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[QUOTE="the_ChEeSe_mAn2"]I can't believe there are so many people ready to write off a whole game based on A SHORT VIDEO CLIP. Dragon Age: Origins also didn't look that impressive when it was first revealed. And guess what? It was critically and commercially successful. Give it time people, wait for reviews then judge.Cali3350
We are 100% complaining because of that god awful hack n slash combat we saw. It has nothing to do with how it looked visually. Dragon Age: Origins may have the best combat of any RPG this year (on PC). To see it become that is terrible.
Its not "fearing change", its pissed off they threw out something that was great and made it a stupid button masher.
Again why are people, such as yourself, calling this game already a "stupid button masher" based on a short video clip that may have been supposed to showcase how more engaging combat will be when in real-time form and not paused to change tactics? And I didn't mean visuals only when i said DAO looked unimpressive. I also meant the combat and the character interactions looked meh, but the game still turned out fine. I may come across as a Bioware fanboy, which is partially true, but I am willing to give Bioware the benefit of doubt before writing of DA 2 as a bad game when its not scheduled to be released until 201.[QUOTE="Masculus"]Torchlight II, Neverwinter, Guild Wars II, Risen II. Dead State. We are secure :PWell, at least we have Witcher 2 and Diablo 3 to look for. DAO2 looks like it is going to becrap.
GeneralShowzer
Not one of those will get reviews as good as Dragon Age 2, quote me.
[QUOTE="alextherussian"]I hope the gameplay follows the previous game. Meaning the consoles can have their 3rd person as long as PC still gets their Birds Eye view and higher emphasis on tactics..lawlessxbioware scraped that..PC version will have same camera views as console version. Well then I really dont have any high hopes for this
I think That DAO was more or less LOTR with a skill system that reminded me of talents from wow. Many people love it but sure was'nt the DnD games Bioware used to make.
I'll reserve judgement on DAO 2.
Wow. Good job degrading this game into nothing more than a hack n' slash. Pretty fail Bioware.Merex760the problem is bioware and the kind of feedback they take from they're fans. They listen to what alot of people hated and pretty much focus on just that. While many though the gameplay in Dragon Age was fun and tactical;many thought it was slow and boring. So instead of maybe finding a way to speed up gameplay and still keep it turnbased..they completely threw it out and made the game a hack and slash RPG. I wonder if this as anything to do with EA buying them out.
Horrible. I don't want a hack and slash. They had to put zero effort in killing like 10 Darkspawn in that footage.ParasomniacThe characters were probably god for demo purposes, and supposedly this was a "flashback" fight, or whatever you would call it...
Hmm the combat looks kind of weird. While I didn't enjoy a lot of things in the original, I was ok with the combat, in fact, if they improved the enemy variation and some tweaks here and there with the combat I might have seen myself well satisfied... whatever I'm seeing right now I did not expect.
Anyway, isn't the game supposed to come out like a year from now? They have lots of time, and perhaps this is one of those situations where you have to experience it in order to appreciate it or get it. That was a very short video, it didn't show much of what to expect from a reasonable stance. However, I do agree that what I'm seeing pretty much looks like a hack n slash.
[QUOTE="coreybg"]
Wtf? It looks like hack n slash. The turn based combat was much better than this. Guess everyone who said we're geting Dragon Effect were right.
HAZE-Unit
the turn based system was awful.
this game have better real-time system.
I take it you were playing the console version?Torchlight II, Neverwinter, Guild Wars II, Risen II. Dead State. We are secure :P[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="Masculus"]
Well, at least we have Witcher 2 and Diablo 3 to look for. DAO2 looks like it is going to becrap.
Shoaka
Not one of those will get reviews as good as Dragon Age 2, quote me.
I'm sure that will be a major personal victory for you. You can enjoy critical reception, and i will enjoy good RPG's.[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]
[QUOTE="coreybg"]
Wtf? It looks like hack n slash. The turn based combat was much better than this. Guess everyone who said we're geting Dragon Effect were right.
jasonharris48
the turn based system was awful.
this game have better real-time system.
