Insomniac needs to shut their mouth.

Surely Ratchet & Clank was the first game to feature spherical worlds

oh...****...

wait...I saw something else...

OMG YOU JUMP IN RATCHET AND CLANK TOO. STOP BEING SO UNORIGINAL NINTENDO.

i reaize they didnt mean anything bad by it but still to say that Super Mario Galaxy is borrowing anything from another platformer is just balsey when it was Myamoto-san who made 3D platforming what it is todaySerraph105

Except that the brains over at Nintendo probably don't even know who Insomniac is. Just because Galaxy has spherical worlds in it doesn't mean that they have played a R&C game to have even had the idea in their minds. In fact, as I recall they've been thinking about GALAXY since MARIO 64. :|

Hmmm...

Redmoonxl2

damn u guys complain like little girls. what are you gonna do? fight him? you guys gonna fight insomnaics? I think you guys need to stop tying.

Ratch and clank for the ps2 go a 9.0

R&C Up arsenal for 8.7

going commando got a 8.8

Deadlock got a 8.6

So we can predict the new R&C should get between 8.5 and 9.0.

Ratchet will get a 7.5.

Quote me on this.

Xbox360Fanboy12

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="FlawlessSeasons"]

There's evidence all around us I think, of certain games that have borrowed from Ratchet and Clank. One that we're even extremely flattered by is Super Mario Galaxy, with their spherical worlds; we did spherical worlds in Going Commando, and Up Your Arsenal. It would be amazing to think that Miyamoto-san thought that was so cool that he wanted to incorporate it into Mario Galaxy. Granted, he's doing it in a different way, but it's still a spherical world, so it's flattering to see those sorts of things.

SO STUPID. No... just no. You know what I got to say from that? They borrowed from Super Mario 64 and it's whole 3D thing.

Wanderer5

YOu know what I think is stupid? Your arguement that Mario Galazy didn't borrow from Ratchet and CLank based on no reason other than Nintendo made the first 3D platformer? That's like saying my neighbour didn't steal my idea for which car to buy because I planted trees after he did.

Insomniac is telling the truth. Ratchet and Clank did the small, spherical world thing first. Get over it.

That doesn't seem to be R&C.

Not 3d, so technically not a sphere. That's a circle.

Because so many games before R&C Going Commando had spherical worlds you could run around.-Sora

I find this very confusing because in the same interview they said the were not the first to use those worlds.

What gives ??

Except that the brains over at Nintendo probably don't even know who Insomniac is. Dreams-Visions

lol

I highly doubt that the guys at Nintendo working on Mario even thought about any Insomniac game when looking for inspiration...

[QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"]

Hmmm...

DaysAirlines

Yes I'm glad to see people saw what I said back on page 11 :P

[QUOTE="Wanderer5"]

That doesn't seem to be R&C.

ZIMdoom

Not 3d, so technically not a sphere. That's a circle.

You're just nitpicking.

Anything to save face, am I right?

[QUOTE="DaysAirlines"][QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"]

Hmmm...

Blackbond

Yes I'm glad to see people saw what I said back on page 11 :P

Page 11 of?

[QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"][QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

Going Commando is not the first game with tiny spherical worlds.

The way those worlds are implemented, however, is far more similar to how Super Mario Galaxy handles them than any other version of the small spherical world concept.

Sure, Insomniac is making an assumption here (though they certainly aren't bashing Nintendo, as some claim). But is it really that hard to believe that Nintendo may have been somewhat inspired or influenced by Ratchet and Clank?

sonicmj1

I'd say that any good developer looks at what the competition is doing and draw from those examples, good or bad. However, to say that a game concept like SMG's focus on gravity and small planets wouldn't have came to be without R&C is a bit reaching.

Exactly. Plus there's evidence that proves how it didn't diverted from R&C...

Well, that definitely confirms that Nintendo wasn't thinking much about R&C when they came up with Mario Galaxy. Even if they were, they're taking the concept much farther than Insomniac ventured.

But I can't blame the designer for thinking that there was a relation. He hasn't read all those interviews and stuff.

And we aren't blaming Insomniac ignorance, but we are blaming the ignorant fanboys claiming otherwise.

Who cares? Mario Galaxy is going to be the better game anyways. ImError88

You're just nitpicking.

Anything to save face, am I right?

Redmoonxl2

The arguement is that Insomniac should "shut their mouth" because they claim that perhaps Nintendo "borrowed" the idea of spherical worlds from them.

