Gametrailers Editor-in-Chief sets his priorities straight...

[QUOTE="locopatho"]

They have different not better worlds. They are better then CODs worlds tho.

fend_oblivion

Im gonna have to agree with Gametrailers, though not fully. I would rather play a REALLY good game 20 hours long with current generation graphics, than a 5 hours long game with SNES graphics like Zelda. Thank you very much, I dont like getting scammed (by Nintendo). HOWEVER, Assasins Creed is NOT of those hig production games. GoW3 or UC3 are those games.

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

i agree with everything he said there, except for assassin's creed being used as an example of an exemplary current gen game. you guys shoudnt get so up in arms about this. its not a crazy, fringe opinion.

Im sorry, but now that graphics, character animations, and environments are becoming closer and closer to being photorealistic, it only makes sense that games should move towards cinematic presentation.

Alot of gamers arrogantly consider themselves "purists" and they are frozen in total fear at this prospect of change. they subsequently lash out at any game that tries to further this area and, with a pretentious bravado, deem them to be lesser forms of the art.

If the success of games like uncharted show anything, its that the industry isn't listening to these people. and im glad for it. Because I want more games like uncharted, heavy rain, god of war 3, killzone 3, and less games like skyward sword.

Shinobishyguy

this is the kind of pretentious"purist" attitude that im talking about

the only reaction I can conjure to someone who thinks that the uncharted games, god of war 3, killzone 3, or heavy rain have no depth in their design is just laughter

If I could take a 50 hour game with super high production values and cinematic presentation (like Zelda) over a 20 hour game (which literally almost no campaign ever reaches now a days) with said production values, I would take it.

Standards have fallen so low since online took over console multiplats.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

i agree with everything he said there, except for assassin's creed being used as an example of an exemplary current gen game. you guys shoudnt get so up in arms about this. its not a crazy, fringe opinion.

Im sorry, but now that graphics, character animations, and environments are becoming closer and closer to being photorealistic, it only makes sense that games should move towards cinematic presentation.

Alot of gamers arrogantly consider themselves "purists" and they are frozen in total fear at this prospect of change. they subsequently lash out at any game that tries to further this area and, with a pretentious bravado, deem them to be lesser forms of the art.

If the success of games like uncharted show anything, its that the industry isn't listening to these people. and im glad for it. Because I want more games like uncharted, heavy rain, god of war 3, killzone 3, and less games like skyward sword.

arbitor365

this is the kind of pretentious"purist" attitude that im talking about

the only reaction I can conjure to someone who thinks that the uncharted games, god of war 3, killzone 3, or heavy rain have no depth in their design is just laughter

If I could take a 50 hour game with super high production values and cinematic presentation (like Zelda) over a 20 hour game (which literally almost no campaign ever reaches now a days) with said production values, I would take it.

Standards have fallen so low since online took over console multiplats.

meetroid8

Lawl. You havent even played Zelda yet. Lets face, chances are (and very high) that it will be just another Zelda game. Just admit it, the only good about Zelda games is the nostalgia factor. Games have evolved both in graphics and gameplay, whereas this franchise refuses to do it because they know they can cash in from people like you.

His opinion, dont blame him tho

Sorry, Glitchspot strikes again =_= Delete if possible.

If I could take a 50 hour game with super high production values and cinematic presentation (like Zelda) over a 20 hour game (which literally almost no campaign ever reaches now a days) with said production values, I would take it.

Standards have fallen so low since online took over console multiplats.

meetroid8

Lawl. You havent even played Zelda yet. Lets face, chances are (and very high) that it will be just another Zelda game. Just admit it, the only good about Zelda games is the nostalgia factor. Games have evolved both in graphics and gameplay, whereas this franchise refuses to do it because they know they can cash in from people like you.

[QUOTE="Thunderdrone"]

[QUOTE="hensothor"]Zelda can have both. Hopefully it does next gen. hakanakumono

Zelda has ALWAYS had high production values and top of the line world and gameplay design.

