Good-Bye Nintendo
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Where is that Pilotwings or Kid Icarus > Oh that's right its being abanded in place of Wii Fit. And how about Star Fox the franchise Nintendo has bbeen trying to destroy for quite a while. And subrosian: watch out you can get banned for posting too many times in one thread. That's what happenned to MclarkenAK47[QUOTE="kage_53"].[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]. How is Nintendo turning its back on its long time supporters when they are releasing all their c-l-a-s-s-i-c franchises that we have been clamoring for?sparkypants
Too bad too I was looking foward to a new Starfox, though I dont think I want to sit though all this WiiFit and casual games in order to get that one cool game. Oh btw a new kid Icarus would have been cool too
i know and i dont want them to just listen to everyone who wants starfox 64. I liked it when rare made starfox adventures. they tried to give starfox games a story and add some depth to fox as a character. which was great oh by the way one of my personal favorite games. The voice acting in starfox assault was bad. i want the old starfox voice actors back. also I want retro to make the game. namco was so bad at making a good starfox game. I want a good combination of starfox gameplay mixed with a little jet force gemini mayham. That would be great.Where is that Pilotwings or Kid Icarus > Oh that's right its being abanded in place of Wii Fit. And how about Star Fox the franchise Nintendo has bbeen trying to destroy for quite a while. And subrosian: watch out you can get banned for posting too many times in one thread. That's what happenned to MclarkenAK47[QUOTE="kage_53"].[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]. How is Nintendo turning its back on its long time supporters when they are releasing all their c-l-a-s-s-i-c franchises that we have been clamoring for?sparkypants
Too bad too I was looking foward to a new Starfox, though I dont think I want to sit though all this WiiFit and casual games in order to get that one cool game. Oh btw a new kid Icarus would have been cool too
Lets not forget Nintendo selling Rare and losing other hardcore games such as Conkers, Banjo Kazooie, perfect dark, as well as Star Fox and Donkey Kong games. Instead Wii owners get DK Barrel Bongo Jet Blast. They have truly lost the plot.
well what i'm concerned about is a spillover effect. if nintendo ends up winning this generation (which at their current pace doesn't seem unrealistic), it might panic MS and Sony into making their systems much more casual friendly as well
sure, both of them will probably keep expanding their online platforms and stick to some of their proven franchises, but they might see the Wii's success and say, "wait a minute, maybe Ninty's right, maybe we need to reorient our businesses to casuals in order to win."
last thing i want to see is the xbox 1080 and PS4 coming out with their own stable of simplistic party games and fitness peripherals at the expense of greater dedication to hardcore titles
[QUOTE="sparkypants"]Where is that Pilotwings or Kid Icarus > Oh that's right its being abanded in place of Wii Fit. And how about Star Fox the franchise Nintendo has bbeen trying to destroy for quite a while. And subrosian: watch out you can get banned for posting too many times in one thread. That's what happenned to MclarkenAK47[QUOTE="kage_53"].[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]. How is Nintendo turning its back on its long time supporters when they are releasing all their c-l-a-s-s-i-c franchises that we have been clamoring for?Gismo25
Too bad too I was looking foward to a new Starfox, though I dont think I want to sit though all this WiiFit and casual games in order to get that one cool game. Oh btw a new kid Icarus would have been cool too
Lets not forget Nintendo selling Rare and losing other hardcore games such as Conkers, Banjo Kazooie, perfect dark, as well as Star Fox and Donkey Kong games. Instead Wii owners get DK Barrel Bongo Jet Blast. They have truly lost the plot.
and they also havent taken any chance it rebuilding there own "rare" put some money into Retro. u have profits. why not make retro a bigger dev. give them more resources. more budgets. have them make the new starfox not namco who ruined it. make retro or even Miyamoto do a new DK platformer. lets go back to what the Nintendo fans want. I mean its one thing when they slap other hardcore gamers in the face. But why slap the hardcore Nintendo fanbase. they have carried Nintendo for the last 20 years.Although I play hardcore games, I've got to admit that I disagree with the TC.
The Wii has made it fun for all to come together and play games. Sure, you've got XBOX Live and Playstation Network. Heck, even I have XBOX Live, but the experience is just isn't the same. Sure, the Wii targets more people, but doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, I wasn't ever a Nintendo fan, nor have I ever played Metroid Prime or Zelda (I've played a bit), I wouldn't really understand "hardcore" Nintendo games.
I've played the Mario series, I've played the Star Fox series and love both even to this day. The Wii is introducing so many people back to gaming or introducing them to gaming because it's such a great revolution with the Wiimote. The Wiimote has the selling point that people love to see which Sony and Microsoft doesn't see.
Plus, in a business point of view, it's of course feasible for them to target the 90% non-gamers and light-gamers than hardcore gamers that only make up 10% of the population.
Fine, that you left Nintendo, but many of us gamers are jumping into the Wii. Fine, maybe the Wii isn't hardcore for you hardcore gamers and that's fine. However, it doesn't mean that Nintendo isn't making the right choices for their business and it's not ruining the industry per se, but expanding it.
gnutux
.[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]. How is Nintendo turning its back on its long time supporters when they are releasing all their c-l-a-s-s-i-c franchises that we have been clamoring for?kage_53Where is that Pilotwings or Kid Icarus. Oh that's right its being abanded in place of Wii Fit. And how about Star Fox the franchise Nintendo has been trying to destroy for quite a while. And subrosian: watch out you can get banned for posting too many times in one thread. That's what happenned to MclarkenAK47Kid Icarus hasn't been seen since the days of the original Gameboy. Heck, his inclusion in Smash is the first appearance of the guy in a game in development as a playable character since then.
I find it funny that you say Nintendo is "softening" all its franchises, yet you have no proof of this what so ever, since you haven't played any of their upcoming games. I'm beginning to think you haven't even read any of the hands-on previews of Mario Galaxy or MP3, which have done nothing but pretty much praised the games and the way they control.
