How many multi-plats were held back this generation because of 360's DVD format?

"Overtime, more and more publishers and developers have come out to vindicate Sony's decision in using Blu-ray media as the primary medium for the PlayStation 3. Earlier on, skeptics told Sony that Blu-ray was pointless, that it only drove up the cost of the PS3, and that DVD storage was enough. As time has gone by, those skeptics have been proven wrong time and time again. Dan Houser has made perhaps the most important critique and justification of Sony's decision to use Blu-ray.

Who's Dan Houser? The Co-founder, along with brother Sam, of Rockstar...you know, those Grand Theft Auto guys. Speaking to 1up, Dan Houser states the standard dual-layer DVD simply isn't enough, and that it too became a problem during GTAIV's development. This raises some concern on whether or not the next Grand Theft Auto game will fit on an Xbox 360 disc, because Rockstar's motto has consistently been focused on making each and every new game larger than the last.

"One of the problems with the 360, and it affects games like Grand Theft Auto if you think about how much content we put in the actual machine, is the fact that they don't have a significantly larger storage medium than the previous systems. It's a slightly bigger DVD disc," Houser told 1up.

The hard drive issue is also another problem Rockstar sees with the Xbox 360, as not every Xbox 360 has a hard drive, which makes it very hard for Rockstar to implement HDD features into the X360 game. Continuing on the subject of limited disc space, Houser states, "the 360 is going to have to get 'round this issue we're talking about...hopefully, they're going to adopt one of those in the next year or so, because it's going to become more of an issue. If we're filling up the disc right now, where are we going? It's not like our games are going to get any smaller."

This bit of news brings up two thoughts in my head. 1) It wasn't just the PlayStation 3 that was responsible for the delay, as it seems rather clear that condensing content onto the Xbox 360's disc was a problem for Rockstar. 2) This problem seems all too familiar, as it's affected Nintendo in two generations, with the GameCube, and especially the Nintendo 64. Dozens of developers gave up working on the Nintendo 64 because of how limited the cartridge was, providing a maximum of only 64MB. But unlike the N64, the Xbox 360 has a solution: multi-disc games, which were very common back in the PlayStation days. For example, Lost Odyssey for the Xbox 360 boasts four DVDs worth of gameplay.

So does this potentially mean more multi-disc games in the future for the Xbox 360? Probably. What it doesn't mean is that Rockstar will release GTAV exclusively for the PS3 next time around, so put your shiny magic balls away."

http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/2966.html

So before you say, "Why don't they just not worry about space and limiting content, and release games on multiple discs for the 360"?

Well apparently, Microsoft charges publishers a hefty fee per additional disc used.

Fast forward to 2 minutes and 50 seconds into this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

About zero.

who cares? there have been amazing games this gen regardless. how many were held back because they had to be ported to the ps3?mems_1224

About zero.

Fizzman

This.

Non-mandatory harddrives on the other hand is another issue.

[QUOTE="mems_1224"]who cares? there have been amazing games this gen regardless. how many were held back because they had to be ported to the ps3?Blabadon

Since both HD consoles only have 512 megs of Total Ram, None.

None

I'm going to say none.

All too often I see people bashing on the PS3 for having a blu ray drive, saying that if they wanted to watch blu ray movies they'd just buy a blu ray player. These same people don't understand that the main purpose of including a blu ray drive in the PS3 was so the developers for PS3 exclusive games could work with a true next gen storage medium, ultimately allowing for uncompressed, higher quality audio and visuals, along with additional storage for content purposes. This a part of the reason why PS3 exclusives look and sound as great as they do.

PS3 exclusive games such as Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, LittleBigPlanet, Resistance 2, Killzone 2, Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Resistance: Fall of Man and Heavenly Sword all benefited from the higher capacity of the blu ray storage medium in some shape or form. Multi-platform games such as Grand Theft Auto 4 and Rage are very limited in terms of options because they have to account for the Xbox 360s DVD-9 storage medium. Timed exclusive games such as Bioshock and Oblivion have seen improvements on their PS3 counterparts after being given the opportunity to utilize the blu ray.

