Good-Bye Nintendo

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jaminnbn

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#301 jaminnbn
Member since 2006 • 299 Posts
[QUOTE="XenoNinja"][QUOTE="Rudy25"]

NINTENDO OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

Rudy25

thats great and yet so true, you see without Nintendo's Wii-fit, hardcore gamers will become hunch back halo playing unhealthy slobs.

wow

lol gaming KILLS!!!!... hows that for a twist that would make even Bill O'Riely proud...

anyway hardcore gamers can have their dark rooms, large screens, uber powered consoles, and sedentary lifestyles "simulating reality".... i'd take real reality anyday... for gods sake just go outside and do something!!! so nintendo doesn't have to "casualize"...

and if you want to look at it that way i think every company has casualized sony, microsoft, and nintendo

sony's "home"...

microsoft's "media console" seriously... scene it? wth?

and nintendo's ... well you've read it....

it's a new market appealing to the "new american"... hardcore gamers are a dying breed

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jaminnbn

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#302 jaminnbn
Member since 2006 • 299 Posts

Wow, you guys need lives.hyruledweller

agreed...

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Michael85

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#303 Michael85
Member since 2005 • 3971 Posts

Why is this thread still alive?!

Eponique

Because Nintendo's philosophy and their press conference flew completely over the hardcores heads. They can't see the forest for the trees.

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Bread_or_Decide

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#304 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts
[QUOTE="Rudy25"][QUOTE="XenoNinja"][QUOTE="Rudy25"]

NINTENDO OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

jaminnbn

thats great and yet so true, you see without Nintendo's Wii-fit, hardcore gamers will become hunch back halo playing unhealthy slobs.

wow

lol gaming KILLS!!!!... hows that for a twist that would make even Bill O'Riely proud...

anyway hardcore gamers can have their dark rooms, large screens, uber powered consoles, and sedentary lifestyles "simulating reality".... i'd take real reality anyday... for gods sake just go outside and do something!!! so nintendo doesn't have to "casualize"...

and if you want to look at it that way i think every company has casualized sony, microsoft, and nintendo

sony's "home"...

microsoft's "media console" seriously... scene it? wth?

and nintendo's ... well you've read it....

it's a new market appealing to the "new american"... hardcore gamers are a dying breed

This myth was dispelled a long time ago when. Alot of gamers are adults and they have jobs and families.

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Eponique

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#305 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
[QUOTE="Eponique"]

Why is this thread still alive?!

Michael85

Because Nintendo's philosophy and their press conference flew completely over the hardcores heads. They can't see the forest for the trees.

It was a press confrence, not a show.

And heh, if you're going to say Bye bye Nintendo! Over a press confrence (which is meant to be bragging about sales and stocks) then I'm not gonna stop you. But for this thread to go to nearly400 posts. I agree with the person who said "You guys need lives" ^.^

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Eponique

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#306 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
[QUOTE="jaminnbn"][QUOTE="Rudy25"][QUOTE="XenoNinja"][QUOTE="Rudy25"]

NINTENDO OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

Bread_or_Decide

thats great and yet so true, you see without Nintendo's Wii-fit, hardcore gamers will become hunch back halo playing unhealthy slobs.

wow

lol gaming KILLS!!!!... hows that for a twist that would make even Bill O'Riely proud...

anyway hardcore gamers can have their dark rooms, large screens, uber powered consoles, and sedentary lifestyles "simulating reality".... i'd take real reality anyday... for gods sake just go outside and do something!!! so nintendo doesn't have to "casualize"...

and if you want to look at it that way i think every company has casualized sony, microsoft, and nintendo

sony's "home"...

microsoft's "media console" seriously... scene it? wth?

and nintendo's ... well you've read it....

it's a new market appealing to the "new american"... hardcore gamers are a dying breed

This myth was dispelled a long time ago when. Alot of gamers are adults and they have jobs and families.

Why wasn't I included in this very special census?

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Teuf_

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#307 Teuf_
Member since 2004 • 30805 Posts
I posted a lengthy response in the GUFU thread, so here I'll just say that you make some great points and I agree for the most part. Nintendo is still making the games that will please the Nintendo fanbase, but its quite clear they've given up on regaining the market base they lost back in the N64 era. It would also seem to me that theyr'e putting the Nintendo fans at a lower priority in favor of Wii-Fit, but its up to them to decide thats good enough. Personally I was a big Nintendo fan last generation, but the Wii has never been a console I felt I could support. With this last E3 conference, I've received confirmation that Nintendo isn't going to try to get me back.

Nintendo, I say farewell to you.
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redCloudJ7

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#308 redCloudJ7
Member since 2007 • 1004 Posts
[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="XenoNinja"]

they are but that dont mean you can't have fun playing them, since when do games have to be complex, artistic and nice looking to enjoy them?...most games I've played like that are usually finished within 30 minutes because they spent to much time making the game look pretty Lmao!!

XenoNinja



You completed Psychonauts, Eternal Darkness, Okami, Ikaruga, Metroid Prime, Half-Life 2, Resident Evil 4, and Final Fantasy X, all in thirty minutes or less? What are you, the Rachael Ray of gaming? No, seriously, I'd love to see a link to some videos of your speedruns...

yes I did complete all those games within 30 mins.

BS.Prove it. Link your speed runs.

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tomarlyn

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#309 tomarlyn
Member since 2005 • 20148 Posts
[QUOTE="Michael85"][QUOTE="Eponique"]

Why is this thread still alive?!

Eponique

Because Nintendo's philosophy and their press conference flew completely over the hardcores heads. They can't see the forest for the trees.

It was a press confrence, not a show.

And heh, if you're going to say Bye bye Nintendo! Over a press confrence (which is meant to be bragging about sales and stocks) then I'm not gonna stop you. But for this thread to go to nearly400 posts. I agree with the person who said "You guys need lives" ^.^

Of course its a show, its the biggest event of the gaming calendar, the time of maximum exposure. Save the sales and stats for the financial publications not the gaming media.

