Is Mass Effect 2 the greatsest RPG of all time?

This is a fact on polish, but this is a problem with the engine, Bethesda created such a horrid engine, its only benefits are its modability. 110million

ME2 fails as a shooter as well. Sorry, but corridor -> room of half walls -> corridor all the while ducking and waiting for shield recharge is incrediblly dull.

ME2 has polish, that is it.

Fail story

Fail music compared to ME1

Fail shooting mechanics (ducking behind walls)

Fail immersion

Fail loading screens

Fail RPG mechanics

Fail fail fail, its sad. As a game its not bad, but as a PC gamer who likes RPGs ... I hated it for their entire design philosophy of "less is more" and "keep it simple"

[...] but it's polish is abysmal compared to ME2.Heil68

Best RPG? Can't say there is one.siLVURcross

Then there is comparing them between sub-genres, action, strategy, rogue like, dungeon crawler, its hard enough to compare RPGs amongst sub-genres, much less overall.

ME2 fails as a shooter as well. Sorry, but corridor -> room of half walls -> corridor all the while ducking and waiting for shield recharge is incrediblly dull.

ME2 has polish, that is it.

Fail story

Fail music compared to ME1

Fail shooting mechanics (ducking behind walls)

Fail immersion

Fail loading screens

Fail RPG mechanics

Fail fail fail, its sad. As a game its not bad, but as a PC gamer who likes RPGs ... I hated it for their entire design philosophy of "less is more" and "keep it simple"

haberman13

While I can see why a lot of people like it I will have to respectfully disagree. I absolutely HATED Mass Effect 2 and ever since playing it, I never want to play anything made by Bioware again. Least favorite game this year. Third least favorite this gen, beaten only by Dragon Age Origins and League of Legends.

My favorite computer roleplaying game is Vampires of the Masquerade. My most enjoyed is Dungeons and Dragons, but my friends dont have time for that anymore.

With that said, it is a well made game and has its production values, it is just not for me.

Then i must of made different choices, relationships then you because my choices mad HUGE differences in the games.It was some of the most moving and inspirational gaming that I have ever played. Heil68

No, greatest *RPG*. I clearly state that in the OP and it's defined as an RPG by the developer and the game community as a whole. Heil68

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

ME2 fails as a shooter as well. Sorry, but corridor -> room of half walls -> corridor all the while ducking and waiting for shield recharge is incrediblly dull.

ME2 has polish, that is it.

Fail story

Fail music compared to ME1

Fail shooting mechanics (ducking behind walls)

Fail immersion

Fail loading screens

Fail RPG mechanics

Fail fail fail, its sad. As a game its not bad, but as a PC gamer who likes RPGs ... I hated it for their entire design philosophy of "less is more" and "keep it simple"

Heil68

It reviewed well for a number of reasons... but primarily because as a console game its great, and the Brittney Spears effect is in full force (masses + money + reviews = 10.0)

PC gamers have different ideas about game design. ME2 is an abomination as an RPG, and only serves to convince a new generation that thinking is for "nerds" and shooting things in the face is the key to a good game.

Had the Gears of War devs created ME2 I would say "holy crap, amazing"... but this is Bioware, making a game gimped for the consoles.

1 button for 10 actions? WTF

No real gear to speak of? WTF

Levels with loading screens? WTF

Moronic story? WTF

Consta-ducking to recharge shields? WTF

Gimped builds? WTF

Wow Bioware, wow.

You mean, greatest shooter.siLVURcross

Their AI has never lived up to what they first touted it would be like.smerlus

[QUOTE="smerlus"]Their AI has never lived up to what they first touted it would be like.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="siLVURcross"]You mean, greatest shooter.siLVURcross

What's sad is to see people look at stats alone, talking about the "RPG elements", and not the "RPG experience". As in role playing your own identity in your character and interacting as you would, not how the game designer scripted each and evry encounter. (lookin at you FF and all JRPGs)

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="haberman13"]

ME2 fails as a shooter as well. Sorry, but corridor -> room of half walls -> corridor all the while ducking and waiting for shield recharge is incrediblly dull.

ME2 has polish, that is it.

Fail story

Fail music compared to ME1

Fail shooting mechanics (ducking behind walls)

Fail immersion

Fail loading screens

Fail RPG mechanics

Fail fail fail, its sad. As a game its not bad, but as a PC gamer who likes RPGs ... I hated it for their entire design philosophy of "less is more" and "keep it simple"

haberman13

It reviewed well for a number of reasons... but primarily because as a console game its great, and the Brittney Spears effect is in full force (masses + money + reviews = 10.0)

PC gamers have different ideas about game design. ME2 is an abomination as an RPG, and only serves to convince a new generation that thinking is for "nerds" and shooting things in the face is the key to a good game.

Had the Gears of War devs created ME2 I would say "holy crap, amazing"... but this is Bioware, making a game gimped for the consoles.

1 button for 10 actions? WTF

No real gear to speak of? WTF

Levels with loading screens? WTF

Moronic story? WTF

Consta-ducking to recharge shields? WTF

Gimped builds? WTF

Wow Bioware, wow.

