Games With Deep Complex Stories?

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VanHelsingBoA64

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#101 VanHelsingBoA64
Member since 2007 • 5455 Posts

[QUOTE="VanHelsingBoA64"]Blazblue.Ace6301
For a fighting game I would agree. For a regular game it's got a decent enough plot with great characters but it's still very "Crazy guy wants to plunge the world into despair". I would say Terumi is up there with Kefka in pure evil awesomeness though.

Yeah. I can't speak on other fighting games (since BB is the first one I've actually gotten into), but the plot is pretty engaging.

On the matter of Blazblue's complexity, it wasn't till I read up on the full list of fictional terms and time loops in a plot analysis on GameFAQS that I realized how deep the world is. And I really hope Terumi has a more direct role in the storyline in Continuum Shift.

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#102 Megaman5364
Member since 2009 • 2912 Posts

Awsome game, it's story isn't nessesarily told through dialouge, yet moreso, the massive adventure that you set upon, as Link the young Kokiri without a Na'Vi ( not a blue monkey :P ), until one day....

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TheGrayEye

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#103 TheGrayEye
Member since 2006 • 2579 Posts

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Then it's probably not a narrative. I've never played Half Life 2, but I've once been told that Metroid Prime had a good story because of all the background information you discover. And while it may be interesting, it's still not a narrative.

Games like Siren have a lot of story that is not told through cutscenes, but through archive files that the player stumbles across. But it also has cutscenes, which both come together to become a narrative. If it did not have cutscenes, it wouldn't have a narrative and I wouldn't consider it to have a "good" story.

hakanakumono

That is complete bull ****. Games like Half-life 2 and System Shock 2 not only have a better narrative than 90% of the video games out there, they are actually some of the most innovative as well. Cutscenes (aka movies) are NOT video game medium, when a developer uses cutscenes, they are using movies/cinematics to tell their story, NOT video games as a medium itself.

Games like Half-life 2, or even Bioshock are some of the few games that are ACTUALLY pushing this industry forward in story-telling, using cutscenes is pushing it backwards in many cases. Telling the story within the gameplay, and by using the strengths this medium can provide (as said games do), are the only way video games can evolve.

Bull. Videogames can employ a multitude of ways in which to tell a story, which may involve reading, watching, and actually playing. It's silly to make arbitrary lines on what constitutes "real videogame storytelling" and "fake videogame storytelling" when all of these things can be done within the game.

Videogames are visual media. That is why cutscenes are used. It's not because of some sort of identity crisis; it's in the nature of the medium.

No, switching to a movie half-way through a level is not innovative story-telling, especially games are meant to be PLAYED. In video games, Metal gear's narrative, is no more a narrative than either Half-life's, or Bioshock's- the difference is that two of those games are much more innovative in taking advatange of the "playing" part of video games, than the other. Half-life 2's story is told through dialog and characters, as well as heavy use of environmental story-telling and what you see as you play, how is it NOT a proper narrative? Lack of overly dramatic cutscenes and convoluted story-line?

I'm not saying that cutscenes aren't a way to tell a story in a game, but apparently, people here think that when they are not used in a game, the game ceases to have a narrative, which is a bunch of ****.

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JangoWuzHere

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#104 JangoWuzHere
Member since 2007 • 19032 Posts

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I think this falls along with "I don't want to take the time to pay attention to the story." If story isn't important to you, then skip it.

hakanakumono

no its not "I don't to take the tiem to pay attention to the story" story's important, It's how they deliver the story thats more important and making the player just watch it takes away from what makes a game a game. and it doesn't all have to be shoved in cutscenes, and in mgs's case, every new event has an over the top cutscene for it. Its a game and they are interactive by design, why take out all playing to make it more of a movie and how it delivers its story. LIke the cutscene with the small two legged robots at the beginning, stomping all over people, could be done away with, and turned into while your running forward one of them jumps on a gorup of people in front of you, and more in the background. Its more exciting since now your apart of it, panicng and running...

Of course MGS could edit a lot of the fat. You're right. But there's a huge difference between applying gameplay as storytelling when applicable and removing cutscenes from the formula entirely.

...and Final Fantasy 8 has gameplay? It might not have as many cutscenes as MGS, but it takes even longer considering all the text boxes you have to read through. You have no gameplay interaction during the story besides pressing a button.
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#105 JangoWuzHere
Member since 2007 • 19032 Posts

Awsome game, it's story isn't nessesarily told through dialouge, yet moreso, the massive adventure that you set upon, as Link the young Kokiri without a Na'Vi ( not a blue monkey :P ), until one day....

Megaman5364

actually it is.

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TheGrayEye

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#106 TheGrayEye
Member since 2006 • 2579 Posts

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I think this falls along with "I don't want to take the time to pay attention to the story." If story isn't important to you, then skip it.

hakanakumono

no its not "I don't to take the tiem to pay attention to the story" story's important, It's how they deliver the story thats more important and making the player just watch it takes away from what makes a game a game. and it doesn't all have to be shoved in cutscenes, and in mgs's case, every new event has an over the top cutscene for it. Its a game and they are interactive by design, why take out all playing to make it more of a movie and how it delivers its story. LIke the cutscene with the small two legged robots at the beginning, stomping all over people, could be done away with, and turned into while your running forward one of them jumps on a gorup of people in front of you, and more in the background. Its more exciting since now your apart of it, panicng and running...

Of course MGS could edit a lot of the fat. You're right. But there's a huge difference between applying gameplay as storytelling when applicable and removing cutscenes from the formula entirely.

Who says cutscenes are a part of the formula in the first place? It's a game, you play it, sitting back and watching movies while "playing" it is not innovative at all. In Half-life you're in the scene, you are Gordon Freeman, you aren't watching Gordon, like you would in a movie.

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Megaman5364

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#107 Megaman5364
Member since 2009 • 2912 Posts

[QUOTE="Megaman5364"]

Awsome game, it's story isn't nessesarily told through dialouge, yet moreso, the massive adventure that you set upon, as Link the young Kokiri without a Na'Vi ( not a blue monkey :P ), until one day....

JangoWuzHere

actually it is.

Yeah, yeah, ok, I still enjoyed the story in that game Is all I'm saying.

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#108 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

That is complete bull ****. Games like Half-life 2 and System Shock 2 not only have a better narrative than 90% of the video games out there, they are actually some of the most innovative as well. Cutscenes (aka movies) are NOT video game medium, when a developer uses cutscenes, they are using movies/cinematics to tell their story, NOT video games as a medium itself.

Games like Half-life 2, or even Bioshock are some of the few games that are ACTUALLY pushing this industry forward in story-telling, using cutscenes is pushing it backwards in many cases. Telling the story within the gameplay, and by using the strengths this medium can provide (as said games do), are the only way video games can evolve.