Another thing I find funny is that you think "softening" a game or making it more accessibleis bad, yet you are playing Elder Scrolls: Oblivion which is pretty much a dumbed down version of Morrowind.peaceful_anger
I've given my evidence in Nintendo's comments, however I am well aware the Oblivion fails to achieve what other Eldar Scrolls titles have. That's why I mentioned in this very thread, and in other posts, that I'm concerned about Betheseda being the one to make Fallout 3.
While there are some points I agree with you on, there are others that I have to say your totally wrong on.
... people who don't like videogames - people who play things like DDR, Guitar Hero...subrosian
This gets the biggest :| in the world from me, as I'm an avid Rhythm Game Player. I'd really like to see you play Sakura on Heavy on Supernova, or play Bark at the Moon on Extreme from Guitar Hero. While these games, and they are games, do feature the pick up and play that someone who isn't familiar with them, the further you get into the game, the harder it gets. That's why these games are know as "Arcade" types. Arcade type games feature the pick-up and play gameplay, but tend to hand you your butt if you try to get too far into the game without honing your skills.
Next time you pick your examples, make sure pick the right games to go with what your saying. I never want to see "Jane Fonda Workout" next to Guitar Hero again. :|
Nintendo isn't dying, they were though, they were dying, losing marketshare, and they found this huge new market with the Wii... and unfortunately, much like Sega, they hold our old favorites hostage. So what do we get? Our best games come with concessions - Metroid Prime 3 will be built around "the zapper", goes back to stacked beams, and features basically a "turbo charged" mode -why? All in the interest of making the bastion of Nintendo's "hardcore" catalog still sell to some of the same people who will buy Wii Fitness.
subrosian
So I guess the previous 2D Metroid games were built for the Non-Gamer by having stacked beams? :| If anything, the inclusion of this feature is more listening to the wants of the Metroid fanbase more than anything else. Also, the Game is still built around the "Wiimote in one hand, Nunchuck in the other" control scheme. Looking at the design of the announced Zapper add-on, it's going to be a pain to pull off the shields of the Pirates with the Nunchuck tied down like it is there. Also, the Turbo mode sounds more of a design decision to be able to include more active firefights rather than to appeal to any sort of "Non-Gamer". If you consider that a "Non-Gamer" addition, then I guess that the "bullet time" mode added in to Max Payne and FEAR are also "Non-Gamer" additions.
Twilight Princess was one of the easiest Zelda games I've ever played, Super Paper Mario was time-consuming, but not exactly *challenging*, and Super Smash Brawl might not feature online gameplay.
subrosian
I replayed ALttP on my Gameboy advance several times. While it is still my favorite Zelda, I did notice something on my last playthrough this month. I don't know if its just the fact I know where everything is, but it didn't seem that difficult anymore. I sat down and realized that it was never really difficult in the first place anyway. I remember the difficulty of the game being the same from the first time I played it on my SNES when I was younger, till the last time I played it before we sold off the SNES. After realizing this, I went and played through OoT from my Collector's Edition disk, and It wasn't difficult at all(well, the water temple was still frustrating). I don't really thing Zelda Games have been all that difficult since the 2nd game. The only really difficult part of the first game was that you didn't know where to go, and ended up wandering around looking for your next doungeon. At least to me, the sign of Zelda games not being that difficult isn't a sign that Nintendo is dumbing them down, its that I'm getting better as a gamer.
And that was, by far, one of the worst parts of the show - "made you didn't notice that we already have online gameplay?" ... maybe Nintendo didn't notice that PC, Xbox 360, and PS3 have services that are lightyears ahead of what I do on a DS or Wii? I don't feel like I have "the world" in the palm of my hand when I play Mario Kart online on my DS - I feel like I might as well be playing against the AI - I can't identify if I'm really playing the same people again, there's no ranking, I can't talk to my opponents, I can't see my opponents - where is the online social interaction?
subrosian
Yes, let's compare the DS to the PC or any next gen system, and uses one of its first online games to boot. :|
Maybe you should looks at what Strikers Charged is doing for its online system. Online ranking with Seasons, showing who is doing the best for the entire season, and also a frequently updated stat as to who is on top for the day. Also a system to show who is online with the game at the same time you are. Heck, if you want to chart the slow evolution of the DS online, while Mario Kart featured a barebones online of either playing with friends, random people from your region, or random people from the world, with no communication between players and no way to add FCs ingame, and no penality for disconnecting; Hunters'(I refuse to add Metriod Prime onto the title :P ) online featured voice communication between your friends before and after a match, penality for disconnecting during a match, and the ability to add people after a match to your FC list. Yes it is slow, but the online system is evolving, and will probably continue to evolve over the course of the life of the respective handheld and console.
Nintendo is in a situation where, quite frankly, we, the longtime gamers, are supporting them out of nostalgia. If the actual *games* Nintendo is releasing - Metroid, Mario, Smash, et cetera - were the same games, but with new characters and titles, would we be buying them. Honestly, look in your heart and tell me you'd buy MP3 without the "M". This doesn't just apply to Nintendo - Halo 3 *looks awful* by comparisson to other FPS titles coming out this year - it hasn't *evolved* enough - the FPS genre moves and improve so quickly - yet Halo 3 looks archaic. Yet MP3 looks *even more* archaic, and we support it, why? Because it's Metroid. I'm as guilty as the next guy of doing this.subrosian
If your talking in terms of graphics, you should have expected that from the start. If your talking about gameplay, I'm sorry to show my prefrence here, but the Prime series, at its heart, has always been a first person action adventure game with platforming and shooting elements added in. Now, I'll hold off judgement on Prime 3, but would I buy the Prime games if they didn't have the Metroid label on them? Yes I would. When Prime first came out, I was one of the people that was extremely worried that the transistion from 2D to 3D would ruin the game, but I was overjoyed when the game felt right. The Prime games, with me, haven't been about the fact I was Samus, or fighting Pirates, or anything Metroid, it has always been about the sublime gameplay that I really loved and enjoyed, and the quality of production that was put into the games.