I take it you were playing the console version? i played the console version and i loved the combat system. What's different in the PC version?[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]I take it you were playing the console version? i played the console version and i loved the combat system. What's different in the PC version? Nothing with the console version (sorry if I made it out to be that way) but I prefer the PC version because it played out like more of traditional CRPG.[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]
the turn based system was awful.
this game have better real-time system.
lawlessx
[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]I take it you were playing the console version? i played the console version and i loved the combat system. What's different in the PC version?[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]
the turn based system was awful.
this game have better real-time system.
lawlessx
The PC version allows a overhead birdeye view, which is simply remarkable at how well it lends itself to things.
Also if I remember right there is no friendly fire in the console versions which is...well, mega super dumb. It most certainly exists in the PC version.
i played the console version and i loved the combat system. What's different in the PC version?[QUOTE="lawlessx"][QUOTE="jasonharris48"] I take it you were playing the console version?
Cali3350
The PC version allows a overhead birdeye view, which is simply remarkable at how well it lends itself to things.
Also if I remember right there is no friendly fire in the console versions which is...well, mega super dumb. It most certainly exists in the PC version.
If you're talking about DA:O it had friendly fire.[QUOTE="alextherussian"]I hope the gameplay follows the previous game. Meaning the consoles can have their 3rd person as long as PC still gets their Birds Eye view and higher emphasis on tactics..lawlessxbioware scraped that..PC version will have same camera views as console version.
False. There will be no isometric view like there is in DA:O, but you will be able to zoom out.
[QUOTE="Shoaka"][QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] Torchlight II, Neverwinter, Guild Wars II, Risen II. Dead State. We are secure :PGeneralShowzer
Not one of those will get reviews as good as Dragon Age 2, quote me.
I'm sure that will be a major personal victory for you. You can enjoy critical reception, and i will enjoy good RPG's. Dragon Age 2 will blow everything out of the water. You can enjoy overhyping small developers, while I enjoy good RPG's.I'm sure that will be a major personal victory for you. You can enjoy critical reception, and i will enjoy good RPG's. Dragon Age 2 will blow everything out of the water. You can enjoy overhyping small developers, while I enjoy good RPG's. Oh god, it's you. Witcher > DA:O get over it. Witcher II > DA: II anyone can tell you that now.[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="Shoaka"]
Not one of those will get reviews as good as Dragon Age 2, quote me.
SkyWard20
And Blizzard, small developers? AreNet, small developers? Guild Wars II is a bigger project than DA:II way bigger.
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]Dragon Age 2 will blow everything out of the water. You can enjoy overhyping small developers, while I enjoy good RPG's. Oh god, it's you. Witcher > DA:O get over it. Witcher II > DA: II anyone can tell you that now. Well, how could I possibly argue with that? After all, we've seen *so* much about the game and we all played it and saw how horrible it was.[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] I'm sure that will be a major personal victory for you. You can enjoy critical reception, and i will enjoy good RPG's.GeneralShowzer
Dragon Age 2 will blow everything out of the water. You can enjoy overhyping small developers, while I enjoy good RPG's. Oh god, it's you. Witcher > DA:O get over it. Witcher II > DA: II anyone can tell you that now.[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]
[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] I'm sure that will be a major personal victory for you. You can enjoy critical reception, and i will enjoy good RPG's.GeneralShowzer
And Blizzard, small developers? AreNet, small developers? Guild Wars II is a bigger project than DA:II way bigger.
I was talking about CD Projekt, and those are very different games from The Witcher or Dragon Age. And by the way, the first Guild Wars was a poor man's MMO and I expect the second installment to be the same.Dragon Age 2 will blow everything out of the water. You can enjoy overhyping small developers, while I enjoy good RPG's.[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]
[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] I'm sure that will be a major personal victory for you. You can enjoy critical reception, and i will enjoy good RPG's.GeneralShowzer
--Oh god, it's you---.