Once you filter out the typical fanboy ignorance, gnashing of teeth, and completely irrational anger, we come to your post. A game where Yoshi walks on a CIRCULAR WORLD. Ratchet and Clank is the first game to move it into 3D and therefore they should get the credit for creating SPHERICAL worlds. I can't help it if fanboys don't knowtheir geometry.

Prove me wrong and I will openly admit it. With the ignorance and ridiculousness that runs rampant on this forum on a regular basis...I'm notconcerned atALLabout trying to save face. I have no stake in this debate. I really don't care. I just post to point out facts when people start actingignorance and irrational.

[QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"]

You're just nitpicking.

Anything to save face, am I right?

ZIMdoom

The arguement is that Insomniac should "shut their mouth" because they claim that perhaps Nintendo "borrowed" the idea of spherical worldsfrom them.

Once you filter out the typical fanboy ignorance, gnashing of teeth, and completely irrational anger, we come to your post. A game where Yoshi walks on a CIRCULAR WORLD. Ratchet and Clank is the first game to move it into 3D and therefore they should get the credit for creating SPHERICAL worlds. I can't help it if fanboys don't knowtheir geometry.

Prove me wrong and I will openly admit it. With the ignorance and ridiculousness that runs rampant on this forum on a regular basis...I'm notconcerned atALLabout trying to save face. I have no stake in this debate. I really don't care. I just post to point out facts when people start actingignorance and irrational.

Yes, Nintendo come up with it first.

[QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"]

You're just nitpicking.

Anything to save face, am I right?

ZIMdoom

The arguement is that Insomniac should "shut their mouth" because they claim that perhaps Nintendo "borrowed" the idea of spherical worlds from them.

Once you filter out the typical fanboy ignorance, gnashing of teeth, and completely irrational anger, we come to your post. A game where Yoshi walks on a CIRCULAR WORLD. Ratchet and Clank is the first game to move it into 3D and therefore they should get the credit for creating SPHERICAL worlds. I can't help it if fanboys don't knowtheir geometry.

Prove me wrong and I will openly admit it. With the ignorance and ridiculousness that runs rampant on this forum on a regular basis...I'm notconcerned atALLabout trying to save face. I have no stake in this debate. I really don't care. I just post to point out facts when people start actingignorance and irrational.

Again, I will state that you are nitpicking because of the simple following reason: The Raphael the Raven boss fight on concept takes place on a spherical world, not a circular/cylinder object similar to a wheel. The end result of the execution was a circle because of the (Get this...) technological limitations of the SNES at the time. Just because R&C was the "first" developer to bring it to 3D (Which they weren't. Hell, Sonic got to that before Insomniac) doesn't mean they were the first to have similar ideas for use in game design.

Insomniac deserves no credit for anything closely related to spherical worlds in game design outside a very well executed implementation within one of their games.

[QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"]

You're just nitpicking.

Anything to save face, am I right?

ZIMdoom

The arguement is that Insomniac should "shut their mouth" because they claim that perhaps Nintendo "borrowed" the idea of spherical worlds from them.

Once you filter out the typical fanboy ignorance, gnashing of teeth, and completely irrational anger, we come to your post. A game where Yoshi walks on a CIRCULAR WORLD. Ratchet and Clank is the first game to move it into 3D and therefore they should get the credit for creating SPHERICAL worlds. I can't help it if fanboys don't knowtheir geometry.

Prove me wrong and I will openly admit it. With the ignorance and ridiculousness that runs rampant on this forum on a regular basis...I'm notconcerned atALLabout trying to save face. I have no stake in this debate. I really don't care. I just post to point out facts when people start actingignorance and irrational.

Can you read?

"Satoru Iwata: So first, let's talk about how this project came about.



Koizumi: We have to go back to the year 2000, when the GameCube was first announced. We showed the Mario 128 demo, and I was the Director of that. I really wanted to use the Mario 128 system in a real game, but I was thinking that maybe it wouldn't actually be possible to do so.



Satoru Iwata: Why did you think it wouldn't be possible?



Koizumi: The problem was a technical one. At the time of Mario 128, we effectively had Mario walking on a saucer, but to get him moving around a spherical object demanded a really great deal of skill. I was thinking that, unless the staff's motivation was extremely high, we wouldn't be able to get past this obstacle to development.