All in all, from my point of view, your angry that you, as a hardcore gamer, is no longer an exclusive focus of Nintendo. That instead of the "Non-Gamer" initiative being a small side project, you take offense that it is being given the main focus right along side the Hardcore gamer.
I'm sorry, this all might not be the level of logic or cohesiveness I usually have - I have no intention of becoming a fanboy or a hater or anything else, but I'm done with Nintendo - I am washing my hands of them. For me it's about more than the games, it's also about the vision behind those games, about what you're trying to do with them. Yesterday's showcase was a disgusting display of chest-pounding arrogance and a clear showing that Nintendo does not view games as art.
"Games are for everyone" doesn't mean you should stop making games for me. I always thought, as a kid when I played Gameboy, that Nintendo would grow up with me, and they haven't. Sega and Nintendo, hand-in-hand walked me down a brightly coloured path to living gaming - and now both of them are gone. Nintendo... Sega... gone. I thought they were gone last year, and I gave them one last chance here, I tried to be open-minded, but I can't do it anymore.
I cannot accept Nintendo's vision for gaming. I do not support the idea that titles such as Wii Fitness should be showcased as videogames.I'm done Nintendo. You do what you want to do, you will never get another dollar from me. Say good-bye to the tens of thousands I've spent on your products over the years. Frankly, it's my finest wish that every other longtime Nintendo fan do the same. Hardcore gamers represent a great deal of software sales - as long as we continue to support their "blended" market - where they make *just enough* of a hardcore spin on ****c franchises to tempt us, they will be able to keep being insanely profitable.
I'm done. I'm sick and tired of having to hold my breath and pray - Sony this year "got it" - they were humble, they showed games, and they said "thanks for being here guys." Nintendo doesn't care. Sonic and Mario standing together in the same game should be enough of a warning sign to longtime gamers - hegehogs and plumbers running down a track together (at the same height, might I add, though Sega keeps changing how tall Sonic is every game, it's getting annoying) is, I believe, one of the signs of the apocalypse.
Nintendo's world has ended, and I'm done with it. Bye, see ya. Time to get a second or third job, because the future of gaming as I enjoy it does not lie in your competively priced "plug-n-play" remote controlled gaming box.subrosian
Its also in my opinion that Nintendo games haven't been that "hard" since the NES. Long, yes. But hard, no. Heck, if you knew what to do, SMB3 was a breeze.
With games like Brawl(with or without the online), Super Mario Galaxies, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Strikers Charged, Pikmin(recent interviews with Miyamoto have shown that "he hasn't forgotten about them"), Mario Kart(with hints about an obvious expanded online mode), and Animal Crossing(You can get addicted and hardcore about this game, believe me) show that Nintendo still knows that its fans are out there, and do want those games, but the fans have to realize that we will have to share the limelight with the Brain Age, Nintendogs loving "Non-Gamers".
well what i'm concerned about is a spillover effect. if nintendo ends up winning this generation (which at their current pace doesn't seem unrealistic), it might panic MS and Sony into making their systems much more casual friendly as well
sure, both of them will probably keep expanding their online platforms and stick to some of their proven franchises, but they might see the Wii's success and say, "wait a minute, maybe Ninty's right, maybe we need to reorient our businesses to casuals in order to win."
last thing i want to see is the xbox 1080 and PS4 coming out with their own stable of simplistic party games and fitness peripherals at the expense of greater dedication to hardcore titles
mwa
Your absolutly right! Nintendo is actually winning the GEN I mean they are really catching up to the 360, This means the 360/PS3 are going to think this is what gamers want,this is where the money is at. I mean even now its starting to happen, I mean the 360 is trying to bring SceneIt into the gaming world. I may be over reacting but the Wii could equal the end of gaming as we know it
[QUOTE="Gismo25"][QUOTE="sparkypants"]Where is that Pilotwings or Kid Icarus > Oh that's right its being abanded in place of Wii Fit. And how about Star Fox the franchise Nintendo has bbeen trying to destroy for quite a while. And subrosian: watch out you can get banned for posting too many times in one thread. That's what happenned to MclarkenAK47[QUOTE="kage_53"].[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]. How is Nintendo turning its back on its long time supporters when they are releasing all their c-l-a-s-s-i-c franchises that we have been clamoring for?jg4xchamp
Too bad too I was looking foward to a new Starfox, though I dont think I want to sit though all this WiiFit and casual games in order to get that one cool game. Oh btw a new kid Icarus would have been cool too
Lets not forget Nintendo selling Rare and losing other hardcore games such as Conkers, Banjo Kazooie, perfect dark, as well as Star Fox and Donkey Kong games. Instead Wii owners get DK Barrel Bongo Jet Blast. They have truly lost the plot.
and they also havent taken any chance it rebuilding there own "rare" put some money into Retro. u have profits. why not make retro a bigger dev. give them more resources. more budgets. have them make the new starfox not namco who ruined it. make retro or even Miyamoto do a new DK platformer. lets go back to what the Nintendo fans want. I mean its one thing when they slap other hardcore gamers in the face. But why slap the hardcore Nintendo fanbase. they have carried Nintendo for the last 20 years.What has happened to Star Fox since the N64 has been absolutely tragic, I miss the SNES and N64 versions, I still play them every now and then. What they've done with the IP since then has been dissapointing. I'd like to see true Star Fox titles appear again, I simply don't see that happening, given their new audience.
[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"] I find it funny that you say Nintendo is "softening" all its franchises, yet you have no proof of this what so ever, since you haven't played any of their upcoming games. I'm beginning to think you haven't even read any of the hands-on previews of Mario Galaxy or MP3, which have done nothing but pretty much praised the games and the way they control.
Another thing I find funny is that you think "softening" a game or making it more accessibleis bad, yet you are playing Elder Scrolls: Oblivion which is pretty much a dumbed down version of Morrowind.subrosian
I've given my evidence in Nintendo's comments, however I am well aware the Oblivion fails to achieve what other Eldar Scrolls titles have. That's why I mentioned in this very thread, and in other posts, that I'm concerned about Betheseda being the one to make Fallout 3.
