Games With Bad Gameplay Are Masterpieces Now? The Disease of Cinematic Design

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Oh, look I'm replying, though reading long-ass run on sentences is a pain. Punctuation is your friend. ;) So, limiting you to a slew of context sensitive actions that will be the same every time so that someone at Naughty Dog can practice for being a film director when they grow is good design? Yeah, no, sorry. Those segments of gameplay will play the same each and every time you go through them, so I'm absolutely right. Moving on. No, making sequences with no room to let the player do anything except play it the way the designers intended for you to play it is not good game design. It's actually really bad game design. That's called making an interactive movie, and that's bad.MuayThaiFTW

you didn't read my post and you didn't reply, congrats for another fail.

I'm mad because I don't want to play Uncharted and I can't find games where gameplay comes first despite there being tons of those types of games released.TheRealistyk

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I clarified my post, because I realized I was making implications I did not intend to make.

There are several problems here.

1. You're upset that people value Uncharted when you don't.

2. You have ideas of what games "should" and "shouldn't" be.

ChubbyGuy40

1. He's upset they can't properly translate their thoughts to a review score.

2. Everybody does, but that was never the point of this topic.

At this point, I comprehend his position better than you do.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I clarified my post, because I realized I was making implications I did not intend to make.

There are several problems here.

1. You're upset that people value Uncharted when you don't.

2. You have ideas of what games "should" and "shouldn't" be.

hakanakumono

1. He's upset they can't properly translate their thoughts to a review score.

2. Everybody does, but that was never the point of this topic.

At this point, I comprehend his position better than you do.

At this point, I comprehend his position better than you do.

hakanakumono

You can't comprehend something you never did in the first place.

You simply fooled yourself into thinking you "figured him out," when you can't even understand the OP.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I clarified my post, because I realized I was making implications I did not intend to make.

There are several problems here.

1. You're upset that people value Uncharted when you don't.

2. You have ideas of what games "should" and "shouldn't" be.

ChubbyGuy40

1. He's upset they can't properly translate their thoughts to a review score.

2. Everybody does, but that was never the point of this topic.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I clarified my post, because I realized I was making implications I did not intend to make.

There are several problems here.

1. You're upset that people value Uncharted when you don't.

2. You have ideas of what games "should" and "shouldn't" be.

MuayThaiFTW

1. He's upset they can't properly translate their thoughts to a review score.

2. Everybody does, but that was never the point of this topic.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]Blah blah blah, i hate uncharted, blah blah blah. seriously though, the gameplay was almost perfect to me. Nothing to complain about. Who cares if it's a cinematic game that guides you the whole way? Games like this add to the variety of games that are out there. We dont need every game to be open world or any other specific genre.DarkLink77

You're just not owning up to the implications of your argument.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="MuayThaiFTW"] I'm not going to give you the attention you crave anymore. Go back under your bridgeMuayThaiFTW

Says the level 5 alt account that can't comprehend a real SW thread.

I don't think ChubbyGuy is Dark Link or has any particular need to be his "cheerleader." He's just a sheep and they tend to hold these kinds of viewpoints.

So basically this thread is about you worrying about big budgeted games in the future possibly being hauled as masterpieces when gameplay isn't up to par?

Just to make sure I understand.

Dear MuayThaiFTW,

Dude, you sound like you have developed a serious hatred of this man based upon his perceptions of the gaming industry over the internet. Calm down a bit. If you don't agree fine, but do you seriously think posting insults directly towards DarkLink are going to make him change his position or make yours more correct?

You accuse him of trolling but that's exactly what you're doing. Chill.

So basically this thread is about you worrying about big budgeted games in the future possibly being hauled as masterpieces when gameplay isn't up to par?

Just to make sure I understand.

TheRealistyk

As long as you agree with him, I'm sure you'll "understand."

[QUOTE="MuayThaiFTW"] I'm not going to give you the attention you crave anymore. Go back under your bridgeChubbyGuy40

Says the level 5 alt account that can't comprehend a real SW thread.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

1. He's upset they can't properly translate their thoughts to a review score.

2. Everybody does, but that was never the point of this topic.

DarkLink77

At this point, I comprehend his position better than you do.

