EA: No Modding Tools With Battlefield 3

[QUOTE="lafigueroa"]

Alot of the same development philosophies used in game development are common to research and development philosophies across all computing disciplines.

AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

The gaming industry is just like any other software industry when you look at it. It just has a focus on entertainment, but the methods are all the same.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

In this day and age of cost cutting and profit, why keep in soemthing that wont generate revenue? its as simple as that.Dont see why you folks feel like your entitled to these things..your gamers like the rest of us people enjoy it instead of whinging bout things that only a minority care about..mind you on here a very vocal minority who think they are better than most other gamers :roll:

SkyWard20

I really doubt anyone plays Oblivion without mods on PC.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]No, just plain no. Industry based o selling plain tools is ruled by different rules than one based on selling entertainment.

ducati101

Well Just Cause 2 has no modding tools... just open files for edit. Same with GTA 4.

There is a big difference between leaving gameplay files able to be edited and building and documenting tools like the CryEngine 3. Remember the focus of the UDK and the CryEngine 3 was for further game development with other developers, not for internal use at a studio.

No mod tools, no purchase from me. :)

[QUOTE="ducati101"]Like I stated before, this is more likely just a business decision. If it was up to DICE they would release mod tools, but EA see it in a different way. They reckon DLC on the PC will suffer in sales if there are modding tools. What's to stop a modding team of replicating any DLC released and providing it free for all? Mods are not a right but a very welcome edition and a great bonus. BF3 will still be a great game on the PC especially. Am I a liitle dissapointed about no modding tools? Yes of course. Will it stop me from buying the game? Absolutely not. Am I surprised there will no modding tools? Nope, it's business.GeneralShowzer

Are you suggesting you somehow don't fall into the 'entitled' category? You complain about almost every mainstream title on System Wars that doesn't meet your daily, arbitrarily-assigned "developers brown-nosing PC gamers" quota.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="ducati101"]Like I stated before, this is more likely just a business decision. If it was up to DICE they would release mod tools, but EA see it in a different way. They reckon DLC on the PC will suffer in sales if there are modding tools. What's to stop a modding team of replicating any DLC released and providing it free for all? Mods are not a right but a very welcome edition and a great bonus. BF3 will still be a great game on the PC especially. Am I a liitle dissapointed about no modding tools? Yes of course. Will it stop me from buying the game? Absolutely not. Am I surprised there will no modding tools? Nope, it's business.SkyWard20

Are you suggesting you somehow don't fall into the 'entitled' category? You complain about almost every mainstream title on System Wars that doesn't meet your daily, arbitrarily-assigned "developers brown-nosing PC gamers" quota.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

If you don't work in the industry

AdrianWerner

Majority blind but not all. It comes down to where you are, career wise, in your life. From past age polls I've seen here, the average age of a SW visitor is in their late teens, which totally makes sense especially with the majority of comments posted in this thread, and others, concerning the gaming industry with respect to finances.

I'm not poking fun at teenagers, but it's just common sense...if you are say 18 years old, you haven't really spent any length of time at a full time job, especially a job which is career based simply because you're still in the learning phase, but that phase also brings very "romantic" notions about money, how money should be spent, and really just not any type of understanding of the budgeting process especially when you are talking about a large co. which employs hundreds of people. The red tape and bottom line are how financial decisions are made...not SW pandering.

Oh, and also, the creative minds that actually are responsible for the game creation, go into the industry because they have a love for the media...not because they want to be the ones making all the $$$ decisions. That's what the "Finance Dept." and the VP's do.

consoles are to blame Snyper-007

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

Yes, but the target audience behaves differently and anyone who wants to successfuly make a software (be it gaming one or not) has to take his audience into consideration.

musicalmac

I honestly don't care about BF3 not having mods, especially since even if it did the one mod I would be interested in (Project Reality) likely would never switch to BF3 anyway. What I do care about (always have and always will) is treating gamers like morons. I hated when Microsoft did it and I hate when EA does it now. If you don't have mod tools just say just that or state a real reason, do not make up such an obvious lie and expect people to swallow it.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

If you don't work in the industry

TheMoreYouOwn

Majority blind but not all. It comes down to where you are, career wise, in your life. From past age polls I've seen here, the average age of a SW visitor is in their late teens, which totally makes sense especially with the majority of comments posted in this thread, and others, concerning the gaming industry with respect to finances.

I'm not poking fun at teenagers, but it's just common sense...if you are say 18 years old, you haven't really spent any length of time at a full time job, especially a job which is career based simply because you're still in the learning phase, but that phase also brings very "romantic" notions about money, how money should be spent, and really just not any type of understanding of the budgeting process especially when you are talking about a large co. which employs hundreds of people. The red tape and bottom line are how financial decisions are made...not SW pandering.

Oh, and also, the creative minds that actually are responsible for the game creation, go into the industry because they have a love for the media...not because they want to be the ones making all the $$$ decisions. That's what the "Finance Dept." and the VP's do.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]From what I understand Wasdie also doesn't work in gaming industry, so it's bassicaly all blind people talking about colours.

AdrianWerner

Majority blind but not all. It comes down to where you are, career wise, in your life. From past age polls I've seen here, the average age of a SW visitor is in their late teens, which totally makes sense especially with the majority of comments posted in this thread, and others, concerning the gaming industry with respect to finances.

I'm not poking fun at teenagers, but it's just common sense...if you are say 18 years old, you haven't really spent any length of time at a full time job, especially a job which is career based simply because you're still in the learning phase, but that phase also brings very "romantic" notions about money, how money should be spent, and really just not any type of understanding of the budgeting process especially when you are talking about a large co. which employs hundreds of people. The red tape and bottom line are how financial decisions are made...not SW pandering.

Oh, and also, the creative minds that actually are responsible for the game creation, go into the industry because they have a love for the media...not because they want to be the ones making all the $$$ decisions. That's what the "Finance Dept." and the VP's do.

And good thing I'm 36 and make my living as a gaming animator/modelor/conceptual artist. :)

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

Majority blind but not all. It comes down to where you are, career wise, in your life. From past age polls I've seen here, the average age of a SW visitor is in their late teens, which totally makes sense especially with the majority of comments posted in this thread, and others, concerning the gaming industry with respect to finances.

I'm not poking fun at teenagers, but it's just common sense...if you are say 18 years old, you haven't really spent any length of time at a full time job, especially a job which is career based simply because you're still in the learning phase, but that phase also brings very "romantic" notions about money, how money should be spent, and really just not any type of understanding of the budgeting process especially when you are talking about a large co. which employs hundreds of people. The red tape and bottom line are how financial decisions are made...not SW pandering.

Oh, and also, the creative minds that actually are responsible for the game creation, go into the industry because they have a love for the media...not because they want to be the ones making all the $$$ decisions. That's what the "Finance Dept." and the VP's do.

TheMoreYouOwn

And good thing I'm 36 and make my living as a gaming animator/modelor/conceptual artist. :)

Depends on the game. Of course BF3 is a big multiplat game and arcade shooter. So at best only 1/3 of your audience will be able to access mods and players of arcade FPSes of this sort aren't likely to engage in lot of modding.

I honestly don't care about BF3 not having mods, especially since even if it did the one mod I would be interested in (Project Reality) likely would never switch to BF3 anyway. What I do care about (always have and always will) is treating gamers like morons. I hated when Microsoft did it and I hate when EA does it now. If you don't have mod tools just say just that or state a real reason, do not make up such an obvious lie and expect people to swallow it.

AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Well..good thing I'm 29 years old and I make my living as a gaming journalist then :)

Heil68

And good thing I'm 36 and make my living as a gaming animator/modelor/conceptual artist. :)

Ok. I gotta admit...that got me rolling. :lol:

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Well..good thing I'm 29 years old and I make my living as a gaming journalist then :)

Heil68

And good thing I'm 36 and make my living as a gaming animator/modelor/conceptual artist. :)

:lol: You win!

[QUOTE="Snyper-007"]consoles are to blame Phoenix534

Don't blame consoles. Blame EA and DICE and, to some point, Activision. If it wasn't for DLC and map packs, mod tools would be in here.

Old News. We knew this at E3.

[QUOTE="ducati101"][QUOTE="lowe0"] Maybe 20 years ago, when games were labors of love, but it's big business now. Stick to independent studios if you're not okay with the consequences of that.Wasdie

Well Just Cause 2 has no modding tools... just open files for edit. Same with GTA 4.

There is a big difference between leaving gameplay files able to be edited and building and documenting tools like the CryEngine 3. Remember the focus of the UDK and the CryEngine 3 was for further game development with other developers, not for internal use at a studio.

I'm kind of glad I never got into playing with mods. That way it's not a big deal to me if a game doesn't support them :P.

No mod tools, no purchase from me. :)

organic_machine

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

I really doubt anyone plays Oblivion without mods on PC. ducati101

i'll bold out the key parts there :P thats a personal experience, it differs from person to person.

I'm not suprised. We are talking about EA. Oh well, I won't buy BF3. I have Skyrim, and RO2 to look forward to.

EDIT: And RO2 is $20 cheaper, and comes with mod tools;)

[QUOTE="ducati101"]

You would be wrong.SkyWard20

i'll bold out the key parts there :P thats a personal experience, it differs from person to person.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="ducati101"] TBH I don't know anyone who played Oblivion (PC) unmodded. Each to their own I guess.

ducati101

i'll bold out the key parts there :P thats a personal experience, it differs from person to person.

I've had a quick shot of it but bout everyone knows it was a poorly designed game full stop.Only thing that kept me playing was the world was fun to just roam around in :P and massacaring the townspeople.

I'm not suprised. We are talking about EA. Oh well, I won't buy BF3. I have Skyrim, and RO2 to look forward to.

EDIT: And RO2 is $20 cheaper, and comes with mod tools;)

lordreaven

A game developed on the UDK. Cheaper and has mod tools (that were built by epic years ago) compared to a game engine that is still in development, uses full DX11 support...

I'm not suprised. We are talking about EA. Oh well, I won't buy BF3. I have Skyrim, and RO2 to look forward to.

EDIT: And RO2 is $20 cheaper, and comes with mod tools;)

lordreaven

this tbh is a very very very petty reason not to buy one of the best looking games coming out in November :S

[QUOTE="ducati101"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

i'll bold out the key parts there :P thats a personal experience, it differs from person to person.

I've had a quick shot of it but bout everyone knows it was a poorly designed game full stop.Only thing that kept me playing was the world was fun to just roam around in :P and massacaring the townspeople.

I'm not suprised. We are talking about EA. Oh well, I won't buy BF3. I have Skyrim, and RO2 to look forward to.

EDIT: And RO2 is $20 cheaper, and comes with mod tools;)

Where did the 1/3rd number come from? musicalmac

Because it's on three platforms. Most likely PC version would be the only one with mods, so at most 1/3 of the audience would have access to mods.

If you think 'gamers' are being treated like idiots, debating with a bunch of other 'gamers' isn't the best way to go about making a point.musicalmac

DICE aren't lazy, they're just told to spend their time creating content which can be used for a secondary revenue stream. The additional sales mods would have brought is insignificant in comparison to the money brought in from selling DLC. Prioritizing what drives profits, that's all this is about.

Disappointing, considering the legacy, and the indecisive but hopeful messages relayed by DICE. This condescending BS excuse makes it worse.

[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"][QUOTE="Snyper-007"]consoles are to blame ferret-gamer

I love how if it got mod tools pc gamers would be like "OMG PC>CONSOLES" and now that they know it doesnt their like "IT DOESNT NEED IT EVEN THOUGH BAD COMPANY 2 HAD SO LITTLE CONTENT!"

Because it's on three platforms. Most likely PC version would be the only one with mods, so at most 1/3 of the audience would have access to mods.

Using this logic discussing anything game related is pretty much useless at this forum. And the point? I'm just voicing my displeasure, that's all. You're free to ignore my posts if it bugs you so much :)

AdrianWerner

Let's be honest with ourselves here. They scrapped mod tools so they can force PC to buy the DLC packs. The only one to blame here is clearly EA, because we all know who pulled those kind of strings. Mystic-G

I don't know where this thread took the wrong turn when I saw stuff like :

- Modding is costing millions of dollars and is killing developers

- DLC is saving gaming

- Wanting user made content is entitlement

- Modders are slaving against their own free will to give free content to entitled spoiled gamers...

BF fanboys are taking it too far.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]Let's be honest with ourselves here. They scrapped mod tools so they can force PC to buy the DLC packs. The only one to blame here is clearly EA, because we all know who pulled those kind of strings. GeneralShowzer

I don't know where this thread took the wrong turn when I saw stuff like :

- Modding is costing millions of dollars and is killing developers

- DLC is saving gaming

- Wanting user made content is entitlement

- Modders are slaving against their own free will to give free content to entitled spoiled gamers...

BF fanboys are taking it too far.

Modding tools do cost a lot of money and no longer justify the small amount of revenue they bring in. Crying that you aren't getting mod tools and saying you won't buy the game because of that is entitlement. You aren't entitled to free content. There is nothing written anywhere that says a developer has to release mod tools and games sell fine without them. Obviously it's something we all wouldn't have, but people base their purchase of a game solely if they can get free content that other platforms cannot. That's entitlement.

I don't know where you got that last point either. If a modder wants to waste his/her time over some over-entitled group of gamers, let them.

Considering how arrogant PC gamers are on this board I would like to say I smiled when reading the title.racing1750

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]Let's be honest with ourselves here. They scrapped mod tools so they can force PC to buy the DLC packs. The only one to blame here is clearly EA, because we all know who pulled those kind of strings. Wasdie

I don't know where this thread took the wrong turn when I saw stuff like :

- Modding is costing millions of dollars and is killing developers

- DLC is saving gaming

- Wanting user made content is entitlement

- Modders are slaving against their own free will to give free content to entitled spoiled gamers...

BF fanboys are taking it too far.

Modding tools do cost a lot of money and no longer justify the small amount of revenue they bring in. Crying that you aren't getting mod tools and saying you won't buy the game because of that is entitlement. You aren't entitled to free content. There is nothing written anywhere that says a developer has to release mod tools and games sell fine without them. Obviously it's something we all wouldn't have, but people base their purchase of a game solely if they can get free content that other platforms cannot. That's entitlement.

I don't know where you got that last point either. If a modder wants to waste his/her time over some over-entitled group of gamers, let them.

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

I'm not suprised. We are talking about EA. Oh well, I won't buy BF3. I have Skyrim, and RO2 to look forward to.

EDIT: And RO2 is $20 cheaper, and comes with mod tools;)

ducati101

EDIT: I'm one of the PC gamers who actually says they won't buy $60 PC games and means it

[QUOTE="racing1750"]Considering how arrogant PC gamers are on this board I would like to say I smiled when reading the title.Snyper-007

So much for PC being the primary platform.

So much for PC being the primary platform.

DarkLink77

Obviously it's something we all wouldn't have, but people base their purchase of a game solely if they can get free content that other platforms cannot. That's entitlement.

Wasdie

You say people aren't entitled to free content and that's true, but you sound almost like you think devs are entitled to expect from gamers to ignore lack of modding when making decisions about their purchases.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

So much for PC being the primary platform.

ducati101

So much for PC being the primary platform.

DarkLink77

Yeah becuase writing the whole engine in DX10 and using DX11 lighting effects as the core of the engine means it was made for consoles...