He's getting famous, eh? :D and after what he put in his sig, I doubt anyone would want to take him seriously.[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] Dragon Age 2 will blow everything out of the water. You can enjoy overhyping small developers, while I enjoy good RPG's. shane_orija
--Oh god, it's you---.
He's getting famous, eh? :D and after what he put in his sig, I doubt anyone would want to take him seriously. So you're saying PC Gamer UK is a joke? :-/Bioware's main priority in game design is and has always been mass appeal. When you think of it, they are more like table top hack and slashes (tabletop games that Role Playing Games without the Role Playing part) than actual rpgs. As it happens, action sells a lot better than turn based or the formula DAO used so therefore they used that. Look at SWTOR, there is a reason it is essentially a remake of WoW with a star wars theme. I am not surprised at them changing the game from the old style to the new style, it simply sells better even though it will probably reduce its quality.
"The superior man understands what is right; the inferior man understands what will sell."-Confucius
And to Skyward: You are entitled to your opinion, but out of the upcoming RPGs I am getting (which is at least 5) Dragon Age 2 is not one of them and by the looks of it in this thread I am probably not the only one.
Does anyone remember that one article where Bioware said that even though Dragon age sold very well..that they are going to change it completely in order to be AAA title... I know that they said that:x I just cant find the article:oops:.. I would like for Bioware to take some of Peter Moore's advice...
Moore said it's important to always keep the gamers' needs in sight, so not to get carried away by chasing review scores.
"You can break Metacritic down and say 'We can get two extra points by doing this' but it may not actually enhance the gamers' experience, and that is where there is a line we have to be careful we don't cross."
He concluded: "It is a bit of a slippery slope if you focus everything on Metacritic."
Does anyone remember that one article where Bioware said that even though Dragon age sold very well..that they are going to change it completely in order to be AAA title... I know that they said that:x I just cant find the article:oops:.. I would like for Bioware to take some of Peter Moore's advice...
Moore said it's important to always keep the gamers' needs in sight, so not to get carried away by chasing review scores.
"You can break Metacritic down and say 'We can get two extra points by doing this' but it may not actually enhance the gamers' experience, and that is where there is a line we have to be careful we don't cross."
He concluded: "It is a bit of a slippery slope if you focus everything on Metacritic."
devious742
Here's your answer.
French Magazine Joystick (Sept. issue) interviewed Mike Laidlaw, lead designer, on DAO II:
Now, the game mainly sold on console, so we're going the way of the audienceMike Laidlaw
Link.
Wow.. I never thought to say this, but that looked meh. I really hope there is at least an option to use the semi-turn based system of Origins, which was similar to Baldur's Gate. Remember Bioware that you promised Dragon Age to be a new Baldur's Gate, that doesn't look like it.
[QUOTE="devious742"]
Does anyone remember that one article where Bioware said that even though Dragon age sold very well..that they are going to change it completely in order to be AAA title... I know that they said that:x I just cant find the article:oops:.. I would like for Bioware to take some of Peter Moore's advice...
Moore said it's important to always keep the gamers' needs in sight, so not to get carried away by chasing review scores.
"You can break Metacritic down and say 'We can get two extra points by doing this' but it may not actually enhance the gamers' experience, and that is where there is a line we have to be careful we don't cross."
He concluded: "It is a bit of a slippery slope if you focus everything on Metacritic."
waltefmoney
Here's your answer.
French Magazine Joystick (Sept. issue) interviewed Mike Laidlaw, lead designer, on DAO II:
Now, the game mainly sold on console, so we're going the way of the audienceMike Laidlaw
Link.