And to the person who says ''you guys need lives'', its a video game forum, what are we supposed to talk about? Saving the whales?

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hyruledweller

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#310 hyruledweller
Member since 2006 • 3168 Posts
[QUOTE="Michael85"][QUOTE="Eponique"]

Why is this thread still alive?!

Eponique

Because Nintendo's philosophy and their press conference flew completely over the hardcores heads. They can't see the forest for the trees.

It was a press confrence, not a show.

And heh, if you're going to say Bye bye Nintendo! Over a press confrence (which is meant to be bragging about sales and stocks) then I'm not gonna stop you. But for this thread to go to nearly400 posts. I agree with the person who said "You guys need lives" ^.^

I aim to please ;)

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jaminnbn

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#311 jaminnbn
Member since 2006 • 299 Posts
[QUOTE="jaminnbn"][QUOTE="Rudy25"][QUOTE="XenoNinja"][QUOTE="Rudy25"]

NINTENDO OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

Bread_or_Decide

thats great and yet so true, you see without Nintendo's Wii-fit, hardcore gamers will become hunch back halo playing unhealthy slobs.

wow

lol gaming KILLS!!!!... hows that for a twist that would make even Bill O'Riely proud...

anyway hardcore gamers can have their dark rooms, large screens, uber powered consoles, and sedentary lifestyles "simulating reality".... i'd take real reality anyday... for gods sake just go outside and do something!!! so nintendo doesn't have to "casualize"...

and if you want to look at it that way i think every company has casualized sony, microsoft, and nintendo

sony's "home"...

microsoft's "media console" seriously... scene it? wth?

and nintendo's ... well you've read it....

it's a new market appealing to the "new american"... hardcore gamers are a dying breed

This myth was dispelled a long time ago when. Alot of gamers are adults and they have jobs and families.

.... a job and a family doesn't mean that your not lazy... the stress of a family... both mentally and physically... there's a reason why america is the fattest country in the world... and i don't think gamers are disproving that

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Zaistev_basic

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#312 Zaistev_basic
Member since 2002 • 2975 Posts
What LEMMINGS and some cows just don't understand is that the hardcore gamers is more divided than the concrete casuals. Just because all of you are hardcores does not mean that you have the same taste as to the other hardcore. Casuals are more similar in taste compare to hardcore as proven by the sales of the Wii, X360, and PS3. So who ever made this thread has assumed that he is talking for the hardcore gamers but in actuality he is talking for the lemmings yet less of the cows. Let me repeat, he is not talking for allthe hardcores but rather to some who are likely lemmings and maybe, just maybe, cows.
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kiwisama

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#313 kiwisama
Member since 2006 • 563 Posts

the first wall of text i read in sw, and i have to say you are 100% right.

at first i thought that wii is a gimmick console, but still fun, and THEN i saw they created something as stupid as wii fitness! i mean wtf!?

wii fitness is SO useless!!!! if a fat guy that wants to do fitness will even step on that pad it will brake!

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Captain_Waffles

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#314 Captain_Waffles
Member since 2005 • 314 Posts
TC, this is most intelligent post I've ever seen on SW, and I completely agree.
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#315 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="jaminnbn"][QUOTE="Rudy25"][QUOTE="XenoNinja"][QUOTE="Rudy25"]

NINTENDO OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

jaminnbn

thats great and yet so true, you see without Nintendo's Wii-fit, hardcore gamers will become hunch back halo playing unhealthy slobs.

wow

lol gaming KILLS!!!!... hows that for a twist that would make even Bill O'Riely proud...

anyway hardcore gamers can have their dark rooms, large screens, uber powered consoles, and sedentary lifestyles "simulating reality".... i'd take real reality anyday... for gods sake just go outside and do something!!! so nintendo doesn't have to "casualize"...

and if you want to look at it that way i think every company has casualized sony, microsoft, and nintendo

sony's "home"...

microsoft's "media console" seriously... scene it? wth?

and nintendo's ... well you've read it....

it's a new market appealing to the "new american"... hardcore gamers are a dying breed

This myth was dispelled a long time ago when. Alot of gamers are adults and they have jobs and families.

.... a job and a family doesn't mean that your not lazy... the stress of a family... both mentally and physically... there's a reason why america is the fattest country in the world... and i don't think gamers are disproving that

I spent 5 months last year losing well over 30 pounds. I worked my butt off and I've kept it off long after my wedding. I'm happy about the way I look and I earned it.

I don't need a video game to improve my life. I need it to entertain me when I am bored.

And I do go out and do other things.

Sorry if I don't feel sorry for the fat people. Trust me the wii is not going to make America skinny.

Wait...was that the Innovation Nintendo promised? Cause it sure as heck aint in the games I'll tell ya that.

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Eponique

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#316 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
[QUOTE="Eponique"][QUOTE="Michael85"][QUOTE="Eponique"]

Why is this thread still alive?!

tomarlyn

Because Nintendo's philosophy and their press conference flew completely over the hardcores heads. They can't see the forest for the trees.

It was a press confrence, not a show.

And heh, if you're going to say Bye bye Nintendo! Over a press confrence (which is meant to be bragging about sales and stocks) then I'm not gonna stop you. But for this thread to go to nearly400 posts. I agree with the person who said "You guys need lives" ^.^

Of course its a show, its the biggest event of gaming calendar, the time of maximum exposure. SAve the sales and stats for the financial publications not the gaming media.

And to the person who says ''you guys need lives'', its a video game forum, what are we supposed to do talk about? Saving the whales?

E3 has shrunk. It was a game show last year, it's a press confrence now.

And this thread should've only lasted 150 post, it's some guy's opinion instead you get like 300 posts of "I agree" which add nothing whatsoever. And 100 of 3,842 paragraphed posts...

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redCloudJ7

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#317 redCloudJ7
Member since 2007 • 1004 Posts

Xenoninja your lying. You did not beat those games within a half an hour.

