Halo is not a proven AAA franchise yet

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="NextGenNow"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

yes halo and halo 2 were both AAA but that's only two points of reference and is not yet enough to establish a trend. halo 3 was blindly hyped since before it was even announced and now even halo wars is mentioned among future hyped games. i'm not saying that halo 3 or halo wars will definitely not be AAA but to assume that they will be due to the success of the first two games just seems a bit silly.

NextGenNow

why would i selectively apply it? :?

Halo 1 was a major success due in part to it's single player...however...Halo 2 was more of a success due to it's mulitplayer.

I just can't see this logic being without flaw....I mean....how could you think Gears 2 wouldn't be good? Or that Halo 3 won't wow it's fans and newcomers alike?

But then again my opinions are prolly more absurd lol :P

Edit: Upon rethinking this logic....I am inclined to like it :D

Makes sense to me.  The only things that would throw it off would be if Bungie made the single player more like Halo2 and the multiplayer like Halo1.  We know the latter isn't doing to happen based off the beta, so unless the single player tries to fail it will be a huge it.

OR

Gamers preference could have changed since the last Halo2 and bungie failed to capture the change.

All I know is that Halo Wars is doomed to flop now that people are hyping it to be better than Starcraft II. RurouniSaiyajin

yeah i know come on! i never seen fan boys obesses so much over one game until halo game out . 

All I know is that Halo Wars is doomed to flop now that people are hyping it to be better than Starcraft II. RurouniSaiyajin

I don't think anybody hyped Halo Wars into a starcraft killer.

While you are right that no game is guarenteed a AAA score. But going by past performance it is easier to think that Halo has a better chance to get it then not IMO. True they will have to add a lot more this time around. Whatever happens happens though.

As long as Mass Effect get a AAA score then all in the world will still be right   j/k well kinda

I agree that 2 games don't mean the 3rd is a guarantee success... but until there's a minor stumble in the franchise, most of us should expect AAA.

However... no franchise should be flop-proof.  You can expect a GTA game to flop at some point... same could be said with the Metroid Prime series, Gears of War, and others.  Nearly every established franchise has had its ups and downs, meaning a franchise with more than 3 games.  Halo 3 will likely be AAA, but Halo Wars could be AA... or dare I say... worse.

Just wondering, what are some AAA proven series to you Casey???deangallop

warcraft comes immediately to mind.

[QUOTE="thew13"]

Nothing could ever guarantee the 'next' game in the series will be as good as past games. You could have 5,6,7 straight AAA gfames and the next could always not live up to them. But as for expectations I think two AAA games point to a third AAA game.

CaseyWegner

i don't think that two games is enough to have an expectation of the third.

I think it is.  They set the bar high and have delivered twice.  What makes you think they will fail is a better question.  If you have reason for the drop then it maks sense.

Or how many games does it take to have a high expectation of the next?  Whatever your answer, the next game could flop simply because the design goes into a new direction or the gamer grows tired of the past.  So in that scenario 2 is just as good as 5. 

the first two were amazing, and the 3rd keeps the same gameplay and adds more. How can it not be as good as 1 or 2?hockeyruler12

[QUOTE="NextGenNow"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="NextGenNow"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

yes halo and halo 2 were both AAA but that's only two points of reference and is not yet enough to establish a trend. halo 3 was blindly hyped since before it was even announced and now even halo wars is mentioned among future hyped games. i'm not saying that halo 3 or halo wars will definitely not be AAA but to assume that they will be due to the success of the first two games just seems a bit silly.

The_Ish

why would i selectively apply it? :?

Halo 1 was a major success due in part to it's single player...however...Halo 2 was more of a success due to it's mulitplayer.

I just can't see this logic being without flaw....I mean....how could you think Gears 2 wouldn't be good? Or that Halo 3 won't wow it's fans and newcomers alike?

But then again my opinions are prolly more absurd lol :P

In his fairness, its possible. I know it goes against my previous logic, but take a look at Xenosaga and Devil May Cry. When they both made their debut they were critically acclaimed. When Xenosaga 2 and DMC2 came out they practicaly flopped.

[QUOTE="deangallop"]Just wondering, what are some AAA proven series to you Casey???CaseyWegner

warcraft comes immediately to mind.

How many crappy games does blizzard even make?  They are a different bread of dev, so I'd say anything they make will be good (if you like the genre).