No that aint it.. they said that even though it sold very well..that the reviews for the consoles were very low when compared to the pc version...that they wanted to create a AAA franchise.... I thought I bookmarked since that is my forte:oops: lol1 - How is SWTOR a WoW clone? Are you basing this solely on the look of the graphics? :-/ 2 - There have been other MMO's that tried to copy World of Warcraft but did not perform as well. 3 - Every company wants its game to sell well. 'Mass appeal' isn't something bad, but how do you identify it in a RPG? How do you define it? There are a lot of RPG's that are very different from one another yet sell very well. The Witcher sold well too, so I take it that it *must* have 'mass appeal' too. Obviously since BioWare games get good ratings everywhere, there must be more to the game than simply 'mass appeal', right? Again how do you define what is 'mass appeal' in a RPG? For all we know, RPG's might not even *appeal* to most gamers. How do you know that most people who play RPG's don't prefer a unique story and interesting choices? Then by definiton, you *couldn't* do the same thing twice, since everyone would want an experience unlike the previous one. 4 - If only 'action' is sought after or is the key interest in RPG's, then why did Knights of the Old Republic or Dragon Age: Origins sell well? BioWare said it was only making the game more fast-paced ( read: *not* a hack & slash ), not ruining the tactical nature of the gameplay. The *real* problem is that you think the majority of anything must necessarily be dumb and stupid and that a subgroup of gamers ( RPG players ), no matter how *small* when compared to the general audience ( who could all be playing the Sims, for example ) will always lower the quality of a product simply because they're a majority of *something* and are unable to comprehend a more deep, meaningful experience.Bioware's main priority in game design is and has always been mass appeal. When you think of it, they are more like table top hack and slashes (tabletop games that Role Playing Games without the Role Playing part) than actual rpgs. As it happens, action sells a lot better than turn based or the formula DAO used so therefore they used that. Look at SWTOR, there is a reason it is essentially a remake of WoW with a star wars theme. I am not surprised at them changing the game from the old style to the new style, it simply sells better even though it will probably reduce its quality.
"The superior man understands what is right; the inferior man understands what will sell."-Confucius
And to Skyward: You are entitled to your opinion, but out of the upcoming RPGs I am getting (which is at least 5) Dragon Age 2 is not one of them and by the looks of it in this thread I am probably not the only one.
Maroxad
Didnt Pc Gamer Uk give Crysis a 92% and Crysis Warhead 60%..yet gave Far cry 2 a 94%:lol:Bioware's main priority in game design is and has always been mass appeal. When you think of it, they are more like table top hack and slashes (tabletop
Alec Meer from PC Gamer UKgave The Witcher a 67%, describing the plot as generic, the combat engine was poor and the main character was lifeless.
PC Gamer UK, which awarded Dragon Age: Origins a 94%, declared it the "RPG of the decade".
SkyWard20
FarCry2 94%
It's beautiful, free-roaming, utterly absorbing
It's not a linear shooter, a prescribed story, going to let you go.
Crysis Warhead 60%
It's Poorly designed, Stupid, Pretty.
It's not Original, Entirely open-ended, Adding much to Crysis
1 - How is SWTOR a WoW clone? Are you basing this solely on the look of the graphics? :-/ 2 - There have been other MMO's that tried to copy World of Warcraft but did not perform as well. 3 - Every company wants its game to sell well. 'Mass appeal' isn't something bad, but how do you identify it in a RPG? How do you define it? There are a lot of RPG's that are very different from one another yet sell very well. The Witcher sold well too, so I take it that it *must* have 'mass appeal' too. Obviously since BioWare games get good ratings everywhere, there must be more to the game than simply 'mass appeal', right? Again how do you define what is 'mass appeal' in a RPG? For all we know, RPG's might not even *appeal* to most gamers. How do you know that most people who play RPG's don't prefer a unique story and interesting choices? Then by definiton, you *couldn't* do the same thing twice, since everyone would want an experience unlike the previous one. 4 - If only 'action' is sought after or is the key interest in RPG's, then why did Knights of the Old Republic or Dragon Age: Origins sell well? BioWare said it was only making the game more fast-paced ( read: *not* a hack & slash ), not ruining the tactical nature of the gameplay. SkyWard20
1. It has hardly to do with the visuals, and more to do with the core mechanics. Although then again, WoW was a clone of previous games namely EQ