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Rage010101

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#318 Rage010101
Member since 2006 • 5470 Posts
I agree 100%... i too had hope for nintendo to clean up their image. yes, they're making money and it seems thats all they care about. they have alienated us (veterans/hardcore/true gamers) and are now catering to only casuals. Like I said in a few post now, after their conference they convinced me that wii would be the first nintendo console i wouldnt be purchasing. I decided to drop them all together. the future for our crowd (the hardcore) is 360 and ps3. both cows and lemmings have to agree...they're both bringing what we really want! they have not given up on us and i honestly cant see them doing what nintendo has done! shame on you nintendo. you have let us down...we who made you what you are over 20 years ago! only to push us aside and embrace those who wouldnt have taken a 2nd glance at you and thought gaming was a waste of time and money! nintendo...you have disgraced us, the true gamers who grew up with you so long ago! :cry:
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jaminnbn

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#319 jaminnbn
Member since 2006 • 299 Posts
[QUOTE="jaminnbn"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="jaminnbn"][QUOTE="Rudy25"][QUOTE="XenoNinja"][QUOTE="Rudy25"]

NINTENDO OR DIE!!!!!!!!!

Bread_or_Decide

thats great and yet so true, you see without Nintendo's Wii-fit, hardcore gamers will become hunch back halo playing unhealthy slobs.

wow

lol gaming KILLS!!!!... hows that for a twist that would make even Bill O'Riely proud...

anyway hardcore gamers can have their dark rooms, large screens, uber powered consoles, and sedentary lifestyles "simulating reality".... i'd take real reality anyday... for gods sake just go outside and do something!!! so nintendo doesn't have to "casualize"...

and if you want to look at it that way i think every company has casualized sony, microsoft, and nintendo

sony's "home"...

microsoft's "media console" seriously... scene it? wth?

and nintendo's ... well you've read it....

it's a new market appealing to the "new american"... hardcore gamers are a dying breed

This myth was dispelled a long time ago when. Alot of gamers are adults and they have jobs and families.

.... a job and a family doesn't mean that your not lazy... the stress of a family... both mentally and physically... there's a reason why america is the fattest country in the world... and i don't think gamers are disproving that

I spent 5 months last year losing well over 30 pounds. I worked my butt off and I've kept it off long after my wedding. I'm happy about the way I look and I earned it.

I don't need a video game to improve my life. I need it to entertain me when I am bored.

And I do go out and do other things.

Sorry if I don't feel sorry for the fat people. Trust me the wii is not going to make America skinny.

Wait...was that the Innovation Nintendo promised? Cause it sure as heck aint in the games I'll tell ya that.

i totally agree with you... and i know how hard it is to stay in shape... cross counrty is not a forgiving sport after the winter... and you don't need a videogame to improve your life... i, like most of the people here, would consider myself a "hardcore" gamer... but these companies are now trying to get on the "lets get in shape" market that is growing from the american sloth...fat people should know their not making good choices... i lost all hope in nintendo awahile ago... and for that all console gaming... pc seems to be the only "hardcore" market left simply because of it's elitest methods of price exclusion...

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SecretPolice

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#320 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45558 Posts

[QUOTE="hyruledweller"]Wow, you guys need lives.subrosian


And you're here for the cake? You're on a gaming forum - "those who live in glass houses...."

I don't see how people discussing something they love / enjoy is "lifeless" - in fact, I'd be concerned if gamers mindlessly bought games, and never debated *why* they like certain games, or whether or not they feel certain companies are doing the right thing. Just going to the store and purchasing, without ever thinking would make us lifeless zombies.

WOW, Subrosian...... You have the patience of a saint - no kidding !

I respect that immencely and please if you can, keep the chin up b/c you are pulling the wool from the sheeps eyes in spite of the nonsence spewed you're way !

Way to go my friend - even if you never get the praise there is the One Hand Clapping !

Game On !!!!

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super_mario_128

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#321 super_mario_128
Member since 2006 • 23884 Posts
[QUOTE="super_mario_128"][QUOTE="Eponique"][QUOTE="super_mario_128"][QUOTE="Eponique"]

Why is this thread still alive?!

Tsug_Ze_Wind

Because the OP was one of the greatest ever and the TC produced a valid arguement you can't seem to rebuttle.

He didn't even reply to my posts :| I gave up ages ago...

When I said 'you' I meant the sheep fanboy in general, not just you ;)

The problem with that is, there isn't much of an argument. Mostly, the OP is a rant about Nintendo's E3.

Okay, the "Nintendo is hurting gaming." This argument has been done to death, and I don't thinksubrosian added anything new to it. I don't even think he completely agrees with it. Like I said before, I think a lot of his post was just out of anger as a reaction to the conference.

Waitaminute...since whenwere you...and...oh I'm so confused.

Since when was I an anti-wii person? Since I realised that there were very few games coming soon I consider 'hardcore' or 'fun'

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Hoffgod

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#322 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts

I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't agree. I'll admit to being concerned after the Press Conference. It was underwhelming. Not bad like the MS keynote, but still, underwhelming. I was concerned about Nintendo ignoring hardcore gamers.

And then the other shoe dropped.

After the keynote, after the concern had set in, other news started coming in. Previews for Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 which were emphatic as to just how great the games are. A release date (finally) for Fire Emblem Wii. The news of Advance Wars DS 2 being made, the news of Professor Layton coming to the US, and the rumors of Golden Sun DS. It's made it pretty clear to me Nintendo has not forsaken the hardcore gamer. And honestly, after hearing all that, their conference made a lot more sense.

The context of the press conference was that it was the center stage of E3 for them. It was where all the focus was centered. You had hardcore gamers and the mainstream media, all centered on one site. But the difference between the two groups is the mainstream media judges things based only on the keynotes, the hardcore will pay attention to the floor show that follows. Thus, Nintendo focused on the more casual, accessible things during the keynote. The type of things that would get the folks on CNN talking, as opposed to the type of things that would get people here talking. It makes sense. Personally, I think they went too far with it (we hardcore watched the whole thing, so throw us a bone at least), but it does make sense.