For Grand Theft Auto 4, Rockstar Games founder, Sam Houser, talks about why the 360 is the reason why GTA4 isn't living up to its potential. "In a lengthy interview with 1UP to talk about GTA IV, Rockstar Games founder Sam Houser has commented on an issue that has already been highlighted by other developers: The Xbox 360 doesn't have a built-in hard drive as the previous Xbox and for retail games it uses DVD-9, which is starting to look outdated compared to the Blu-ray Disc solution used by the PlayStation 3.

One of the problems with the 360, and it affects games like Grand Theft Auto if you think about how much content we put in the actual machine, is the fact that they don't have a significantly larger storage medium than the previous systems. It's a slightly bigger DVD disc.

Houser said he has discussed this issue with Microsoft, hoping the software giant will come up with a solution soon:

I met with a bunch of the senior fellows from [Microsoft].
I said, that's kind of complicated.... The upshot of the technical challenges we've experienced on either the 360 or on the PS3 is [that] both companies stepped up to the plate and have supported us in a way that was beyond even my greedy expectations. They've been amazing. I think that the 360 is going to have to get 'round this issue we're talking about. I can think of various ways they can do it. Hopefully, they're going to adopt one of those in the next year or so, because it's going to become more of an issue. If we're filling up the disc right now, where are we going? It's not like our games are going to get any smaller. I think that issue's on the table with a bunch of games right now. I'm sure they'll come through with an intelligent solution."

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/16302/Rockstar-Games-Storage-is-a-Problem-with-the-Xbox-360/

For Rage, "The Father of FPS", John Carmack, talks about how the architecture of the PS3 is truely next gen.

Carmack talks harddrives, "The question of harddrive requirements on the 360 is something that's been stressing us out a little bit this year where Microsoft has refused to allow us to have a harddrive requirement on theirs. So now we are working hard to see how well we can make things function while streaming from the dvd. Certainly we will use the harddrive where available as a secondary backing cache, but that's gonna be one of those things that if you run without a harddrive on there we're not yet sure how high of quality the streaming experience is going to be. It'll obviously work, it's just a question of if you run around a corner and flip around to look some place completely different whether you wind up spending 2 seconds looking at blurry textures before everything comes in."

Carmack talks Blu Ray, "The most significant difference that we're looking at right now between the platforms is that on a blu ray dvd on the PS3, we actually have enough space to get the quality that we want with the compression ratios that we want on the entire game. We're really feeling the pinch a lot on the dvds. We're going to be at least a 2 dvd game on the 360. Honestly, we would like to be a 3 dvd game. That would match out the blu ray pretty well on there. It doesn't fit really well with how the game is divided, but we're going to have to wind up making some compression quality sacrifices to fit onto 2 dvds on the 360. That's one thing that I really do wish Microsoft would make some concessions on because you have to pay a really honorous licensing fee per dvd. If you look at it like cost per gigabyte on there, the PS3 has a huge advantage if you're making a large game. And that's really the main thing that I come down and say Sony has a better system for us there, where running off a blu ray there, or, I don't expect we're going to, but if you wanted to do a double layer blu ray dvd you can have incredibly massive amounts of data. The technology that we're using now really does wind up using all of that data for good, productive things. Being limited to the dvds, which Microsoft already takes a couple gigabytes off of the way that they set things up for their different security architectures is kind of unfortunate."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU&feature=related





Even games that were timed exclusives, such as Oblivion and Bioshock utilized the additional space of the blu ray before making their debut on the PS3. The following quotes are from IGN.

