In defense of Tom McShea...

[QUOTE="vashkey"][QUOTE="Mario1331"]

so tom is the only reviewer that was right? since you know 90& of reviewers gave this game a 90 or above?

MirkoS77

It's the ad populum fallacy. I can't count how many times I've seen people do this for SS, it's ridiculous. Justin Bieber's music is extremely popular, hence it's so. :roll:

I kinda like him. I wonder how old is he.

[QUOTE="vashkey"][QUOTE="Mario1331"]

so tom is the only reviewer that was right? since you know 90& of reviewers gave this game a 90 or above?

MirkoS77

It's the ad populum fallacy. I can't count how many times I've seen people do this for SS, it's ridiculous. Justin Bieber's music is extremely popular, hence it's so. :roll:

Allow me to explain the problem with Toms review, given this perfect opportunity with Justin Bieber brought into discussion. Do I care for Justin Bieber and his producers music? No. Is it bad music? No. In fact, Justin Bieber has far more musical talent than Kanye West. The kid can actually sing and his producers utilize these talents. The music itself, while I don't care for it personally, is always correct and finely produced. There, an objectional take on Justin Bieber.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="vashkey"] He doesn't necessarily have to be wrong just because his score doesn't conform to the average.Heirren

It's the ad populum fallacy. I can't count how many times I've seen people do this for SS, it's ridiculous. Justin Bieber's music is extremely popular, hence it's so. :roll:

Allow me to explain the problem with Toms review, given this perfect opportunity with Justin Bieber brought into discussion. Do I care for Justin Bieber and his producers music? No. Is it bad music? No. In fact, Justin Bieber has far more musical talent than Kanye West. The kid can actually sing and his producers utilize these talents. The music itself, while I don't care for it personally, is always correct and finely produced. There, an objectional take on Justin Bieber.

Is that a joke? Kanye was a music producer long before he started rapping, and produces his own music as a rapper.

You can't compare songs like "Jesus Walks" and "Runaway" to crappy, generic pop songs like "Baby."

Justin Bieber has about as much "talent" as Britney Spears in her teen years. That's about it.

The forum has a general "pro 360" vibe.

Heirren

That is sig worthy. :lol:

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

It's the ad populum fallacy. I can't count how many times I've seen people do this for SS, it's ridiculous. Justin Bieber's music is extremely popular, hence it's so. :roll:

Tikeio

Allow me to explain the problem with Toms review, given this perfect opportunity with Justin Bieber brought into discussion. Do I care for Justin Bieber and his producers music? No. Is it bad music? No. In fact, Justin Bieber has far more musical talent than Kanye West. The kid can actually sing and his producers utilize these talents. The music itself, while I don't care for it personally, is always correct and finely produced. There, an objectional take on Justin Bieber.

Is that a joke? Kanye was a music producer long before he started rapping, and produces his own music as a rapper.

You can't compare songs like "Jesus Walks" and "Runaway" to crappy, generic pop songs like "Baby."

Justin Bieber has about as much "talent" as Britney Spears in her teen years. That's about it.

I don't care for either, personally, but I said MUSICAL talent. Britney was autotuned to death. Justin actually has pipes. There is a huge difference. I know, and also think, that Kanye has skill as a producer. The problem here is that "producing" music these days is just a few clicks on the computer. It isn't about actually creating that natural soundscape, anymore. Lyrics? Lyrics are too subject to bother offering an opinion on as they vary so much from individual to individual. If some 10 year old girl is moved by something Justin or Britney or whoever says, who am I to argue that? I can't, because proof is in the fact that people are actually moved by said performers.

[QUOTE="Tikeio"]

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

Allow me to explain the problem with Toms review, given this perfect opportunity with Justin Bieber brought into discussion. Do I care for Justin Bieber and his producers music? No. Is it bad music? No. In fact, Justin Bieber has far more musical talent than Kanye West. The kid can actually sing and his producers utilize these talents. The music itself, while I don't care for it personally, is always correct and finely produced. There, an objectional take on Justin Bieber.

Heirren

Is that a joke? Kanye was a music producer long before he started rapping, and produces his own music as a rapper.

You can't compare songs like "Jesus Walks" and "Runaway" to crappy, generic pop songs like "Baby."

Justin Bieber has about as much "talent" as Britney Spears in her teen years. That's about it.