I'm a console gamer and I've been questioning it alot. Stop generalizing me! :P

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"][QUOTE="Heil68"] No, greatest *RPG*. I clearly state that in the OP and it's defined as an RPG by the developer and the game community as a whole. AdobeArtist

What's sad is to see people look at stats alone, talking about the "RPG elements", and not the "RPG experience". As in role playing your own identity in your character and interacting as you would, not how the game designer scripted each and evry encounter. (lookin at you FF and all JRPGs)

Adobe, lack of stat building aside, ME2 really was a shallow RPG, especially when compared to the first one. Shepard was a far less defined character, simply an emotional crutch for his squadmates to lean. I mean seriously, Shepard dies for 2 years, and not one moment in the game is spent on Shepard reflecting on how much Shepard has missed out on or how dying affected His/Her mental state.

The Missions itself was overly linearized. Unlike the first game, "roleplaying" was overly dependent on having a high enough Paragon/Renegade meter, meaning dialogue became less about which option you would truly go with and more about which decision best rewards your playstyle.

That and a lot of your so called "major decisions" for the first game really made little difference in ME2. The Council still thinks you're insane, Garrus still decides he wants to be Space Batman, Tali gets geth material regardless, neither Anderson's or Udina's impact as a councilor is shown. Everything is told, not shown or in the case of decisions like the Rachni are given "Wait until ME3 for more."

ME2 was a fun game to play, but the actual roleplaying was incredibly limited.

foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"] Best RPG? Can't say there is one.110million

Then there is comparing them between sub-genres, action, strategy, rogue like, dungeon crawler, its hard enough to compare RPGs amongst sub-genres, much less overall.

That makes a lot of sense (although I can easily compare RPGs from different times).

Anyway, sorry you are getting ganged up on TC. I'd give my opinion but I've never played this game and don't plan on it.

Adobe even all the big choices and shaping the world was extremely linear. Mass Effect 2 got to the point on whether you're going to go with the Red or Blue Option. A lot of you're big changing decisions were given "Wait until ME3 to see more" results and others like shaping Garrus and saving the Council made absolutely no difference at allLionheart08

This red/blue option thing makes choices very gamey and unimmersive, you don't even need to read choices to know which one will lead you to "winning" a certain situation.

[QUOTE="110million"]

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"] Best RPG? Can't say there is one.darksongbird

Then there is comparing them between sub-genres, action, strategy, rogue like, dungeon crawler, its hard enough to compare RPGs amongst sub-genres, much less overall.

That makes a lot of sense (although I can easily compare RPGs from different times).

Anyway, sorry you are getting ganged up on TC. I'd give my opinion but I've never played this game and don't plan on it.

While ME2 isn't my favorite rpg, its up there. WhatI loved is thatBiowareunderstood that ME2 is a role playing GAME, and the whole purpose of games are to have fun with, and no other rpg was as fun as it. Unlike other people, i loved how Bioware focused on combat before rpg elements, because thats what made the game FUN. Only thing i didnt like was the exclusion of loot.

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"]Adobe even all the big choices and shaping the world was extremely linear. Mass Effect 2 got to the point on whether you're going to go with the Red or Blue Option. A lot of you're big changing decisions were given "Wait until ME3 to see more" results and others like shaping Garrus and saving the Council made absolutely no difference at all110million

This red/blue option thing makes choices very gamey and unimmersive, you don't even need to read choices to know which one will lead you to "winning" a certain situation.

lol, I just edited my post to rant more. :P

But yeah, the morality in ME2 sucked without a doubt. If you wanted to make the big decisions you were literally pidgeonholed into playing either a Renegade or Paragon. The first game was no where near as reliant on the system. Same with Dragon Age, having Coercion led to more options but it never felt required.

Yeah I remember reading some interviews and quotes about pre-release Oblivion, dynamic AI that would always be doing something different, you could walk through town and everyone would be discussing events and things going on, and it would always be different. What you have most often is people who stop next to each other, have the same voice actor, and discuss mudcrabs for a 4 or 5 sentences of dialog. :P

110million

What's sad is to see people look at stats alone, talking about the "RPG elements", and not the "RPG experience". As in role playing your own identity in your character and interacting as you would, not how the game designer scripted each and evry encounter. (lookin at you FF and all JRPGs)

AdobeArtist

An RPG by definition: the ability to play a role; Mass Effect 2 accomplishes this. Heil68

No, but its a fantastic game.

[QUOTE="110million"]Yeah I remember reading some interviews and quotes about pre-release Oblivion, dynamic AI that would always be doing something different, you could walk through town and everyone would be discussing events and things going on, and it would always be different. What you have most often is people who stop next to each other, have the same voice actor, and discuss mudcrabs for a 4 or 5 sentences of dialog. :P

foxhound_fox

I agree actually, I would not have changed it. Its just funny in a "What they said" and "What actually happened" sort of thing.