So you're basing this whole thread on your so called evidence inNintendo's comments, yet you don't believe them when they say they are not abandoning their fanbase. To me, it seems if you believe the comments they made, then you would also believe them when they say they're not abandoning their core fanbase.
Seriously, instead of focusing solely on Nintendo's comments, why don't you go read some previews of Mario Galaxy and MP3. If you go to Gamespot's MP3 page and actually read their hands-on preview of the game, you would see that they are not dumbing the game down. Now there is your real evidence.
Edited-Oh congrats on your thread making it past the 1000th post.
[QUOTE="Gismo25"][QUOTE="sparkypants"]Where is that Pilotwings or Kid Icarus > Oh that's right its being abanded in place of Wii Fit. And how about Star Fox the franchise Nintendo has bbeen trying to destroy for quite a while. And subrosian: watch out you can get banned for posting too many times in one thread. That's what happenned to MclarkenAK47[QUOTE="kage_53"].[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]. How is Nintendo turning its back on its long time supporters when they are releasing all their c-l-a-s-s-i-c franchises that we have been clamoring for?jg4xchamp
Too bad too I was looking foward to a new Starfox, though I dont think I want to sit though all this WiiFit and casual games in order to get that one cool game. Oh btw a new kid Icarus would have been cool too
Lets not forget Nintendo selling Rare and losing other hardcore games such as Conkers, Banjo Kazooie, perfect dark, as well as Star Fox and Donkey Kong games. Instead Wii owners get DK Barrel Bongo Jet Blast. They have truly lost the plot.
and they also havent taken any chance it rebuilding there own "rare" put some money into Retro. u have profits. why not make retro a bigger dev. give them more resources. more budgets. have them make the new starfox not namco who ruined it. make retro or even Miyamoto do a new DK platformer. lets go back to what the Nintendo fans want. I mean its one thing when they slap other hardcore gamers in the face. But why slap the hardcore Nintendo fanbase. they have carried Nintendo for the last 20 years.*Imagines retro doing a Star Fox Wii game*Ohhhhhhhhhhh yeah that's the good stuff.
[QUOTE="luigigreen"][QUOTE="renger6002"][QUOTE="luigigreen"]Good post. Very thought provoking. But, I disagree with you. Nintendo decided to try and create a system that would appeal to more people, and everyone out there seems like it's a bad move. First of all, the fact that Nintendo tried to expand the market not only helps Nintendo but it helps the industry as a whole. If your were to stay in the same niche forever, then the market would become stagnant. You need more consumers for a growing industry, otherwise many companies would collapse as they would be forced out of business due to a lac of profit. What Nintendo is doing is opening the door for developers to come in and create new and exciting games for not just the Wii/DS but for the 360, the PC, and the PS3. You've said that they have dumbed down there games. They might have with the past few games, but ti seems like Nintendo is taking a step to try and fix this. Look at Galaxy. It was called the only worthy successor to Super Mario 64. It shows that Nintendo knows they screwed up on Sunshine, but are at least acknowledging the fact that they messed up and are trying to rectify it. The developer team has even complained the Myamoto that the game is becoming too hard. Look at Smash Bros. It's going to be even more complex. Yes, Nintendo may have failed to appeal to the hardcore segment of their userbase with the past few games, but looking at Galaxy, Brawl, and MP3, they are trying to rectify this. You've also said that alot of people buy these games out of nostalgia. These games may have been using classic characters, but the games are still impressive. Lets say you don't put LoZ characters on TP and call it a new game. It would be very impressive for a first game in a new IP. Lets say it was not made by Nintendo and say, by a new developer. The game would be amazing for a first time developer. What people are doing, which is unfair, is that they put so much pressure on Nintendo to make the next "messiah" game, one that would be perfect, that when the fall short, people say it was a failure. Think about how good a game would have to be when you have innovated in gaming over the past 20 years. It would be pretty hard. You've also shown a distaste in there online approach. Yes, their online may be some what behind other systems, but they are trying to rectify this. Look at Charged. There will be tournaments, leaderboards, one vs one, two vs two, and more. Same with Mario Kart. My prediction is that the game will be able to support 8 players via online connection. Hopefully, there will be leaderboards, torunaments, challeneges, and more. They have also confirmed that there will even be online battle modes. If they do not implement this, then you can say that they are behind. Even the third part devs are starting to bring online to the Wii. Look at Madden, Fifa, Dragon Quest, and Call of Duty, which will be able to support up to 32 players. Once again, Nintendo is trying to make ammends. Lastly, you say that they only target their products to casual segment of the market. IMO, that is just not true. Yes, you have games like Wii Fit and Wii Sports, but these are games are meant to lead people to other, more challenging games. What happens when someone becomes too good at Wii Sports, or they decide that it has become stale? They will move onto something else, as they would be looking for a challenge. These games are meant to bring more people into playing games, more challenging games. Almost everyone starts off a casual player, as they start with very simple games. Once you start beating games like these, you start looking for a challenge. Basically, Nintendo is opening a door to non-gamers to come and enjoy their system, to experience gaming, and then to move onto something else. Basically, I find you that you make very good points, but I think that you are wrong. Your post was very thought provoking. I am disapointed that you have given up on Nintendo. They might not be the perfect company, no company is, but they still tend to cater to there user base. I try and be patient with Nintendo and I expect them to deliver games that are a fresh and truly unique experience. You may not like the direction Nintendo is going, but I see it as a new beginning. Without opening up th market, gaming would become stagnant. Nintendo is offering a breath of fresh air. And that's the quality I find most appealing to the Nintendo and the Wii.subrosian
wow.... make thread using that post
But then it wouldn't be relevant to the thread anymore. Most of my arguments are counter-points.I make good points, but I am wrong? So, I'm good at being wrong? Like, the James Bond of being wrong? One game does not an online service make, nor does essentially being a decade behind in that arena.