[QUOTE="wiljas"]

Gamespot Protects the liars. But if you say it back and then prove why, you get suspended. So you better watch out. Doing the right thing these days will get you in trouble.

CaseyWegner

umm...what?

Umm.. yea

yes. past performance can give a better expectation of what's to come but far too many people guarantee that halo 3 will be AAA.CaseyWegner

This is system wars, I'm sure guarantee is used in the loosest sense of the word.  In other words, they can guarantee it because they'll never pay a meaningful price if they are wrong.  Plus it's fun if you're right you get bragging rights.  If you're wrong other's get to claim ownage.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="thew13"]

Nothing could ever guarantee the 'next' game in the series will be as good as past games. You could have 5,6,7 straight AAA gfames and the next could always not live up to them. But as for expectations I think two AAA games point to a third AAA game.

mikasa

i don't think that two games is enough to have an expectation of the third.

I think it is.  They set the bar high and have delivered twice.  What makes you think they will fail is a better question.  If you have reason for the drop then it maks sense.

Or how many games does it take to have a high expectation of the next?  Whatever your answer, the next game could flop simply because the design goes into a new direction or the gamer grows tired of the past.  So in that scenario 2 is just as good as 5. 

where am i saying that i think they will fail?

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="wiljas"]

Gamespot Protects the liars. But if you say it back and then prove why, you get suspended. So you better watch out. Doing the right thing these days will get you in trouble.

wiljas

umm...what?

Umm.. yea

"yea" isn't an answer to a "what" question.

I doubt Bungie will mess this up, they are way ahead of scheddule on this game.  Alot of stuff not announced for multi like the different armor sets and nobody has seen any real footage of in game singleplayer which I think will be the strong point of the game this time around.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]yes. past performance can give a better expectation of what's to come but far too many people guarantee that halo 3 will be AAA.mikasa

This is system wars, I'm sure guarantee is used in the loosest sense of the word.  In other words, they can guarantee it because they'll never pay a meaningful price if they are wrong.  Plus it's fun if you're right you get bragging rights.  If you're wrong other's get to claim ownage.

a AAA game is a AAA game. you get bragging rights whether or not you hyped it correctly.

yes. past performance can give a better expectation of what's to come but far too many people guarantee that halo 3 will be AAA.CaseyWegner

Yep just like Zelda, were i and i'm sure many others would have never thought TP could get below AAA, remember how that turned out. 

[QUOTE="wiljas"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="wiljas"]

Gamespot Protects the liars. But if you say it back and then prove why, you get suspended. So you better watch out. Doing the right thing these days will get you in trouble.

CaseyWegner

umm...what?

Umm.. yea

"yea" isn't an answer to a "what" question.

Well in this case it is... why you going off topic anyway?

the first two were amazing, and the 3rd keeps the same gameplay and adds more. How can it not be as good as 1 or 2?hockeyruler12

MGS3 Snake Eater, Twilight Princess, Mario Sunshine...it happens to every series at least once. It can happen to Halo 3.

Its the flagship franchise why would they let it drop below expectations?Medjai

it could happen whether they mean it to or not. they could come up with something that they think is great but won't be well received. there's no way of knowing until it's released.

Well in this case it is... why you going off topic anyway?

wiljas

send me a PM explaining what you mean. :)

Every AAA series has the potential of creating a flop, no series is invincible, even warcraft.

No series is AAA proven, you can never KNOW that a game is going to score AAA based on it's previous titles.

[QUOTE="hockeyruler12"]the first two were amazing, and the 3rd keeps the same gameplay and adds more. How can it not be as good as 1 or 2?Bread_or_Decide

MGS3 Snake Eater, Twilight Princess, Mario Sunshine...it happens to every series at least once. It can happen to Halo 3.

it does happen but I just don't see it happening here considering its the coup de grâce

and TP is AAA :)

[QUOTE="mikasa"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="thew13"]

Nothing could ever guarantee the 'next' game in the series will be as good as past games. You could have 5,6,7 straight AAA gfames and the next could always not live up to them. But as for expectations I think two AAA games point to a third AAA game.

CaseyWegner

i don't think that two games is enough to have an expectation of the third.

I think it is.  They set the bar high and have delivered twice.  What makes you think they will fail is a better question.  If you have reason for the drop then it maks sense.