It just doesnt present itself in a manner that would translate well as a summer blockuster hollywood movie. You know, the thing that single-handedly threw japanese games behind western developed titles as far as press coverage and appretiation goes.

Nowadays if you want instant coverage, go CINEMATIC!!!!

Did WW and TP really?

Give me an example of better dungeons from a non Zelda game.

Okami? Darksiders? Yeah

Im gonna have to agree with Gametrailers, though not fully. I would rather play a REALLY good game 20 hours long with current generation graphics, than a 5 hours long game with SNES graphics like Zelda. Thank you very much, I dont like getting scammed (by Nintendo). HOWEVER, Assasins Creed is NOT of those hig production games. GoW3 or UC3 are those games.

GiveMeSomething

I like...no, in fact, one of the reasons i love Gaming so much is for being "scammed" by Nintendo, i hope they can do it for another 50 years, thank you very much :)

Get off your high horse,Lucianu

lol. but of course people saying stuff like "games like uncharted have no substance or worth because they are linear" are not at all pretentious.

im not on a high horse. im just not afraid of change and innovation.

and in my humble opinion it seems that you are not quite as informed as you think regarding the diversity of gaming (a.k.a a lot of genres in gaming wouldn't benefit from a 'cinematic presentation', like, at all)Lucianu

i never said that we should phase out all genres that dont have room for cinematic presentation (though I wouldnt lose sleep over it). but im damn sure that the zelda games could benefit from some enhanced presentation and setpieces. just look at "shadow of colossus." people say SOTC was largely inspired from zelda, but to be honest I think the zelda games could learn some things from it.

And Heavy Rain was a poor man's adventure game, with a horrible story to boot, i would definitely not want more games like that. I recommend you try out some decent adventure games on the PC, your standards will most likely rise after you play them.Lucianu

the only PC adventure games that I can think of that come remotely close to heavy rain are "dead to rights" and "indigo prophesy."

I consider heavy rain to be one of the best games ever made, period. it changed the way I look at video games and even life itself.

this is the kind of pretentious"purist" attitude that im talking about

the only reaction I can conjure to someone who thinks that the uncharted games, god of war 3, killzone 3, or heavy rain have no depth in their design is just laughter

arbitor365

Uncharted and Killzone 3 are linear spectacles that rely almost entirely on presentation for its high remarks. Nothing wrong with that btw (well KZ3 is garbage but thats another story), but asking for games like Zelda to sacrifice resources normally spent on giving them depth, to boost the presentation is just... dumb

And Heavy Rain? That game has no depth whatsoever.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Thunderdrone"]

Zelda has ALWAYS had high production values and top of the line world and gameplay design.

It just doesnt present itself in a manner that would translate well as a summer blockuster hollywood movie. You know, the thing that single-handedly threw japanese games behind western developed titles as far as press coverage and appretiation goes.

Nowadays if you want instant coverage, go CINEMATIC!!!!

Thunderdrone

Did WW and TP really?

Give me an example of better dungeons from a non Zelda game.

Okami? Darksiders? Yeah

I don't really remember the dungeons in TP to be honest, but what I do remember from TP was the wolf portions of the game which I thought were uniformly bland and that the wolf mechanics were bad. I like the N64 Zelda games and from what I've played of LTTP, I'd probably put it up there with them. But overall I didn't find WW or TP to be anything exceptional.

However I don't agree with GT. The idea of Zelda attempting to be cinematic is horrifying. Even if they did a good job, it wouldn't work.

I consider heavy rain to be one of the best games ever made, period. it changed the way I look at video games and even life itself.

arbitor365

What!!! :?

Christ, go play Gabriel Knight and Broken Sword for games that did the narrative driven thing 100X better than HR, years ago.

Try not to have a heart attack if you get around playing Shattered Memories. It actually pulled off the smart, "adult" narrative, without leaving behind massive lol-inducing plotholes.