Again, as I've said, there is absolutely no evidence that there is a transition for a non-gamer to being a core gamer. Casuals can become core if they stick with gaming and start demanding quality games, simply because they tire of generic titles. However, non-gamers are here for something else entirely, and demand a different kind of title. There is not a transition from Wii Fitness to Counterstrike that happens for non-gamers, and the Nintendo fans who are hoping this occurs are essentially agreeing with my statements that Nintendo's current game library is moving in the wrong direction for the core gamer, and quite possibly for themselves. What I meant to say was that you brought up some good points, but IMO, you are wrong about them. They are very well detailed, but I think that they are wrong. What do expect from Nintendo? Do you expect them to make 30 games, and all of them implement online play? Nintendo is currently working on 6 games for the Wii, as we know of. Wii fit, SSBB, MP3, Mario Kart Wii, SMG, and Charged. Of those 6, 2 are confirmed online, Mario Kart and Charged, 1 is in the maybe, SSBB, 2 are not online, SMG and MP3, and Wii fit will also probably not be online. So there is a chance that 50% of the games Nintendo is making is going to be online. Is that not enough? No. Ok then, how about all the third part support such as Madden, Fifa, Dragon Quest and more that have not been announced. Your forgetting that most systems online play is not done by games that the company has developed but by third party devs. I don't think Nintendo is moving in a wrong direction, I think they are moving in a different direction. What your doing is nitpicking at Nintendo. Right now, they have to appeal to 2 major audiences in there games, hardcore gamers and casual/non-gamers. What they are trying to do is to find the right balance between the 2 groups in each of there games, and you are nitpicking this fact, that Nintendo is trying to appeal too all of it's customers. Instead of other companies, where they have games aimed at non-gamers and games aimed at gamers, they are trying to balance both. If you aim the game at hardcore consumers, then most casual gamers will be discourged from playing, as they will find the game too challenging. If you make it too easy, the hardcore will start to get upset. It's very hard to try and balance the both, and we will see how they are going to do it in their upcoming games.
[QUOTE="mwa"]well what i'm concerned about is a spillover effect. if nintendo ends up winning this generation (which at their current pace doesn't seem unrealistic), it might panic MS and Sony into making their systems much more casual friendly as well
sure, both of them will probably keep expanding their online platforms and stick to some of their proven franchises, but they might see the Wii's success and say, "wait a minute, maybe Ninty's right, maybe we need to reorient our businesses to casuals in order to win."
last thing i want to see is the xbox 1080 and PS4 coming out with their own stable of simplistic party games and fitness peripherals at the expense of greater dedication to hardcore titles
sparkypants
Your absolutly right! Nintendo is actually winning the GEN I mean they are really catching up to the 360, This means the 360/PS3 are going to think this is what gamers want,this is where the money is at. I mean even now its starting to happen, I mean the 360 is trying to bring SceneIt into the gaming world. I may be over reacting but the Wii could equal the end of gaming as we know it
OMG! Ending the world of gaming as we know it. That's not blowing it way out of preportion :roll:. I mean, it would be impossible for someone to try and think of a different direction to try and expand the market. I think people are taking this whole "Nintendo trying to innovate" thing way too seriously. This will not be the end of traditional gaming. There will always be a place for truly epic games, not matter what console it is. Nintendo is only trying to offer new and fresh ideas to not only people familar with gaming, but to people who aren't.With the announcement of Wii Fit, I knew this was the final nail in the coffin. The game has no depth, it's like Brain Age. I saw the video and it was quick and short but no depth or lasting value. This is exactly the things that appeal toa casual.
I see nothing in the release list that appeals to a gamer who likes games like Mass Effect, Bioshock or GTA. Even the new Resident Evil 5 reminded me why Nintendo could boast about sales all day long, it can't even handle a game like that. And what's the point of sales when you wont get great games like that? RE: Umbrella Chronicles is a poor substitute
What I meant to say was that you brought up some good points, but IMO, you are wrong about them. They are very well detailed, but I think that they are wrong. What do expect from Nintendo? Do you expect them to make 30 games, and all of them implement online play? Nintendo is currently working on 6 games for the Wii, as we know of. Wii fit, SSBB, MP3, Mario Kart Wii, SMG, and Charged. Of those 6, 2 are confirmed online, Mario Kart and Charged, 1 is in the maybe, SSBB, 2 are not online, SMG and MP3, and Wii fit will also probably not be online. So there is a chance that 50% of the games Nintendo is making is going to be online. Is that not enough? No. Ok then, how about all the third part support such as Madden, Fifa, Dragon Quest and more that have not been announced. Your forgetting that most systems online play is not done by games that the company has developed but by third party devs. I don't think Nintendo is moving in a wrong direction, I think they are moving in a different direction. What your doing is nitpicking at Nintendo. Right now, they have to appeal to 2 major audiences in there games, hardcore gamers and casual/non-gamers. What they are trying to do is to find the right balance between the 2 groups in each of there games, and you are nitpicking this fact, that Nintendo is trying to appeal too all of it's customers. Instead of other companies, where they have games aimed at non-gamers and games aimed at gamers, they are trying to balance both. If you aim the game at hardcore consumers, then most casual gamers will be discourged from playing, as they will find the game too challenging. If you make it too easy, the hardcore will start to get upset. It's very hard to try and balance the both, and we will see how they are going to do it in their upcoming games.luigigreen
What it comes down to Luigi is, at heart, that I do not believe that balance can be achieved. I do not believe that the vast majority of games can be balanced for both audiences, without taking away some of the enjoyment either audience would have had. Does that make sense? Some games, perhaps, but not most titles. In that balancing act, I believe something is lost for both audiences.
And yes, I'd like to see a unified online service, this makes it easier on each individual developer and game to implement online, and creates a standard interface. I think that makes it easier, if you support Nintendo's move to "include more gamers" then I believe you should be behind such a service too. After all, with a unified service, new gamers only have to become familiar with one interface, rather than a new one for each game.