TheGrayEye

Bull. Videogames can employ a multitude of ways in which to tell a story, which may involve reading, watching, and actually playing. It's silly to make arbitrary lines on what constitutes "real videogame storytelling" and "fake videogame storytelling" when all of these things can be done within the game.

Videogames are visual media. That is why cutscenes are used. It's not because of some sort of identity crisis; it's in the nature of the medium.

No, switching to a movie half-way through a level is not innovative story-telling, especially games are meant to be PLAYED. In video games, Metal gear's narrative, is no more a narrative than either Half-life's, or Bioshock's- the difference is that two of those games are much more innovative in taking advatange of the "playing" part of video games, than the other. Half-life 2's story is told through dialog and characters, as well as heavy use of environmental story-telling and what you see as you play, how is it NOT a proper narrative? Lack of overly dramatic cutscenes and convoluted story-line?

I'm not saying that cutscenes aren't a way to tell a story in a game, but apparently, people here think that when they are not used in a game, the game ceases to have a narrative, which is a bunch of ****.

You're talking about delivery, not story itself. Stories can be delivered in any number of ways. Just because a game includes cutscenes doesn't mean it isn't innovative in it's delivery.

I'm finding it difficult to discuss with you because you're talking about games I haven't played. If there is dialogue, then when does it occur? Outside of cutscenes? During fighting?

Going by games I have played, I can destructure them. For example, if we take out all of the cutscenes/dialogue in RE2 and reduce it to the the gameplay and archive files alone, it's no longer a narrative. It's just a game with a fair amount of backstory.

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#109 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts
[QUOTE="VanHelsingBoA64"]Blazblue.Ace6301
For a fighting game I would agree. For a regular game it's got a decent enough plot with great characters but it's still very "Crazy guy wants to plunge the world into despair". I would say Terumi is up there with Kefka in pure evil awesomeness though.

The Guilty Gear series as well, but it is EXTREMELY complicated.
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hakanakumono

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#110 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] no its not "I don't to take the tiem to pay attention to the story" story's important, It's how they deliver the story thats more important and making the player just watch it takes away from what makes a game a game. and it doesn't all have to be shoved in cutscenes, and in mgs's case, every new event has an over the top cutscene for it. Its a game and they are interactive by design, why take out all playing to make it more of a movie and how it delivers its story. LIke the cutscene with the small two legged robots at the beginning, stomping all over people, could be done away with, and turned into while your running forward one of them jumps on a gorup of people in front of you, and more in the background. Its more exciting since now your apart of it, panicng and running...JangoWuzHere

Of course MGS could edit a lot of the fat. You're right. But there's a huge difference between applying gameplay as storytelling when applicable and removing cutscenes from the formula entirely.

...and Final Fantasy 8 has gameplay? It might not have as many cutscenes as MGS, but it takes even longer considering all the text boxes you have to read through. You have no gameplay interaction during the story besides pressing a button.

So what? There's no reason for every single moment of the game to be spent battling. FFVIII wouldn't be able to tell the story that it did without cutscenes.

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Megaman5364

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#111 Megaman5364
Member since 2009 • 2912 Posts

[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Of course MGS could edit a lot of the fat. You're right. But there's a huge difference between applying gameplay as storytelling when applicable and removing cutscenes from the formula entirely.

hakanakumono

...and Final Fantasy 8 has gameplay? It might not have as many cutscenes as MGS, but it takes even longer considering all the text boxes you have to read through. You have no gameplay interaction during the story besides pressing a button.

So what? There's no reason for every single moment of the game to be spent battling. FFVIII wouldn't be able to tell the story that it did without cutscenes.

Final Fantasy 8 is the only good Final Fantasy so don't hate on it haters :( !!!
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TheGrayEye

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#112 TheGrayEye
Member since 2006 • 2579 Posts

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Bull. Videogames can employ a multitude of ways in which to tell a story, which may involve reading, watching, and actually playing. It's silly to make arbitrary lines on what constitutes "real videogame storytelling" and "fake videogame storytelling" when all of these things can be done within the game.

Videogames are visual media. That is why cutscenes are used. It's not because of some sort of identity crisis; it's in the nature of the medium.

hakanakumono

No, switching to a movie half-way through a level is not innovative story-telling, especially games are meant to be PLAYED. In video games, Metal gear's narrative, is no more a narrative than either Half-life's, or Bioshock's- the difference is that two of those games are much more innovative in taking advatange of the "playing" part of video games, than the other. Half-life 2's story is told through dialog and characters, as well as heavy use of environmental story-telling and what you see as you play, how is it NOT a proper narrative? Lack of overly dramatic cutscenes and convoluted story-line?

I'm not saying that cutscenes aren't a way to tell a story in a game, but apparently, people here think that when they are not used in a game, the game ceases to have a narrative, which is a bunch of ****.

You're talking about delivery, not story itself. Stories can be delivered in any number of ways. Just because a game includes cutscenes doesn't mean it isn't innovative in it's delivery.

I'm finding it difficult to discuss with you because you're talking about games I haven't played. If there is dialogue, then when does it occur? Outside of cutscenes? During fighting?

Going by games I have played, I can destructure them. For example, if we take out all of the cutscenes/dialogue in RE2 and reduce it to the the gameplay and archive files alone, it's no longer a narrative. It's just a game with a fair amount of backstory.

A game can be innovative in use of cutscenes, but if the cutscenes themselves are what's innovative, that all it means is that the developers have made an innovative animated movie, one that takes place between the actual gameplay. The reason RE2 would only contain backstory if you removed the cutscenes, is because the game never used actual gameplay, to tell it's main story through in the first place.

This is not the case at all with Half-life 2, in HL2, everything is blended/takes place in the gameplay experience- character conversations (the ones you'd probably find in cutscenes in other games), huge plot events (like an important character be captured or fighting), as well vast amounts of setting detail, intigrated intricately throughout the world. The game is one huge seamless experience, no cutscenes appear out of nowhere to interupt the flow, moments of action and character conversation exist through the same (very immersive) pair of eyes, that is why it is one the best video game experiences in existance (imo).

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#113 NAPK1NS
Member since 2004 • 14870 Posts
BioShock, absolutely. TC, you must be nuts to exclude it from this kind of list. There's all kinds of layers concerning power, human nature and government. Beyond that, FFX has an incredible story with one of the most realized and imaginative worlds without pages and pages of text. The story, although lasting 60+ hours constantly thickens and becomes more complex.
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#114 JangoWuzHere
Member since 2007 • 19032 Posts
[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"] ...and Final Fantasy 8 has gameplay? It might not have as many cutscenes as MGS, but it takes even longer considering all the text boxes you have to read through. You have no gameplay interaction during the story besides pressing a button. Megaman5364

So what? There's no reason for every single moment of the game to be spent battling. FFVIII wouldn't be able to tell the story that it did without cutscenes.

