EA: No Modding Tools With Battlefield 3

Mods is a cost, but costs are made anyway, devs make tools for themselfs and usally those are turned in to mod tools, Unreal is pure example of that, same goes with blizzard map editors.

I don't know why people feel betrayed if they had the first understanding of modern game development. I guess working in the software industry I can see it from a whole different light. I'm working on something that is considered child's play compared to a video game engine and yet I would never have done this out of the good of my heart.

Wasdie

Especially since a lot of devs do foster a strong bond with community. So when they break it off I don't see why would anyone be surprised a large part of community feels betrayed. I would actually assume there's something wrong with those people if they wouldn't.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] Right... Everyone wants free DLC and some developers do provide it. If they don't there is nothing you can do about it, I really haven't seen anyone complain about the PC version not getting free DLC, about any game. There is a reason PC games should be cheaper, it's just greedy companies keep wanting more and more, it's not enough that they don't pay royalties to MS, it's not enough that they get way better return rates with Digital Distribution, they just want more and more. They want to root out rentals and used gaming next. This is pure greed and I can't believe you are behind it. So you would have the PC turned into something useless that plays console games in HD? You do realize the kind of cheap rushed ports we've been getting right? The sales are there, and with DD they are there more than ever and the return rates are higher than ever...GeneralShowzer

You've basically say you've never seen anybody complain about the PC games not getting free DLC then go onto complain that we aren't getting free stuff and they are just being greedy...

You're basically supporting me when I say PC gamers just want special treatment. Nobody has a right to special treatment at all. When I built my new gaming computer last year I didn't build it in the hopes I could play more free content than I could get on my PS3 and 360. I did it for the games I couldn't play on my consoles or my aging PC.

I'm not trying to say I just want an expensive gaming console, however I don't see why a game developer has to go out of their way to give me free stuff. All I ask is I don't get some crappy port and so far a lot of game companies have really picked up the slack with that.

DLC is made by professionals and it's their job...Or they just cut it out from the original game most of the time and chatge 10$ for it on release..

And also..the content is not free, you are still paying 60$ for the game. It's just a feature that is very possible and was very popular in BF2.

I really don't get this...You are trying to turn this into something else, saying PC gamers are self entitled or something because they want a feature already available in tons of other games. In BF3 it's even more important giving how modding was in BF2.

Dice likes to talk crap about other developers, but they are just as bad as the rest,

because like most other dev's why pander to a minority?

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

You've basically say you've never seen anybody complain about the PC games not getting free DLC then go onto complain that we aren't getting free stuff and they are just being greedy...

You're basically supporting me when I say PC gamers just want special treatment. Nobody has a right to special treatment at all. When I built my new gaming computer last year I didn't build it in the hopes I could play more free content than I could get on my PS3 and 360. I did it for the games I couldn't play on my consoles or my aging PC.

I'm not trying to say I just want an expensive gaming console, however I don't see why a game developer has to go out of their way to give me free stuff. All I ask is I don't get some crappy port and so far a lot of game companies have really picked up the slack with that.

Wasdie

I don't know why people feel betrayed if they had the first understanding of modern game development. I guess working in the software industry I can see it from a whole different light. I'm working on something that is considered child's play compared to a video game engine and yet I would never have done this out of the good of my heart.

So you're saying that it should only be about the money. Everything should eb a cost/benefit analysis?

Fine, it works that way too. Building bridges to your community extends the life of your game and therefore increases the size of your fanbase, and extends the loyalty of your fan base. Things that are important to your bottom line.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

You've basically say you've never seen anybody complain about the PC games not getting free DLC then go onto complain that we aren't getting free stuff and they are just being greedy...

You're basically supporting me when I say PC gamers just want special treatment. Nobody has a right to special treatment at all. When I built my new gaming computer last year I didn't build it in the hopes I could play more free content than I could get on my PS3 and 360. I did it for the games I couldn't play on my consoles or my aging PC.

I'm not trying to say I just want an expensive gaming console, however I don't see why a game developer has to go out of their way to give me free stuff. All I ask is I don't get some crappy port and so far a lot of game companies have really picked up the slack with that.

razgriz_101

DLC is made by professionals and it's their job...Or they just cut it out from the original game most of the time and chatge 10$ for it on release..

And also..the content is not free, you are still paying 60$ for the game. It's just a feature that is very possible and was very popular in BF2.