As for Nintendo's vision, I'm not thrilled with it, but I'm not opposed. Perhaps it's just my background in economics, but I see this as a necessary market realignment. Look at last generation. The focus was entirely on the hardcore console gamers. It resulted in an embarassment of riches for those gamers, but it hurt a bunch of companies. The hardcore market just wasn't big enough. That's why you see stuff like Atari, Ubisoft, and Majesco end up deeply in debt after focusing on the hardcore, and even an industry giant, Acclaim, ended up closing its doors for good. That market was tapped. Nintendo was smart enough to see it, and they got there first with Wii and DS. Now, we see the rest of the industry following form. EA recently established a new studio, EA Casual, to work on casual games for consoles, handhelds, and their PoGo.com website. In fact, the entire EA keynote was casual-oriented. You also see Ubisoft making a big push with new casual games like My Word Coach and My Life Coach. You even see the others of the big 3 making steps in that direction. For example, look at Sony finally bringing the SingStar franchise to the US or what they're trying to do with PlayStation Home. And MS is making even greater efforts, between XBLA and the two games they just unveiled at E3, Viva Pinata Party Animals and Scene It!

I'm not trying to dispute you or say you're wrong, Subrosian. You gotta do what you gotta do. But I just think you're being too hasty. You see the future as dull and bleak, I see it as bright and potentially getting brighter. Just a difference in perspective, I guess.

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D00nut

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#323 D00nut
Member since 2003 • 7618 Posts

It's true in many ways about Nintendo. I don't know what they were thinking when they announced Wii Fitness. To me, that's software that probably should have just been announced later.

I'm waiting for the nexr Tokyo Game Show though. Hopefully Nintendo will come back with something better.

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joeychew

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#324 joeychew
Member since 2003 • 4580 Posts

A+ for your essay..and yes i agreed with u. Not to mention nintendo just announce the wii fit....

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Blue-Sphere

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#325 Blue-Sphere
Member since 2006 • 1972 Posts

It's true in many ways about Nintendo. I don't know what they were thinking when they announced Wii Fitness. To me, that's software that probably should have just been announced later.

I'm waiting for the nexr Tokyo Game Show though. Hopefully Nintendo will come back with something better.

D00nut
When is TGS going to happen?
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Tsug_Ze_Wind

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#326 Tsug_Ze_Wind
Member since 2006 • 9511 Posts

Since when was I an anti-wii person? Since I realised that there were very few games coming soon I consider 'hardcore' or 'fun'super_mario_128

:( I hope it wasn't because of E3.

You made me change my sig.

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Eponique

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#327 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts

A+ for your essay..and yes i agreed with u. Not to mention nintendo just announce the wii fit....

joeychew

Microsoft just announced Viva Pinata as well.

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D00nut

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#328 D00nut
Member since 2003 • 7618 Posts
[QUOTE="D00nut"]

It's true in many ways about Nintendo. I don't know what they were thinking when they announced Wii Fitness. To me, that's software that probably should have just been announced later.

I'm waiting for the nexr Tokyo Game Show though. Hopefully Nintendo will come back with something better.

Blue-Sphere
When is TGS going to happen?

I think it's in Winter or later Fall. I can't quite remember.
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#329 thinicer
Member since 2006 • 3704 Posts

I have heard these tired arguments again and again about how all these mini-games and "games that aren't really games" are going to sell the most on the Wii and drive the industry to make those games in abundance, including for the PS3 and Xbox 360. If there is an oversaturation of these kinds of games then many of them are not going to sell well thanks to redundancy.

And I still don't understand why people are so afraid of the Wii causing a spill-over effect that will bring lots of mini-games to the PS3 and Xbox 360. Why would publishers do that if the types of gamers who would play such titles exist in small numbers in the userbases of those systems? It doesn't make any sense. There are enough hardcore, mature games in the pipelines of both systems to last for years. You guys are safe.

And another factor everybody has to consider: Does anybody seriously believe that non-gamers and casual gamers are going to buy dozens of Nintendo Wii titles? By their very nature, people who are not hardcore gamers don't buy lots of games, let alone games that are composed entirely of mini-games. They will probably buy a handful of these games and that's it and they certainly won't add to their collections games that are similar to each other. As such, the Wii won't see the same kind of attach ratio that the Xbox 360 enjoys. If you are a hardcore gamer you will buy more games. It has always been that way.

Non-gamers (not so non, I know) who buy the Wii will be happy with a couple of titles that they will play again and again with friends and family. Wii Sports & Wii Play are such titles, and it looks like Wii Fit will be another. They are not going to buy a lot of titles during the lifespan of the console. But why has Wii Play sold so well? Is it strictly because of all the mini-games, or is it because you get a free Wiimote with it? Maybe it's a little of both.

Casual gamers will also probably buy games like those I mentioned above, but they will also be far more likely to buy games considered as MUST HAVES: Metroid Prime 3, Zelda, Mario Galaxy, Resident Evil 4 and any sequels of big franchises that come along.

And never forget, variety is also the spice of life and there will be a lot of games available for Wii that will cater more to a hardcore crowd and offer more engaging gameplay that just simply swinging your arms around. What we have seen so far is just the beginning.

Metroid Prime 3 is most definitely a game that caters to hardcores & casuals, and it is going to sell a lot of copies. So will Mario Galaxy. I expect that the future will remain unchanged - there will always be hardcore games available across the board to satisfy that niche in the market.

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jujutheking

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#330 jujutheking
Member since 2006 • 2998 Posts
I think ninty is using gms has like another divsion.Juast like Sony has tvs and movies and MS has cpus.Remember ninty is only a gamering company, but it's like they have other divsion.wiiifit,nintendogs,wiisports are ll for the familyl.Theyu are trying to make gms for everyone, but they do forget about the hardcore gamers too.They didn't update there console that much which will lead to basically the same gms.For example, go look at MP3 AI they freaking Halo 2 ai where they just jump from side to side(Watch the press confernce and MP3.It looks like thrash.
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tomarlyn

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#331 tomarlyn
Member since 2005 • 20148 Posts

E3 has shrunk. It was a game show last year, it's a press confrence now.