Final Fantasy 8 is the only good Final Fantasy so don't hate on it haters :( !!!

Oh geez...that is just....untrue to the max.
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#115 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

No, switching to a movie half-way through a level is not innovative story-telling, especially games are meant to be PLAYED. In video games, Metal gear's narrative, is no more a narrative than either Half-life's, or Bioshock's- the difference is that two of those games are much more innovative in taking advatange of the "playing" part of video games, than the other. Half-life 2's story is told through dialog and characters, as well as heavy use of environmental story-telling and what you see as you play, how is it NOT a proper narrative? Lack of overly dramatic cutscenes and convoluted story-line?

I'm not saying that cutscenes aren't a way to tell a story in a game, but apparently, people here think that when they are not used in a game, the game ceases to have a narrative, which is a bunch of ****.

TheGrayEye

You're talking about delivery, not story itself. Stories can be delivered in any number of ways. Just because a game includes cutscenes doesn't mean it isn't innovative in it's delivery.

I'm finding it difficult to discuss with you because you're talking about games I haven't played. If there is dialogue, then when does it occur? Outside of cutscenes? During fighting?

Going by games I have played, I can destructure them. For example, if we take out all of the cutscenes/dialogue in RE2 and reduce it to the the gameplay and archive files alone, it's no longer a narrative. It's just a game with a fair amount of backstory.

A game can be innovative in use of cutscenes, but if the cutscenes themselves are what's innovative, that all it means is that the developers have made an innovative animated movie, one that takes place between the actual gameplay. The reason RE2 would only contain backstory if you removed the cutscenes, is because the game never used actual gameplay, to tell it's main story through in the first place.

This is not the case at all with Half-life 2, in HL2, everything is blended/takes place in the gameplay experience- character conversations (the ones you'd probably find in cutscenes in other games), huge plot events (like an important character be captured or fighting), as well vast amounts of setting detail, intigrated intricately throughout the world. The game is one huge seamless experience, no cutscenes appear out of nowhere to interupt the flow, moments of action and character conversation exist through the same (very immersive) pair of eyes, that is why it is one the best video game experiences in existance (imo).

Here's where the "you might as well have made a movie" argument falls apart: Film is time constrained. No one is going to deliver a 60 hour movie. Games, like books, can tell stories as long as they want because they don't have to be consumed in one sitting and a lot of the story takes place through the gameplay.

And that's not true. A lot of the story is told through the gameplay in RE2. But it's also told through the cutscenes when it makes sense to have a cutscene. It wouldn't make sense to take these things out of cutscenes and put them into gameplay. Some things simply can't be turned into gameplay. What happens when characters top and talk? At what point does it stop being gameplay and transcend to cutscene? It doesn't make sense to limit stories only to action sequences.

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#116 Raiden004
Member since 2009 • 1605 Posts

Pretty much anything with Metal Gear on it.

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#117 TheGrayEye
Member since 2006 • 2579 Posts

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

You're talking about delivery, not story itself. Stories can be delivered in any number of ways. Just because a game includes cutscenes doesn't mean it isn't innovative in it's delivery.

I'm finding it difficult to discuss with you because you're talking about games I haven't played. If there is dialogue, then when does it occur? Outside of cutscenes? During fighting?

Going by games I have played, I can destructure them. For example, if we take out all of the cutscenes/dialogue in RE2 and reduce it to the the gameplay and archive files alone, it's no longer a narrative. It's just a game with a fair amount of backstory.

hakanakumono

A game can be innovative in use of cutscenes, but if the cutscenes themselves are what's innovative, that all it means is that the developers have made an innovative animated movie, one that takes place between the actual gameplay. The reason RE2 would only contain backstory if you removed the cutscenes, is because the game never used actual gameplay, to tell it's main story through in the first place.

This is not the case at all with Half-life 2, in HL2, everything is blended/takes place in the gameplay experience- character conversations (the ones you'd probably find in cutscenes in other games), huge plot events (like an important character be captured or fighting), as well vast amounts of setting detail, intigrated intricately throughout the world. The game is one huge seamless experience, no cutscenes appear out of nowhere to interupt the flow, moments of action and character conversation exist through the same (very immersive) pair of eyes, that is why it is one the best video game experiences in existance (imo).

Here's where the "you might as well have made a movie" argument falls apart: Film is time constrained. No one is going to deliver a 60 hour movie. Games, like books, can tell stories as long as they want because they don't have to be consumed in one sitting and a lot of the story takes place through the gameplay.

And that's not true. A lot of the story is told through the gameplay in RE2. But it's also told through the cutscenes when it makes sense to have a cutscene. It wouldn't make sense to take these things out of cutscenes and put them into gameplay. Some things simply can't be turned into gameplay. What happens when characters top and talk? At what point does it stop being gameplay and transcend to cutscene? It doesn't make sense to limit stories only to action sequences.

Keep in mind that like I said earlier, I think cutscenes can be used to tell a story in a game, but using movies to tell a story in a video game isn't pushing the video-game medium forward in any real storytelling sense. Also, in games like Metal gear, the only time you're usually playing, is when there is action or sneaking around, most of which isn't really critical to the actual story, and thus not much story is really being told at all through the gameplay, especially when compared to the incredibly long cutscenes.

Also, having charcters stop to talk worked just fine in HL2, at no point in the game (except perhaps the very beginning) was a cutscene really used in the game, much less needed. It starts transcending into a cutscene, when I have no control over the gameplay, and I can set the controller down to watch (like the clicker for a movie).

System Shock 2 is just as innovative as Half-life 2, because the story is told through both the environment, radio/audio diaries, and self-discovery. You walk around the spooky space ship, finding bloody writting on the wall, and audio diaries lying around from dead crew members, giving insight into the story and what happened. Also, the only real conversations that occur through the game, are characters talking to you over radio, while you are playing, this makes it so gameplay is never interupted with a movie, and instead, we can actually take advantage of the mediums ability to create a interactible world that the player is free to explore and learn about, rather then limit our discovery to specifc cutscenes and camera angles.

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#118 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

A game can be innovative in use of cutscenes, but if the cutscenes themselves are what's innovative, that all it means is that the developers have made an innovative animated movie, one that takes place between the actual gameplay. The reason RE2 would only contain backstory if you removed the cutscenes, is because the game never used actual gameplay, to tell it's main story through in the first place.