I really don't get this...You are trying to turn this into something else, saying PC gamers are self entitled or something because they want a feature already available in tons of other games. In BF3 it's even more important giving how modding was in BF2.

Dice likes to talk crap about other developers, but they are just as bad as the rest,

because like most other dev's why pander to a minority?

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

But mod support is a pure cost for a developer, you just want free content at the cost of the developer sinking a lot of time into mod tools. When they are a part of a game it's a great bonus, but when they are not there is no reason to get upset like people do. Mods don't make or break games nor do they sell more copies in this day and age. Today we expect a quality game from day one full of content and polish, not a half-assed game so the modders can finish off what the developers started.

Also you keep blaming DICE when DICE has nothing to do with this at all. If it was up to them, they would have community mod support. This is obviously EA's decision, and one that has a lot of justification behind it.

Good modding tools and support is a pure cost with little no reward. How many BF2 mods were there that got any real completion? Two. Those were made by dedicated teams of amateur developers. Everybody crying out for mod support only wants it so that these development teams can remake their mods from scratch so that they can get free content at others expenses.

In this day and age a game engine needs to be specifically designed to support mods. The two biggest examples are the UDK and now the CryEngine 3 with it's full SDK coming shortly. These engines were made for the sake of selling to smaller developers and making free games to get their engine exposure. It's a costly business strategy to make their engine developer friendly enough to put it out and support it. There is nothing super complicated with either of the engines and they both come from a long line of game engines with years of support. The Frostebite 2.0 engine has some major advantages that no company would dare give out for free. It's stupid.

You're wrong, and I have explained why you are wrong. It's not a pure cost when player made content helps shift copies, long after the core game has lost people's interest.

Counter Strike, Natural Selection, Team Fortress. How many of these games wouldn't have existed, if it wasn't for the modding community?

But if you rejected my point, you will likely reject it again. I'm just saying, I think you are completely wrong, and even have a hint of aggression towards the PC crowd in your comments.

I even said that in this day and age mods don't push copies. It was far different back when those mods were coming out. You only gave me 3 examples of games created on the half-life engine from 1998 when modding made up for a lack of game content.

Simple, mods don't push games like they used to. If they did, do you think people would snub out mod tools so fast? Hell no. This is a damn business. You do what you need to do to sell games and make money. You all seem to forget that. Everybody just thinks developers are out to kill video games and put out useless DLC that nobody buys.

Also do you know the reason why ArmA 3 was able to be made? It wasn't the mod support. BI clearly stated it was the digital distribution and the 2 DLC packs they put out. Even though I coudl have gotten all of that content in those DLC packs for free with mods, they still somehow sold. Yup, mods sold that game alright. If it wasn't for the DLC they put out, there would be no ArmA 3.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]]

Also do you know the reason why ArmA 3 was able to be made? It wasn't the mod support. BI clearly stated it was the digital distribution and the 2 DLC packs they put out. Even though I coudl have gotten all of that content in those DLC packs for free with mods, they still somehow sold. Yup, mods sold that game alright. If it wasn't for the DLC they put out, there would be no ArmA 3.

Actually the reason those DLCs were able to sell is because BI came out with Operation Arrowhead that fixed the majority of bugs with the engine. I find 10x the vanilla servers than I see modded servers. I see tons of custom missions, but a basic map-editor is not the same as full mod support.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

You've basically say you've never seen anybody complain about the PC games not getting free DLC then go onto complain that we aren't getting free stuff and they are just being greedy...

You're basically supporting me when I say PC gamers just want special treatment. Nobody has a right to special treatment at all. When I built my new gaming computer last year I didn't build it in the hopes I could play more free content than I could get on my PS3 and 360. I did it for the games I couldn't play on my consoles or my aging PC.

I'm not trying to say I just want an expensive gaming console, however I don't see why a game developer has to go out of their way to give me free stuff. All I ask is I don't get some crappy port and so far a lot of game companies have really picked up the slack with that.

razgriz_101

DLC is made by professionals and it's their job...Or they just cut it out from the original game most of the time and chatge 10$ for it on release..

And also..the content is not free, you are still paying 60$ for the game. It's just a feature that is very possible and was very popular in BF2.

I really don't get this...You are trying to turn this into something else, saying PC gamers are self entitled or something because they want a feature already available in tons of other games. In BF3 it's even more important giving how modding was in BF2.