I don't care for either, personally, but I said MUSICAL talent. Britney was autotuned to death. Justin actually has pipes. There is a huge difference. I know, and also think, that Kanye has skill as a producer. The problem here is that "producing" music these days is just a few clicks on the computer. It isn't about actually creating that natural soundscape, anymore. Lyrics? Lyrics are too subject to bother offering an opinion on as they vary so much from individual to individual. If some 10 year old girl is moved by something Justin or Britney or whoever says, who am I to argue that? I can't, because proof is in the fact that people are actually moved by said performers.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="Tikeio"]

Is that a joke? Kanye was a music producer long before he started rapping, and produces his own music as a rapper.

You can't compare songs like "Jesus Walks" and "Runaway" to crappy, generic pop songs like "Baby."

Justin Bieber has about as much "talent" as Britney Spears in her teen years. That's about it.

After_Math

I don't care for either, personally, but I said MUSICAL talent. Britney was autotuned to death. Justin actually has pipes. There is a huge difference. I know, and also think, that Kanye has skill as a producer. The problem here is that "producing" music these days is just a few clicks on the computer. It isn't about actually creating that natural soundscape, anymore. Lyrics? Lyrics are too subject to bother offering an opinion on as they vary so much from individual to individual. If some 10 year old girl is moved by something Justin or Britney or whoever says, who am I to argue that? I can't, because proof is in the fact that people are actually moved by said performers.

What you just said is more agreeing with me than disagreeing.

After this, no one in this board is ever allowed to say that they don't care about review scores, otherwise you wouldn't be butthutt and pissing and moaning like this. Why can't you just enjoy the game and not care about what it got on here? It's not hard. It's quite simple, actually.drinkerofjuice

If trolls are allowed to bash games solely off of his reviews why can't posters bash his reviews too?

[QUOTE="drinkerofjuice"]After this, no one in this board is ever allowed to say that they don't care about review scores, otherwise you wouldn't be butthutt and pissing and moaning like this. Why can't you just enjoy the game and not care about what it got on here? It's not hard. It's quite simple, actually.Bigboi500

If trolls are allowed to bash games solely off of his reviews why can't posters bash his reviews too?

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="vashkey"] He doesn't necessarily have to be wrong just because his score doesn't conform to the average.Heirren

It's the ad populum fallacy. I can't count how many times I've seen people do this for SS, it's ridiculous. Justin Bieber's music is extremely popular, hence it's so. :roll:

Allow me to explain the problem with Toms review, given this perfect opportunity with Justin Bieber brought into discussion. Do I care for Justin Bieber and his producers music? No. Is it bad music? No. In fact, Justin Bieber has far more musical talent than Kanye West. The kid can actually sing and his producers utilize these talents. The music itself, while I don't care for it personally, is always correct and finely produced. There, an objectional take on Justin Bieber.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="drinkerofjuice"]After this, no one in this board is ever allowed to say that they don't care about review scores, otherwise you wouldn't be butthutt and pissing and moaning like this. Why can't you just enjoy the game and not care about what it got on here? It's not hard. It's quite simple, actually.Bread_or_Decide

If trolls are allowed to bash games solely off of his reviews why can't posters bash his reviews too?

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="drinkerofjuice"]After this, no one in this board is ever allowed to say that they don't care about review scores, otherwise you wouldn't be butthutt and pissing and moaning like this. Why can't you just enjoy the game and not care about what it got on here? It's not hard. It's quite simple, actually.Bread_or_Decide

If trolls are allowed to bash games solely off of his reviews why can't posters bash his reviews too?

That has NOTHING to do with what he is talking about.

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]It's not that we care about review scores, we just care about professionalism. Some of us feel like he might not be a very good gamer in some genres with the petty complaints about Infamous 2 and not being able to understand and perform the controls properly in Skyward Sword, and then penalizing them for his own inadequacies.

If trolls are allowed to bash games solely off of his reviews why can't posters bash his reviews too?

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]It's not that we care about review scores, we just care about professionalism. Some of us feel like he might not be a very good gamer in some genres with the petty complaints about Infamous 2 and not being able to understand and perform the controls properly in Skyward Sword, and then penalizing them for his own inadequacies.

If trolls are allowed to bash games solely off of his reviews why can't posters bash his reviews too?

Heirren

That has NOTHING to do with what he is talking about.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] Professionalism...because video games are serious business folks. Bread_or_Decide

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] Professionalism...because video games are serious business folks. Bread_or_Decide

That has NOTHING to do with what he is talking about.