This is not the case at all with Half-life 2, in HL2, everything is blended/takes place in the gameplay experience- character conversations (the ones you'd probably find in cutscenes in other games), huge plot events (like an important character be captured or fighting), as well vast amounts of setting detail, intigrated intricately throughout the world. The game is one huge seamless experience, no cutscenes appear out of nowhere to interupt the flow, moments of action and character conversation exist through the same (very immersive) pair of eyes, that is why it is one the best video game experiences in existance (imo).

TheGrayEye

Here's where the "you might as well have made a movie" argument falls apart: Film is time constrained. No one is going to deliver a 60 hour movie. Games, like books, can tell stories as long as they want because they don't have to be consumed in one sitting and a lot of the story takes place through the gameplay.

And that's not true. A lot of the story is told through the gameplay in RE2. But it's also told through the cutscenes when it makes sense to have a cutscene. It wouldn't make sense to take these things out of cutscenes and put them into gameplay. Some things simply can't be turned into gameplay. What happens when characters top and talk? At what point does it stop being gameplay and transcend to cutscene? It doesn't make sense to limit stories only to action sequences.

Keep in mind that like I said earlier, I think cutscenes can be used to tell a story in a game, but using movies to tell a story in a video game isn't pushing the video-game medium forward in any real storytelling sense. Also, in games like Metal gear, the only time you're usually playing, is when there is action or sneaking around, most of which isn't really critical to the actual story, and thus not much story is really being told at all through the gameplay, especially when compared to the incredibly long cutscenes.

Also, having charcters stop to talk worked just fine in HL2, at no point in the game (except perhaps the very beginning) was a cutscene really used in the game, much less needed. It starts transcending into a cutscene, when I have no control over the gameplay, and I can set the controller down to watch (like the clicker for a movie).

System Shock 2 is just as innovative as Half-life 2, because the story is told through both the environment, radio/audio diaries, and self-discovery. You walk around the spooky space ship, finding bloody writting on the wall, and audio diaries lying around from dead crew members, giving insight into the story and what happened. Also, the only real conversations that occur through the game, are characters talking to you over radio, while you are playing, this makes it so gameplay is never interupted with a movie, and instead, we can actually take advantage of the mediums ability to create a interactible world that the player is free to explore and learn about, rather then limit our discovery to specifc cutscenes and camera angles.

There is no real difference between movies and cutscenes besides the graphical fidelity and the way in which the game handles them. The sneaking around is part of the story int he same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking. Without it, the game lacks framework.

It may have worked just fine in HL2, but there are a lot of stories where it would not work. A lot is dependent ont he story content. Abstinence from cutscenes is an unhealthy restriction to place upon oneself, imo, because it limits what you can do.

That sounds like backstory, but it's not a narrative. Those kind of things are great complements for a narrative, but they cannot substitute for a narrative itself. It should be noted that this is typically done in Japanese Survival Horror games.

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#119 deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510
Member since 2007 • 17401 Posts

Planescape Torment and Half Life.

persona 4Androvinus
And Persona 3.

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#120 deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab
Member since 2008 • 17476 Posts

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Here's where the "you might as well have made a movie" argument falls apart: Film is time constrained. No one is going to deliver a 60 hour movie. Games, like books, can tell stories as long as they want because they don't have to be consumed in one sitting and a lot of the story takes place through the gameplay.

And that's not true. A lot of the story is told through the gameplay in RE2. But it's also told through the cutscenes when it makes sense to have a cutscene. It wouldn't make sense to take these things out of cutscenes and put them into gameplay. Some things simply can't be turned into gameplay. What happens when characters top and talk? At what point does it stop being gameplay and transcend to cutscene? It doesn't make sense to limit stories only to action sequences.

hakanakumono

Keep in mind that like I said earlier, I think cutscenes can be used to tell a story in a game, but using movies to tell a story in a video game isn't pushing the video-game medium forward in any real storytelling sense. Also, in games like Metal gear, the only time you're usually playing, is when there is action or sneaking around, most of which isn't really critical to the actual story, and thus not much story is really being told at all through the gameplay, especially when compared to the incredibly long cutscenes.

Also, having charcters stop to talk worked just fine in HL2, at no point in the game (except perhaps the very beginning) was a cutscene really used in the game, much less needed. It starts transcending into a cutscene, when I have no control over the gameplay, and I can set the controller down to watch (like the clicker for a movie).

System Shock 2 is just as innovative as Half-life 2, because the story is told through both the environment, radio/audio diaries, and self-discovery. You walk around the spooky space ship, finding bloody writting on the wall, and audio diaries lying around from dead crew members, giving insight into the story and what happened. Also, the only real conversations that occur through the game, are characters talking to you over radio, while you are playing, this makes it so gameplay is never interupted with a movie, and instead, we can actually take advantage of the mediums ability to create a interactible world that the player is free to explore and learn about, rather then limit our discovery to specifc cutscenes and camera angles.

There is no real difference between movies and cutscenes besides the graphical fidelity and the way in which the game handles them. The sneaking around is part of the story int he same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking. Without it, the game lacks framework.

It may have worked just fine in HL2, but there are a lot of stories where it would not work. A lot is dependent ont he story content. Abstinence from cutscenes is an unhealthy restriction to place upon oneself, imo, because it limits what you can do.

That sounds like backstory, but it's not a narrative. Those kind of things are great complements for a narrative, but they cannot substitute for a narrative itself. It should be noted that this is typically done in Japanese Survival Horror games.

story being told ingame like hl2 does should only really be used in: fps games where the character does not talk. The whole point of that type of storytelling is to make you feel like you are part of the story not just some passive observer like cutscenes do, that immersion is ruined in things like third person games or if your "avatar" starts yapping on his own. That being said when the ingame story telling like what hl2 uses is done well and correctly it is much better than cutscences, half life 2 storry telling isnt just a backstory is pushes the story forward and does it better than if valve had made it using cutscenes.
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#121 Eggimannd
Member since 2009 • 1734 Posts

Deus Ex. While the story in itself isn't really complex, all the conversations/books/logs make for an incredible story.

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#122 SparkyProtocol
Member since 2009 • 7680 Posts
Alan Wake is a recent example. I still don't fully understand it. :(
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#123 TheGrayEye
Member since 2006 • 2579 Posts

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Here's where the "you might as well have made a movie" argument falls apart: Film is time constrained. No one is going to deliver a 60 hour movie. Games, like books, can tell stories as long as they want because they don't have to be consumed in one sitting and a lot of the story takes place through the gameplay.

And that's not true. A lot of the story is told through the gameplay in RE2. But it's also told through the cutscenes when it makes sense to have a cutscene. It wouldn't make sense to take these things out of cutscenes and put them into gameplay. Some things simply can't be turned into gameplay. What happens when characters top and talk? At what point does it stop being gameplay and transcend to cutscene? It doesn't make sense to limit stories only to action sequences.

hakanakumono

Keep in mind that like I said earlier, I think cutscenes can be used to tell a story in a game, but using movies to tell a story in a video game isn't pushing the video-game medium forward in any real storytelling sense. Also, in games like Metal gear, the only time you're usually playing, is when there is action or sneaking around, most of which isn't really critical to the actual story, and thus not much story is really being told at all through the gameplay, especially when compared to the incredibly long cutscenes.