Dice likes to talk crap about other developers, but they are just as bad as the rest,

because like most other dev's why pander to a minority?

Do we need to really whip out the charts again?

When I posted my thread about the new market share that shows the giant that is Pc gmaing in the biz, a bunch of hypocrite consolites jumped on me, saying that "no one says PC is dead or the minority, so you're just trolling!".

Well, your post is my cite.

PC gamers are NOT a minority to be dismissed. Hell, the previsou battlefield 2 game (bad company 2) sold MORE on PC that on consoles. And over 50% of sale son PC are digital, and a digital sale makes 2-3 times as much money as a console retail sale. So PC gamers made a LOT more money for Dice than consoles.

DLC is not the same as user made content...You want people to pay for user made content now?

DLC is made by professionals and it's their job...Or they just cut it out from the original game most of the time and chatge 10$ for it on release..

And also..the content is not free, you are still paying 60$ for the game. It's just a feature that is very possible and was very popular in BF2.

I really don't get this...You are trying to turn this into something else, saying PC gamers are self entitled or something because they want a feature already available in tons of other games. In BF3 it's even more important giving how modding was in BF2.

Dice likes to talk crap about other developers, but they are just as bad as the rest,

GeneralShowzer

The user content is free, but the cost of developing the tools for that user content gets put on the developer and publisher.

I also don't see other developers re-writing their engine from the ground up in DX10 and DX11 to get the absolute most performance out of current hardware. Crytek sure as hell didn't as well as pretty much every other major PC developer.

The PC version of BF3 is already going to be far superior in graphics, scale, and gameplay options. This isn't just a little added features towards the end, the game is going to play completley different on the PC than it will on consoles all becasue they are building it for the PC first. So I wouldn't call DICE as bad as the rest. They could have just given us Bad Company 3.

The first page put an end to this thread... PC gamers are now complaining that their years of special treatment has ended and feel they don't deserve this, in the 90's everything was PC and was a Utopia compared to now. Just get with the times and deal with the fact Frostbite has gotten too complex to simply let everyone loose on it.JohnF111

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] DLC is not the same as user made content...You want people to pay for user made content now?

DLC is made by professionals and it's their job...Or they just cut it out from the original game most of the time and chatge 10$ for it on release..

And also..the content is not free, you are still paying 60$ for the game. It's just a feature that is very possible and was very popular in BF2.

I really don't get this...You are trying to turn this into something else, saying PC gamers are self entitled or something because they want a feature already available in tons of other games. In BF3 it's even more important giving how modding was in BF2.

Dice likes to talk crap about other developers, but they are just as bad as the rest,

GeneralShowzer

because like most other dev's why pander to a minority?

Not every PC player is going to want mods "brah"

Its a simple open and shut case of propietory engine, costs to develope end user mod tools and no cash flow return.Simple in this day and age mods are slowly becoming unsustainable for some developers the industry itself has changed over the past decade drastically, sure if it was UE 3 i would be scratching my head why there wasnt mod support but Frostbite is their tools and gear so its up to them what they do with it.

The industry itself is evolving and changing rapidly the only ones who seem to be stuck in a time of the early 2000's is hermits and their ideology that they should still get something like mod support even tho the market and platform they claim to defend on this board is just as bad as consoles for the nickling and the diming in some cases, pretty sure BC2 Vietnam sold well on PC, along with many other "rip off" DLC's as hermits call them.

[QUOTE="JohnF111"]The first page put an end to this thread... PC gamers are now complaining that their years of special treatment has ended and feel they don't deserve this, in the 90's everything was PC and was a Utopia compared to now. Just get with the times and deal with the fact Frostbite has gotten too complex to simply let everyone loose on it.AdrianWerner

Sorry but why do PC gamers think of themselves as much better.

Jesus christ its a game some of you sound just as bad as those folks with hybrids on South park or Mac users who think they are the greatest invention since sliced bread and some how think they have some form of entitlement to everything.

There's a lot of burden that comes with releasing modding tools for a big, mainstream game. Just off the top of my head...

1. You have to clean up bugs in your development tools
2. You have to generate documentation for your development tools
3. You have to make it easy for people to install your development tools (it has to just work through an installer)
4. You run a much higher risk of people exposing bugs in the engine (or even some weird hidden content, like with Hot Coffee)
5. You run the risk of someone explointing a security hole to do something malicious on the user's computer
6. You run the risk of someone making something that could attract negative press because people find it offensive

I'd imagine a big company like EA might look at such a list and only see too much potential for losing sales without enough potential for actual gaining any sales. But who knows, they might still do it. Even if they do eventually release mod tools, they're going to deny it until they day they're 100% sure about it.