The point of Nintendo building an online service is to eliminate third party devs from having to do the infrastructure work, and to make sure there's no excuse for a game that *could* be online to not offer support for it. In any case, I believe my side has been stated enough, this arguement isn't one that's going to be resolved in the short run, and I think it's something we'll be coming back to a few months down the road. What happens with many titles, such as Mario Kart, will provide a good look at exactly what Nintendo's statements mean, and, I like to think, give both sides of the debate something to think about.
[QUOTE="sparkypants"][QUOTE="mwa"]well what i'm concerned about is a spillover effect. if nintendo ends up winning this generation (which at their current pace doesn't seem unrealistic), it might panic MS and Sony into making their systems much more casual friendly as well
sure, both of them will probably keep expanding their online platforms and stick to some of their proven franchises, but they might see the Wii's success and say, "wait a minute, maybe Ninty's right, maybe we need to reorient our businesses to casuals in order to win."
last thing i want to see is the xbox 1080 and PS4 coming out with their own stable of simplistic party games and fitness peripherals at the expense of greater dedication to hardcore titles
luigigreen
Your absolutly right! Nintendo is actually winning the GEN I mean they are really catching up to the 360, This means the 360/PS3 are going to think this is what gamers want,this is where the money is at. I mean even now its starting to happen, I mean the 360 is trying to bring SceneIt into the gaming world. I may be over reacting but the Wii could equal the end of gaming as we know it
OMG! Ending the world of gaming as we know it. That's not blowing it way out of preportion :roll:. I mean, it would be impossible for someone to try and think of a different direction to try and expand the market. I think people are taking this whole "Nintendo trying to innovate" thing way too seriously. This will not be the end of traditional gaming. There will always be a place for truly epic games, not matter what console it is. Nintendo is only trying to offer new and fresh ideas to not only people familar with gaming, but to people who aren't.lol well i can't speak for anyone else but i certainly didn't mean to say that this is the end of gaming as we know it. my point was that this could become the industry trend, and for hardcore gamers, that's a worrying proposition
[QUOTE="sparkypants"][QUOTE="mwa"]well what i'm concerned about is a spillover effect. if nintendo ends up winning this generation (which at their current pace doesn't seem unrealistic), it might panic MS and Sony into making their systems much more casual friendly as well
sure, both of them will probably keep expanding their online platforms and stick to some of their proven franchises, but they might see the Wii's success and say, "wait a minute, maybe Ninty's right, maybe we need to reorient our businesses to casuals in order to win."
last thing i want to see is the xbox 1080 and PS4 coming out with their own stable of simplistic party games and fitness peripherals at the expense of greater dedication to hardcore titles
luigigreen
Your absolutly right! Nintendo is actually winning the GEN I mean they are really catching up to the 360, This means the 360/PS3 are going to think this is what gamers want,this is where the money is at. I mean even now its starting to happen, I mean the 360 is trying to bring SceneIt into the gaming world. I may be over reacting but the Wii could equal the end of gaming as we know it
OMG! Ending the world of gaming as we know it. That's not blowing it way out of preportion :roll:. I mean, it would be impossible for someone to try and think of a different direction to try and expand the market. I think people are taking this whole "Nintendo trying to innovate" thing way too seriously. This will not be the end of traditional gaming. There will always be a place for truly epic games, not matter what console it is. Nintendo is only trying to offer new and fresh ideas to not only people familar with gaming, but to people who aren't.Theres nothing wrong with getting non-gamers involed. Its when you focus all your attention on thisone goal and leave the people who support you behind that upsets me. Sure I was going alittle overboard but the way we play video games is changing thanks to the Wii(and it not all in a good way). Sure there is going to be "traditional" games but you are now going to start and see less and less of these games. I do not agree with change therefore i do not support Nintendo. Of course noobz can play too I dont have a problem with that just dont focuse mostly on them focus on me the true gamer the one whos backs you for 17 years of his life.
[QUOTE="luigigreen"]What I meant to say was that you brought up some good points, but IMO, you are wrong about them. They are very well detailed, but I think that they are wrong. What do expect from Nintendo? Do you expect them to make 30 games, and all of them implement online play? Nintendo is currently working on 6 games for the Wii, as we know of. Wii fit, SSBB, MP3, Mario Kart Wii, SMG, and Charged. Of those 6, 2 are confirmed online, Mario Kart and Charged, 1 is in the maybe, SSBB, 2 are not online, SMG and MP3, and Wii fit will also probably not be online. So there is a chance that 50% of the games Nintendo is making is going to be online. Is that not enough? No. Ok then, how about all the third part support such as Madden, Fifa, Dragon Quest and more that have not been announced. Your forgetting that most systems online play is not done by games that the company has developed but by third party devs. I don't think Nintendo is moving in a wrong direction, I think they are moving in a different direction. What your doing is nitpicking at Nintendo. Right now, they have to appeal to 2 major audiences in there games, hardcore gamers and casual/non-gamers. What they are trying to do is to find the right balance between the 2 groups in each of there games, and you are nitpicking this fact, that Nintendo is trying to appeal too all of it's customers. Instead of other companies, where they have games aimed at non-gamers and games aimed at gamers, they are trying to balance both. If you aim the game at hardcore consumers, then most casual gamers will be discourged from playing, as they will find the game too challenging. If you make it too easy, the hardcore will start to get upset. It's very hard to try and balance the both, and we will see how they are going to do it in their upcoming games.subrosian
What it comes down to Luigi is, at heart, that I do not believe that balance can be achieved. I do not believe that the vast majority of games can be balanced for both audiences, without taking away some of the enjoyment either audience would have had. Does that make sense? Some games, perhaps, but not most titles. In that balancing act, I believe something is lost for both audiences.
And yes, I'd like to see a unified online service, this makes it easier on each individual developer and game to implement online, and creates a standard interface. I think that makes it easier, if you support Nintendo's move to "include more gamers" then I believe you should be behind such a service too. After all, with a unified service, new gamers only have to become familiar with one one interface, rather than a new one for each game.