[QUOTE="110million"]
I honestly thought that cheese-factor fit the world perfectly for some reason. >_>

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]What's sad is to see people look at stats alone, talking about the "RPG elements", and not the "RPG experience". As in role playing your own identity in your character and interacting as you would, not how the game designer scripted each and evry encounter. (lookin at you FF and all JRPGs)

foxhound_fox

An RPG by definition: the ability to play a role; Mass Effect 2 accomplishes this. Heil68

It's a stupid semantic argument: "but it stands for ROLE playing game, and I play a role of Shepard...."

Bad logic, false argument, ignorant analysis that seeks to divide based on trivialities. No serious gamer/thinker sees ME2 as an RPG.

So I guess that makes every game ever made a RPG then?This is exactly what I am talking about when I say the RPG genre defintion is too broad and has been applied to a lot of non-RPG games over the years... and has now just stuck.foxhound_fox

as an RPG...no. its a very poor RPG. as an RPG the likes of oblivion, fallout 3, diablo 2, and borderlands are far superior and there not even the pinnacle of the genre. but ME2 is a dam fine game. i wouldnt be quite as forthcoming with praise as you TC especially on the level design front but i finished it twice and i rarely finish games. very good game and im looking forward to number 3. ...its just not a very good RPG...oddly enough.osan0

I don't know how anybody can critisize Mass Effects gameplay aspects but then say that Oblivion was better at being an RPG, mass effect had more action orientated gameplay but an unbalanced skillset and leveling system with broken scaling and lame character development is not better just because it has an inventory system. It was one of the worst RPGs ever to be created. It was a game that became more and more **** as you leveled up and it was worse if you chosen a redundant skill. Oblivion was a text book example of what not to do when creating an RPG.

Bad logic, false argument, ignorant analysis that seeks to divide based on trivialities. No serious gamer/thinker sees ME2 as an RPG.haberman13

ME1 and ME2 are my favorite games of all time

No.. Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy X and many others are much better...

No.. Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy X and many others are much better...

hd5870corei7

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oh god the meaning of 'rpg' is totally lost on this gen

I gave other valid reasons and you must not of read them or are just plain ignoring them to suit your position. Heil68

It's one of my favorites, but the greatest RPG is Dragon Age. IMO of course.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="siLVURcross"]You mean, greatest shooter.siLVURcross

[QUOTE="Heil68"]I gave other valid reasons and you must not of read them or are just plain ignoring them to suit your position. foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="Heil68"]I gave other valid reasons and you must not of read them or are just plain ignoring them to suit your position. foxhound_fox

Now this is purely subjective, you cant compare me2 with fallout, they are two differant games with differant goals.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Heil68"]I gave other valid reasons and you must not of read them or are just plain ignoring them to suit your position. Heil68

So you won't play a game heralded as an epic RPG because of some *cough* bugs *cough* (you've never played a Bethesda game have you?)

ME2 is an RPG in the same way 300 is a romance movie, sure, there is romance ... but you're kinda missing the bigger picture.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Heil68"]I gave other valid reasons and you must not of read them or are just plain ignoring them to suit your position. Heil68

RPGs are about forging your own adventures within the world. ME2 is nothing but a shooter with RPG constructs tacked on. It's fun, but it's not an RPG.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Heil68"]I gave other valid reasons and you must not of read them or are just plain ignoring them to suit your position. Heil68

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

[QUOTE="110million"]Yeah I remember reading some interviews and quotes about pre-release Oblivion, dynamic AI that would always be doing something different, you could walk through town and everyone would be discussing events and things going on, and it would always be different. What you have most often is people who stop next to each other, have the same voice actor, and discuss mudcrabs for a 4 or 5 sentences of dialog. :P

110million

I agree actually, I would not have changed it. Its just funny in a "What they said" and "What actually happened" sort of thing.

Anyways I think people are a little bit harsh on ME 2's choices seeing as the story doesn't complete until the next game and there are some differences in play throughs. Also paragon/renegade red/blue doesn't mean good and evil because if it did, then my sheppard is 100% evil and 50% good. ME 2 has a good balance of good/evil choice and gray choices. The Witcher is one that should be made fun of. Just because a game goes against what 95% of the developers do, doesn't mean it's anymore right. I don't live in a world surrounded by all gray choices.

However i do understand that the consequences of the choices often don't amount to much. whether i'm welcomed back into the spectres or not really didn't have much of a meaning in ME2. it may in ME3 but that's to be seen.

Nope, I don't think so, there are better RPGs and Suikoden is one of them.

as for the argument presented here, is Mass Effect 2 a RPG ?

I say yes, it's an RPG but not heavy on the W infront of it. It's more of a Jrpg.

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]"I play a role, so its a role-playing game." is not a valid reason Explain to me how Mass Effect 2 is a better role-playing game than New Vegas. And use examples.Firebird-5

RPGs are about forging your own adventures within the world. ME2 is nothing but a shooter with RPG constructs tacked on. It's fun, but it's not an RPG.

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

padaporra

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

GeneralShowzer

The Wrpg lite level!!!

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

Yes.
.
It pushed the RPG genere to a whole new level.

GeneralShowzer

The level where there are half walls to duck behind, instead of skilled gameplay or RPG elements.