Teufelhuhn

This man knows what's up. Also keep in mind, BF3 is running on a brand spanking new ludicrously powerful engine. Even if they DID give out mod tools, it's laughable to think they would be used.

[QUOTE="JohnF111"]The first page put an end to this thread... PC gamers are now complaining that their years of special treatment has ended and feel they don't deserve this, in the 90's everything was PC and was a Utopia compared to now. Just get with the times and deal with the fact Frostbite has gotten too complex to simply let everyone loose on it.AdrianWerner

DLC is not the same as user made content...You want people to pay for user made content now?

DLC is made by professionals and it's their job...Or they just cut it out from the original game most of the time and chatge 10$ for it on release..

And also..the content is not free, you are still paying 60$ for the game. It's just a feature that is very possible and was very popular in BF2.

I really don't get this...You are trying to turn this into something else, saying PC gamers are self entitled or something because they want a feature already available in tons of other games. In BF3 it's even more important giving how modding was in BF2.

Dice likes to talk crap about other developers, but they are just as bad as the rest,

GeneralShowzer

The user content is free, but the cost of developing the tools for that user content gets put on the developer and publisher.

I also don't see other developers re-writing their engine from the ground up in DX10 and DX11 to get the absolute most performance out of current hardware. Crytek sure as hell didn't as well as pretty much every other major PC developer.

The PC version of BF3 is already going to be far superior in graphics, scale, and gameplay options. This isn't just a little added features towards the end, the game is going to play completley different on the PC than it will on consoles all becasue they are building it for the PC first. So I wouldn't call DICE as bad as the rest. They could have just given us Bad Company 3.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

DLC is not the same as user made content...You want people to pay for user made content now?

DLC is made by professionals and it's their job...Or they just cut it out from the original game most of the time and chatge 10$ for it on release..

And also..the content is not free, you are still paying 60$ for the game. It's just a feature that is very possible and was very popular in BF2.

I really don't get this...You are trying to turn this into something else, saying PC gamers are self entitled or something because they want a feature already available in tons of other games. In BF3 it's even more important giving how modding was in BF2.

Dice likes to talk crap about other developers, but they are just as bad as the rest,

GeneralShowzer

The user content is free, but the cost of developing the tools for that user content gets put on the developer and publisher.

I also don't see other developers re-writing their engine from the ground up in DX10 and DX11 to get the absolute most performance out of current hardware. Crytek sure as hell didn't as well as pretty much every other major PC developer.

The PC version of BF3 is already going to be far superior in graphics, scale, and gameplay options. This isn't just a little added features towards the end, the game is going to play completley different on the PC than it will on consoles all becasue they are building it for the PC first. So I wouldn't call DICE as bad as the rest. They could have just given us Bad Company 3.

In this day and age of cost cutting and profit, why keep in soemthing that wont generate revenue? its as simple as that.Dont see why you folks feel like your entitled to these things..your gamers like the rest of us people enjoy it instead of whinging bout things that only a minority care about..mind you on here a very vocal minority who think they are better than most other gamers :roll:

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]I don't know why you're so surprised. Very often PC get either a special treatement or it gets shafted. So no wonder peoeple get attached to those companies who do the former and then feel betrayed if the company shifts to later treatement.

Kinthalis

I don't know why people feel betrayed if they had the first understanding of modern game development. I guess working in the software industry I can see it from a whole different light. I'm working on something that is considered child's play compared to a video game engine and yet I would never have done this out of the good of my heart.

So you're saying that it should only be about the money. Everything should eb a cost/benefit analysis?

Fine, it works that way too. Building bridges to your community extends the life of your game and therefore increases the size of your fanbase, and extends the loyalty of your fan base. Things that are important to your bottom line.

If you don't work in the industry and don't ACTUALLY/PHYSICALLY crunch and work with the numbers, work schedule, budgets and bottom line, then the only real clue you or anyone else has are the romantic notions of gamers who THINK they understand how these things work.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

because like most other dev's why pander to a minority?

razgriz_101

Not every PC player is going to want mods "brah"

Its a simple open and shut case of propietory engine, costs to develope end user mod tools and no cash flow return.Simple in this day and age mods are slowly becoming unsustainable for some developers the industry itself has changed over the past decade drastically, sure if it was UE 3 i would be scratching my head why there wasnt mod support but Frostbite is their tools and gear so its up to them what they do with it.