Assassins Creed 2 and onward are great games but its pretty clear that when compared to another adventure game like Zelda, one team focused their resources on production values, and the other on maintaining their pedigree of top of the line "stage" design, and gameplay mechanics. One looks very expensive, the other one feels very clever - What talent should we be encouraging here?

Thunderdrone

That's extremely debatable. You want to know what I think? I think you guys are centering too much on those few negative remarks in the podcast, that I will admit, sound a bit iffy. But then again, that was a very small part of what they touched upon in the game, and a lot of the negatives sounded extremely reasonable to me--especially coming from the guy who actually finished the game. That said, I wouldn't know, like any of you guys, I haven't played it yet.

I think it's best some of you guys come to realize that not everyone will like the game or find it the best Zelda ever. Some people are bound to be disappointed with it, and they did name their reasons for it. All you can do is play it and find out for yourself, because at this point, you don't have much if at all to argue against their points unless you contrast their experience with other people who actually touched the game to begin with.

I guess the best way of describing TP would be that it felt like it was outsourced to an outside developer. It even looked like it was outsourced (the "art" design looks like a westerner trying to replicate Japanese cartoon style).

So the guy has bad taste in video games, who cares? Just because he works for a website, it doesn't change my opinion of him one way or another.

Im gonna have to agree with Gametrailers, though not fully. I would rather play a REALLY good game 20 hours long with current generation graphics, than a 5 hours long game with SNES graphics like Zelda. Thank you very much, I dont like getting scammed (by Nintendo). HOWEVER, Assasins Creed is NOT of those hig production games. GoW3 or UC3 are those games.GiveMeSomething

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]I consider heavy rain to be one of the best games ever made, period. it changed the way I look at video games and even life itself.

Thunderdrone

What!!! :?

Christ, go play Gabriel Knight and Broken Sword for games that did the narrative driven thing 100X better than HR, years ago.

Try not to have a heart attack if you get around playing Shattered Memories. It actually pulled off the smart, "adult" narrative, without leaving behind massive lol-inducing plotholes.

if you think heavy rain is a bad game or even a mediocre game than we are simply not on the same page and your recommendations mean pretty much nothing to me.

Can't beleive this thread lasted so long, but yeah I hate when poeple bring up games like Assassins Creed when talking about Zelda. Dude AC is probably my premier HD game this generation but saying that Zelda needs to catch up to adventure games like UC and AC is laughable. Those games don't come close to Zelda in Adventure gameplay.

He's not talking about how shiny the world is. he's on about the scale, and design of it. Similar to how someone might want COD's design to borrow some elements from Crysis open battlefields, so too someone might want Zelda to borrow some of the better aspects from Ass Creed. That's how gaming evolves, competition drives things forward.

locopatho

if you think heavy rain is a bad game or even a mediocre game than we are simply not on the same page and your recommendations mean pretty much nothing to me.arbitor365

if you think heavy rain is a bad game or even a mediocre game than we are simply not on the same page and your recommendations mean pretty much nothing to me.

arbitor365

Can't beleive this thread lasted so long, but yeah I hate when poeple bring up games like Assassins Creed when talking about Zelda. Dude AC is probably my premier HD game this generation but saying that Zelda needs to catch up to adventure games like UC and AC is laughable. Those games don't come close to Zelda in Adventure gameplay.

Jolt_counter119

It's not that they come close, it's just that both games are completely different. One is more centered in sandbox gameplay, the other has a different style to it. One of them centers on historical settings, the other centers on a fantasy setting that is one of the most loved and recognized settings in video game history. One is about a more stealthy and platform approach, while the other is more centered about solving puzzles and exploring the world around us--though this falls to AC as well. In other words, I agree; both games try to do different things, so comparing them is a moot point, but so is saying that one is better than the other.

Zelda fans have been very fervent about some of the negative remarks towards the game, and that is fine, to be extremely frank the less people who tell me that there is elements to be dissatisfied about the game the better--after all I do like Zelda and I have expectations for the game.