And this thread should've only lasted 150 post, it's some guy's opinion instead you get like 300 posts of "I agree" which add nothing whatsoever. And 100 of 3,842 paragraphed posts...

Eponique

If you ask me its a great post thats deserves the credit and needs to be read.

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XenoNinja

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#332 XenoNinja
Member since 2003 • 5382 Posts
[QUOTE="XenoNinja"][QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="XenoNinja"]

they are but that dont mean you can't have fun playing them, since when do games have to be complex, artistic and nice looking to enjoy them?...most games I've played like that are usually finished within 30 minutes because they spent to much time making the game look pretty Lmao!!

redCloudJ7



You completed Psychonauts, Eternal Darkness, Okami, Ikaruga, Metroid Prime, Half-Life 2, Resident Evil 4, and Final Fantasy X, all in thirty minutes or less? What are you, the Rachael Ray of gaming? No, seriously, I'd love to see a link to some videos of your speedruns...

yes I did complete all those games within 30 mins.

BS.Prove it. Link your speed runs.

okay, maybe I exaggerated a little...but most games these days are finished within a couple of hours because of what I said earlier, developers spend more time making the game look good rather than making it lengthy.

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deactivated-5e836a855beb2

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#333 deactivated-5e836a855beb2
Member since 2005 • 95573 Posts

[QUOTE="super_mario_128"]Since when was I an anti-wii person? Since I realised that there were very few games coming soon I consider 'hardcore' or 'fun'Tsug_Ze_Wind

:( I hope it wasn't because of E3.

You made me change my sig.

He has been getting more anti-Wii for a few months.
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Dr_Neptune

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#334 Dr_Neptune
Member since 2007 • 510 Posts

good post, i agree with a lot of it. i thought much the same while i watched the ninetndo conference. hearing reggie talking about all the different ages and sexes of gamers they are reaching made me think why any of the hardcore gamers on here put up with it.

nintendo have realised that they can make a lot more money by marketing the wii to 'non gamers' than staying loyal to hardcore gamers and making meaningful, deep titles.

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Eponique

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#335 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
[QUOTE="Eponique"]

E3 has shrunk. It was a game show last year, it's a press confrence now.

And this thread should've only lasted 150 post, it's some guy's opinion instead you get like 300 posts of "I agree" which add nothing whatsoever. And 100 of 3,842 paragraphed posts...

tomarlyn

If you ask me its a great post thats deserves the credit and needs to be read.

People need to stop saying "I agree", it's flooding the place...

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subrosian

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#336 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts
I posted a lengthy response in the GUFU thread, so here I'll just say that you make some great points and I agree for the most part. Nintendo is still making the games that will please the Nintendo fanbase, but its quite clear they've given up on regaining the market base they lost back in the N64 era. It would also seem to me that theyr'e putting the Nintendo fans at a lower priority in favor of Wii-Fit, but its up to them to decide thats good enough. Personally I was a big Nintendo fan last generation, but the Wii has never been a console I felt I could support. With this last E3 conference, I've received confirmation that Nintendo isn't going to try to get me back.

Nintendo, I say farewell to you.
Teufelhuhn


They will be missed, eh Teuf? They gave us some good times...

And anyone hating on this - you *do not* understand how long I've been with Nintendo, or how much support (financially and otherwise) I've given them over the years. This is the second year in a row they've said a big "**** you" to hardcore gamers, it is getting old.

.... a job and a family doesn't mean that your not lazy... the stress of a family... both mentally and physically... there's a reason why america is the fattest country in the world... and i don't think gamers are disproving that

jaminnbn


First of all, Pacific Island countries make up some of the fatest countries in the world, due partially to a reliance on imported foods, and partially to genetics. Last time I checked, the US was at #9. Secondly, the obsiety crisis has everything to do with fast food - a massive intake of transfat, saturated fat, and sugar is not good *for anyone*. I'm 5'10" and 140lbs. Being a hardcore gamer has nothing to do with my weight - when I want excerise I do *crazy* things like mountain biking and going to the gym *shrug*... I know, I know, I'm a madman.

I'm not fat because I don't eat fast food or drink soda.

In fact, if you want to go in this direction, I highly suggest you actually *watch* yesterday's conference. Reggie certainly proves your point about non-gamers being "healthier", eh? Of course Miyamoto's "good excuse" was absolutely priceless (actually - it is true, BMI is a poor indicator of overall health, and a body builder or athlete would have a high BMI despite being healthy, hence why having the Wii Fitness pad test bodyfat would have made more sense... however Reggie is egg shaped, so, anyway...)




E3 has shrunk. It was a game show last year, it's a press confrence now.

And this thread should've only lasted 150 post, it's some guy's opinion instead you get like 300 posts of "I agree" which add nothing whatsoever. And 100 of 3,842 paragraphed posts...

Eponique


No offense Eponique, but I think you're afraid that what's being said here is true. I've been getting PMs from the most diehard Nintendo fans here who agree, at least in part, and want to refute specific points. The bottom line is, what I've said expresses a general feeling shared by many people on this forum.

Even if a lot of people here might disagree on one specific point or another, the sense that Nintendo really no longer cares about hardcore gamers (though they'd be more than happy for us to give them our money) is quite clear. I see posts that are essentially "No! It's not true! This isn't real! This can't be happening! You're wrong!" - I however, do not see any evidence.

Nintendo has, on more than one occasion in the past two years, made it crystal clear that their core gamer is no longer their concern. Telling us these are "gamers for everyone" is simply marketing - I apologize for not buying the bull**** - if you want to drink Nintendo's kool-aid that's your choice.
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SambaLele

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#337 SambaLele
Member since 2004 • 5552 Posts

I agree 100% with you TC.

Nintendo is not the type of company that attends to the consumer needs... they just want to create our needs, and tell us what/how to play. that's why i'll stick to other systems...