Or how many games does it take to have a high expectation of the next?  Whatever your answer, the next game could flop simply because the design goes into a new direction or the gamer grows tired of the past.  So in that scenario 2 is just as good as 5. 

where am i saying that i think they will fail?

That was a rhetorical question.  In other words, if you someone claims Halo3 will be AAA (it's understood why it has a good chance of AAA).  But if you claim it's going to flop you need to explain why as the opposite is what's expected.

[QUOTE="Medjai"]Its the flagship franchise why would they let it drop below expectations?CaseyWegner

it could happen whether they mean it to or not. they could come up with something that they think is great but won't be well received. there's no way of knowing until it's released.

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]

[QUOTE="hockeyruler12"]the first two were amazing, and the 3rd keeps the same gameplay and adds more. How can it not be as good as 1 or 2?Medjai

MGS3 Snake Eater, Twilight Princess, Mario Sunshine...it happens to every series at least once. It can happen to Halo 3.

it does happen but I just don't see it happening here considering its the coup de grâce

and TP is AAA :)

Not in gamespot its not.

Well good intentions are nice...sometimes what was easily overlooked is no longer so easy to put aside. Its hard to reclaim that magic from the original.

You just stated the obvious in a paragraph. Nothing is ever assured.

Think about it. If I was to take an exam ment for a 9 year old then I would most probably pass it with full marks.

On the other end of the scale killzone 2 could get AAAA but its like me doing final exams for medicine.

Just from what ive read and played in beta it just seems like they have so much time to make the singleplayer better then halo 1/2 and multi a refined halo 2.  Alot of stuff in halo multi isnt even shown, like the brutes and cov along with new vehicles and armor sets.  Of course all the new added stuff could be received badly.. time will tell.

Prediction - 9.8

[QUOTE="mikasa"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]yes. past performance can give a better expectation of what's to come but far too many people guarantee that halo 3 will be AAA.CaseyWegner

This is system wars, I'm sure guarantee is used in the loosest sense of the word.  In other words, they can guarantee it because they'll never pay a meaningful price if they are wrong.  Plus it's fun if you're right you get bragging rights.  If you're wrong other's get to claim ownage.

a AAA game is a AAA game. you get bragging rights whether or not you hyped it correctly.

Oh I see you're looking at it from what fanboys get out of it.  I like to be right when I make a prediction it's fun.  So if I start claiming Halo3 will flop at 8.2 because of graphcis and repetive play and that's why it flopped....that would be awesome.   Plus many here do claim they got it right (or wrong), so many do find it fun in guessing what GS will score a game.

[QUOTE="Medjai"]Its the flagship franchise why would they let it drop below expectations?CaseyWegner

it could happen whether they mean it to or not. they could come up with something that they think is great but won't be well received. there's no way of knowing until it's released.

thats true esp if they do not do enough to improve the formula or go the other way and do to much to change it and it diverges from the formula. from what I have heard so far it sound like they have perfected the formula with this 1...it could happen its happened before but I would be absolutely shocked if this game didn't get AAA on GS and over 90% on GR...like I just said before its the coups de grâce for the Master Chief I just don't see them messing that up but who knows but its fun to speculate

Yep and look what happened to Zelda the game with the AAAA potential and guaranteed AAA score.smokeydabear076

Just from what ive read and played in beta it just seems like they have so much time to make the singleplayer better then halo 1/2 and multi a refined halo 2.  Alot of stuff in halo multi isnt even shown, like the brutes and cov along with new vehicles and armor sets.  Of course all the new added stuff could be received badly.. time will tell.7thSIN

For me one reason alone makes the multiplayer AAAA.  That's right I said AAAA!  It's the fact that I can start play within 1 minute of starting the game nearly everytime.  sometimes 2 minutes.  It quickly and efficiently matches we with others and I actually get to finish the game.  So many ubi games would be great if they had better online matchmaking and recovery when the host quits. 

If single player is AAA Halo can get as high as 9.8.

You just stated the obvious in a paragraph. Nothing is ever assured.

redstormrisen

if it was obvious, i wouldn't have needed to make it. ;)

Every AAA series has the potential of creating a flop, no series is invincible, even warcraft.

No series is AAA proven, you can never KNOW that a game is going to score AAA based on it's previous titles.

deangallop

well, Warcraft can flop, but like every other Blizzard game, its extreamly unlikely.