That said, it's not that I take a reviewers word over some of the posters here, in fact I'd go so far as to say that I've come to know some of the posters gaming habits in here, where I can confidently say that I actually take their words just as much if not more at times into consideration than so called professional reaviewers. Now, that said, I'll never take any poster's word in here over someone who actually played and finished the game. It's really that simple.

i never said that we should phase out all genres that dont have room for cinematic presentation (though I wouldnt lose sleep over it). but im damn sure that the zelda games could benefit from some enhanced presentation and setpieces. just look at "shadow of colossus." people say SOTC was largely inspired from zelda, but to be honest I think the zelda games could learn some things from it.

I consider heavy rain to be one of the best games ever made, period. it changed the way I look at video games and even life itself.

arbitor365

The only thing Zelda would need are better graphics .. , rest is up for debate which i won't get into.. From my experience with this series, and i ain't even a fan - The st.yle of what Zelda has always aimed at (why its roots haven't dramatically changed over time) is very distinct, sort of reminiscent of charming fairy tales from books. Not overall, but certain aspects.

I don't think this series is stuck in the past, apart from those outdated visuals. I think some people, like that editor from gametrailers, just don't know what they are talking about, simple as that.

And i just don't know how you can say that about Heavy Rain, but i'm gonna respect your view on that game, since i know the feeling because i have a couple of games that really changed some of my views.

[QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]

Can't beleive this thread lasted so long, but yeah I hate when poeple bring up games like Assassins Creed when talking about Zelda. Dude AC is probably my premier HD game this generation but saying that Zelda needs to catch up to adventure games like UC and AC is laughable. Those games don't come close to Zelda in Adventure gameplay.

StealthSting

It's not that they come close, it's just that both games are completely different. One is more centered in sandbox gameplay, the other has a different style to it. One of them centers on historical settings, the other centers on a fantasy setting that is one of the most loved and recognized settings in video game history. One is about a more stealthy and platform approach, while the other is more centered about solving puzzles and exploring the world around us--though this falls to AC as well. In other words, I agree; both games try to do different things, so comparing them is a moot point, but so is saying that one is better than the other.

Zelda fans have been very fervent about some of the negative remarks towards the game, and that is fine, to be extremely frank the less people who tell me that there is elements to be dissatisfied about the game the better--after all I do like Zelda and I have expectations for the game.

That said, it's not that I take a reviewers word over some of the posters here, in fact I'd go so far as to say that I've come to know some of the posters gaming habits in here, where I can confidently say that I actually take their words just as much if not more at times into consideration than so called professional reaviewers. Now, that said, I'll never take any poster's word in here over someone who actually played and finished the game. It's really that simple.

I don't really take anyones word I just read the reviews and sometimes I come across things that don't make sense. I don't get why you would bring up Assassins Creed to talk about Zelda in a negative way when they do have nothing in common. Just because he's played it doesn't mean I have to take his word when I look at every one else basically praising the controls and some even hating them for working TOO good, then he says they don't work a lot.

There was a lot in his video that pretty much told me that this is a guy who isn't open minded about things and doesn't want any sort of change unless it's change to conform to what everyone else is doing.

Edit: basically what I mean is that I wait till I play it but some reviewers opinion bug me not because they are different and don't like some things that others do but when they sound fanboyish and uprofessional.

I don't get why you would bring up Assassins Creed to talk about Zelda in a negative way when they do have nothing in common. Just because he's played it doesn't mean I have to take his word when I look at every one else basically praising the controls and some even hating them for working TOO good, then he says they don't work a lot.

There was a lot in his video that pretty much told me that this is a guy who isn't open minded about things and doesn't want any sort of change unless it's change to conform to what everyone else is doing.

Edit: basically what I mean is that I wait till I play it but some reviewers opinion bug me not because they are different and don't like some things that others do but when they sound fanboyish and uprofessional.