Also, having charcters stop to talk worked just fine in HL2, at no point in the game (except perhaps the very beginning) was a cutscene really used in the game, much less needed. It starts transcending into a cutscene, when I have no control over the gameplay, and I can set the controller down to watch (like the clicker for a movie).

System Shock 2 is just as innovative as Half-life 2, because the story is told through both the environment, radio/audio diaries, and self-discovery. You walk around the spooky space ship, finding bloody writting on the wall, and audio diaries lying around from dead crew members, giving insight into the story and what happened. Also, the only real conversations that occur through the game, are characters talking to you over radio, while you are playing, this makes it so gameplay is never interupted with a movie, and instead, we can actually take advantage of the mediums ability to create a interactible world that the player is free to explore and learn about, rather then limit our discovery to specifc cutscenes and camera angles.

There is no real difference between movies and cutscenes besides the graphical fidelity and the way in which the game handles them. The sneaking around is part of the story int he same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking. Without it, the game lacks framework.

It may have worked just fine in HL2, but there are a lot of stories where it would not work. A lot is dependent ont he story content. Abstinence from cutscenes is an unhealthy restriction to place upon oneself, imo, because it limits what you can do.

That sounds like backstory, but it's not a narrative. Those kind of things are great complements for a narrative, but they cannot substitute for a narrative itself. It should be noted that this is typically done in Japanese Survival Horror games.

"same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking"- Ah, but when a novel is both describing scenes of dialog between characters, and someone sneaking around a base, it is seamless, there is no medium-level distinction in between it. Reading can only be based around our ability of sight, there is no sound or real level of interaction. There is in a game though, and when you take that interaction away, it ceases to become a game, even if it is just for a minute or two.

I think it's the opposite, cutscenes (for video games) limit what you can do. If I want to sit down on that chair while talking to a character, I can't because the cutscene is fully scripted, and out of my hands. Cutscenes take away the player's ability to make choices, and most of all, to interact- which is a staple of video games. Imagine if you were watching an actual movie at the theaters, and then all of a sudden one of the characters in the film pulled out a book, and then the only thing that was on screen were pages and silence for ten minutes, as the shot consisted soley of pages from the book (ones that the audience were expected to read)...

Also with System Shock 2 (and Bioshock), it actually managed to take audio diaries, which are often used soley for collectible bits of simple backstory nowadays, into a front that can actually be used to discover the reality and secrets of the actual story. You could play through Bioshock without really listening to the diaries, and understand the story at a basic level, but the audio diaries were the actual star of the narrative, they allowed you to discover entierly new levels that the plot had existed on, critical storylines that were central to the main plot, making it more than just backstory material. It's the type of story that works in a video game, the way 2001:a space odyssey works the way it does as a movie.

It also allows for a great level of subtly, because with Bioshock, so much of the environment and art deco (statues, etc) speak volumes about the mindset of Andrew Ryan and the characters in Rapture, without needing to have a huge cutscene explain all that in flashbacks (like Metal Gear would do).

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hakanakumono

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#124 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

Keep in mind that like I said earlier, I think cutscenes can be used to tell a story in a game, but using movies to tell a story in a video game isn't pushing the video-game medium forward in any real storytelling sense. Also, in games like Metal gear, the only time you're usually playing, is when there is action or sneaking around, most of which isn't really critical to the actual story, and thus not much story is really being told at all through the gameplay, especially when compared to the incredibly long cutscenes.

Also, having charcters stop to talk worked just fine in HL2, at no point in the game (except perhaps the very beginning) was a cutscene really used in the game, much less needed. It starts transcending into a cutscene, when I have no control over the gameplay, and I can set the controller down to watch (like the clicker for a movie).

System Shock 2 is just as innovative as Half-life 2, because the story is told through both the environment, radio/audio diaries, and self-discovery. You walk around the spooky space ship, finding bloody writting on the wall, and audio diaries lying around from dead crew members, giving insight into the story and what happened. Also, the only real conversations that occur through the game, are characters talking to you over radio, while you are playing, this makes it so gameplay is never interupted with a movie, and instead, we can actually take advantage of the mediums ability to create a interactible world that the player is free to explore and learn about, rather then limit our discovery to specifc cutscenes and camera angles.

TheGrayEye

There is no real difference between movies and cutscenes besides the graphical fidelity and the way in which the game handles them. The sneaking around is part of the story int he same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking. Without it, the game lacks framework.

It may have worked just fine in HL2, but there are a lot of stories where it would not work. A lot is dependent ont he story content. Abstinence from cutscenes is an unhealthy restriction to place upon oneself, imo, because it limits what you can do.

That sounds like backstory, but it's not a narrative. Those kind of things are great complements for a narrative, but they cannot substitute for a narrative itself. It should be noted that this is typically done in Japanese Survival Horror games.

"same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking"- Ah, but when a novel is both describing scenes of dialog between characters, and someone sneaking around a base, it is seamless, there is no medium-level distinction in between it. Reading can only be based around our ability of sight, there is no sound or real level of interaction. There is in a game though, and when you take that interaction away, it ceases to become a game, even if it is just for a minute or two.

I think it's the opposite, cutscenes (for video games) limit what you can do. If I want to sit down on that chair while talking to a character, I can't because the cutscene is fully scripted, and out of my hands. Cutscenes take away the player's ability to make choices, and most of all, to interact- which is a staple of video games. Imagine if you were watching an actual movie at the theaters, and then all of a sudden one of the characters in the film pulled out a book, and then the only thing that was on screen were pages and silence for ten minutes, as the shot consisted soley of pages from the book (ones that the audience were expected to read)...

Also with System Shock 2 (and Bioshock), it actually managed to take audio diaries, which are often used soley for collectible bits of simple backstory nowadays, into a front that can actually be used to discover the reality and secrets of the actual story. You could play through Bioshock without really listening to the diaries, and understand the story at a basic level, but the audio diaries were the actual star of the narrative, they allowed you to discover entierly new levels that the plot had existed on, critical storylines that were central to the main plot, making it more than just backstory material. It's the type of story that works in a video game, the way 2001:a space odyssey works the way it does as a movie.

It also allows for a great level of subtly, because with Bioshock, so much of the environment and art deco (statues, etc) speak volumes about the mindset of Andrew Ryan and the characters in Rapture, without needing to have a huge cutscene explain all that in flashbacks (like Metal Gear would do).