For Bioshock, "2K Games went out of their way to make sure that the larger capacity of the Blu-ray was used to implement higher resolution textures across the title, as well as improve some of the in-game cutscenes. For the most part, you'll see these appear as a slightly sharper Rapture across the board, and you'll be able to pick up some features that look better than on the 360, such as pools of water or neon signage."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/920/920389p1.html

For Oblivion, "the PS3 version of Oblivion is a definite technical improvement over the 360 edition. Even if you have the latest Xbox patch installed, this newest port holds an advantage with its quicker loading times (which are almost twice as fast as the 360's), fewer framerate hitches, sharper textures, a better draw distance, and a brighter overall picture."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/775/775711p1.html

For Uncharted, Co-President of Naughty Dog, Christophe Balestra had this to say about the utilization of blu ray in the making of Uncharted. "As I said earlier, we couldn't have done Uncharted without the Blu-ray, at least at the quality we wanted to make it. To get such high-resolution textures and movies, a Blu-ray was indispensable to achieve the graphic quality of Uncharted. We fill the disc at 91 percent and it's optimized, meaning we don't duplicate any data. That includes all our game data, sounds, 7 spoken languages and 102 minutes of movie."

http://www.gamezone.com/article.php?artid=5775

For Metal Gear Solid 4, the 50 gig capacity of the blu ray wasn't even good enough. Read this mini interview with Kojima:

Kojima: For us, we're not still not satisfied with the quality we can do. You know, there's not capacity space.
Interviewer: Wait, wait a sec. Saying there's not enough capacity, are you talking about Blu-ray?

Kojima: That's correct. There's not enough space at all. (laughs) ...There's not enough space. We always talked about where to cut and what to compress.

http://kotaku.com/362807/kojima-says-blu+ray-disc-doesnt-have-enough-space

For LittleBigPlanet, don't bet on seeing this game becoming downloadable on the PSN, as it fills up the blu ray disc.

"Anybody who thought that the PSN-friendly nature of LittleBigPlanet meant the game could be offered as a downloadable title will probably dash that dream when they find out the game takes up 40GB. In an interview with GI.biz, developer Alex Evans explains the game will be "filling up" the Blu-ray disc.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/09/10/littlebigplanet-fills-up-blu-ray-disc/

For Resistance 2, Ted Price ellaborates as to why blu ray storage is needed for his latest game.

"According to Insomniac CEO Ted Price, upcoming sequel Resistance 2 is larger than its predecessor but still hasn't reached full capacity of a 50GB Blu-ray disc.

"Yeah we're right up to the edge," said Price. "It's bigger than the first Resistance but we haven't reached the Blu-ray disc capacity."

From what we were told at the Resistance 2 hands-on preview event two weeks ago, Resistance 2 is over double the size of the first title, which hit around 22GB. With two complete campaign modes and a deep online game, it's no surprise that the game is in need of hefty storage."

http://www.psu.com/Insomniac-hasnt-yet-reached-full-Blu-ray-disc-capacity-News--a0004962-p0.php

For Killzone 2, Guerrilla managing director Herman Hulst and Killzone 2 producer Steven Ter Heide explain why the blu ray was such a determining factor in making this amazing game.

"Speaking about working on a game for a single platform instead of going down that multi-platform route, Guerrilla managing director Merman Hulst, said, "It's a huge benefit. If you're developing a game on multiple platforms there are restrictions you always have to take into consideration.

"We are taking huge advantage of the architecture of PS3. I firmly believe that what we've shown we can get out of that machine would be difficult, if not impossible, to deliver on a competing machine." If that isn't intended as a a knockout blow to the chops of 360 we don't know what is.

Killzone 2 producer Steven Ter Heide added, "I would say impossible. We literally can't do this stuff on any machine other than the PS3. If you're developing a multiplatform game, and looking at your budgets, you have to find a common denominator between the systems and say: that's what I'm developing for. Whereas someone focused on a single platform can really take advantage of everything it has to offer.

"If you're not willing to make that investment then you're going to lose out on some options. To make it simple, the Xbox 360 doesn't have SixAxis or Blu-ray. PlayStation 3 does. And for us that's a really big thing. The level you've just seen is 2GB. We really need Blu-ray to make the game. I don't know how you could fit it on Xbox 360 without taking some shortcuts."

And that's not the first time 360's DVD format has been called into question.

Hulst continued, "Blu-ray isn't important for watching movies; we need it for making games."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/171290/killzone-dev-blu-ray-is-for-games-not-movies/

For Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction,

"Set to run at 60 fps, the title will support both 720p and 1080i. For all you Resistance fans, they promise that all of their upcoming PS3 titles will support 60 fps (and that means Resistance 2 as well). Back to Ratchet and Clank, the title will take up a whopping 22 GB of a 25 GB Blu-ray disc. Even without the localizations, the title couldn't fit on a DVD9."

http://www.gamegrep.com/games/ratchet_and_clank_5/

For Resistance: Fall of Man, Schneider ellaborates:

"Schneider offered some distinguishing stats (which he called MTV News on Tuesday to further clarify). The game, he said, currently takes up 22 Gigabytes of memory on a Blu-Ray disc, the new disc format supported by the PS3 that is one-half of a VHS-vs.-Betamax format war erupting between tech companies throughout the year. While the music and vocals in "Resistance" take up only about 1 Gigabyte of disc space, graphics, level data and programming code occupy most of the remaining 21.

"We're going to fit more on a Blu-Ray disc than you could on an HD DVD," he said, referring to the competing format, which in its most basic discs can't hold more than 15 GB. More numbers: 40-player online matches at launch; 60 levels of player progression while playing online; two-player offline co-op. Phillips promised better, deeper support than any Xbox Live launch title.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1539078/gamefile-resistance-fall-man-more.jhtml?headlines=true

For Heavenly Sword, Ninja Theory's chief of development, Nina Kristensen, talks about how the game wouldn't have been possible on another console.

"Ninja Theory's self-titled Chief Development 'Ninja', Nina Kristensen has admitted that the company's forthcoming PlayStation 3 epic Heavenly Sword would not be possible without the added storage capabilities of Sony's Blu-ray technology.

Speaking to CVG this week, Kristensen revealed that the firm had employed various compression methods in order to squeeze the game onto a 25GB Blu-ray disk, including the audio, which alone took up approximately 10GB worth of data. A single DVD, however, only holds 8.5GB worth of information.

"We have jam-packed the Blu-Ray disc absolutely full," she said. "We used compression all over the place. We had to be really judicious at the end with what was going on the disc and what wasn't."

"I think it's one of those things - if you give us the space we're going to fill it with stuff. It means the audio can be of a higher quality and stuff like that. It all adds to the quality of the package", added Kristensen."

http://www.psu.com/Heavenly-Sword-not-possible-without-Blu-ray--a0001128-p0.php











Everytime someone on these boards says the blu ray drive in the PS3 is useless, and they should have just not included it in the system and made it cheaper, and say that the only purpose of it is watching blu ray movies which they all "don't care about", consider the fact that it is one of the reasons all of the PS3 exclusive games kick so much ass. Sit back, relax, enjoy your awesome exclusives or pop in a blu ray movie

I'm pretty sure none. Idiots argue that most multiplats peform better on the 360, but with just slight differences well besides Splinter Cell: Double Agent where the 360 obviously wins. I also question why the hell you use a playstation fanboy heavy site on this argument.

That long post I just posted is something I wrote up like 3 years ago, so I'm sure there are many more examples now that the generation has almost come to an end. Those are just the examples from early 2009.

Here is the thread on it if you wanna read it, some good laughs.

http://boards.ign.com/ps3_lobby/b8269/179201778/r179203151/

I'm pretty sure none. Idiots argue that most multiplats peform better on the 360, but with just slight differences well besides Splinter Cell: Double Agent where the 360 obviously wins. I also question why the hell you use a playstation fanboy heavy site on this argument.

sonic1564

A Playstation fanboy heavy site?

Perhaps you would prefer reading an Xbox fanboy heavy site say the exact same thing?

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/16302/Rockstar-Games-Storage-is-a-Problem-with-the-Xbox-360/

Lost Planet 2, Capcom cut 20 hours of content thanks to Xbox

[QUOTE="sonic1564"]

I'm pretty sure none. Idiots argue that most multiplats peform better on the 360, but with just slight differences well besides Splinter Cell: Double Agent where the 360 obviously wins. I also question why the hell you use a playstation fanboy heavy site on this argument.

arkephonic

A Playstation fanboy heavy site?

Perhaps you would prefer reading an Xbox fanboy heavy site say the exact same thing?

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/16302/Rockstar-Games-Storage-is-a-Problem-with-the-Xbox-360/

I'm just saying that PS3 fans should talk PS3 stuff and 360 fans should talk 360 stuff.

The article about Rockstar should not concern a Playstation based website since it will make all the fanboys start a flame war. Just pointing out the obvious with these articles. Make a article stating more than one platform, support one over the other, fanboys rage, rinse and repeat.

pc games say oh hai!

:lol: i mean really, you literally have to be one of the biggest derps ever to think where you store your ones and zeros has anything to do with the performance of a game.

there is not one game made this gen that could not have been on the 19th century paper punch cards that they used to program textile looms.

sure you would need a tower of them 18 miles tall but so what, the actual games would be identical after you fed them in.

on top of that the ps3 requires manditory installs, what difference does the format make if you are just offloading to the hdd?

:lol: seriously people, get real.

That long post I just posted is something I wrote up like 3 years ago, so I'm sure there are many more examples now that the generation has almost come to an end. Those are just the examples from early 2009.

Here is the thread on it if you wanna read it, some good laughs.

http://boards.ign.com/ps3_lobby/b8269/179201778/r179203151/

arkephonic

pc games say oh hai!

:lol: i mean really, you literally have to be one of the biggest derps ever to think where you store your ones and zeros has anything to do with the performance of a game.

there is not one game made this gen that could not have been on the 19th century paper punch cards that they used to program textile looms.

sure you would need a tower of them 18 miles tall but so what, the actual games would be identical after you fed them in.

Riverwolf007

Perhaps you missed the part where Microsoft charges a very hefty fee per additional DVD used in a game.

Fast Forward to 2 minutes 50 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

Lemmings saying none... Theres delusional and theres like lemming disability level delusional.

To think if the 360 had blu ray not a single game would have had more content is sooooo lol worthy :lol: wow lems, :lol:

To be honest, the blu ray was a bit rushed. Most PS3 games require hard disk installs because of the BD drive speed limitation of the PS3.

I'd say SONY would've been better off releasing their console in 2005 (along MS) with a fast DVD drive instead.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

pc games say oh hai!

:lol: i mean really, you literally have to be one of the biggest derps ever to think where you store your ones and zeros has anything to do with the performance of a game.

there is not one game made this gen that could not have been on the 19th century paper punch cards that they used to program textile looms.

sure you would need a tower of them 18 miles tall but so what, the actual games would be identical after you fed them in.

arkephonic

Perhaps you missed the part where Microsoft charges a very hefty fee per additional DVD used in a game.

Fast Forward to 2 minutes 50 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

ps3 games require manditory installs which means ps3 games could have been on cassette tapes for all the difference it makes.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

pc games say oh hai!

:lol: i mean really, you literally have to be one of the biggest derps ever to think where you store your ones and zeros has anything to do with the performance of a game.

there is not one game made this gen that could not have been on the 19th century paper punch cards that they used to program textile looms.

sure you would need a tower of them 18 miles tall but so what, the actual games would be identical after you fed them in.

Riverwolf007

Perhaps you missed the part where Microsoft charges a very hefty fee per additional DVD used in a game.