Jolt_counter119

No you don't have to take his word. And I agree, the AC example really did make me go--wtf are you talking about? That said, the other guy, Marc I think? Did bring out some valid complaints that one could expect from the game, and he didn't sound unreasonable at all. Besides the game has been getting great reviews, but not all of the ones I've read found the game to be that stellar. I'm sure that by now, the game has gone down from the 9.7 mark that it had at metacritic the last time I saw it here in SW--not that I would give much of a crap anyway. That said, my point is that not everyone is finding the game to be the best thing since sliced bread.

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]if you think heavy rain is a bad game or even a mediocre game than we are simply not on the same page and your recommendations mean pretty much nothing to me.foxhound_fox

lol heavy rain is not a widely panned game. in fact, everyone I know who has played loves it.

its critically acclaimed as well. i boasts 9 10/10 scores and 65 scores in the 9 range. so dont act like im on here praising some obscure crappy game.

you have an extreme exaggerated hatred that isnt merited whatsoever. but of course, I do remember you saying in my "games you love to hate" thread

Sony exclusives. Just for the reaction and massive damage control from cows.foxhound_fox

who is the real one goading for a reaction?

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]if you think heavy rain is a bad game or even a mediocre game than we are simply not on the same page and your recommendations mean pretty much nothing to me.foxhound_fox

who is the real one goading for a reaction?arbitor365

does anyone care what Gametrailers say?

they are biased towards everything that isnt call of duty and aything that isnt on Xbox

Normally I have a lot of respect for your opinions, but have you even played the game fox? I'm not saying it's the best game ever but I thought it was a really good game.Bigboi500

Heavy Rain was pretty shallow. People contested that it was a game and wasn't a playable movie, but in the end, I foudn it to be one. That being said, it had great atmosphere and the presentation was great throughout. It sucked me in. However, the story wasn't that great. I don't know if I would buy a spiritual sequel.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Normally I have a lot of respect for your opinions, but have you even played the game fox? I'm not saying it's the best game ever but I thought it was a really good game.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

So you are pre-emptively trying to discredit GT before they drop an unfavourable Zelda review?

Thunderdrone

I read what your op says, but we all know the real reason for this thread. Ironically I agree with your statements, however that doesn't hide the true purpose of the thread.

Heavy Rain was pretty shallow. People contested that it was a game and wasn't a playable movie, but in the end, I foudn it to be one. That being said, it had great atmosphere and the presentation was great throughout. It sucked me in. However, the story wasn't that great. I don't know if I would buy a spiritual sequel.

hakanakumono

Im not in the mood now to read 12 pages of people's opinions ( I will go back and read though :P ).

Skyward's mechanics and level design are going to be excellent Im 100% sure of this, however, the guy has a point here, I'd like to walk in a vilage in Zelda filled with NPCs walking around like in Assassins Creed, the game's world would be more lively than ever and Im quite confident it would be even more engaging and exciting than a game like Assassins Creed, it's Zelda and it's nintendo they could shake things up for the whole industry to see and experience.

plus using stuff like motion capture could make the animations top-notch.

I read what your op says, but we all know the real reason for this thread. Ironically I agree with your statements, however that doesn't hide the true purpose of the thread.

GD1551

Im not in the mood now to read 12 pages of people's opinions ( I will go back and read though :P ).

Skyward's mechanics and level design are going to be excellent Im 100% sure of this, however, the guy has a point here, I'd like to walk in a vilage in Zelda filled with NPCs walking around like in Assassins Creed, the game's world would be more lively than ever and Im quite confident it would be even more engaging and exciting than a game like Assassins Creed, it's Zelda and it's nintendo they could shake things up for the whole industry to see and experience.

plus using stuff like motion capture could make the animations top-notch.

HAZE-Unit

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Im not in the mood now to read 12 pages of people's opinions ( I will go back and read though :P ).

Skyward's mechanics and level design are going to be excellent Im 100% sure of this, however, the guy has a point here, I'd like to walk in a vilage in Zelda filled with NPCs walking around like in Assassins Creed, the game's world would be more lively than ever and Im quite confident it would be even more engaging and exciting than a game like Assassins Creed, it's Zelda and it's nintendo they could shake things up for the whole industry to see and experience.

plus using stuff like motion capture could make the animations top-notch.