The industry itself is evolving and changing rapidly the only ones who seem to be stuck in a time of the early 2000's is hermits and their ideology that they should still get something like mod support even tho the market and platform they claim to defend on this board is just as bad as consoles for the nickling and the diming in some cases, pretty sure BC2 Vietnam sold well on PC, along with many other "rip off" DLC's as hermits call them.

a few very old and notable exceptions aside, mod tools generally cost alot more to make. Here's why.

http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/DevelopmentKitHome.html

See all that nice and sloppy goodness that goes into making a game on a AAA engine? (mind you, that's with your baseline aceess to the engine's core functions cutoff, which adds a whole 'nother layer of complications). Noone in their right mind wants to even approach that level of tool just to customizea game.

And that's if the engine in question has tools. Unlike...say....

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

..yeah, how bout that "Make Awesome Mod" button?

fact is it takes time to build a set of tools that areflexible enough to make something great while accessible enough to get people making stuff.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

because like most other dev's why pander to a minority?

razgriz_101

Not every PC player is going to want mods "brah"

Its a simple open and shut case of propietory engine, costs to develope end user mod tools and no cash flow return.Simple in this day and age mods are slowly becoming unsustainable for some developers the industry itself has changed over the past decade drastically, sure if it was UE 3 i would be scratching my head why there wasnt mod support but Frostbite is their tools and gear so its up to them what they do with it.

The industry itself is evolving and changing rapidly the only ones who seem to be stuck in a time of the early 2000's is hermits and their ideology that they should still get something like mod support even tho the market and platform they claim to defend on this board is just as bad as consoles for the nickling and the diming in some cases, pretty sure BC2 Vietnam sold well on PC, along with many other "rip off" DLC's as hermits call them.

So does that mean that Elder Scrolls being able to mod might show how outdated hermits claim the original games are in the first place :shock: :P

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

The user content is free, but the cost of developing the tools for that user content gets put on the developer and publisher.

I also don't see other developers re-writing their engine from the ground up in DX10 and DX11 to get the absolute most performance out of current hardware. Crytek sure as hell didn't as well as pretty much every other major PC developer.

The PC version of BF3 is already going to be far superior in graphics, scale, and gameplay options. This isn't just a little added features towards the end, the game is going to play completley different on the PC than it will on consoles all becasue they are building it for the PC first. So I wouldn't call DICE as bad as the rest. They could have just given us Bad Company 3.

razgriz_101

In this day and age of cost cutting and profit, why keep in soemthing that wont generate revenue? its as simple as that.Dont see why you folks feel like your entitled to these things..your gamers like the rest of us people enjoy it instead of whinging bout things that only a minority care about..mind you on here a very vocal minority who think they are better than most other gamers :roll:

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

There's a lot of burden that comes with releasing modding tools for a big, mainstream game. Just off the top of my head...

1. You have to clean up bugs in your development tools
2. You have to generate documentation for your development tools
3. You have to make it easy for people to install your development tools (it has to just work through an installer)
4. You run a much higher risk of people exposing bugs in the engine (or even some weird hidden content, like with Hot Coffee)
5. You run the risk of someone explointing a security hole to do something malicious on the user's computer
6. You run the risk of someone making something that could attract negative press because people find it offensive

I'd imagine a big company like EA might look at such a list and only see too much potential for losing sales without enough potential for actual gaining any sales. But who knows, they might still do it. Even if they do eventually release mod tools, they're going to deny it until they day they're 100% sure about it.

789shadow

This man knows what's up. Also keep in mind, BF3 is running on a brand spanking new ludicrously powerful engine. Even if they DID give out mod tools, it's laughable to think they would be used.

Please don't underestimate the modding community.

Sorry but why do PC gamers think of themselves as much better.

razgriz_101

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] They would have given us Bad Company 3, if BF3 wasn't in development already, for god knows how long. A lot of games this year had mod tools and editors, and Dice for boasting themselves that they do right in PC gaming...they aren't doing it very right. Oh and also, I doubt it costs tens of millions to get mod tools out, with exceptions like NWN..