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="Heirren"]

That has NOTHING to do with what he is talking about.

Bigboi500

There is the first amendment...

There is the first amendment...

RandomWinner

Maybe we'll all come to respect his opinion because I know how many of us wish someone had the balls to give GTA4 a 7.5 because most people can agree it was a step back for the franchise.

RandomWinner

At this point it seems gamespot is trying to save face.

[QUOTE="RandomWinner"]

There is the first amendment...

Bigboi500

Freedom of the press. He's technically reporting no?

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="RandomWinner"]

There is the first amendment...

RandomWinner

Freedom of the press. He's technically reporting no?

Inaccurately, yes. To my knowledge he did not report how the controls worked. Instead, he reported to us how he got frustrated because they weren't to his liking. It is fine by me if one does not like something, but please report it as accurately as possible. Please take no further what I'm about to bring up, as it is just a means to compare. If I want somebody to tell me what is going on down at some Occupy Wallstreet joint, I want to know what is going on, and not the reporters opinion on which side is right/wrong. Contrary to belief, which seems to be popular on this forum, there IS a lot of objectivity when reviewing a product.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] Professionalism...because video games are serious business folks. Bread_or_Decide

[QUOTE="Heirren"]The forum has a general "pro 360" vibe.

Stevo_the_gamer

That is sig worthy. :lol:

Seriously. Cows run rampant here. Every thread seems to have 3 cows for every Lem or Hermit who posts.

[QUOTE="RandomWinner"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Freedom of speech...just watch what you say.

Heirren

Freedom of the press. He's technically reporting no?

Inaccurately, yes. To my knowledge he did not report how the controls worked. Instead, he reported to us how he got frustrated because they weren't to his liking. It is fine by me if one does not like something, but please report it as accurately as possible. Please take no further what I'm about to bring up, as it is just a means to compare. If I want somebody to tell me what is going on down at some Occupy Wallstreet joint, I want to know what is going on, and not the reporters opinion on which side is right/wrong. Contrary to belief, which seems to be popular on this forum, there IS a lot of objectivity when reviewing a product.

I actually completely agree with you.

Yeah, I still can't believe how so many people can lose so much sleep over a damn REVIEW SCORE.

Inaccurately, yes. To my knowledge he did not report how the controls worked. Instead, he reported to us how he got frustrated because they weren't to his liking. It is fine by me if one does not like something, but please report it as accurately as possible. Please take no further what I'm about to bring up, as it is just a means to compare. If I want somebody to tell me what is going on down at some Occupy Wallstreet joint, I want to know what is going on, and not the reporters opinion on which side is right/wrong. Contrary to belief, which seems to be popular on this forum, there IS a lot of objectivity when reviewing a product.

Heirren

Yeah, I still can't believe how so many people can lose so much sleep over a damn REVIEW SCORE.

DraugenCP

GTA IV is probably an 8.0 to an 8.5 IMO. So yeah I sorta agree.

Now as for Skyward Sword, I think a 7.5 is harsh, but being 100% honest, so far with my playtime (over 10 hours) and just arriving at the third area, I do not see how this game received so many perfect scores. I am enjoying it, and maybe it gets better, or I have not done enough of the things that make it so great, but it is a bit dissapointing. I am hoping it gets better, cause right now, I think it is probably the worst 3D Zelda. It pains me to say that!

I disagree with Zelda SS scoring a 7.5, but at least he was able to form his own opinion on the matter. There are a lot users on the site who lack that ability

GTA IV is probably an 8.0 to an 8.5 IMO. So yeah I sorta agree.

Now as for Skyward Sword, I think a 7.5 is harsh, but being 100% honest, so far with my playtime (over 10 hours) and just arriving at the third area, I do not see how this game received so many perfect scores. I am enjoying it, and maybe it gets better, or I have not done enough of the things that make it so great, but it is a bit dissapointing. I am hoping it gets better, cause right now, I think it is probably the worst 3D Zelda. It pains me to say that!

NaveedLife

According to alot of people it gets better half way through

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

GTA IV is probably an 8.0 to an 8.5 IMO. So yeah I sorta agree.

Now as for Skyward Sword, I think a 7.5 is harsh, but being 100% honest, so far with my playtime (over 10 hours) and just arriving at the third area, I do not see how this game received so many perfect scores. I am enjoying it, and maybe it gets better, or I have not done enough of the things that make it so great, but it is a bit dissapointing. I am hoping it gets better, cause right now, I think it is probably the worst 3D Zelda. It pains me to say that!