In FFXIII, the transition between cutscenes and gameplay are pretty seamless. Just because there are cutscenes doesn't mean they can't be seamless. Furthermore, I don't think games necessarily need to be seamless.

You're talking about what the player can do; I'm talking about what the writer can do. I don't think that the player needs to interact on every level of a game, especially when this can conflict with direction. Yes, that would be silly and that's one way in which videogames have strength over the other two major mediums; Games can employ a multitude of storytelling techniques.

Right, that's backstory but that's not the narrative.

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#125 ps3_owns_360Wii
Member since 2008 • 2289 Posts

Metal Gear Solid Series:D

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#126 PabloEscobar20
Member since 2009 • 837 Posts

Tales of Vesperia.

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TheGrayEye

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#127 TheGrayEye
Member since 2006 • 2579 Posts

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

There is no real difference between movies and cutscenes besides the graphical fidelity and the way in which the game handles them. The sneaking around is part of the story int he same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking. Without it, the game lacks framework.

It may have worked just fine in HL2, but there are a lot of stories where it would not work. A lot is dependent ont he story content. Abstinence from cutscenes is an unhealthy restriction to place upon oneself, imo, because it limits what you can do.

That sounds like backstory, but it's not a narrative. Those kind of things are great complements for a narrative, but they cannot substitute for a narrative itself. It should be noted that this is typically done in Japanese Survival Horror games.

hakanakumono

"same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking"- Ah, but when a novel is both describing scenes of dialog between characters, and someone sneaking around a base, it is seamless, there is no medium-level distinction in between it. Reading can only be based around our ability of sight, there is no sound or real level of interaction. There is in a game though, and when you take that interaction away, it ceases to become a game, even if it is just for a minute or two.

I think it's the opposite, cutscenes (for video games) limit what you can do. If I want to sit down on that chair while talking to a character, I can't because the cutscene is fully scripted, and out of my hands. Cutscenes take away the player's ability to make choices, and most of all, to interact- which is a staple of video games. Imagine if you were watching an actual movie at the theaters, and then all of a sudden one of the characters in the film pulled out a book, and then the only thing that was on screen were pages and silence for ten minutes, as the shot consisted soley of pages from the book (ones that the audience were expected to read)...

Also with System Shock 2 (and Bioshock), it actually managed to take audio diaries, which are often used soley for collectible bits of simple backstory nowadays, into a front that can actually be used to discover the reality and secrets of the actual story. You could play through Bioshock without really listening to the diaries, and understand the story at a basic level, but the audio diaries were the actual star of the narrative, they allowed you to discover entierly new levels that the plot had existed on, critical storylines that were central to the main plot, making it more than just backstory material. It's the type of story that works in a video game, the way 2001:a space odyssey works the way it does as a movie.

It also allows for a great level of subtly, because with Bioshock, so much of the environment and art deco (statues, etc) speak volumes about the mindset of Andrew Ryan and the characters in Rapture, without needing to have a huge cutscene explain all that in flashbacks (like Metal Gear would do).

In FFXIII, the transition between cutscenes and gameplay are pretty seamless. Just because there are cutscenes doesn't mean they can't be seamless. Furthermore, I don't think games necessarily need to be seamless.

You're talking about what the player can do; I'm talking about what the writer can do. I don't think that the player needs to interact on every level of a game, especially when this can conflict with direction. Yes, that would be silly and that's one way in which videogames have strength over the other two major mediums; Games can employ a multitude of storytelling techniques.

Right, that's backstory but that's not the narrative.

Never really played Final Fantasy, so I can't say. You're right that games can touch upon all types of different mediums, but the games that really push the possibilites of being able to tell a story, by almost soley using the strengths an interative medium can provide, are the ones that will be the most innovative- not the game with the longest cutscenes.

The player doesn't need to fully interact with everything, but he also doesn't need to be restrained to watching a cutscene that could have possibly been experienced through actual gameplay. Kojima is a good animated movie director, but doesn't really have any idea how to tell a story by using the largely untapped strengths this medium can offer. Why watch Snake jump out of an aircraft and parachute in a cutscene, when the player could be doing that themselves?

Bioshock hardly has any cutscenes, it tells its story primarily through what you can see in the world around you, and what you can hear (such as characters talking to you over the radio, or diaries you find) as well as the interaction and self-discovery of the world in between. That IS the narrative, if it didn't have one, why was the game univerally praised for having one of the best and most unique narratives in gaming history? Just because it's unconventional, doesn't mean it can't qualify as a storytelling narrative. What is also remarkable, is how the game has practically no face-to-face character dialogs, and still manages to create an emotional and profound level of story. This medium is still a goldmine in terms of completely new forms of story-telling, and games like Half-life 2 and Bioshock are just the start.

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#128 Plzhelpmelearn
Member since 2010 • 1270 Posts

What are some games from any platform any generation with very deep well written stories? No generic "guy saves world from alien invasion" games. And to set the bar, lets just say Heavy Rain had a bad story. Go.

Update:No offense to the contributors but most of you guys are posting games with very shallow stories. I excluded Heavy Rain because although the story was somewhat good, it wasnt deep and complex. Games like Bioshock, Infamous, Halo shouldnt even be listed here.

Im looking for a game with a story as deep and complex as the MGS series. Or something with as much meaning as Xenogears. Thats why I said not your typical "guy saves world from aliens". Halo, Bioshock, Alan Wake, etc. These are all games with shallow stories. Its your typical guy fights monsters, guy suffering from paranormal disorder story with a cheap plot twist. Thats not what Im looking for.

erglesmergle
How can you not include Bioshock? That is one of the best story driven games this gen in my opinion. Just because its story telling medium was optional (picking up the audio tapes) does not make it any less of a compelling story....
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#129 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

The Longest Journey series.

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#130 ZippySlappy
Member since 2009 • 2664 Posts
SMG2...o wait. I'd have to say MGS4.
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#131 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="TheGrayEye"]

"same sense that a novel regarding a spy would describe the sneaking"- Ah, but when a novel is both describing scenes of dialog between characters, and someone sneaking around a base, it is seamless, there is no medium-level distinction in between it. Reading can only be based around our ability of sight, there is no sound or real level of interaction. There is in a game though, and when you take that interaction away, it ceases to become a game, even if it is just for a minute or two.

I think it's the opposite, cutscenes (for video games) limit what you can do. If I want to sit down on that chair while talking to a character, I can't because the cutscene is fully scripted, and out of my hands. Cutscenes take away the player's ability to make choices, and most of all, to interact- which is a staple of video games. Imagine if you were watching an actual movie at the theaters, and then all of a sudden one of the characters in the film pulled out a book, and then the only thing that was on screen were pages and silence for ten minutes, as the shot consisted soley of pages from the book (ones that the audience were expected to read)...