All arguments are opinions. This thread is about yours.

Except not everybody forces their opinion of what a game should be down our throats *cough* dark link The man is so narrow minded, actually he is quite delusionalMuayThaiFTW

Was never about his opinions, you troll.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="MuayThaiFTW"] I'm not going to give you the attention you crave anymore. Go back under your bridgeMuayThaiFTW

Says the level 5 alt account that can't comprehend a real SW thread.

Says the level 5 alt account that lacks the ability to post on their real account.

DarkLink won't let someone as lowly as me hang out with him, so I have to cheer from the side.

All arguments are opinions. This thread is about yours.

hakanakumono

No it isn't. Told you that you still never understood it.

[QUOTE="MuayThaiFTW"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Says the level 5 alt account that can't comprehend a real SW thread.

hakanakumono

I don't think ChubbyGuy is Dark Link or has any particular need to be his "cheerleader." He's just a sheep and they tend to hold these kinds of viewpoints.

I don't think ChubbyGuy is Dark Link or has any particular need to be his "cheerleader." He's just a sheep and they tend to hold these kinds of viewpoints.

hakanakumono

I'm not DarkLink, but I'm a hermit first and sheep-cow second.

[QUOTE="MuayThaiFTW"] Except not everybody forces their opinion of what a game should be down our throats *cough* dark link The man is so narrow minded, actually he is quite delusionalChubbyGuy40

Was never about his opinions, you troll.

Lol, a thread where he gives his opinions is not about his opinions?

Those segments of gameplay will play the same each and every time you go through them, so I'm absolutely right. Moving on. No, making sequences with no room to let the player do anything except play it the way the designers intended for you to play it is not good game design. It's actually really bad game design. That's called making an interactive movie, and that's bad.

Oh look, his opinions of "what a game should be."

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

All arguments are opinions. This thread is about yours.

ChubbyGuy40

No it isn't. Told you that you still never understood it.

Every thread where you make an argument is about an opinions by default. Almost all threads in SW, if not all threads in SW are about opinions.

Lol, a thread where he gives his opinions is not about his opinions?

Those segments of gameplay will play the same each and every time you go through them, so I'm absolutely right. Moving on. No, making sequences with no room to let the player do anything except play it the way the designers intended for you to play it is not good game design. It's actually really bad game design. That's called making an interactive movie, and that's bad.

Oh look, his opinions of "what a game should be."

hakanakumono

He can't give his opinion on the game? I didn't know he wasn't allowed to express what he thinks of Uncharted, despite it not being the point of the thread. I don't know where that came up, but I'm pretty damn sure it was in response to someone else who thought he was just bashing Uncharted.

Regardless, he's correct.

This is my real account. But why dont you get a life outside these forums. Better yet why don't you and dark link get a hotel?MuayThaiFTW

Sure it is. Quite easy to say complete BS on the internet and act as if it's the truth. I'm not allowed to have a life because Blizzard refuses to allow me.

You have as if I haven't tried.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Lol, a thread where he gives his opinions is not about his opinions?

Those segments of gameplay will play the same each and every time you go through them, so I'm absolutely right. Moving on. No, making sequences with no room to let the player do anything except play it the way the designers intended for you to play it is not good game design. It's actually really bad game design. That's called making an interactive movie, and that's bad.

Oh look, his opinions of "what a game should be."

ChubbyGuy40

He can't give his opinion on the game? I didn't know he wasn't allowed to express what he thinks of Uncharted, despite it not being the point of the thread. I don't know where that came up, but I'm pretty damn sure it was in response to someone else who thought he was just bashing Uncharted.

Regardless, he's correct.

I'm not saying that he can't give an opinon on the game. Sure he can. Everyone is entitled to holding their own opinions. I'm saying that he's wrong for suggesting what a game "should" and "shouldn't be." Like chutebox said, it's narrowminded.