EPaul

According to alot of people it gets better half way through

Good to hear. It does a lot of things really well, and adds some welcome new additions, although there are some things I just cant get past right now. Hopefully these things get better and the game blows me away. I mean I dont even have the means to make music yet :P.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

Inaccurately, yes. To my knowledge he did not report how the controls worked. Instead, he reported to us how he got frustrated because they weren't to his liking. It is fine by me if one does not like something, but please report it as accurately as possible. Please take no further what I'm about to bring up, as it is just a means to compare. If I want somebody to tell me what is going on down at some Occupy Wallstreet joint, I want to know what is going on, and not the reporters opinion on which side is right/wrong. Contrary to belief, which seems to be popular on this forum, there IS a lot of objectivity when reviewing a product.

skrat_01

No, you're wrong here. Games run on engines. While I do like to hear ones own taste in a given review, there is the analysis aspect that goes along with that. I think you misunderstood my point, perhaps. Here's another; send a 13 year old boy to see a film made for an 8-12 year old girl. The review will be this, "it stunk. It was horrible. etc." Send a film critic--one that can approach it in an objective nature, and the result will be different. It is the critics job to separate the parts and describe the positives/negatives of the craft involved and why he/she thinks it works. There's always variables involved, but there is certainly objectivity involved in reviews.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="Heirren"]

Inaccurately, yes. To my knowledge he did not report how the controls worked. Instead, he reported to us how he got frustrated because they weren't to his liking. It is fine by me if one does not like something, but please report it as accurately as possible. Please take no further what I'm about to bring up, as it is just a means to compare. If I want somebody to tell me what is going on down at some Occupy Wallstreet joint, I want to know what is going on, and not the reporters opinion on which side is right/wrong. Contrary to belief, which seems to be popular on this forum, there IS a lot of objectivity when reviewing a product.

Heirren

No, you're wrong here. Games run on engines. While I do like to hear ones own taste in a given review, there is the analysis aspect that goes along with that. I think you misunderstood my point, perhaps. Here's another; send a 13 year old boy to see a film made for an 8-12 year old girl. The review will be this, "it stunk. It was horrible. etc." Send a film critic--one that can approach it in an objective nature, and the result will be different. It is the critics job to separate the parts and describe the positives/negatives of the craft involved and why he/she thinks it works. There's always variables involved, but there is certainly objectivity involved in reviews.

Can we get him to review a COD game? That would make my day...

And films are filmed by cameras, and edited extensively? The artist has tools, the tools are not the sum of the piece. That's a baaaad argument. A critics thoughts is their opinion, what counts is how strong their reasoning is, their perspective, and how they articulate themselves.skrat_01

Do you mind elaborating on that? I'm not sure I read into it correctly. Films are filmed by cameras and edited extensively? There's a craft involved in all of that stuff--which factors into a review. A critic has knowledge of the subject matter at hand, and communicate that through their critique of said subject.

***I feel we may be venturing off topic a tad, but as I've said, there IS some opinion/personal taste involved, but this still should be separated in a given review.

Can we get him to review a COD game? That would make my day...

NYrockinlegend

[QUOTE="NYrockinlegend"]

Can we get him to review a COD game? That would make my day...

Miroku32

Unless of course it was COD:Native Americans are at War with Ants.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]And films are filmed by cameras, and edited extensively? The artist has tools, the tools are not the sum of the piece. That's a baaaad argument. A critics thoughts is their opinion, what counts is how strong their reasoning is, their perspective, and how they articulate themselves.Heirren

Do you mind elaborating on that? I'm not sure I read into it correctly. Films are filmed by cameras and edited extensively? There's a craft involved in all of that stuff--which factors into a review. A critic has knowledge of the subject matter at hand, and communicate that through their critique of said subject.

***I feel we may be venturing off topic a tad, but as I've said, there IS some opinion/personal taste involved, but this still should be separated in a given review.

[QUOTE="Mario1331"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Untrue, cows are just only the minority in the sw community. Must cows here only own a ps3 while the others tend to own multiple systems(and all of the seem to hate the ps3).

edo-tensei

whose the biggest faction then if not cows? sheep ar non existant and lemmings seem to not have a lot of numbers either