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Im not in the mood now to read 12 pages of people's opinions ( I will go back and read though :P ).

Skyward's mechanics and level design are going to be excellent Im 100% sure of this, however, the guy has a point here, I'd like to walk in a vilage in Zelda filled with NPCs walking around like in Assassins Creed, the game's world would be more lively than ever and Im quite confident it would be even more engaging and exciting than a game like Assassins Creed, it's Zelda and it's nintendo they could shake things up for the whole industry to see and experience.

plus using stuff like motion capture could make the animations top-notch.

Bigboi500

Im completely aware of that and that's part of the critisim maybe his dissatisfaction of Skward Sword comes from the fact it's on the Wii and the Wii U?

I have the same feeling about Skyward, the game looks fantastic but I wished if Nintendo just waited and brought this game to Wii U to showcase their vision and concept of the game even more.

Now we have to wait another 3-4 years until a new Zelda game to see what it looks and feels to play Zelda in HD.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Im not in the mood now to read 12 pages of people's opinions ( I will go back and read though :P ).

Skyward's mechanics and level design are going to be excellent Im 100% sure of this, however, the guy has a point here, I'd like to walk in a vilage in Zelda filled with NPCs walking around like in Assassins Creed, the game's world would be more lively than ever and Im quite confident it would be even more engaging and exciting than a game like Assassins Creed, it's Zelda and it's nintendo they could shake things up for the whole industry to see and experience.

plus using stuff like motion capture could make the animations top-notch.

locopatho

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Im not in the mood now to read 12 pages of people's opinions ( I will go back and read though :P ).

Skyward's mechanics and level design are going to be excellent Im 100% sure of this, however, the guy has a point here, I'd like to walk in a vilage in Zelda filled with NPCs walking around like in Assassins Creed, the game's world would be more lively than ever and Im quite confident it would be even more engaging and exciting than a game like Assassins Creed, it's Zelda and it's nintendo they could shake things up for the whole industry to see and experience.

plus using stuff like motion capture could make the animations top-notch.

locopatho

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Im not in the mood now to read 12 pages of people's opinions ( I will go back and read though :P ).

Skyward's mechanics and level design are going to be excellent Im 100% sure of this, however, the guy has a point here, I'd like to walk in a vilage in Zelda filled with NPCs walking around like in Assassins Creed, the game's world would be more lively than ever and Im quite confident it would be even more engaging and exciting than a game like Assassins Creed, it's Zelda and it's nintendo they could shake things up for the whole industry to see and experience.

plus using stuff like motion capture could make the animations top-notch.

HAZE-Unit

Im completely aware of that and that's part of the critisim maybe his dissatisfaction of Skward Sword comes from the fact it's on the Wii and the Wii U?

I have the same feeling about Skyward, the game looks fantastic but I wished if Nintendo just waited and brought this game to Wii U to showcase their vision and concept of the game even more.

Now we have to wait another 3-4 years until a new Zelda game to see what it looks and feels to play Zelda in HD.

[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]As already said in the thread, that stuff will be possible on the Wii U, but not on the Wii. If they judge the technical aspects of this game based off of something not possible on the Wii, they're idiots plain and simple.

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"] I don't think lowering their standards would be a good idea. If a Wii game has a problem, just blaming it on the tech is not an answer. I stress the "IF" before everyone throws SS tens at me :) locopatho

[QUOTE="GiveMeSomething"]Im gonna have to agree with Gametrailers, though not fully. I would rather play a REALLY good game 20 hours long with current generation graphics, than a 5 hours long game with SNES graphics like Zelda. Thank you very much, I dont like getting scammed (by Nintendo). HOWEVER, Assasins Creed is NOT of those hig production games. GoW3 or UC3 are those games.foxhound_fox

That was an obvious typo >_> I meant 50 hours. Gamespot is glitching on me at the moment D: