Halo Wars is nothing special

Why are we still arguing about this as if is ever going to reach a consensus? Console gamers like me who want a simple RTS will likely enjoy the game, people who don't like RTS games will hate it, rational non-fanboys will say live and let game, and hermits and cows will bash it, hermits because it's "not a real RTS" and cows because they like to hate anything not on the PS3.SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Why are we still arguing about this as if is ever going to reach a consensus? Console gamers like me who want a simple RTS will likely enjoy the game, people who don't like RTS games will hate it, rational non-fanboys will say live and let game, and hermits and cows will bash it, hermits because it's "not a real RTS" and cows because they like to hate anything not on the PS3.SecretPolice

Indeed x3.

The only point I am trying to get across, is that Enbsemble did what it set out to do. It made an RTS feel like Halo, and if you ask me, that's an impressive feat. Because it feels like one of my favorite game franchises from one of my favorite developers, I enjoy it quite a bit. Even this old RTS gamer can step back and look at the game in perspective.

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

I've been reading through this thread, and most of the arguments in support of Halo Wars boil down to:

"In terms of overall design, core mechanics, and basic gameplay, it fails to meet the standards set by the RTS genre on the PC, but that doesn't matter because it's a Halo game."

Sounds like love to me... the unconditional kind.

I'm finding this high degree of passion for the Halo universe a little hard to understand, and a more than little hard to accept as real.

It seems more likely to me that we are experiencing a "Conduit effect", only now it's the 360 crowd settling for scraps from the table of the RTS genre, rather than the Wii fanboys settling for meager bits from the FPS bar across the room.

Metalscarz

Most people defending the game thus far defend it because they had fun with it. Regardless of other standards of RTS on PC, or your own. Some of us had FUN. PERIOD. Deep, not deep, Halo, not Halo, innovative or not people have had FUN with it. Deal.

I find your willingness to dismiss another persons opinion on what constitutes a fun game or good story and lore to them as rude, pompous and flat out arrogant. If you don't like something that fine, but to try and project negative and belittling mentalities upon people who differ in opinion ON VIDEOGAMES makes you a capital D douche. GTFO your pedestal and let people like what they want to, just like you like what you like. Your opinions are as worthless to the fans of the game, and Halo in general, as ours are to yours. The difference is I won't belittle you for not liking something I like. But that's the kind of ahole you are.

Most people defending the game don't want to debate quality. I care about quality, I care about genre standards, I find double-standards and poorly hidden ulterior motives amusing, and, as such, I have dipped my big toe into the piss bucket that is this debate.

I'm not insulting people who had fun with the demo. Ihad "fun" with it. Earlier in this thread I called it "mildly amusing". Look it up.

So don't come at me with this "opinion belittler" bull ****. If you don't like the things I say about a game that you like, then debate me on a point by point basis, and explain why I'm wrong, instead of just automatically starting in with this mindless "you're such a hater" dribble.

There is a debate to be had aside from "is it fun or not?" Some of us consider gaming our primary form of entertainment, and have a thorough knowledge of the history of the medium. Some of us want to discuss more than whether or not a game is fun on a basic level. If you don't want to be part of that debate, then hooray, good for you, bouquets, tip-o-the-hat, bravo, you win.

But, if you do take that position, don't expect anyone to respect you when your only response to a well thought out argument against a game is "but I had fun with it!" Some of us like to critique games and do comparative analysis; some of us don't just happily gulp down any bowl of horse vomit that's set before us.

Also, I'm going to absolutely rip into this "sure, the core stuff is weak sauce, but it's Halo, so who cares" crowd, because that's some serious bull **** if I've ever heard it, and don't pretend like that hasn't been going on in this thread and everyone was just saying "hey we had fun, so who cares about anything else". I can read.

P.S. I ****ing resent that remark. I'm a lower-case D douche, and everyone knows it.

Why are we still arguing about this as if is ever going to reach a consensus? Console gamers like me who want a simple RTS will likely enjoy the game, people who don't like RTS games will hate it, rational non-fanboys will say live and let game, and hermits and cows will bash it, hermits because it's "not a real RTS" and cows because they like to hate anything not on the PS3.SpruceCaboose

Most people defending the game don't want to debate quality. I care about quality, I care about genre standards, I find double-standards and poorly hidden ulterior motives amusing, and, as such, I have dipped my big toe into the piss bucket that is this debate.

I'm not insulting people who had fun with the demo. Ihad "fun" with it. Earlier in this thread I called it "mildly amusing". Look it up.

So don't come at me with this "opinion belittler" bull ****. If you don't like the things I say about a game that you like, then debate me on a point by point basis, and explain why I'm wrong, instead of just automatically starting in with this mindless "you're such a hater" dribble.

There is a debate to be had aside from "is it fun or not?" Some of us consider gaming our primary form of entertainment, and have a thorough knowledge of the history of the medium. Some of us want to discuss more than whether or not a game is fun on a basic level. If you don't want to be part of that debate, then hooray, good for you, bouquets, tip-o-the-hat, bravo, you win.

But, if you do take that position, don't expect anyone to respect you when your only response to a well thought out argument against a game is "but I had fun with it!" Some of us like to critique games and do comparative analysis; some of us don't just happily gulp down any bowl of horse vomit that's set before us.

Also, I'm going to absolutely rip into this "sure, the core stuff is weak sauce, but it's Halo, so who cares" crowd, because that's some serious bull **** if I've ever heard it, and don't pretend like that hasn't been going on in this thread and everyone was just saying "hey we had fun, so who cares about anything else". I can read.

P.S. I ****ing resent that remark. I'm a lower-case D douche, and everyone knows it.

jethrovegas

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Most people defending the game don't want to debate quality. I care about quality, I care about genre standards, I find double-standards and poorly hidden ulterior motives amusing, and, as such, I have dipped my big toe into the piss bucket that is this debate.

I'm not insulting people who had fun with the demo. Ihad "fun" with it. Earlier in this thread I called it "mildly amusing". Look it up.

So don't come at me with this "opinion belittler" bull ****. If you don't like the things I say about a game that you like, then debate me on a point by point basis, and explain why I'm wrong, instead of just automatically starting in with this mindless "you're such a hater" dribble.

There is a debate to be had aside from "is it fun or not?" Some of us consider gaming our primary form of entertainment, and have a thorough knowledge of the history of the medium. Some of us want to discuss more than whether or not a game is fun on a basic level. If you don't want to be part of that debate, then hooray, good for you, bouquets, tip-o-the-hat, bravo, you win.

But, if you do take that position, don't expect anyone to respect you when your only response to a well thought out argument against a game is "but I had fun with it!" Some of us like to critique games and do comparative analysis; some of us don't just happily gulp down any bowl of horse vomit that's set before us.

Also, I'm going to absolutely rip into this "sure, the core stuff is weak sauce, but it's Halo, so who cares" crowd, because that's some serious bull **** if I've ever heard it, and don't pretend like that hasn't been going on in this thread and everyone was just saying "hey we had fun, so who cares about anything else". I can read.

P.S. I ****ing resent that remark. I'm a lower-case D douche, and everyone knows it.

anshul89

But, if you do take that position, don't expect anyone to respect you when your only response to a well thought out argument against a game is "but I had fun with it!" Some of us like to critique games and do comparative analysis; some of us don't just happily gulp down any bowl of horse vomit that's set before us.jethrovegas

"Some of us" don't go into games solely as critics either. You should keep that in mind.

Remember folks, when gaming stops being about entertainment, it's time to find a new hobby.

Why are we still arguing about this as if is ever going to reach a consensus? Console gamers like me who want a simple RTS will likely enjoy the game, people who don't like RTS games will hate it, rational non-fanboys will say live and let game, and hermits and cows will bash it, hermits because it's "not a real RTS" and cows because they like to hate anything not on the PS3.SpruceCaboose

And not everyone goes into entertainment as a critic. In fact, going into something with the intention of finding things to nit-pick is exactly the opposite of entertainment for me (and is what most critics do), which is why I am only critical when someone asks me to be. When I am of my own accord, I prefer to experience entertainment for what it is....entertainment, and not for an assignment.SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]And not everyone goes into entertainment as a critic. In fact, going into something with the intention of finding things to nit-pick is exactly the opposite of entertainment for me (and is what most critics do), which is why I am only critical when someone asks me to be. When I am of my own accord, I prefer to experience entertainment for what it is....entertainment, and not for an assignment.anshul89

It's Halo, therefore it's the wost game ever made. It's not even an RTS. Worst game ever.

Killzone 2 anyone?

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]And not everyone goes into entertainment as a critic. In fact, going into something with the intention of finding things to nit-pick is exactly the opposite of entertainment for me (and is what most critics do), which is why I am only critical when someone asks me to be. When I am of my own accord, I prefer to experience entertainment for what it is....entertainment, and not for an assignment.anshul89

Unique is not what makes a game good though. Look at your own sig; you're playing Fifa 09, one of the best soccer games i've ever played. There's nothing remotely "new", unique or special about it at all. Same with Forza. Same with COD:WaW. Great games, but they've been done. There's absolutely nothing new or innovative whatsoever about The Good The Bad and the Ugly but it's still one of the best films ever made. I think people substitute a sudden need for games to be "unique" when they lack a real argument in trying to criticise it.Ninja-Hippo

No you are not. At least, from what you are saying and have said, you sure aren't. You are going into a game critically, and you have been critical of this game long before there was a demo out to try. Like I said, you have your prerogative, I have mine, and they are miles different.SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]But, if you do take that position, don't expect anyone to respect you when your only response to a well thought out argument against a game is "but I had fun with it!" Some of us like to critique games and do comparative analysis; some of us don't just happily gulp down any bowl of horse vomit that's set before us.Verge_6

"Some of us" don't go into games solely as critics either. You should keep that in mind.

Remember folks, when gaming stops being about entertainment, it's time to find a new hobby.

I don't go into games solely as a critic, but I do think critically whilst I'm playing... and so do you.

When you played Far Cry 2 and said to yourself "man, this malaria thing really sucks ass", guess what? You were being a critic, and that puts you in the same pool as me, albeit at the other end.

You should swim on over to our end. We have spa jets and floating cup holders.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]But, if you do take that position, don't expect anyone to respect you when your only response to a well thought out argument against a game is "but I had fun with it!" Some of us like to critique games and do comparative analysis; some of us don't just happily gulp down any bowl of horse vomit that's set before us.jethrovegas

"Some of us" don't go into games solely as critics either. You should keep that in mind.

Remember folks, when gaming stops being about entertainment, it's time to find a new hobby.

I don't go into games solely as a critic, but I do think critically whilst I'm playing... and so do you.

When you played Far Cry 2 and said to yourself "man, this malaria thing really sucks ass", guess what? You were being a critic, and that puts you in the same pool as me, albeit at the other end.

You should swim on over to our end. We have spa jets and floating cup holders.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Unique is not what makes a game good though. Look at your own sig; you're playing Fifa 09, one of the best soccer games i've ever played. There's nothing remotely "new", unique or special about it at all. Same with Forza. Same with COD:WaW. Great games, but they've been done. There's absolutely nothing new or innovative whatsoever about The Good The Bad and the Ugly but it's still one of the best films ever made. I think people substitute a sudden need for games to be "unique" when they lack a real argument in trying to criticise it.anshul89

I think the main reason people will get this is for the story not the RTS gameplay.Nomad0404

I don't go into games solely as a critic, but I do think critically whilst I'm playing... and so do you.

When you played Far Cry 2 and said to yourself "man, this malaria thing really sucks ass", guess what? You were being a critic, and that puts you in the same pool as me, albeit at the other end.

You should swim on over to our end. We have spa jets and floating cup holders.

jethrovegas

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]No you are not. At least, from what you are saying and have said, you sure aren't. You are going into a game critically, and you have been critical of this game long before there was a demo out to try. Like I said, you have your prerogative, I have mine, and they are miles different.anshul89

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

I don't go into games solely as a critic, but I do think critically whilst I'm playing... and so do you.

When you played Far Cry 2 and said to yourself "man, this malaria thing really sucks ass", guess what? You were being a critic, and that puts you in the same pool as me, albeit at the other end.

You should swim on over to our end. We have spa jets and floating cup holders.

Ninja-Hippo

Well, I am exceptionally dense, so I'm not surprised that I've missed the point of the game entirely.

Would you mind explaining that point to me?

Because, as I see it, the point of Halo Wars is to give the 360 an RTS, in the same way that the point of The Conduit is to give the Wii an FPS, and these title's problems are being overlooked for largely the same reasons.

Clearly though, I'm way off base, so please, by all means, draw the curtains of my ignorance asunder.

Well, I am exceptionally dense, so I'm not surprised that I've missed the point of the game entirely.

Would you mind explaining that point to me?

Because, as I see it, the point of Halo Wars is to give the 360 an RTS, in the same way that the point of The Conduit is to give the Wii an FPS, and these title's problems are being overlooked for largely the same reasons.

Clearly though, I'm way off base, so please, by all means, draw the curtains of my ignorance asunder.

jethrovegas

Like i said earlier, it's like playing counter strike and complaining that you cant play the game as a fast-paced twitch shooter like Unreal; it's not MEANT to be played that way, that's not what it's about.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]And not everyone goes into entertainment as a critic. In fact, going into something with the intention of finding things to nit-pick is exactly the opposite of entertainment for me (and is what most critics do), which is why I am only critical when someone asks me to be. When I am of my own accord, I prefer to experience entertainment for what it is....entertainment, and not for an assignment.anshul89

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]

There's plenty of micromanaging in Halo Wars. In fact, if you don't micro, you'll get owned by guys like me. :) Of course you wouldn't know that because you haven't played the game yet. You're just one of many haters who have no idea what they're talking about. But please go on, it's very amusing.

xsubtownerx

Oh God... here we go again... i'm hater because my opinion differs from yours.

Just the fact that you're limited to a controler points out that micromanaging has nothing compare to PC RTS.

I'm comparing to other RTS... and compared to other RTS it does have none.

The only reason why you think i'm a hater, is because I don't seem to say halo wars is great... well guess what, I never said it was a bad game.

I'm comparing to other RTS... and compared to other RTS it does have none.

The only reason why you think i'm a hater, is because I don't seem to say halo wars is great... well guess what, I never said it was a bad game.

Bebi_vegeta

[QUOTE="anshul89"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]And not everyone goes into entertainment as a critic. In fact, going into something with the intention of finding things to nit-pick is exactly the opposite of entertainment for me (and is what most critics do), which is why I am only critical when someone asks me to be. When I am of my own accord, I prefer to experience entertainment for what it is....entertainment, and not for an assignment.Ninja-Hippo

I think this is what we expect from the RTS world... new features, new gameplay, graphic is not the main point.

If SC2 would be the same game as SC1... it would be a major let down.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

I'm comparing to other RTS... and compared to other RTS it does have none.

The only reason why you think i'm a hater, is because I don't seem to say halo wars is great... well guess what, I never said it was a bad game.

Ninja-Hippo

I'm not even talking about ressources, but alright...

I think this is what we expect from the RTS world... new features, new gameplay, graphic is not the main point.

If SC2 would be the same game as SC1... it would be a major let down.

Bebi_vegeta

I'm not even talking about ressources, but alright...

Bebi_vegeta

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

I think this is what we expect from the RTS world... new features, new gameplay, graphic is not the main point.

If SC2 would be the same game as SC1... it would be a major let down.

Ninja-Hippo

Yes, true. But once you played many games... you're seeking for something new.... been there, done this, next. Some RTS games do what Halo can and more...

Again, I never said it was bad game... it does what it does, halo in a RTS univers... and yes, people will enjoy it.

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Well, I am exceptionally dense, so I'm not surprised that I've missed the point of the game entirely.

Would you mind explaining that point to me?

Because, as I see it, the point of Halo Wars is to give the 360 an RTS, in the same way that the point of The Conduit is to give the Wii an FPS, and these title's problems are being overlooked for largely the same reasons.

Clearly though, I'm way off base, so please, by all means, draw the curtains of my ignorance asunder.

Ninja-Hippo

Like i said earlier, it's like playing counter strike and complaining that you cant play the game as a fast-paced twitch shooter like Unreal; it's not MEANT to be played that way, that's not what it's about.

I don't recall ever having complained about either of these things.

My problem with the game rests in the fact that there just isn't any strategy to it, in general. You wait around for your loot meter to fill up, you build units, you upgrade a little, build more units, you attack, and that's it.

When you say that it is "focused on combat" yeah, you're damn right it is, to the degree that there is practically nothing else.

Buildings can only be placed in "slots", meaning that there is no base organization to think about. Your defensive structures can't be placed in strategic locations; they have to be in the same places every time, which removes just another layer of strategic depth from the game, a layer that could have helped it be a lot less boring.

Good RTS games keep the player busy. In Halo Wars I spent far too much time with the controller resting on my lap, as I waited for my resource meter to fill up. Simply put, there isn't anything to do besides raise some units, and wipe out the enemy base.

Extensive teching isn't even necessary. All you really need to do is drop just enough cash to get some uber units, and you're done. Get a scarab on the map and call that **** a day.

I admit to being somewhat entertained by it; I've always liked Halo's art direction, mostly when it comes to the Covenant, and it was sort of cool to see a scarab ****ing up a human base or crawling across the side of a ridge, but that appeal has already started to go away, and the whole "pretty colors" factor sure as hell isn't enough to make me drop $60 on this game, and I can't understand why it would be enough for anyone else either, considering you can get deep, almost endlessly entertaining PC RTS games like Sins of a Solar Empire (a game that could run smoothly on a calculator), for $20.

Once again, sounds like love to me.