Also with System Shock 2 (and Bioshock), it actually managed to take audio diaries, which are often used soley for collectible bits of simple backstory nowadays, into a front that can actually be used to discover the reality and secrets of the actual story. You could play through Bioshock without really listening to the diaries, and understand the story at a basic level, but the audio diaries were the actual star of the narrative, they allowed you to discover entierly new levels that the plot had existed on, critical storylines that were central to the main plot, making it more than just backstory material. It's the type of story that works in a video game, the way 2001:a space odyssey works the way it does as a movie.

It also allows for a great level of subtly, because with Bioshock, so much of the environment and art deco (statues, etc) speak volumes about the mindset of Andrew Ryan and the characters in Rapture, without needing to have a huge cutscene explain all that in flashbacks (like Metal Gear would do).

TheGrayEye

In FFXIII, the transition between cutscenes and gameplay are pretty seamless. Just because there are cutscenes doesn't mean they can't be seamless. Furthermore, I don't think games necessarily need to be seamless.

You're talking about what the player can do; I'm talking about what the writer can do. I don't think that the player needs to interact on every level of a game, especially when this can conflict with direction. Yes, that would be silly and that's one way in which videogames have strength over the other two major mediums; Games can employ a multitude of storytelling techniques.

Right, that's backstory but that's not the narrative.

Never really played Final Fantasy, so I can't say. You're right that games can touch upon all types of different mediums, but the games that really push the possibilites of being able to tell a story, by almost soley using the strengths an interative medium can provide, are the ones that will be the most innovative- not the game with the longest cutscenes.

The player doesn't need to fully interact with everything, but he also doesn't need to be restrained to watching a cutscene that could have possibly been experienced through actual gameplay. Kojima is a good animated movie director, but doesn't really have any idea how to tell a story by using the largely untapped strengths this medium can offer. Why watch Snake jump out of an aircraft and parachute in a cutscene, when the player could be doing that themselves?

Bioshock hardly has any cutscenes, it tells its story primarily through what you can see in the world around you, and what you can hear (such as characters talking to you over the radio, or diaries you find) as well as the interaction and self-discovery of the world in between. That IS the narrative, if it didn't have one, why was the game univerally praised for having one of the best and most unique narratives in gaming history? Just because it's unconventional, doesn't mean it can't qualify as a storytelling narrative. What is also remarkable, is how the game has practically no face-to-face character dialogs, and still manages to create an emotional and profound level of story. This medium is still a goldmine in terms of completely new forms of story-telling, and games like Half-life 2 and Bioshock are just the start.

It doesn't have much to do with FF itself as much as it has to do with cutscenes coming directly after battles with no loading (boss fights).

Why does the player need to do everything? I understand that games should engage gameplay when possible, but I think it should also be reasonable. Is taking Snake, walking 3 steps to the edge of an aircraft and pressing "x" to jump off really adding something to the game? In Xenosaga Ep. II there is a sword fight between two characters directly followed by a boss fight. Yes, the sword fight could be handled with an in game battle, but the in game battle wouldn't offer the same type of scene and it would be redundant with another fight to follow it.

There are different directions you can take games. There is no one true way to tell a story in a game. I think the problem here is that I haven't played these games so it's difficult for me to discuss them.

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UnrealLegend

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#132 UnrealLegend
Member since 2009 • 5888 Posts

The Assassin's Creed series. It has a ridiculous amount of hidden info and backstory.

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#133 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26716 Posts
Did anyone say The Witcher? That's gotta be the best story I've seen in a video game in a very long time.
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WhenCicadasCry

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#134 WhenCicadasCry
Member since 2010 • 2727 Posts

The Witcher, Stalker, Killer7, Metal Gear Solid, Bioshock, and ofcourse. Crysis. :P

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#135 tutt3r
Member since 2005 • 2865 Posts

What are some games from any platform any generation with very deep well written stories? No generic "guy saves world from alien invasion" games. And to set the bar, lets just say Heavy Rain had a bad story. Go.

Update:No offense to the contributors but most of you guys are posting games with very shallow stories. I excluded Heavy Rain because although the story was somewhat good, it wasnt deep and complex. Games like Bioshock, Infamous, Halo shouldnt even be listed here.

Im looking for a game with a story as deep and complex as the MGS series. Or something with as much meaning as Xenogears. Thats why I said not your typical "guy saves world from aliens". Halo, Bioshock, Alan Wake, etc. These are all games with shallow stories. Its your typical guy fights monsters, guy suffering from paranormal disorder story with a cheap plot twist. Thats not what Im looking for.

erglesmergle

overcomplicated stories =/= good stories

And every games is "guy saves world from _______" and lol at MGS not having someone who suffers from paranormal disorders and cheap plot twist.

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WhenCicadasCry

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#136 WhenCicadasCry
Member since 2010 • 2727 Posts

Deus Ex too.

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#137 WhenCicadasCry
Member since 2010 • 2727 Posts

[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]

What are some games from any platform any generation with very deep well written stories? No generic "guy saves world from alien invasion" games. And to set the bar, lets just say Heavy Rain had a bad story. Go.

Update:No offense to the contributors but most of you guys are posting games with very shallow stories. I excluded Heavy Rain because although the story was somewhat good, it wasnt deep and complex. Games like Bioshock, Infamous, Halo shouldnt even be listed here.

Im looking for a game with a story as deep and complex as the MGS series. Or something with as much meaning as Xenogears. Thats why I said not your typical "guy saves world from aliens". Halo, Bioshock, Alan Wake, etc. These are all games with shallow stories. Its your typical guy fights monsters, guy suffering from paranormal disorder story with a cheap plot twist. Thats not what Im looking for.

tutt3r

overcomplicated stories =/= good stories

And every games is "guy saves world from _______" and lol at MGS not having someone who suffers from paranormal disorders and cheap plot twist.

Then you play the wrong games. Stalker wasn't anything ike that, neither was Killer7. o_O

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#138 SaltyMeatballs
Member since 2009 • 25165 Posts

What are some games from any platform any generation with very deep well written stories? No generic "guy saves world from alien invasion" games. And to set the bar, lets just say Heavy Rain had a bad story. Go.

Update:No offense to the contributors but most of you guys are posting games with very shallow stories. I excluded Heavy Rain because although the story was somewhat good, it wasnt deep and complex. Games like Bioshock, Infamous, Halo shouldnt even be listed here.