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#338 thinicer
Member since 2006 • 3704 Posts

good post, i agree with a lot of it. i thought much the same while i watched the ninetndo conference. hearing reggie talking about all the different ages and sexes of gamers they are reaching made me think why any of the hardcore gamers on here put up with it.

nintendo have realised that they can make a lot more money by marketing the wii to 'non gamers' than staying loyal to hardcore gamers and making meaningful, deep titles.

Dr_Neptune

If hardcores feel that way, then they should just purchase a PS3 or Xbox 360. Not a Wii. Nintendo is not twisting anybody's arm to get it. If you feel you have to play Metroid Prime 3, if you have to play Mario Galaxy, if you HAVE to play Super Smash Bros. Brawl, then wow....it sounds like Nintendo has made a compelling case for you to purchase the system, certainly no different than having to play Halo 3, Mass Effect, Gears of War, MGS4, FFXIII, etc.

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subrosian

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#339 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts
[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="Eponique"]

E3 has shrunk. It was a game show last year, it's a press confrence now.

And this thread should've only lasted 150 post, it's some guy's opinion instead you get like 300 posts of "I agree" which add nothing whatsoever. And 100 of 3,842 paragraphed posts...

Eponique

If you ask me its a great post thats deserves the credit and needs to be read.

People need to stop saying "I agree", it's flooding the place...



Are you frightened by the number of people who agree with the spirit of what has been said? The reality here is laid out on the table, Nintendo is laid bare, and what they are doing is offensive to many gamers.

We're not going away Eponique, and we don't buy Nintendo's marketing claims that these "games for everyone" are the same game we would have gotten if they'd targeted us.

I'm sorry Eponique, the Nintendo we know and love is dead.
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redCloudJ7

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#340 redCloudJ7
Member since 2007 • 1004 Posts

okay, maybe I exaggerated a little...but most games these days are finished within a couple of hours because of what I said

earlier, developers spend more time making the game look good rather than making it lengthy.XenoNinja

Exaggerated. :lol: What you said was a blatant lie.

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Cuby_Finest

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#341 Cuby_Finest
Member since 2005 • 1129 Posts

I have been saying this for some time, and it has been misinterpreted over and over again. I've been called an elitist, biased, a hater, whatever....

Nintendo is hurting gaming.

Frankly, what Nintendo is doing right now is appealing to a market that's not us - the longtime gamer - but a market that is *them* - people who don't like videogames - people who play things like DDR, Guitar Hero, and Jane Fonda workout tapes. They shoved us aside with the Wii - in fact, look at Reggies' comments for the past two years - they *are no longer interested* in catering to us.

At their press conference, Nintendo kept telling us "you're wrong". Over and over, in fact. They told us what to think. They told us "oh, you're wrong, this is gaming for everyone" - they essentially acted like "hehehe you're stupid, you don't get it." The reality is, they know this isn't gaming for us, they know we don't enjoy these games - but they figure, "hey, if we can tell some Nintendo diehards that we're making gaming *better*, maybe we can drag them along".

Everything they're doing right now is about catering to sales from a lucrative market - a market we've been calling "casuals" - but in retrospect we should have kept calling "non-gamers". Casuals *used to be* a market that pumped their chests for Madden and Halo - what we have here is a new beast entirely.


-

-

-

For a minute, just concede that Nintendo doesn't care. Why are they harming gaming? Because they control so many nostalgic series. I had to give this up *a long time ago*. As an early Sega fan, I had to accept that my favorite games - such as Sonic the Hedgehog - were no longer the same. I had to come to terms with the parent company Sega losing their minds - Sonic 3D Blast helped a great deal to drive that reality home, and by the time I played Sonic Shuffle and Sonic Adventure 2, it became easier to accept that Sega was going downhill.

Nintendo isn't dying, they were though, they were dying, losing marketshare, and they found this huge new market with the Wii... and unfortunately, much like Sega, they hold our old favorites hostage. So what do we get? Our best games come with concessions - Metroid Prime 3 will be built around "the zapper", goes back to stacked beams, and features basically a "turbo charged" mode -why? All in the interest of making the bastion of Nintendo's "hardcore" catalog still sell to some of the same people who will buy Wii Fitness.

They are trying to blend the ****c franchises into the Wii Sports / Play / Fitness market

Twilight Princess was one of the easiest Zelda games I've ever played, Super Paper Mario was time-consuming, but not exactly *challenging*, and Super Smash Brawl might not feature online gameplay.

-
-
_

And that was, by far, one of the worst parts of the show - "made you didn't notice that we already have online gameplay?" ... maybe Nintendo didn't notice that PC, Xbox 360, and PS3 have services that are lightyears ahead of what I do on a DS or Wii? I don't feel like I have "the world" in the palm of my hand when I play Mario Kart online on my DS - I feel like I might as well be playing against the AI - I can't identify if I'm really playing the same people again, there's no ranking, I can't talk to my opponents, I can't see my opponents - where is the online social interaction?

-
-

I feel that Nintendo has realized that online doesn't matter to increase DS / Wii sales, so they're not doing it - that simply they said "building a service like PSN costs too much money, and look at the people buying a Wii, they don't care." I do care, however, it's important for me. I have friends and family all over the world - being able to see their face and hear their voice while I play is vital - it makes it so I'm playing a racing game with my little brother, even though he's in another city - it makes it so I can talk to the other gamers in my Halo clan, even though they're in Denmark. Nintendo's issue isn't that they "don't get it" - it's that their current salesbase says "I can go to YouTube and MySpace on my Wii - Wii does it all!"

-
Nintendo is in a situation where, quite frankly, we, the longtime gamers, are supporting them out of nostalgia. If the actual *games* Nintendo is releasing - Metroid, Mario, Smash, et cetera - were the same games, but with new characters and titles, would we be buying them. Honestly, look in your heart and tell me you'd buy MP3 without the "M". This doesn't just apply to Nintendo - Halo 3 *looks awful* by comparisson to other FPS titles coming out this year - it hasn't *evolved* enough - the FPS genre moves and improve so quickly - yet Halo 3 looks archaic. Yet MP3 looks *even more* archaic, and we support it, why? Because it's Metroid. I'm as guilty as the next guy of doing this.