Fast Forward to 2 minutes 50 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

ps3 games require manditory installs which means ps3 games could have been on cassette tapes for all the difference it makes.

Well outside of your fantasy land, developers and publishers do care about profitability, and the performance on games suffer because of it.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

pc games say oh hai!

:lol: i mean really, you literally have to be one of the biggest derps ever to think where you store your ones and zeros has anything to do with the performance of a game.

there is not one game made this gen that could not have been on the 19th century paper punch cards that they used to program textile looms.

sure you would need a tower of them 18 miles tall but so what, the actual games would be identical after you fed them in.

Riverwolf007

Perhaps you missed the part where Microsoft charges a very hefty fee per additional DVD used in a game.

Fast Forward to 2 minutes 50 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

ps3 games require manditory installs which means ps3 games could have been on cassette tapes for all the difference it makes.

Lemmings saying none... Theres delusional and theres like lemming disability level delusional.

To think if the 360 had blu ray not a single game would have had more content is sooooo lol worthy :lol: wow lems, :lol:

Eddie-Vedder

Sony for sure is the king of brainwash lol

Do you realise games like RDR, Skyrim, Fallout 3, New Vegas, etc are bigger in content than any PS3 exclusive?

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

Perhaps you missed the part where Microsoft charges a very hefty fee per additional DVD used in a game.

Fast Forward to 2 minutes 50 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

arkephonic

ps3 games require manditory installs which means ps3 games could have been on cassette tapes for all the difference it makes.

Well outside of your fantasy land, developers and publishers do care about profitability, and the performance on games suffer because of it.

Oh dear God. I thought there weren't anymore idiots who believed that format actually contributes to games in any meaningful way. Just another plague brought to us buy cows and their uncondiitional love of the whole in the center of a blu ray disc. -25 points for a completely ignorant notion.

Oh dear God. I thought there weren't anymore idiots who believed that format actually contributes to games in any meaningful way. Just another plague brought to us buy cows and their uncondiitional love of the whole in the center of a blu ray disc. -25 points for a completely ignorant notion.

Frostbite24

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]

Lemmings saying none... Theres delusional and theres like lemming disability level delusional.

To think if the 360 had blu ray not a single game would have had more content is sooooo lol worthy :lol: wow lems, :lol:

PAL360

Sony for sure is the king of brainwash lol

Do you realise games like RDR, Skyrim, Fallout 3, New Vegas, etc are bigger in content than any PS3 exclusive?

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

Perhaps you missed the part where Microsoft charges a very hefty fee per additional DVD used in a game.

Fast Forward to 2 minutes 50 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

DrTrafalgarLaw

ps3 games require manditory installs which means ps3 games could have been on cassette tapes for all the difference it makes.

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"]

Oh dear God. I thought there weren't anymore idiots who believed that format actually contributes to games in any meaningful way. Just another plague brought to us buy cows and their uncondiitional love of the whole in the center of a blu ray disc. -25 points for a completely ignorant notion.

DrTrafalgarLaw

So the next xbox will still use DVD's? You seem to be fine with DVD's :lol:DrTrafalgarLaw

LOL, Lemmings are like, "DVD 4 LIFE"!!

[QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]i don't care about profitablilty i care about performance.

ps3 games require manditory installs which means ps3 games could have been on cassette tapes for all the difference it makes.

mems_1224

[QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"][QUOTE="Frostbite24"]

Oh dear God. I thought there weren't anymore idiots who believed that format actually contributes to games in any meaningful way. Just another plague brought to us buy cows and their uncondiitional love of the whole in the center of a blu ray disc. -25 points for a completely ignorant notion.

Frostbite24

So, the developers are wrong, and you are right?

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"] I love this lemming logic. DVD is inherently outdated and multiplatforms have to fit the lowest common denominator, the 360. In GTA4, the devs themselves they wanted to offer additional content like tanks, jets and other stuff that couldn't fit due to the gimped 360 DVD format...as downloadable content. But they hit yet another hurdle as not all 360's had HDD's. Eventually, they scrapped multiple DLC and content due to those problems. Most JRPG's on the PS3 have support for multiple audiofiles and languages. On the 360, you'd be lucky if the audio fits on the DVD at all. How is that not an advantage for blu-ray?DrTrafalgarLaw

[QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"][QUOTE="Frostbite24"]

Oh dear God. I thought there weren't anymore idiots who believed that format actually contributes to games in any meaningful way. Just another plague brought to us buy cows and their uncondiitional love of the whole in the center of a blu ray disc. -25 points for a completely ignorant notion.

Frostbite24

I'm pretty sure people got trolled, so I have a better video that is superior than TC's:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM

TEH BESTEST SONGZ EVAR!

two dvds = bad

one blu ray = great

digital download = what? teh bestest most advanced thing ever in the history of humanity!!!

digital download makes games better!!!! :lol:

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"][QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"] So the next xbox will still use DVD's? You seem to be fine with DVD's :lol:crimsonman1245

So, the developers are wrong, and you are right?

+20 points to crimsonman1245 for being right

-100 points to Frostbite24 for being a fanboy and always being wrong.

About zero.

Fizzman

/thread

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"][QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"] So the next xbox will still use DVD's? You seem to be fine with DVD's :lol:crimsonman1245

So, the developers are wrong, and you are right?

I would say FFXIII-2 was absolutely affected by the game being multiplat, FXIII-2 looks worse on both consoles vs FFXIII on PS3.

[QUOTE="crimsonman1245"]

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"] The next Xbox and the PS3's use of Blu rays has nothing to do with gaming....-20 points for continuing to perpetuate ignorance.arkephonic

So, the developers are wrong, and you are right?

+20 points to crimsonman1245 for being right

-100 points to Frostbite24 for being a fanboy and always being wrong.

[QUOTE="crimsonman1245"]

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"] The next Xbox and the PS3's use of Blu rays has nothing to do with gaming....-20 points for continuing to perpetuate ignorance.Frostbite24

So, the developers are wrong, and you are right?

Lol, this guy...

Ever think about the fact that PC gaming revolves around DD, which is reliant on harddrives, something every PC has?

Not every 360 has a harddrive, and developers all have to take that into consideration.

-200 points for failing to see such obvious logic.

[QUOTE="crimsonman1245"]

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"] The next Xbox and the PS3's use of Blu rays has nothing to do with gaming....-20 points for continuing to perpetuate ignorance.Frostbite24

So, the developers are wrong, and you are right?

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"][QUOTE="crimsonman1245"]

So, the developers are wrong, and you are right?

arkephonic

Lol, this guy...

Ever think about the fact that PC gaming revolves around DD, which is reliant on harddrives, something every PC has?

Not every 360 has a harddrive, and developers all have to take that into consideration.

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"][QUOTE="crimsonman1245"]

So, the developers are wrong, and you are right?

arkephonic

Lol, this guy...

Ever think about the fact that PC gaming revolves around DD, which is reliant on harddrives, something every PC has?

Not every 360 has a harddrive, and developers all have to take that into consideration.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"] Yes, every single developer out there says that DVD's are insufficient to develop on :roll: How is it that PC's use DVD's and are able to produce the largest, most content rich games out there? +10 points if you actually use your brain.Frostbite24

Lol, this guy...

Ever think about the fact that PC gaming revolves around DD, which is reliant on harddrives, something every PC has?

Not every 360 has a harddrive, and developers all have to take that into consideration.

I said PC gaming revolves around DD, which it does. When did I ever say that PC games only come from DD? -300 points for inability to understand English.

Coming to the conclusion that I don't own a gaming PC because of your inability to understand English nets you another -300 points.

Most PC-DVD retail games come on multiple discs. -300 points for not knowing that.

Sorry, you're out of points bud!