Im looking for a game with a story as deep and complex as the MGS series. Or something with as much meaning as Xenogears. Thats why I said not your typical "guy saves world from aliens". Halo, Bioshock, Alan Wake, etc. These are all games with shallow stories. Its your typical guy fights monsters, guy suffering from paranormal disorder story with a cheap plot twist. Thats not what Im looking for.

erglesmergle
What about "guy saves world from Russian nuclear attack"?
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tutt3r

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#139 tutt3r
Member since 2005 • 2865 Posts

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]

What are some games from any platform any generation with very deep well written stories? No generic "guy saves world from alien invasion" games. And to set the bar, lets just say Heavy Rain had a bad story. Go.

Update:No offense to the contributors but most of you guys are posting games with very shallow stories. I excluded Heavy Rain because although the story was somewhat good, it wasnt deep and complex. Games like Bioshock, Infamous, Halo shouldnt even be listed here.

Im looking for a game with a story as deep and complex as the MGS series. Or something with as much meaning as Xenogears. Thats why I said not your typical "guy saves world from aliens". Halo, Bioshock, Alan Wake, etc. These are all games with shallow stories. Its your typical guy fights monsters, guy suffering from paranormal disorder story with a cheap plot twist. Thats not what Im looking for.

WhenCicadasCry

overcomplicated stories =/= good stories

And every games is "guy saves world from _______" and lol at MGS not having someone who suffers from paranormal disorders and cheap plot twist.

Then you play the wrong games. Stalker wasn't anything ike that, neither was Killer7. o_O

dunno about killer 7, but guy waking up from amnesia whos only memory is to hun someone isnt exactly the most original plot either... (SOC of course) But really most games usually end up where guy saves the world from something. Im just saying its not like you can escape certain story archetypes when it comes to video games.

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hakanakumono

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#140 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

Complaining about _ saving _ is silly. Most game stories rely on some sort of grand conflict because it creates a great stage for the story. It's an incredibly broad description and doesn't necessarily indicate stagnation within storytelling.

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SaltyMeatballs

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#141 SaltyMeatballs
Member since 2009 • 25165 Posts

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

overcomplicated stories =/= good stories

And every games is "guy saves world from _______" and lol at MGS not having someone who suffers from paranormal disorders and cheap plot twist.

tutt3r

Then you play the wrong games. Stalker wasn't anything ike that, neither was Killer7. o_O

dunno about killer 7, but guy waking up from amnesia whos only memory is to hun someone isnt exactly the most original plot either... (SOC of course) But really most games usually end up where guy saves the world from something. Im just saying its not like you can escape certain story archetypes when it comes to video games.

Exactly, not without them becoming interactive movies. I'd like to see Shawshank Redemption done like Heavy Rain, when he's getting rapped, "rotate LS to struggle away" :lol:
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WhenCicadasCry

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#142 WhenCicadasCry
Member since 2010 • 2727 Posts

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

overcomplicated stories =/= good stories

And every games is "guy saves world from _______" and lol at MGS not having someone who suffers from paranormal disorders and cheap plot twist.

tutt3r

Then you play the wrong games. Stalker wasn't anything ike that, neither was Killer7. o_O

dunno about killer 7, but guy waking up from amnesia whos only memory is to hun someone isnt exactly the most original plot either... (SOC of course) But really most games usually end up where guy saves the world from something. Im just saying its not like you can escape certain story archetypes when it comes to video games.

It's abit more complex then that... :lol: Killer7 has the most messed up, wierd, complex but awesome story I've ever experienced in a game. Unforgettable imo.

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tutt3r

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#143 tutt3r
Member since 2005 • 2865 Posts

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

Then you play the wrong games. Stalker wasn't anything ike that, neither was Killer7. o_O

WhenCicadasCry

dunno about killer 7, but guy waking up from amnesia whos only memory is to hun someone isnt exactly the most original plot either... (SOC of course) But really most games usually end up where guy saves the world from something. Im just saying its not like you can escape certain story archetypes when it comes to video games.

It's abit more complex then that... :lol: Killer7 has the most messed up, wierd, complex but awesome story I've ever experienced in a game. Unforgettable imo.

well of course you find that out later, but even for a game as unique as stalker they still rely on traditional narratives to advance the story. what TC wanted is somethingr rare, and if a bit too demanding for a video game(seeing as how they cannot alienate the public too much otherwise they may loose sales). I'll take your word on killer7 though

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DraugenCP

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#144 DraugenCP
Member since 2006 • 8486 Posts

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

overcomplicated stories =/= good stories

And every games is "guy saves world from _______" and lol at MGS not having someone who suffers from paranormal disorders and cheap plot twist.

tutt3r

Then you play the wrong games. Stalker wasn't anything ike that, neither was Killer7. o_O

dunno about killer 7, but guy waking up from amnesia whos only memory is to hun someone isnt exactly the most original plot either... (SOC of course) But really most games usually end up where guy saves the world from something. Im just saying its not like you can escape certain story archetypes when it comes to video games.

While it is not the most original way to start a plot, the plot itself has a lot more to it, as was said. The story was highly unpredictable and interesting, and I found myself wanting to keep playing because I wanted to know what happened next. The game's atmosphere only made it more believable. Not to mention that this game does have some more unusual elements, such as the song that continually plays in the Bar area actually predicting the future. Then there are the multiple endings (5 false ones and 2 true ones), which in themselves contain hidden messages and even react to how the player behaved during the game. The 'humanity is corrupt' ending is definitely one of the sickest ends to a video game out there.

And that's not even mentioning the series as a whole having this kind of interesting in-game mythology that makes it very rewarding to play. SoC's story may not be on par with literature (then again, what video game story is?), but it was certainly a relief from all the games with US (space) marines fighting against alien commienazi's.

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brickdoctor

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#145 brickdoctor
Member since 2008 • 9746 Posts

Metal Gear Solid 2. It is very complex (and somewhat convoluted) throughout the whole game and can be pretty deep.

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mo0ksi

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#147 mo0ksi
Member since 2007 • 12337 Posts

.

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NAPK1NS

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#148 NAPK1NS
Member since 2004 • 14870 Posts
[QUOTE="Indie_Hitman"][QUOTE="devious742"]

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

No. No it doesn't. It's a poorly written incoherent pre-teen mess.

yes lol the part where they all of a sudden remember they all grew up together...thats when i went :lol:

YOU ******* I'M JUST 1 DAY AWAY FROM FINALLY PLAYING AND... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

Ouch. :(
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#149 svenus97
Member since 2009 • 2318 Posts

Dragon Age: Origins, people may say that the game has a cliche plot, which it kind of does, but the only cliche part is the "A group of warriors against an ancient evil". All the faction questes, the Fade, Dwarven politics, The Circle of Magi, the Werewolves, Deep Roads, Warden's Peak ! It is all so detailed and great, the basis may seem cliche, but when you read the codex, talk with NPCs, it is so much more detailed and deep. My favourite part is the Flemeth legend and all of the stories Leliana says.

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SilverChimera

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#150 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
Braid has an awesome story 8)