everybody. I trust Sony less.stayhigh1

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

Microsoft definitely failed, but gamers are too.

Just as nobody should take good news from a company at face value, so should people not take bad news at face value.

Consumers have the ability to research the Xbox One BEYOND what Microsoft tells them, yet they didn't. They instead chose to put on their blinders, and tunnel vision Microsoft without getting the full picture of what MS was doing.

I agree Microsoft could have done better at informing the gaming community, but the gaming community didn't even attempt to inform themselves.

Ly_the_Fairy

I understand that people will jump to conclusions but MS allowed them to.  The problem was they didn't give us the full picture from the start.  They were forced to come out and elaborate on their policies later on when the uproar had already reached a peak and the damage had already been done.  It was as if they really didn't have anything concrete at all except that there would be some sort of DRM and mandatory Internet requirement.  They'd subtly leak this out in their reveal and see the reaction, then come out and clarify.  

They showed NO benefit to go along with these new restrictions.  Everyone searched for the good side and saw none, and that's why everyone jumped to conclusions.....because that's all MS gave them.  No assurances that we'd be seeing reduced prices.  No assurances of any type of trading/selling (only vague "we're exploring the possibilities").  No assurances that our purchases would be secure 20 years down the road.  They needed to come out with a set plan, shoving benefits in our faces.  I don't blame gamers one bit.  There are always going to be haters, but had MS done this properly the haters would've been in the vocal minority.

Coming out with such a drastic change without explicit explanation on every single possible element was suicide and they should've known better.  I was an ardent supporter of MS this gen, and as a supporter (and lover) of Steam, I'm open to adopting a similar model for consoles.  But not how they presented it.  It was a PR failure like I've never seen before and I'd be surprised if someone doesn't lose their job over this.

As I said earlier. The gaming community picked up their torches and pitchforks right when DRM was mentioned before ever analyzing the situation.

Gamers didn't care to understand why the 24 hr check-in was put in place (people completely ignore it when you tell them why it was there), and gamers didn't care to consider how an always-online system could have made their games more accessible to them.

When you see the most anti-DRM company in the business (CD Projekt) highlighting Microsoft's E3 press conference, that should be very telling to the gaming populace that Microsoft was not planning to oppress gamers with their DRM.

You can't say with a straight face that all the hate MS got was justified. There was a very small, very sensible group who cared to look for answers, and a very large, rabid, ignorant group who wanted to ride the MS hate train that's been so popular these days.

MS is doing it to stop piracy.  Not to hurt consumers.

Nope, as a matter of fact I don't trust any company.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

Microsoft definitely failed, but gamers are too.

Just as nobody should take good news from a company at face value, so should people not take bad news at face value.

Consumers have the ability to research the Xbox One BEYOND what Microsoft tells them, yet they didn't. They instead chose to put on their blinders, and tunnel vision Microsoft without getting the full picture of what MS was doing.

I agree Microsoft could have done better at informing the gaming community, but the gaming community didn't even attempt to inform themselves.

Ly_the_Fairy

I understand that people will jump to conclusions but MS allowed them to.  The problem was they didn't give us the full picture from the start.  They were forced to come out and elaborate on their policies later on when the uproar had already reached a peak and the damage had already been done.  It was as if they really didn't have anything concrete at all except that there would be some sort of DRM and mandatory Internet requirement.  They'd subtly leak this out in their reveal and see the reaction, then come out and clarify.  

They showed NO benefit to go along with these new restrictions.  Everyone searched for the good side and saw none, and that's why everyone jumped to conclusions.....because that's all MS gave them.  No assurances that we'd be seeing reduced prices.  No assurances of any type of trading/selling (only vague "we're exploring the possibilities").  No assurances that our purchases would be secure 20 years down the road.  They needed to come out with a set plan, shoving benefits in our faces.  I don't blame gamers one bit.  There are always going to be haters, but had MS done this properly the haters would've been in the vocal minority.

Coming out with such a drastic change without explicit explanation on every single possible element was suicide and they should've known better.  I was an ardent supporter of MS this gen, and as a supporter (and lover) of Steam, I'm open to adopting a similar model for consoles.  But not how they presented it.  It was a PR failure like I've never seen before and I'd be surprised if someone doesn't lose their job over this.

As I said earlier. The gaming community picked up their torches and pitchforks right when DRM was mentioned before ever analyzing the situation.

Gamers didn't care to understand why the 24 hr check-in was put in place (people completely ignore it when you tell them why it was there), and gamers didn't care to consider how an always-online system could have made their games more accessible to them.

When you see the most anti-DRM company in the business (CD Projekt) highlighting Microsoft's E3 press conference, that should be very telling to the gaming populace that Microsoft was not planning to oppress gamers with their DRM.

You can't say with a straight face that all the hate MS got was justified. There was a very small, very sensible group who cared to look for answers, and a very large, rabid, ignorant group who wanted to ride the MS hate train that's been so popular these days.

The only benefit to a check-in is the ability to add a physical copy to your library and accessing it from your account. Doesn't need to be once per 24 hours, but there needs to at least be an online verification the first time the disc is inserted, to ensure the game's not being installed/accessed on too many consoles at once. Microsoft's family sharing plan or whatnot could've been made strictly DD only. 100% of users who buy DD games have an internet connection. Microsoft requiring one when sharing those games wouldn't be an issue. It would be a choice users get to make. Have these benefits and downsides with digital, or these ones with physical. I believe we're better off not crossing the streams.

"I was surprised, and I really hope that it isn't final. I think Polish gamers will speak out loud. From my perspective, it's a sad situation."
Marcin Iwinski, co-founder and joint CEO of CD Projekt Red

And here's what they had to say about the Xbox One DRM snafu in general, before they were made aware the Xbox One literally wouldn't be operational in Poland.

The fact that Microsoft was planning to impose restrictive policies and whittle down ownership rights for physical copies, should be very telling.