I'm sorry, this all might not be the level of logic or cohesiveness I usually have - I have no intention of becoming a fanboy or a hater or anything else, but I'm done with Nintendo - I am washing my hands of them. For me it's about more than the games, it's also about the vision behind those games, about what you're trying to do with them. Yesterday's showcase was a disgusting display of chest-pounding arrogance and a clear showing that Nintendo does not view games as art.

"Games are for everyone" doesn't mean you should stop making games for me. I always thought, as a kid when I played Gameboy, that Nintendo would grow up with me, and they haven't. Sega and Nintendo, hand-in-hand walked me down a brightly coloured path to living gaming - and now both of them are gone. Nintendo... Sega... gone. I thought they were gone last year, and I gave them one last chance here, I tried to be open-minded, but I can't do it anymore.

I cannot accept Nintendo's vision for gaming. I do not support the idea that titles such as Wii Fitness should be showcased as videogames.

I'm done Nintendo. You do what you want to do, you will never get another dollar from me. Say good-bye to the tens of thousands I've spent on your products over the years. Frankly, it's my finest wish that every other longtime Nintendo fan do the same. Hardcore gamers represent a great deal of software sales - as long as we continue to support their "blended" market - where they make *just enough* of a hardcore spin on ****c franchises to tempt us, they will be able to keep being insanely profitable.

-
-

I'm done. I'm sick and tired of having to hold my breath and pray - Sony this year "got it" - they were humble, they showed games, and they said "thanks for being here guys." Nintendo doesn't care. Sonic and Mario standing together in the same game should be enough of a warning sign to longtime gamers - hegehogs and plumbers running down a track together (at the same height, might I add, though Sega keeps changing how tall Sonic is every game, it's getting annoying) is, I believe, one of the signs of the apocalypse.
-
-
Nintendo's world has ended, and I'm done with it. Bye, see ya. Time to get a second or third job, because the future of gaming as I enjoy it does not lie in your competively priced "plug-n-play" remote controlled gaming box.

subrosian

theats why my friend i sold my wii...cause i seen that Nintendo where more foucused on commercial basic games that long time gamers like me wont like

but i wouldnt criticise them as they are bringing veriety to market, Wii a system that is diffrent and thats good for some consumers....the problem is that they are less interested in the hardcore gamer they basically turned thire back on the gamers that value them

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Eponique

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#342 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]I posted a lengthy response in the GUFU thread, so here I'll just say that you make some great points and I agree for the most part. Nintendo is still making the games that will please the Nintendo fanbase, but its quite clear they've given up on regaining the market base they lost back in the N64 era. It would also seem to me that theyr'e putting the Nintendo fans at a lower priority in favor of Wii-Fit, but its up to them to decide thats good enough. Personally I was a big Nintendo fan last generation, but the Wii has never been a console I felt I could support. With this last E3 conference, I've received confirmation that Nintendo isn't going to try to get me back.

Nintendo, I say farewell to you.
subrosian


They will be missed, eh Teuf? They gave us some good times...

And anyone hating on this - you *do not* understand how long I've been with Nintendo, or how much support (financially and otherwise) I've given them over the years. This is the second year in a row they've said a big "**** you" to hardcore gamers, it is getting old.

.... a job and a family doesn't mean that your not lazy... the stress of a family... both mentally and physically... there's a reason why america is the fattest country in the world... and i don't think gamers are disproving that

jaminnbn


First of all, Pacific Island countries make up some of the fatest countries in the world, due partially to a reliance on imported foods, and partially to genetics. Last time I checked, the US was at #9. Secondly, the obsiety crisis has everything to do with fast food - a massive intake of transfat, saturated fat, and sugar is not good *for anyone*. I'm 5'10" and 140lbs. Being a hardcore gamer has nothing to do with my weight - when I want excerise I do *crazy* things like mountain biking and going to the gym *shrug*... I know, I know, I'm a madman.

I'm not fat because I don't eat fast food or drink soda.

In fact, if you want to go in this direction, I highly suggest you actually *watch* yesterday's conference. Reggie certainly proves your point about non-gamers being "healthier", eh? Of course Miyamoto's "good excuse" was absolutely priceless (actually - it is true, BMI is a poor indicator of overall health, and a body builder or athlete would have a high BMI despite being healthy, hence why having the Wii Fitness pad test bodyfat would have made more sense... however Reggie is egg shaped, so, anyway...)




E3 has shrunk. It was a game show last year, it's a press confrence now.

And this thread should've only lasted 150 post, it's some guy's opinion instead you get like 300 posts of "I agree" which add nothing whatsoever. And 100 of 3,842 paragraphed posts...

Eponique



No offense Eponique, but I think you're afraid that what's being said here is true. I've been getting PMs from the most diehard Nintendo fans here who agree, at least in part, and want to refute specific points. The bottom line is, what I've said expresses a general feeling shared by many people on this forum.

Even if a lot of people here might disagree on one specific point or another, the sense that Nintendo really no longer cares about hardcore gamers (though they'd be more than happy for us to give them our money) is quite clear. I see posts that are essentially "No! It's not true! This isn't real! This can't be happening! You're wrong!" - I however, do not see any evidence.

Nintendo has, on more than one occasion in the past two years, made it crystal clear that their core gamer is no longer their concern. Telling us these are "gamers for everyone" is simply marketing - I apologize for not buying the bull**** - if you want to drink Nintendo's kool-aid that's your choice.

Heh, I'm pretty sure I've listed 14 so-called "hardcore" games just 30 minutes ago. And also bragged about how WiiFit doesn't mean it's the end of the world...

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SambaLele

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#343 SambaLele
Member since 2004 • 5552 Posts
this thread deserves a sticky.
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subrosian

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#344 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts
[QUOTE="joeychew"]

A+ for your essay..and yes i agreed with u. Not to mention nintendo just announce the wii fit....