The point of Nintendo building an online service is to eliminate third party devs from having to do the infrastructure work, and to make sure there's no excuse for a game that *could* be online to not offer support for it. In any case, I believe my side has been stated enough, this arguement isn't one that's going to be resolved in the short run, and I think it's something we'll be coming back to a few months down the road. What happens with many titles, such as Mario Kart, will provide a good look at exactly what Nintendo's statements mean, and, I like to think, give both sides of the debate something to think about. Ok, you think that it can't be achieved and I think that it can be achieved. Let's wait till the actual games come out and then we can decide for ourselves if they made something great or dropped the ball. I do agree that Nintendo needs a unified online service. But, Nintendo as a competitor in online play is still very young. This is the first generation that Nintendo has actually tried to go online with there systems. Now, don't give me the "but it was Xbox's first time, and they created Live." Yes, they created live, but they had major influences from PC online play, which had been around for nearly 6 or 7 years at that time. I think that Nintendo does need to make a unified online service. Hopefully, they will try to create an original one. There have been many people who want Nintendo to copy paste Xbox Live, and I do not want that. I want something fresh and new from the think tank of Nintendo. I do think that Nintendo needs to step it up a little in online play, but you have to give them some sort of break, it's there first time doing something like this. For god sake, they've had to get influences from the DS online system. Friend Codes :|
you may be right wii might cant be able to handle resident evil 5 but do you think x box could hanle metroid mabey graphicaly but no fps on xbox will be able to control as well also i like games like gat and bioshock but to say it has nothing to appeal to gamers who like those games is crazy because if it didn't i wouldn't have a wiiWith the announcement of Wii Fit, I knew this was the final nail in the coffin. The game has no depth, it's like Brain Age. I saw the video and it was quick and short but no depth or lasting value. This is exactly the things that appeal toa casual.
I see nothing in the release list that appeals to a gamer who likes games like Mass Effect, Bioshock or GTA. Even the new Resident Evil 5 reminded me why Nintendo could boast about sales all day long, it can't even handle a game like that. And what's the point of sales when you wont get great games like that? RE: Umbrella Chronicles is a poor substitute
PhoebusFlows
[QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]you may be right wii might cant be able to handle resident evil 5 but do you think x box could hanle metroid mabey graphicaly but no fps on xbox will be able to control as well also i like games like gat and bioshock but to say it has nothing to appeal to gamers who like those games is crazy because if it didn't i wouldn't have a wiiWith the announcement of Wii Fit, I knew this was the final nail in the coffin. The game has no depth, it's like Brain Age. I saw the video and it was quick and short but no depth or lasting value. This is exactly the things that appeal toa casual.
I see nothing in the release list that appeals to a gamer who likes games like Mass Effect, Bioshock or GTA. Even the new Resident Evil 5 reminded me why Nintendo could boast about sales all day long, it can't even handle a game like that. And what's the point of sales when you wont get great games like that? RE: Umbrella Chronicles is a poor substitute
wannweed
Im sorry to say this(for I am the biggest anti lemming)but could handle real well on the 360 both graphicly and gameplay wise...this is just Myopinion, do i really want to see MP3 on the 360...nonot really
i cant beleive this topic managed to last this long, i took a break, watch tv, and you all are still going at it, well just to get in the fray, the statement reggie made of mario kart "novice players can now race against veterans" simply means exactly what he saids you can choose to play against veterans, nintendo is not dumbing it down, shame on you for thinking that. and for nintendo lacking online, i think playing mario kart with 8 racers total, choose to play against veterans, and an online battle mode, it shows promise, if it launches 1 quarter 08 who knows what other online features they added.
nintendo forgeting about the core gamers when they are launching most of the big guns this year, they forgot about us, were long gone, you can all say oh iam done with nintendo, your lost, forget you, games like SSBB,SMG,MP3,MKwii,SMSC,BWii,NMH,etc are going to be top sellers, because the core gamers will eat them and be salivating over them their juicy goodness. you know go ahead leave nintendo, the more people the more chance i have for getting those games on their respective launches
i cant beleive this topic managed to last this long, i took a break, watch tv, and you all are still going at it, well just to get in the fray, the statement reggie made of mario kart "novice players can now race against veterans" simply means exactly what he saids you can choose to play against veterans, nintendo is not dumbing it down, shame on you for thinking that. and for nintendo lacking online, i think playing mario kart with 8 racers total, choose to play against veterans, and an online battle mode, it shows promise, if it launches 1 quarter 08 who knows what other online features they added.
nintendo forgeting about the core gamers when they are launching most of the big guns this year, they forgot about us, were long gone, you can all say oh iam done with nintendo, your lost, forget you, games like SSBB,SMG,MP3,MKwii,SMSC,BWii,NMH,etc are going to be top sellers, because the core gamers will eat them and be salivating over them their juicy goodness. you knowgo ahead leave nintendo, the more people the more chance i have for getting those games on their respective launches
c-joel1121
1)Its a very interseting topic and many people agree with it
2)Just like Battle revolution or mario kart DS(that thing is a joke).
Good-Bye this thread... T_T
I liked how everybody agreed 100% with everybody.
[QUOTE="c-joel1121"]i cant beleive this topic managed to last this long, i took a break, watch tv, and you all are still going at it, well just to get in the fray, the statement reggie made of mario kart "novice players can now race against veterans" simply means exactly what he saids you can choose to play against veterans, nintendo is not dumbing it down, shame on you for thinking that. and for nintendo lacking online, i think playing mario kart with 8 racers total, choose to play against veterans, and an online battle mode, it shows promise, if it launches 1 quarter 08 who knows what other online features they added.
nintendo forgeting about the core gamers when they are launching most of the big guns this year, they forgot about us, were long gone, you can all say oh iam done with nintendo, your lost, forget you, games like SSBB,SMG,MP3,MKwii,SMSC,BWii,NMH,etc are going to be top sellers, because the core gamers will eat them and be salivating over them their juicy goodness. you knowgo ahead leave nintendo, the more people the more chance i have for getting those games on their respective launches
sparkypants
1)Its a very interseting topic and many people agree with it
2)Just like Battle revolution or mario kart DS(that thing is a joke).