Satoru Iwata:Regarding the use of spheres in a Mario game, by the way, I remember hearing from Miyamoto about this concept ten years ago, but I couldn't understand how the development of spherical play areas could be a revolutionary technique. But that's precisely how Mario Galaxy has turned out, and at last I fully understand the significance of the concept."

Hmmm...

Redmoonxl2

thats 2d. RC was first to do it in 3d.

thats 2d. RC was first to do it in 3d.Soulja_West

The first Ratchet and Clank game was created in 2002 I believe. If anything, they ripped off Nintendo when they showed that tech demo.

[QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"]

Hmmm...

Soulja_West

thats 2d. RC was first to do it in 3d.

*cough*

1. The debate is not about 2D or 3D, the debate is who came out with the concept of small, spherical planets within game design first. Nintendo wins.
2. Sonic 3 did it in 3D before Insomniac, FYI.

[QUOTE="Soulja_West"]thats 2d. RC was first to do it in 3d.Forza_2

The first Ratchet and Clank game was created in 2002 I believe. If anything, they ripped off Nintendo when they showed that tech demo.

Thats still doesn't change the fact thatRc was the fist to do it in 3d.

[QUOTE="Forza_2"]

[QUOTE="Soulja_West"]thats 2d. RC was first to do it in 3d.Soulja_West

The first Ratchet and Clank game was created in 2002 I believe. If anything, they ripped off Nintendo when they showed that tech demo.

Thats still doesn't change the fact thatRc was the fist to do it in 3d.

Actually it does if Nintendo publically shown a demo with characters interacting in spherical worlds before R&C released their first game. The burden of proof would be on Insomniac to present evidence predating the tech demo that proves they were the first to think up spherical worlds in game design.

I am not going to read through all of theses posts but I did read quite a few of them.

To all of you who are upset by what the insomniac guy said you all need to learn how to read or just stop being a fanboy for two seconds. He said that if Miyamoto did copy them it was flattering. He was not insulting him.

You guys make me sick

*cough*

1. The debate is not about 2D or 3D, the debate is who came out with the concept of small, spherical planets within game design first. Nintendo wins.
2. Sonic 3 did it in 3D before Insomniac, FYI.

Redmoonxl2

1) A sphere, by definition, is a 3D object.

2) I would argue that Sonic 3 was not really 3D but a 2D effect made to appear 3d. But I will admit that could be considered nitpicking.

[

Can you read?

"Satoru Iwata: So first, let's talk about how this project came about.

Koizumi: We have to go back to the year 2000, when the GameCube was first announced. We showed the Mario 128 demo, and I was the Director of that. I really wanted to use the Mario 128 system in a real game, but I was thinking that maybe it wouldn't actually be possible to do so.

Satoru Iwata: Why did you think it wouldn't be possible?

Koizumi: The problem was a technical one. At the time of Mario 128, we effectively had Mario walking on a saucer, but to get him moving around a spherical object demanded a really great deal of skill. I was thinking that, unless the staff's motivation was extremely high, we wouldn't be able to get past this obstacle to development.

Satoru Iwata:Regarding the use of spheres in a Mario game, by the way, I remember hearing from Miyamoto about this concept ten years ago, but I couldn't understand how the development of spherical play areas could be a revolutionary technique. But that's precisely how Mario Galaxy has turned out, and at last I fully understand the significance of the concept."

SER69

I don't remember the Mario 128 demo so you may have a point.

However, as for the part you made huge and bold, you can't honestly think somebody remembering somebody else talking about an idea as being equal to creating that idea. 15 years ago I said it would be cool to have something that could play music off of a disc similar to a computer with a HDD. Does that mean I can now take credit for creating the Ipod? Of course not. Ideas are meaningless. What matters is who makes the idea reality.

Again, I will state that you are nitpicking because of the simple following reason: The Raphael the Raven boss fight on concept takes place on a spherical world, not a circular/cylinder object similar to a wheel. The end result of the execution was a circle because of the (Get this...) technological limitations of the SNES at the time. Just because R&C was the "first" developer to bring it to 3D (Which they weren't. Hell, Sonic got to that before Insomniac) doesn't mean they were the first to have similar ideas for use in game design.

Insomniac deserves no credit for anything closely related to spherical worlds in game design outside a very well executed implementation within one of their games.