GeneralShowzer

In this day and age of cost cutting and profit, why keep in soemthing that wont generate revenue? its as simple as that.Dont see why you folks feel like your entitled to these things..your gamers like the rest of us people enjoy it instead of whinging bout things that only a minority care about..mind you on here a very vocal minority who think they are better than most other gamers :roll:

yeah right you just keep dreaming your little american dream there bud.There probably are people who play vanilla oblivion out there its wrong yet again in typical hermit idiocy to think i know people on the internet that only play with mods that must mean everyone plays with mods herp de derp.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

Sorry but why do PC gamers think of themselves as much better.

AdrianWerner

oh please just get on with gaming like the rest of us and cry me a river.

Cant believe you lot are sometimes so far up your own arse.Your like those guys on the music scene who think selling out is bad, or changing musical direction is bad even though the bands formula is tired.Or that because its minor label its soo good, like games people should just accept it for what it is and get on with it.

If you don't work in the industry

TheMoreYouOwn

And can't you go on with gaming, but you have to come here and call people names? GeneralShowzer

you might want to re-read my post i accidently clicked on the submit button :) have a nice day.

oh please just get on with gaming like the rest of us and cry me a river.

Cant believe you lot are sometimes so far up your own arse.Your like those guys on the music scene who think selling out is bad, or changing musical direction is bad even though the bands formula is tired.Or that because its minor label its soo good, like games people should just accept it for what it is and get on with it.

razgriz_101

Bassicaly imagine if record publishing company would throw out your favorite guitarist from a band you love because he was too expensive and then tried to say they did it solely because his guitar playing was too hard for people like you to understand anyway. You would laught them out, but apparently doing the same thing in gaming is ok.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

If you don't work in the industry

AdrianWerner

The gaming industry is just like any other software industry when you look at it. It just has a focus on entertainment, but the methods are all the same.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

If you don't work in the industry

Wasdie

The gaming industry is just like any other software industry when you look at it. It just has a focus on entertainment, but the methods are all the same.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

Sorry but why do PC gamers think of themselves as much better.

razgriz_101

oh please just get on with gaming like the rest of us and cry me a river.

Cant believe you lot are sometimes so far up your own arse.Your like those guys on the music scene who think selling out is bad, or changing musical direction is bad even though the bands formula is tired.Or that because its minor label its soo good, like games people should just accept it for what it is and get on with it.

Why should people be content with something that is underachieving or not to their liking? But in BF3s particular case though, they arent underachieving so I can understand that point.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]From what I understand Wasdie also doesn't work in gaming industry, so it's bassicaly all blind people talking about colours.

AdrianWerner

The gaming industry is just like any other software industry when you look at it. It just has a focus on entertainment, but the methods are all the same.

Not true at all. That's what I thought before i entered this industry, but it's not true in the slightest. Business decisions may be different, but the problems you encounter are the exact same. Security risks, overhead, personnel, deadlines, resources, all of these things are the same. Sure your personnel are probably more qulified to do a different type of development, but they all run into the similar problems that the entire software industry has.

For a game that is trying to compete with Call of Duty in sales, EA sure is trying hard not to sell it to me. :?

[QUOTE="JohnF111"]The first page put an end to this thread... PC gamers are now complaining that their years of special treatment has ended and feel they don't deserve this, in the 90's everything was PC and was a Utopia compared to now. Just get with the times and deal with the fact Frostbite has gotten too complex to simply let everyone loose on it.AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

oh please just get on with gaming like the rest of us and cry me a river.

Cant believe you lot are sometimes so far up your own arse.Your like those guys on the music scene who think selling out is bad, or changing musical direction is bad even though the bands formula is tired.Or that because its minor label its soo good, like games people should just accept it for what it is and get on with it.

AdrianWerner

Bassicaly imagine if record publishing company would throw out your favorite guitarist from your band because he was to expensive and then tried to say they did it solely because his guitar playing was too hard for people like you to understand anyway. You would laught them out, but apparently doing the same thing in gaming is ok.

in any contract agreement its actually the band as a whole who agree to the contracts where the earnings from the materials (known as royalties) are paid out to the band and split equally between them if they are on the record, for example slash would still get his royalty fee's for any guns n roses material he wrote,played or otherwise took part in creating same goes for Dave Mustaine and Metallica's first album Kill Em All as he contributed to the actual work itself., its a band decision as to whether band members get kicked out or move on unless you were in a kareoke ehh i mean "talent" contest like x factor.