2. They didnt, but, that does not stop others from wanting to challenge it.
3. Of course mass appeal isnt a bad ther per se. Anyway, to me an RPG has been strictly about Roleplaying (see my definition on Hack and Slash vs RPG). To me an RPG involves actually roleplaying your characters (Bioware games do this to a lesser extenct) and by roleplaying we should be able to solve each or most quests multiple ways. Rather than just killing everything in various dungeons and leave with all the loot and progress the story. There should be multiple branches as well (Both DAO and BG2 had this) and completing them should naturally result in different rewards and consequences. Your characters attributes should decide what quests you can complete and what quests you can't and how you can solve each quest. Oh and did I mention choices and consequences, they tend to have choices, but from what I have seen in their game there are no meaningful concequences with most of them being nothing more than an alignment change, I would love to be proven wrong though (there are some where where an NPC says something different but that is about it).
4. I shall not deny they didnt sell well, because those were some great sales numbers, but generally compared to several action games out there or action RPG's, it didnt sell quite as well. Judging by what I saw it will be hack and slash... on the console versions. However they already stated the PC version will be similar to the previous Dragon Age game. Therefore, console gamers get a game that seem to suit the console tastes better (and will probably be better as well as such gameplay will be more suited for consoles), while we PC gamers retain what is more suitable for us. As long as they stick to their promise, thank you bioware for not lazily make a PC version without even adapting to the strengths of the PC. I meant it is actiony on consoles, which is probably not a bad thing. Correct me if I am wrong, but action RPGs sell better on CONSOLES than Traditional RPGs.
[QUOTE="shane_orija"]He's getting famous, eh? :D and after what he put in his sig, I doubt anyone would want to take him seriously. So you're saying PC Gamer UK is a joke? :-/ Not that PC Gamer UK is a joke but about how far you are taking this DA vs The Witcher thing. You liked DA, cool. You liked the new gameplay video, cool. But their isn't any need to bash on The Witcher just to prove that DA is better. I believe The Witcher to be one of the best rpgs, ever and DA to be dull, generic and boring, a bunch of review scores won't change my opinion. Anyway, I appreciate the fact that you have been respectful throughout in your posts, I've gotten accustomed seeing fanboys going into nerdrage when people don't agree with them. At least we can agree to disagree, eh?[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]
--Oh god, it's you---. SkyWard20
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="shane_orija"] He's getting famous, eh? :D and after what he put in his sig, I doubt anyone would want to take him seriously.So you're saying PC Gamer UK is a joke? :-/ Not that PC Gamer UK is a joke but about how far you are taking this DA vs The Witcher thing. You liked DA, cool. You liked the new gameplay video, cool. But their isn't any need to bash on The Witcher just to prove that DA is better. I believe The Witcher to be one of the best rpgs, ever and DA to be dull, generic and boring, a bunch of review scores won't change my opinion. Anyway, I appreciate the fact that you have been respectful throughout in your posts, I've gotten accustomed seeing fanboys going into nerdrage when people don't agree with them. At least we can agree to disagree, eh?shane_orija
I just think hacking & slashing has as much to do with Dragon Age 2 as Marilyn Manson had something to do with prime Dragon Age.
[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]Oh god, it's you. Witcher > DA:O get over it. Witcher II > DA: II anyone can tell you that now.[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] Dragon Age 2 will blow everything out of the water. You can enjoy overhyping small developers, while I enjoy good RPG's.
SkyWard20
And Blizzard, small developers? AreNet, small developers? Guild Wars II is a bigger project than DA:II way bigger.
I was talking about CD Projekt, and those are very different games from The Witcher or Dragon Age. And by the way, the first Guild Wars was a poor man's MMO and I expect the second installment to be the same. But Guild Wars wasn't a MMORPG nor was it meant to be.Please Log In to post.
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