Redmoonxl2

TEchnological limitations? I hope you were laughing as you wrote that pseudo-philosophical garbage. If THAT is the standard you want to apply then whoever invented chess can now take credit for Gears of War because chess is a war game...it's not their fault technology wasn't up to par.

1) A sphere, by definition, is a 3D object.

ZIMdoom

And the sphere in the Raphael the Raven boss fight was a sphere with the action taking place in 2D frame. By your inability to just give in to that simple fact that the boss fight, in concept, takes place on a sphere, I guess you would consider the moon in the following picture a circle as well, correct?

Even looking at it from Earth, it looks like a circle, correct? Doesn't mean it is (Keyword) a circle.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="DaysAirlines"][QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"]

Hmmm...

Redmoonxl2

Yes I'm glad to see people saw what I said back on page 11 :P

Page 11 of?

This thread. That is when I mentioned Raphael The Raven lol

[QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"]

Again, I will state that you are nitpicking because of the simple following reason: The Raphael the Raven boss fight on concept takes place on a spherical world, not a circular/cylinder object similar to a wheel. The end result of the execution was a circle because of the (Get this...) technological limitations of the SNES at the time. Just because R&C was the "first" developer to bring it to 3D (Which they weren't. Hell, Sonic got to that before Insomniac) doesn't mean they were the first to have similar ideas for use in game design.

Insomniac deserves no credit for anything closely related to spherical worlds in game design outside a very well executed implementation within one of their games.

ZIMdoom

TEchnological limitations? I hope you were laughing as you wrote that pseudo-philosophical garbage. If THAT is the standard you want to apply then whoever invented chess can now take credit for Gears of War because chess is a war game...it's not their fault technology wasn't up to par.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that the SNES was capable of puting out full 3D polygonal graphics that allowed the freedom to display the Raphael the Raven boss fight in 3D. My mistake (idiot).

Also, why in the hell would chess take credit for Gears of War when they are two completely different mediums of games? Now I'm curious to know if you're going to compare sport games with actual sports.

[QUOTE="Forza_2"]

[QUOTE="Soulja_West"]thats 2d. RC was first to do it in 3d.Soulja_West

The first Ratchet and Clank game was created in 2002 I believe. If anything, they ripped off Nintendo when they showed that tech demo.

Thats still doesn't change the fact thatRc was the fist to do it in 3d.

This isn't about who was the first to do it in 3d, it's about who come up with the idea first. insomniac say Nintendo took the idea from their R & C game.. they failed at life miserably.

There's evidence all around us I think, of certain games that have borrowed from Ratchet and Clank. One that we're even extremely flattered by is Super Mario Galaxy, with their spherical worlds; we did spherical worlds in Going Commando, and Up Your Arsenal. It would be amazing to think that Miyamoto-san thought that was so cool that he wanted to incorporate it into Mario Galaxy. Granted, he's doing it in a different way, but it's still a spherical world, so it's flattering to see those sorts of things.

SO STUPID. No... just no. You know what I got to say from that? They borrowed from Super Mario 64 and it's whole 3D thing.

FlawlessSeasons

No, Insomniac are completely right, I mean apart from Flop and Wiki, when was the last time they thought of a good, NEW franchise that wasn't stolen from somewhere else? Arond the time of Metroid, I think.

Insomniac did it first, and they are the masters of all things platforming.

[QUOTE="SER69"][

Can you read?

"Satoru Iwata: So first, let's talk about how this project came about.

Koizumi: We have to go back to the year 2000, when the GameCube was first announced. We showed the Mario 128 demo, and I was the Director of that. I really wanted to use the Mario 128 system in a real game, but I was thinking that maybe it wouldn't actually be possible to do so.

Satoru Iwata: Why did you think it wouldn't be possible?

Koizumi: The problem was a technical one. At the time of Mario 128, we effectively had Mario walking on a saucer, but to get him moving around a spherical object demanded a really great deal of skill. I was thinking that, unless the staff's motivation was extremely high, we wouldn't be able to get past this obstacle to development.

Satoru Iwata:Regarding the use of spheres in a Mario game, by the way, I remember hearing from Miyamoto about this concept ten years ago, but I couldn't understand how the development of spherical play areas could be a revolutionary technique. But that's precisely how Mario Galaxy has turned out, and at last I fully understand the significance of the concept."

ZIMdoom

I don't remember the Mario 128 demo so you may have a point.