About 90% of the time the labels only produce and fund what the band is doing its up to the band themselves to usually get it all sorted, hire a producer and the label funds it and ships it and handles some of the promotion aspects, much of the actual promoting and gigging is usually managed by the band itself or depending on the actual size of the band the band's PR which is usually unaffiliated with the label who gets it booked and planned.

Labels dont have any real input in most cases with the bands personell, only one really big one i can think of there being a really big spat with a label and a band was Nirvana's In Utero where geffen didnt want to ship it in the produced state as they seen Steve Albini's mixing as "too raw" also another good case of label's bowwing to bands is the little old punk band known as Anti-Flag who refused major label status until they met their demands which eventually they did and then done 2 albums then went back to Sideonedummy.

TLDR Labels dont have that much management over personell except in very very very few cases or theres an Axl Rose/Billy Corgan situation.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]From what I understand Wasdie also doesn't work in gaming industry, so it's bassicaly all blind people talking about colours.

AdrianWerner

The gaming industry is just like any other software industry when you look at it. It just has a focus on entertainment, but the methods are all the same.

Alot of the same development philosophies used in game development are common to research and development philosophies across all computing disciplines.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]From what I understand Wasdie also doesn't work in gaming industry, so it's bassicaly all blind people talking about colours.

AdrianWerner

The gaming industry is just like any other software industry when you look at it. It just has a focus on entertainment, but the methods are all the same.

Alot of the same development philosophies used in game development are common to research and development philosophies across all computing disciplines.

lafigueroa

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] They would have given us Bad Company 3, if BF3 wasn't in development already, for god knows how long. A lot of games this year had mod tools and editors, and Dice for boasting themselves that they do right in PC gaming...they aren't doing it very right. Oh and also, I doubt it costs tens of millions to get mod tools out, with exceptions like NWN..

GeneralShowzer

In this day and age of cost cutting and profit, why keep in soemthing that wont generate revenue? its as simple as that.Dont see why you folks feel like your entitled to these things..your gamers like the rest of us people enjoy it instead of whinging bout things that only a minority care about..mind you on here a very vocal minority who think they are better than most other gamers :roll:

Maybe 20 years ago, when games were labors of love, but it's big business now. Stick to independent studios if you're not okay with the consequences of that.lowe0

Release the full SDK with no dumbing down with the API and put a $50 tag on it if you're worried about time loss.

Profit for them and fun for people like me.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

oh please just get on with gaming like the rest of us and cry me a river.

Cant believe you lot are sometimes so far up your own arse.Your like those guys on the music scene who think selling out is bad, or changing musical direction is bad even though the bands formula is tired.Or that because its minor label its soo good, like games people should just accept it for what it is and get on with it.

razgriz_101

Bassicaly imagine if record publishing company would throw out your favorite guitarist from your band because he was to expensive and then tried to say they did it solely because his guitar playing was too hard for people like you to understand anyway. You would laught them out, but apparently doing the same thing in gaming is ok.

in any contract agreement its actually the band as a whole who agree to the contracts where the earnings from the materials (known as royalties) are paid out to the band and split equally between them if they are on the record, for example slash would still get his royalty fee's for any guns n roses material he wrote,played or otherwise took part in creating same goes for Dave Mustaine and Metallica's first album Kill Em All as he contributed to the actual work itself., its a band decision as to whether band members get kicked out or move on unless you were in a kareoke ehh i mean "talent" contest like x factor.

About 90% of the time the labels only produce and fund what the band is doing its up to the band themselves to usually get it all sorted, hire a producer and the label funds it and ships it and handles some of the promotion aspects, much of the actual promoting and gigging is usually managed by the band itself or depending on the actual size of the band the band's PR which is usually unaffiliated with the label who gets it booked and planned.

Labels dont have any real input in most cases with the bands personell, only one really big one i can think of there being a really big spat with a label and a band was Nirvana's In Utero where geffen didnt want to ship it in the produced state as they seen Steve Albini's mixing as "too raw" also another good case of label's bowwing to bands is the little old punk band known as Anti-Flag who refused major label status until they met their demands which eventually they did and then done 2 albums then went back to Sideonedummy.

TLDR Labels dont have that much management over personell except in very very very few cases or theres an Axl Rose/Billy Corgan situation.

Yes, but the target audience behaves differently and anyone who wants to successfuly make a software (be it gaming one or not) has to take his audience into consideration.

AdrianWerner