The way blizzard makes their games, they will delay their games for years or even cancle them if their not up to quality. 

I agree.XenogearsMaster

[QUOTE="smokeydabear076"]Yep and look what happened to Zelda the game with the AAAA potential and guaranteed AAA score.foxhound_fox

But zelda had more than 2 games, so this example is just saying no game is truly absolutely guaranteed AAA.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Medjai"]Its the flagship franchise why would they let it drop below expectations?Danthegamingman

it could happen whether they mean it to or not. they could come up with something that they think is great but won't be well received. there's no way of knowing until it's released.

it's the whole point of the thread. :|

[QUOTE="redstormrisen"]

You just stated the obvious in a paragraph. Nothing is ever assured.

CaseyWegner

if it was obvious, i wouldn't have needed to make it. ;)

You needed to make that?  I think you're being loose with the word need just as others are loose with the word guarantee.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="redstormrisen"]

You just stated the obvious in a paragraph. Nothing is ever assured.

mikasa

if it was obvious, i wouldn't have needed to make it. ;)

You needed to make that?  I think you're being loose with the word need just as others are loose with the word guarantee.

*sigh* yes. i was loose with the word "need" but people do actually guarantee that games will score a certain way. surely you've been here long enough to see it.

[QUOTE="Danthegamingman"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Medjai"]Its the flagship franchise why would they let it drop below expectations?CaseyWegner

it could happen whether they mean it to or not. they could come up with something that they think is great but won't be well received. there's no way of knowing until it's released.

it's the whole point of the thread. :|

people hype the unknown because they feel the need to hype the big franchises of there own systems but no one even knows what is AAA to them personally till they play them...while we all use GS reviews here at SW as a barometer, that doesn't necessarily make it AAA in the larger scope of things...I always say my favorite game maybe ever Rogue Spear got an 8.0 here

I don't know where I am going with this but at lease Halo has a AAA pedigree to base an opinion off not like some other games that are hyped here from unproven dev's

P.S. I miss Greg Kasavin's reviews

yes halo and halo 2 were both AAA but that's only two points of reference and is not yet enough to establish a trend. halo 3 was blindly hyped since before it was even announced and now even halo wars is mentioned among future hyped games. i'm not saying that halo 3 or halo wars will definitely not be AAA but to assume that they will be due to the success of the first two games just seems a bit silly.

CaseyWegner

[QUOTE="mikasa"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="redstormrisen"]

You just stated the obvious in a paragraph. Nothing is ever assured.

CaseyWegner

if it was obvious, i wouldn't have needed to make it. ;)

You needed to make that?  I think you're being loose with the word need just as others are loose with the word guarantee.

*sigh* yes. i was loose with the word "need" but people do actually guarantee that games will score a certain way. surely you've been here long enough to see it.

Right, and they pay the same price you just paid (at most) for guaranting a gamescore.  Which isn't a whole lot.  now if htey want to give me 10 to 1 odds, and bet 5 large, then we can see how many real guarantees there are.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="Danthegamingman"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="Medjai"]Its the flagship franchise why would they let it drop below expectations?Medjai

it could happen whether they mean it to or not. they could come up with something that they think is great but won't be well received. there's no way of knowing until it's released.

it's the whole point of the thread. :|

people hype the unknown because they feel the need to hype the big franchises of there own systems but no one even knows what is AAA to them personally...while we all use GS reviews here at SW as a barometer, that doesn't necessarily make it AAA in the larger scope of things...I always say my favorite game maybe ever Rogue Spear got an 8.0 here

I don't know where I am going with this but at lease Halo has a AAA pedigree to base an opinion off not like some other games that are hyped here from unproven dev's

*cough* killzone *cough*
*cough* liar *cough* oops I meant *cough* lair *cough*
*cough* warhawk *cough*

Actaully I take back killzone that's been proven a flop.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

yes halo and halo 2 were both AAA but that's only two points of reference and is not yet enough to establish a trend. halo 3 was blindly hyped since before it was even announced and now even halo wars is mentioned among future hyped games. i'm not saying that halo 3 or halo wars will definitely not be AAA but to assume that they will be due to the success of the first two games just seems a bit silly.

JayPee89

Its a AAA series. TC is making up his own rules.

not to be a jerk but what happened to the Halo3 sticky?? Casey did you take it down so you could start this thread :?Medjai

I was thinking the same thing.