However, as for the part you made huge and bold, you can't honestly think somebody remembering somebody else talking about an idea as being equal to creating that idea. 15 years ago I said it would be cool to have something that could play music off of a disc similar to a computer with a HDD. Does that mean I can now take credit for creating the Ipod? Of course not. Ideas are meaningless. What matters is who makes the idea reality.

But the thing is, we are not arguing who did it first, but if the whole idea/concept diverted from R&C; and the evidence points out that it clearly didnt. The whole Insomniac claim is wishfull thinking, period.

Everyone is nitpicking now. The bottom line is Nintendo probably didn't use anything Insomniac related as their inspiration. They've been thinking about Galaxy for years. Insomniac *assumed* they were the first to work on this idea...they were very wong.

Not a big deal. Move along.

Not exactly a perfect Sphere but like I said between this, Yoshi's Island, and Sonice The Hedgehog the concept has been done before.

ok..thats just dumb.the spherical worlds of r&c were cool but for insomniac actually said they think it was stolen they are dumbiLikeTheWoods

No, they said "borrowed". And they didn't even directly accuse Nintendo of borrowing but admitted that they think it would be cool if NIntendo saw their game and liked it so much to borrow it.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

1) A sphere, by definition, is a 3D object.

Redmoonxl2

And the sphere in the Raphael the Raven boss fight was a sphere with the action taking place in 2D frame. By your inability to just give in to that simple fact that the boss fight, in concept, takes place on a sphere, I guess you would consider the moon in the following picture a circle as well, correct?

Even looking at it from Earth, it looks like a circle, correct? Doesn't mean it is (Keyword) a circle.

Dude, now you are just insulting my intelligence. Or, you are deliberately being ignorant just to get on my nerves.

If you can't tell the difference between a picture of the moon, and the REAL MOON, then you have bigger issues than your issue with Insomniac. I'm not about to explain the difference for you.

[QUOTE="iLikeTheWoods"]ok..thats just dumb.the spherical worlds of r&c were cool but for insomniac actually said they think it was stolen they are dumbZIMdoom

No, they said "borrowed". And they didn't even directly accuse Nintendo of borrowing but admitted that they think it would be cool if NIntendo saw their game and liked it so much to borrow it.

And they were wrong.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="iLikeTheWoods"]ok..thats just dumb.the spherical worlds of r&c were cool but for insomniac actually said they think it was stolen they are dumbSER69

No, they said "borrowed". And they didn't even directly accuse Nintendo of borrowing but admitted that they think it would be cool if NIntendo saw their game and liked it so much to borrow it.

And they were wrong.

Probably been mentioned, but anyone remember the bonus stages from Sonic 3? Where you had to get all the blue orbs while avoiding the red, while running on the spherical world...

[QUOTE="FlawlessSeasons"]

There's evidence all around us I think, of certain games that have borrowed from Ratchet and Clank. One that we're even extremely flattered by is Super Mario Galaxy, with their spherical worlds; we did spherical worlds in Going Commando, and Up Your Arsenal. It would be amazing to think that Miyamoto-san thought that was so cool that he wanted to incorporate it into Mario Galaxy. Granted, he's doing it in a different way, but it's still a spherical world, so it's flattering to see those sorts of things.

SO STUPID. No... just no. You know what I got to say from that? They borrowed from Super Mario 64 and it's whole 3D thing.

ShmenonPie

No, Insomniac are completely right, I mean apart from Flop and Wiki, when was the last time they thought of a good, NEW franchise that wasn't stolen from somewhere else? Arond the time of Metroid, I think.

Insomniac did it first, and they are the masters of all things platforming.

:lol:

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

1) A sphere, by definition, is a 3D object.

Redmoonxl2

And the sphere in the Raphael the Raven boss fight was a sphere with the action taking place in 2D frame. By your inability to just give in to that simple fact that the boss fight, in concept, takes place on a sphere, I guess you would consider the moon in the following picture a circle as well, correct?

Even looking at it from Earth, it looks like a circle, correct? Doesn't mean it is (Keyword) a circle.

That picture of the moon is a circle, for the picture is 2-D.

Some ridiculous replies have been written in this thread. I don't need to repeat what other posters defending Insomniac have said, but there is no need to attack Insomniac with Nintendo 'elitism'. Insomniac make great games, and it's hard to deny that if you've actually played them. ferretzor

No one is attacking Insomniac games.... they are great. The claim that SMG is based off of R&C is what we are proving IS wrong and all wishfull thinking from their part.