There's nothing wrong with games being designed like uncharted.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Oh, look I'm replying, though reading long-ass run on sentences is a pain. Punctuation is your friend. ;) So, limiting you to a slew of context sensitive actions that will be the same every time so that someone at Naughty Dog can practice for being a film director when they grow is good design? Yeah, no, sorry. Those segments of gameplay will play the same each and every time you go through them, so I'm absolutely right. Moving on. No, making sequences with no room to let the player do anything except play it the way the designers intended for you to play it is not good game design. It's actually really bad game design. That's called making an interactive movie, and that's bad.DarkLink77

you didn't read my post and you didn't reply, congrats for another fail.

:lol: yo funny.

you are just covering up with these supposed smartass looking posts because you can't handle my excellence in debate lol.

There's nothing wrong with games being designed like uncharted.

hakanakumono

BUT THERE'S EVERYTHING WRONG WHEN IT SUCKS AT JUST PLAYING THE GAME.

Cinematic design is fine, but when it's a pain in the ass to perform simple manuvers, and you're not allowed to take out the crowd of enemies how you'd like to (Can't pick and choose your targets with silent takedowns unless it tells you to do so, or else you'll alert the whole ****ing planet,) then yes the game did not deserve the score and should be rated down for failing to get basic, core elements.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

There's nothing wrong with games being designed like uncharted.

ChubbyGuy40

BUT THERE'S EVERYTHING WRONG WHEN IT SUCKS AT JUST PLAYING THE GAME.

Cinematic design is fine, but when it's a pain in the ass to perform simple manuvers, and you're not allowed to take out the crowd of enemies how you'd like to (Can't pick and choose your targets with silent takedowns unless it tells you to do so, or else you'll alert the whole ****ing planet,) then yes the game did not deserve the score and should be rated down for failing to get basic, core elements.

I thought this wasn't about Uncharted specifically? I can't speak for UC3. I thought UC1 was fine, never got past that really because I'm not terribly fond of shooters.

I couldn't really care less if Uncharted 3 is a bad game or not. What I'm taking issue with is the idea that games shouldn't be designed like Uncharted, which is what he is suggesting.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

you didn't read my post and you didn't reply, congrats for another fail.

HAZE-Unit

:lol: yo funny.

you are just covering up with these supposed smartass looking posts because you can't handle my excellence in debate lol.

:lol: yo funny.

you are just covering up with these supposed smartass looking posts because you can't handle my excellence in debate lol.

HAZE-Unit

You mean that poorly structured wall of text that suggested Uncharted had good shooting mechanics and Chateau was a good level?

Also just because I can, it seemed your period button is missing from your keyboard and you used a comma as a substitute. I provided a period for you to copy/paste in the future.

.

I thought this wasn't about Uncharted specifically? I can't speak for UC3. I thought UC1 was fine, never got past that really because I'm not terribly fond of shooters.

I couldn't really care less if Uncharted 3 is a bad game or not. What I'm taking issue with is the idea that games shouldn't be designed like Uncharted, which is what he is suggesting.

hakanakumono

It's not. You should play UC3 because it's far different from what I understand. I never played UC1 either, but I do own UC2.

No it isn't. It's with the REVIEWS and how they are judged. It said so right in the OP that you supposedly read.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

There's nothing wrong with games being designed like uncharted.

ChubbyGuy40

BUT THERE'S EVERYTHING WRONG WHEN IT SUCKS AT JUST PLAYING THE GAME.

Cinematic design is fine, but when it's a pain in the ass to perform simple manuvers, and you're not allowed to take out the crowd of enemies how you'd like to (Can't pick and choose your targets with silent takedowns unless it tells you to do so, or else you'll alert the whole ****ing planet,) then yes the game did not deserve the score and should be rated down for failing to get basic, core elements.

Did you hate Heavy Rain, DarkLink? Of course it was all QTE, but I think it's the first game to do interactive cinematicism correctly.ActionRemix

I would argue it was one of the worst offenders. It's the exact opposite of what a good game should be.

[QUOTE="ActionRemix"]Did you hate Heavy Rain, DarkLink? Of course it was all QTE, but I think it's the first game to do interactive cinematicism correctly.goblaa

I would argue it was one of the worst offenders. It's the exact opposite of what a good game should be.