Eponique

Microsoft just announced Viva Pinata as well.



Viva Pinata Party and Scene-It... Rock Band to a lesser extent... which is the industry shift that many of us feared would spread to the other companies... Nintendo's success sets an example that MS and Sony may follow, especially when they see how profitable it has been for Nintendo... I have been, frankly, concerned about this since the Wii came out, and we are starting to see the effects of it in the marketplace.

I'm not trying to dispute you or say you're wrong, Subrosian. You gotta do what you gotta do. But I just think you're being too hasty. You see the future as dull and bleak, I see it as bright and potentially getting brighter. Just a difference in perspective, I guess.

Hoffgod


I don't see the future as bleak, I just don't see Nintendo in my future. I don't consider a future where games like Bioshock, Fallout 3 (a bit concerned about Betheseda doing it though...), and Starcraft II are coming to be dull.
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#345 BloatWare
Member since 2007 • 97 Posts

*snip*subrosian

Agreed, I wrote this a few days ago (before E3 and "Wii Fit").... getting at precisely what you're getting at with your opening post:

It's a matter of developers catering to a given system's demographic, and that is precisely what we've been seeing in practice for the past 8 months on the Wii. For example, if a huge portion of potential Wii game purchasers are "non gamers" (people that didn't tend to enjoy video games prior to the advent of the Wii,) and they are, coupled with the fact that actually developing the type of game non-gamers are most likely to purchase (pick up for 5 minutes, put down. Rinse, lather, repeat) costs a small fraction of what developing a more traditional "old school" type of game costs then said developers are going to use the Wii as a direct pipeline to pump those sorts of games into the hands of the Wii's massive "non gaming" audience. They're going to reserve their larger-budget, traditional games for the 360 and the PS3 where the audience on that side of the fence is, by and large, far more likely to buy the more "hardcore" fare in massive numbers. That's what has been happening and there is absolutely no reason to believe it won't continue to happen. When you combine this trend with the fact that developers can no longer develop a game for one system and spread it across all three you can pretty easily visualize how the Wii's gaming landscape will develop in the upcoming years. A more traditional game developed for the PS3 and/or the 360 can not trickle down to the Wii, its hardware is prohibitively underpowered and its control scheme far too incompatible with those of its competitors.

Nintendo has managed what no other video game company has managed up to this point in the industry's history, they've targeted and locked onto non gamers (your mother, your sister, your aunt, your grandparents, etc.) with enormous success. Now, to maintain this newfound fanbase they're going to have to continue to supply them with games that cater to their tastes; Wii Sports, Wii Play,Monkeyball, WarioWare, etc... simple distractions that can be picked up and put down in 5 minute bursts. Those aren't the types of games most traditional gamers dig, I know I don't. The Wii is harvesting, and will continue to harvest, that sort of library. It has to, Wii developers need to follow the system's already-established audience to have the greatest chance of being financially successful on the platform.

All of these companies are after one thing: Money. Cash is king and gamers are money..... but at least Microsoft and Sony are going after my money rather than the lunch money from the nine year girl next door. I just hope Microsoft and Sony don't try to follow Nintendo down the yellow brick road they've paved in hope of breaking of a slice of Nintendo's pie.

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hyruledweller

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#346 hyruledweller
Member since 2006 • 3168 Posts

Also, whats all this 'good bye nintendo' and 'farewell old friend' stuff going on.

I hope people realize there release of new interactive games will just boast wii sales even more.

Nintendo arent going anyway.

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mentzer

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#347 mentzer
Member since 2007 • 1242 Posts

Very good post with many good points.

Nintendo truly is focused of giving us what "they think" is gaming as opposed to what "we think" is gaming.

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subrosian

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#348 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts

Heh, I'm pretty sure I've listed 14 so-called "hardcore" games just 30 minutes ago. And also bragged about how WiiFit doesn't mean it's the end of the world...

Eponique


I'll let you know when a Mario soccer game is considered "hardcore" - okay Eponique? I know it is your fondest wish that the Nintendo protesters, ex-Nintendo fans, concerned gamers, and hardcore gamers of the world be silenced - but that isn't going to happen.

The backlash over what Nintendo did at E3 2007 is, and will continue to be - huge. It was a definitive moment that made it crystal clear to many people that the things Nintendo has been saying over the past few months are *real*. Nintendo is going in the direction of the "non-gamer" for real, and they may never come back.
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Tsug_Ze_Wind

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#349 Tsug_Ze_Wind
Member since 2006 • 9511 Posts



They will be missed, eh Teuf? They gave us some good times...

And anyone hating on this - you *do not* understand how long I've been with Nintendo, or how much support (financially and otherwise) I've given them over the years. This is the second year in a row they've said a big "**** you" to hardcore gamers, it is getting old.

As I said in another thread, people take everything Nintendo does as something personal. You need to get off your high horse and lighten up, or you'll be missing out.

No offense Eponique, but I think you're afraid that what's being said here is true. I've been getting PMs from the most diehard Nintendo fans here who agree, at least in part, and want to refute specific points. The bottom line is, what I've said expresses a general feeling shared by many people on this forum.

Even if a lot of people here might disagree on one specific point or another, the sense that Nintendo really no longer cares about hardcore gamers (though they'd be more than happy for us to give them our money) is quite clear. I see posts that are essentially "No! It's not true! This isn't real! This can't be happening! You're wrong!" - I however, do not see any evidence.

What evidence do you expect? We could show you games, but I'm sure you've seen them.

Nintendo has, on more than one occasion in the past two years, made it crystal clear that their core gamer is no longer their concern. Telling us these are "gamers for everyone" is simply marketing - I apologize for not buying the bull**** - if you want to drink Nintendo's kool-aid that's your choice.

Once again, you're assuming that "games for everyone" is impossible. As I said before, the only thing in the way is elitism. Which you've shown aplenty.


subrosian

Alright, I jumped in.

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yoshi-lnex

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#350 yoshi-lnex
Member since 2007 • 5442 Posts

Brawl is online, this was announced a while ago.