this topic is interesting, there is also another topic that contradicts this one but it dosen't seem to be getting much love. People seem to be more attracted to negative topics than positives, its true because once i saw the headline i needed to know. Battle revolution is a piece of crap, i never liked pokemon games, mario kart ds has great online, whats wrong with you its probably because you get pwoned online. don't use MKDS online as a reference for MKwii , handheld, console, one have them has the better online component, do you know who????????:lol:
Ok, you think that it can't be achieved and I think that it can be achieved. Let's wait till the actual games come out and then we can decide for ourselves if they made something great or dropped the ball. I do agree that Nintendo needs a unified online service. But, Nintendo as a competitor in online play is still very young. This is the first generation that Nintendo has actually tried to go online with there systems. Now, don't give me the "but it was Xbox's first time, and they created Live." Yes, they created live, but they had major influences from PC online play, which had been around for nearly 6 or 7 years at that time. I think that Nintendo does need to make a unified online service. Hopefully, they will try to create an original one. There have been many people who want Nintendo to copy paste Xbox Live, and I do not want that. I want something fresh and new from the think tank of Nintendo. I do think that Nintendo needs to step it up a little in online play, but you have to give them some sort of break, it's there first time doing something like this. For god sake, they've had to get influences from the DS online system. Friend Codes :|luigigreen
Actually, Nintendo has primitive online services back in the SNES days in Japan, and the Gamecube deployed online as well. The issue is that Nintendo has not chosen to own up their online lacking a service, and have not stepped in to fill that void. They made it clear during their E3 presentation that they felt they already "had online". In any case, I'm letting this go for now, there's not much more to be said at this point in time.
Good-Bye this thread... T_T
I liked how everybody agreed 100% with everybody.
Panzer_Zwei
I don't think that's the case, but it's time for it to be over for now, this will be my last reply in this thread, it has gone long enough, the points are all laid out. I think it will be something we come back to in 2008, after more time has passed, to see how the sentiments have changed, or if more people are disenfranchised. Where we go from here is up to Nintendo.
It has been interesting to see the opinions on both sides of the debate, and the sheer magnitude of the response indicates this is an issue a lot of gamers are divided about. Thanks to all who posted.
*subrosian out*
[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]Good-Bye this thread... T_T
I liked how everybody agreed 100% with everybody.
Iyethar
Excellent post, I agree 100%
dude if every body agreed 100%, this topic would have been done 50 pages agoIIRC, the only "online" GC game was Phanasty Star Online. Anything else online was really using Warp Pipe to trick the GC into thinking that a connection over the internet was an actual hardline connection to another Gamecube.
Actually, Nintendo has primitive online services back in the SNES days in Japan, and the Gamecube deployed online as well. The issue is that Nintendo has not chosen to own up their online lacking a service, and have not stepped in to fill that void. They made it clear during their E3 presentation that they felt they already "had online". In any case, I'm letting this go for now, there's not much more to be said at this point in time.
subrosian
it is my personal opinion that OP should get some kind of an emblem for sparking such an impassioned debate (over 1000 posts!)...it's not often that we get real discussions going in SW (by which i mean discussions that consist of more than "zomg PSWii60 suxorz, ______ has been downgraded, those screenshots look like crap)
this topic has been uncharacteristic in that it has seen excellent points being made on both sides of the debate, but as others have said, only time will tell where ninty goes from here
[QUOTE="Iyethar"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]Good-Bye this thread... T_T
I liked how everybody agreed 100% with everybody.
c-joel1121
Excellent post, I agree 100%
dude if every body agreed 100%, this topic would have been done 50 pages agoYou might want to get your sarcasm detector looked at there. ;)Well, this topic still had its share of short, flame-bait posts. But it did have more thought out discussion than is normally present here at SW.it is my personal opinion that OP should get some kind of an emblem for sparking such an impassioned debate...it's not often that we get real discussions going in SW (by which i mean discussions that consist of more than "zomg PSWii60 suxorz, ______ has been downgraded, those screenshots look like crap)
this topic has been uncharacteristic in that it has seen excellent points being made on both sides of the debate, but as others have said, only time will tell where ninty goes from here
mwa
[QUOTE="c-joel1121"][QUOTE="Iyethar"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]Good-Bye this thread... T_T
I liked how everybody agreed 100% with everybody.
Brain3000
Excellent post, I agree 100%
dude if every body agreed 100%, this topic would have been done 50 pages agoYou might want to get your sarcasm detector looked at there. ;)low blow, its not sarcasm its a fact
[QUOTE="Brain3000"][QUOTE="c-joel1121"][QUOTE="Iyethar"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]Good-Bye this thread... T_T
I liked how everybody agreed 100% with everybody.
c-joel1121
Excellent post, I agree 100%
dude if every body agreed 100%, this topic would have been done 50 pages agoYou might want to get your sarcasm detector looked at there. ;)low blow, its not sarcasm its a factOh, I took your post as meaning that you though Panzer's post was serious. :P
silly you
While I do agree with a lot of your points Subrosian I don't have the willpower to let Nintendo go just yet. I don't mean that I'll be buying a Wii anytime soon or at all. What I mean is that I'll be waiting for Nintendo's new system with bated breath and all the hope in the world. Will I be let down? Possible but I'm a sucker for punishment when it comes to Nintendo.IbacaiOff-topic: I don't know if its just me, but the footage of Killzone 2 in your sig really reminds me of if Monolith were to do a new FEAR with an entirely updated engine.
i can see through subrosians icon thats he is still online, maybe its a glitch or he is watching us like an eagle on a snake.
i will say this if you say bye to nintendo keep in mind that you are saying bye to SSBB, MP3, MKWii, SMSC, BWii, NMH, SMG, ZWQBT,UC
hell even wii fit, the lesser known titles like PH,DDOC, Sadness, with a full days worth of news can change our perception of them, i know i missed some ,and future wii titles that haven't been announced yet. There are so many developers for the wii that are anxiously ready to showcased their games to us. If only you really knew what you are saying bye to...... if only.............................
.....................you knew...............................................................................................................................................
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