[QUOTE="ActionRemix"]Did you hate Heavy Rain, DarkLink? Of course it was all QTE, but I think it's the first game to do interactive cinematicism correctly.goblaa

I would argue it was one of the worst offenders. It's the exact opposite of what a good game should be.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

:lol: yo funny.

you are just covering up with these supposed smartass looking posts because you can't handle my excellence in debate lol.

ChubbyGuy40

You mean that poorly structured wall of text that suggested Uncharted had good shooting mechanics and Chateau was a good level?

Also just because I can, it seemed your period button is missing from your keyboard and you used a comma as a substitute. I provided a period for you to copy/paste in the future.

.

No its about this post where I wont use any kind of punctuation where I say the only period I know of is what my girlsfriends having and I dont know what youre talking about

You might just have to play Uncharted 3 again. There's really plenty of situations where you can choose to do silent takedowns without the game telling you to. I don't know about simple manuvers you are referring to but everything outside of aiming felt fine to me.TheRealistyk

I'm not done with it yet! I need to run speaker wires through the wall for this new 5.1 set I got and I'm waiting to complete that before playing more :P But I remember after escaping the chateau [spoiler] and the people come after you (can't remember the names atm,) any time I took out a certain enemy it'd alert everyone despite no one even noticing what I did. This also happened while searching for Chloe and that other guy at the other location. [/spoiler]

I dunno it just feels kinda...off. That just might be with actions not always syncing with the animations. Even in UC2, you would have jumps that Drake should not have made but somehow teleported to the ledge. Climbing feels a hell of a lot more fluid though.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="ActionRemix"]Did you hate Heavy Rain, DarkLink? Of course it was all QTE, but I think it's the first game to do interactive cinematicism correctly.TheRealistyk

I would argue it was one of the worst offenders. It's the exact opposite of what a good game should be.

I never played it, but I think it's because of how it seemed to play like an interactive YouTube movie.

I never played it, but I think it's because of how it seemed to play like an interactive YouTube movie.

ChubbyGuy40

What I don't understand is that why can't we have both type of games? I believe that there is a place for both linear cinematic experiences like Uncharted and Call of Duty and also a place for games with more focus on the world and letting the player do as they wish (Skyrim and many other sandbox games come to mind).

I don't think Dark Link particularly understands the trouble of making an experience which can both be very cinematic and also be very openly-ended and additionally have the polish of a game with a focused plot.

An easy example of this would be the Uncharted series and Skyrim. I love both games and both are fun in their own right. However, one game's narrative is completely focused and narrow while the other one let's the player choose how the game's story should be like, and the narrative is flexes in response to that interaction. It's easy to see however, the characters in a game like Uncharted are far more fleshed out in comparison to Skyrim. [This may just be me] Additionally you can also compare Portal 2 to Uncharted 3 as well. Both games will end up being in all the GOTY ballots while both are incredibly linear. However, both provide distinctive narratives and different ways to interpret them. One is more cinematic while the other is not. In the end it's not about developing a single game, but developing a business/development strategy. The one employed by Naughty Dog in this example is to make the best and focused (or linear if you prefer) game they can and to tell a narrative in a very-specific manner. The one employed by Bethesda in their games are completely different and more player-oriented.

That's what I love about games. There can be a mix both types of games. Games in which I can do whatever I want with my character, games where I can do life-like things with some real-life characters, or even have adventures from one part of the globe to another, in a world, with characters I am unfamiliar with and everything in between. That's what games are about; being able to provide as many different types of experiences as possible for us gamers.

That's just my two cents.:)

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

At least strategy games aren't highly afflicted by cinematic design concerns. TC, I think that if you look at the replies in the thread, you will understand why the industry is facing this problem.

GD1551

What problem? There are hardly any cinematic games on the market, please enlighten us all. Most devs cannot afford to make cinematic games or don't make them at all buddy, and this isn't going to change anytime soon.

Yeah okay, looks like you didn't understand the OP either.